Titan airways-2

[jonnyrobbo]

Happy New Year everyone. G-POWY is on her way to the UK.

[southside bobby]

First A321P2F for ops in the Northern Hemisphere & second only in the World...the first down under with QANTAS.

Reporting today says delivered but POWY still not featuring on GINFO as yet or on trackers.

Good economics & news for Titan with much larger uplift per a/c v the B734...Main deck & underbelly container enabled.

[SWBKCB]

Being delivered still as G-DHJH

[southside bobby]

Ahhh...Thanks for the info...more sense now.

[Buster the Bear]

Departed Lasham 19th December 2019 for conversion.

[southside bobby]

Titan`s first `P2F has entered service...Flew the STN/BFS/STN Covid service this morning...Wears AWC colours & the reg, G-DHJH...

[jonnyrobbo]

Is she now remaining as G-DHJH?

[southside bobby]

Reg,appears to be on a "sticker" so obviously can be removed quickly...

G-POWY is allocated for this a/c as already known...At least one tracker did in fact show the reg as `POWY on the service today...No show yet GINFO...

[El Bunto]

Star Air/UPS B763 service operating to and from EGAA on Titan codes, AWC6977/6978. Presumably Brexit arrangement for the internal sector from EGNX.

[mmeteesside]

The same arrangement applies with the 6565/6566 from/to Edinburgh too.

[southside bobby]

Titan`s next A321P2F the potential `POWZ has recently taken to the skies in Singapore ex conversion.

The first a/c the potential `POWY continues in service still registered as `DHJH.

[southside bobby]

`DHJH P2F & as such still the erstwhile `POWY departed STN Thursday on a short term wet lease for Amerijet at MIA to cover their own m/x & view the type`s performance.

[Buster the Bear]

Got to love Titan, take every opportunity they can to diversify.

[Cuillin Hills]

That is one way of looking at it.

[stansdead]

Meaning what exactly?

[southside bobby]

With a badly balanced Brexit arrangement in favour of EU airlines accessing flying contacts from/to UK far more quickly Titan & other UK operators do well at present to find new markets.

[Buster the Bear]

I am sure that avenue will be closed down rapidly from info I was told.

[southside bobby]

...that avenue to be closed down rapidly or not it appears that both Titan & Jota are set to take a different road & establish "bases" in Malta.

[Wycombe]

There was some news earlier in the week that a smaller aircraft would be leased (to replace the 32 Sqn 146's in the VIP role) so maybe this is it?

[southside bobby]

G-XATW ?...Left NWI for STN a couple of days ago in the dark after being present with Air Livery for 11 days.

[Albert Hall]

A search on the CAA aircraft register website confirms A321 G-XATW registered to Titan Airways.

[southside bobby]

Appears confirmed...

`XATW = Royal Air Force operated by Titan Airways.

The 321NX could hardly be described though as a Northolt/Royal Flight `146 replacement as it will be capable of flying most missions to be asked of the A330 though less capable perhaps of accommodating Governmental sized egos.

Titan Airways are working well to find replacement work around what was regarded normalcy until this time last year.

The erstwhile 2PF `POWZ is also due out on 6 month lease eventually to Amerijet in MIA as is the first 2PF.

[globetrotter79]

Could an A321 operate off Northolt’s main runway without significant restrictions?

[Musket90]

Probably not with TORA and LDA for both runways less than 1600m.

[southside bobby]

mmmmm...standby.

AWC`s 2nd A321NX as yet undelivered may now well wear the registration G-GBNI....wonder what those letters could represent for a flying contract?

[jethro15]

G-GBNI....wonder what those letters could represent for a flying contract?
Great Britain Northern Ireland?

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Great news. It's a basic requirement of modern govt and I note that France, Germany, Italy etc have small fleets of A320 series aircraft for govt missions. Only in Britain do people get upset over this.
As for NHT ops, well it's not carrying 200+ passengers and if it can't make it out with an exec load then LHR is literally just down the road. And if it's not actually flown by the RAF then LHR makes more sense.

[brian_dromey]

Most EU nations have the aircraft as national assets and operated by their Air Force, or Armed Forces. They don't have them operated on a wet-lease basis, which would arguably be better for the skillset of the Armed forces, rather than subbing everything out. But government procurement process favour low capital expenditure and these kind of PFI-type deals.

[ATNotts]

It is hard to see how utilising people already employed by the RAF and procuring a brace of aircraft for the role couldn't be cheaper than buying in the service from the private sector, perhaps someone in Titan is a donor to the Tory party. I can't see Titan being allowed to use a government liveried aircraft for ad hoc charters.

I have absolutely no problem with the government having a fleet of aircraft at its disposal for government business, but the UK must be quite unusual in using civilian carriers for the task.

[SWBKCB]

It is G-XATW which has been painted

https://www.flickr.com/photos/155986601@N02/51058773286/

[22/04]

Isn't Air Tanker a private company providing a much larger military role?

[southside bobby]

...& a pic of the erstwhile `GBNI on the Finkenwerder website all white & under power ready for its first flight a few days ago...this website also claims it as destined for the Royal Air Force & will operated by Titan Airways.
Interesting when the official announcement will be...perhaps in the finer print of the Defence Review this pm.

[ATNotts]

Same applies. Can the UK MoD and the armed forces under it's umbrella really be so inefficient that it can't compete with commercial businesses that, after all, have to turn a profit, something which no government department ever has to do.

[El Bunto]

Skipness One Foxtrot

I think much of the 'upset' is how uk.gov goes about this. Instead of buying the aircraft outright and operating them in-house, they contract to a private company who needs to make a profit and who in turn is leasing from ALC who needs to make a profit. And of course when they go for mx the maintenance provider needs to make their profit. So we're paying extra as tax-payers to make sure that everyone else down the stack gets their margin.

I've no issue about the Government using a small fleet of suitable aircraft for special missions, but there's no consideration of commonality with the RAF fleet ( e.g. BBJ - Poseidon - Wedgetail ) nor any interest in maintaining the institutional skills built through 60 years of RAF transport provision.

[LGS6753]

ATNotts

....and it's precisely for that reason that the private sector is more efficient. Cost saving is in the DNA, whereas public sector organisations "have to" spend their grant by March 31st, or it will be cut next year. Also, public sector employees have notoriously low productivity, and enjoy very expensive perks that the private sector just can't afford. What's more, profit levels are usually over-estimated by those who don't understand the private sector, and see every penny of profit as greed.

[ATNotts]

I agree about the ability of the public sector to spend (other peoples) money - the annual council tax rip-off has just hit the mat, with an extra 6.3% allocated to Mr. Invisible (the Police and Crime Commissioner)!:sad:

I don't believe people object to the private sector making a profit, but I do understand that peoples perception of profits can often be wide of the mark. I have worked for a business where a mark up, as opposed to margin, was 10%, and another where the minimum required mark up was 43%. One provided a service, the other a manufacturer and distributor.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

El Bunto

I think one of the reasons is that the MOD is wholly incapable of buying anything off the shelf and notoriously financially incontinent. Everything has to come with the maximum bells and whistles and bespoke to the highest level. Look at the fiascos of Nimrod AEW3, Nimord 2000, even TriStars converted rather than buy the KC10 off the shelf or even three different versions of VC10 tankers. Then you have the A330 where the aircraft is the right one but the PFI funding is insane. Sometimes all you need is a leased A321 outside of all that madness?

[southside bobby]

A plagiarized item on Boris One & Two has now appeared online in a national newspaper & not really extolling the virtues certainly on cost.

[V12]

Skipness One Foxtrot

Yes IIRC that PFI contract guaranteed thousands of hours/year MORE than the Govt required in the original spec, at an av hourly rate which was around 10x the open market rate on a standard A330. Yes there were hose conversions to do, but 10x multiple and guaranteed excessive hours for about two decades is what PFIs are all about. Titan will look SO cost-effective by comparison. And they know what they are doing and are almost an institution in British Aviation.

[ExpectmorePayless]

Surprised the RAF didn't contract the A318 rather than the A321neo if they were seeking a replacement for the Bae146 of the Queens Flight.
Probably could have secured the ex BA sistership now it too has been withdrawn from LCY JFK services.
What exactly are these A321neo going to be used for? Surely they are too big for occasional overseas visits by the PM and Foreign Secretary.

[Buster the Bear]

Well they are also replacing 2x cargo 146s, so the belly holds probably.

[BA318]

Often the Gov sells seats on board the flights to media and press who accompany the VIPs on their trip. I doubt it makes much but does bring in something probably. An A321 with VIP forward cabin and then rear economy seating could hold as few as 100 pax like AA’s. That wouldn’t really be too big.

[Beatts]

Interesting to note lack of any defensive aids as well, guessing this will in turn affect where this one will be flying and who it will be transporting when comparing to the Voyager and Bae146.

[Downwind_Left]

The UK Royals have for a long time done a lot of flying on commercial corporate jets... more than they do on RAF aircraft in recent years. And have tended to use chartered BA aircraft for extended or long-range official overseas tours. Defensive aids are not really a requirement unless the Government/Royals need to go into a hostile zone.

[Dorking]

If lightly loaded, might it even make into and out of Gibraltar?..

[Gulfstreamaviator]

WELCOME TO GIB. . come and see The ROCK. We need slights, and flights......GSA.

[southside bobby]

Titan second A321NX `GBNI officially registered 31.3.21 & delivered from the Hamburg factory to STN yesterday afternoon.
Being a possible candidate for "United Kingdom" livery it still has it`s all white paint work as when test flying.

[southside bobby]

...and it appears another Titan delivery in as the 2nd P2F `NIKO is due STN this afternoon from the East.

[El Bunto]

First revenue service was to EGAA this morning as AWC7B, picking up more COVID testing kits

[garry8g]

G-NIKO departed STN this morning, on route for it's short term wet lease for Amerijet at MIA. Going to join G-DHJH for a while.

[chuzwuza]

NIKO and DHJH have been a pair of old dogs since back in their myt days. I hope somebody sorted them out since then.

[southside bobby]

Maybe the poster will happier with the NX`s then both 2020 models!

One of the reasons for the Amerijet lease arrangement is for AJI to evaluate & gain P2F operating experience & no doubt all will have been factored in for a six month operation 3000 miles from base.

The 2nd NX `GBNI ear marked for "United Kingdom" /RAF ops departed STN yesterday still all white to BOD...paint/tinkering or store?

[southside bobby]

In a further fleet movement the sole `318 has departed STN for the last time today en-route St Athan for breaking.

[El Bunto]

Ah I get it now, ICAO code AWC: Winter & Coxon on G-ZAPE

[Tranceaddict]

I always thought it stood for Air World Charter, but I may be wrong

[pennypitstop22]

Not so, gents.

See https://www.pprune.org/9988990-post158.html

[Expressflight]

Indeed in memory of Alan Chapman, still a much missed friend.

[pennypitstop22]

Indeed. It was always a pleasure to meet and talk with Alan.

[N707ZS]

I couldn't find any other comments on this incident.

A321 engine failure caused by fuel contamination (aerotime.aero) (https://www.aerotime.aero/27860-mayday-incident-in-gatwick-engine-stall-report)

[long final]

Saw Titan has a 7700 in to STN today. Guess would be something to do with pressurisation. Any idea's?

[OpsSix]

Twas indeed a pressurisation issue.

[Expressflight]

The same thing happened while it was operating SEN-LEJ four days ago and LEJ-SEN two days ago, so it's obviously a difficult defect to rectify.

[garry8g]

According to Jethro's, an A330-343 P2F freight aircraft is due to join the fleet, ex Air Asia 9M-XBD.

A sizeable change from the B734's.

[mikkie4]

Is the A330 to big for SENs runway?

[Mr @ Spotty M]

mikkie4
What has SEN got to do with Titan and a A330?

[harriewillem]

garry8g

Size wise yes, but in current market conditions they have a great financial deal, most likely a long term PBH deal... still need to sell the extra space / kgs but sure they did their homework..

[22/04]

To answer the question earlier - yes- SEN is restricted with respect to widebodies due I think to runway width.

[N707ZS]

Did the 707s from the past operate cargo flights or were they just maintenance and storage. I remember visiting in the 80s/90s as the numbers increased.

[G-APDK]

G-EODS A330 delivered last night arrived from Ostend at 22:53, in GEODIS (a French freight company) markings

[rog747]

22/04

Yes, a Tristar once flew into SEN but it never left.... Was an old Aer Turas/TBG charter aircraft iirc...

[Wycombe]

Noticed on FR24 just now that the UK Govt 321Neo (G-XATW) is about to arrive in SYD (looks to have routed via DWC and KUL).

Edit: in fact landed at RAAF Richmond

"Taxi" for the England cricketers perhaps?

[cavokblues]

Carrying Liz Truss perhaps?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-and-defence-secretaries-visit-australia-for-aukmin

[Wycombe]

Carrying Liz Truss perhaps?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-and-defence-secretaries-visit-australia-for-aukmin

Thanks, seems more likely, still a long slog for a 321 (even if it's a "long range" one). Assume the 330 is needed back in blightly for op reasons.

[N707ZS]

Hope the Covid passports are in hand.

[jonnyrobbo]

Just noticed G-POWP has / is moving onto pastures new with Northern Air Cargo in the states as N407YK. Was a good servant to Titan on the Belfast Royal Mail runs!

[Alex321]

Does anybody know what the plans are for the A320/321/321NEO & 757 fleets this summer?

[garry8g]

Does anybody know what the plans are for the A320/321/321NEO & 757 fleets this summer?

2 A321's are being leased to Jet2 for Summer 22, based at STN.

[Rivet Joint]

Any idea what’s going on with the Neos? The second one has recently been painted in the government scheme but the first one which already had the scheme is now in the paint shop. Seems an awful waste of money if they are just going to swap them over.

[STN406]

Any idea what’s going on with the Neos? The second one has recently been painted in the government scheme but the first one which already had the scheme is now in the paint shop. Seems an awful waste of money if they are just going to swap them over.

G-XATW returned to Stansted early hours of the morning and has been painted in a all black colour scheme. Have heard she will be leased out to TCS World travel for their worldwide holiday packages.
G-GBNI as has been stated is now in full UK government colours.

[Rivet Joint]

G-XATW returned to Stansted early hours of the morning and has been painted in a all black colour scheme. Have heard she will be leased out to TCS World travel for their worldwide holiday packages.
G-GBNI as has been stated is now in full UK government colours.

Why didn’t they use G-GBNI which was all white for TCS World? Pretty insane to paint over the UK scheme on G-XATW to then paint G-GBNI into the scheme instead. What a total waste of money! I seriously hope the tax payer hasn’t had to pay for this stupidity. They were both meant to be on lease to the Government so not sure what’s happened to that either.

[jonnyrobbo]

Looking at flight radar today, POWW was operating a flight to Bologna but turned back over Belgium/Netherlands and POWN operated a flight later in the day. Did something happen?

[jmdavies86]

What a total waste of money! I seriously hope the tax payer hasn’t had to pay for this stupidity.

I absolutely agree about it being a total waste of money, however it doesn't surprise me at all to see these kind of things happening given the crazy sums of money that have been spent/squandered over the past couple of years. Unfortunately, it will be us who have to foot the bill as that's how the Government gets it's income - via the taxpayer!

[Wycombe]

Why didn’t they use G-GBNI which was all white for TCS World? Pretty insane to paint over the UK scheme on G-XATW to then paint G-GBNI into the scheme instead.

I've read elsewhere that it's all decals on these 2 321's (the UK Govt colour-schemes anyway). The Reg of GBNI suggests to me that that was always intended to be the Govt aircraft?

[chaps1954]

It does sound if an aircraft was needed at short notice and I would agree stencils would be best

[planedrive]

Completely correct. They're exactly the same standard, but XATW was used as the gov needed it sooner than GBNI was ready. The reg's are GBNI (Great Britain and Northern Ireland) and XATW (Around The World) for TCS and have always been planned as such. No extra money has been 'coughed up by the taxpayer' for the decal swap.

[Buster the Bear]

Completely correct. They're exactly the same standard, but XATW was used as the gov needed it sooner than GBNI was ready. The reg's are GBNI (Great Britain and Northern Ireland) and XATW (Around The World) for TCS and have always been planned as such. No extra money has been 'coughed up by the taxpayer' for the decal swap.

That'll not be pleasant reading for the lurking Remoners :)

[pilotmike]

Looking at flight radar today, POWW was operating a flight to Bologna but turned back over Belgium/Netherlands and POWN operated a flight later in the day. Did something happen?
Yes.

POWW was operating a flight to Bologna but turned back over Belgium/Netherlands and POWN operated a flight later in the day.

[davidjohnson6]

There has been various discussion about which leisure airline will be leasing which of Titan's various aircraft during summer 2022
I note that Titan UK has a Maltese subsidiary, which includes an A321, 9H-ZTA, that seems to have been sitting on the ground in Singapore for the last 6 months. I think Titan Malta took control of the aircraft in August 2021 ago. I can understand that since the end of October 2021, there might not have been a lot of ACMI demand for the likes of Titan, but I'm puzzled why an airline based in UK/Europe would choose to store a single aircraft in Singapore, far from the home of Titan's likely customer base, and what is intended for the aircraft during the next 6 months. Titan Malta's A321 freighter, 9H-ZTB has been rather busy recently in comparison. Is 9H-ZTA destined to brought back from exile to fly northern Europeans to the beach ?

[mmeteesside]

I imagine it’s probably either in conversion or waiting for a slot to go in to be a freighter

[SWBKCB]

I imagine it’s probably either in conversion or waiting for a slot to go in to be a freighter

Yes - there for freighter conversion

[jonnyrobbo]

Yes.

POWW was operating a flight to Bologna but turned back over Belgium/Netherlands and POWN operated a flight later in the day.
Do you know the reason why she turned back?

[jonnyrobbo]

There has been various discussion about which leisure airline will be leasing which of Titan's various aircraft during summer 2022
I note that Titan UK has a Maltese subsidiary, which includes an A321, 9H-ZTA, that seems to have been sitting on the ground in Singapore for the last 6 months. I think Titan Malta took control of the aircraft in August 2021 ago. I can understand that since the end of October 2021, there might not have been a lot of ACMI demand for the likes of Titan, but I'm puzzled why an airline based in UK/Europe would choose to store a single aircraft in Singapore, far from the home of Titan's likely customer base, and what is intended for the aircraft during the next 6 months. Titan Malta's A321 freighter, 9H-ZTB has been rather busy recently in comparison. Is 9H-ZTA destined to brought back from exile to fly northern Europeans to the beach ?
There for freighter conversion

[Buster the Bear]

Both 757s going to BA at Gatwick for the summer.

[irishlad06]

Both 757s going to BA at Gatwick for the summer.

think this might change - seen other confirmation that one staying at STN to operate for someone else with Titan crew from end of May

[Rutan16]

Completely correct. They're exactly the same standard, but XATW was used as the gov needed it sooner than GBNI was ready. The reg's are GBNI (Great Britain and Northern Ireland) and XATW (Around The World) for TCS and have always been planned as such. No extra money has been 'coughed up by the taxpayer' for the decal swap.

can you provide detailed evidence of that because someone will HAVE been charged and certainly NOT Titan as a business !!!!!!

[SWBKCB]

certainly NOT Titan as a business !!!!!!

can you provide detailed evidence of that?

[Rutan16]

can you provide detailed evidence of that?

I have no evidence either way however my business sense leads me to believe there is an invoice somewhere !

Other than a donation scenario and that’s corruption 101 !

I have no objection in principle to a state transport aircraft indeed I would support a fully funded aircraft with secure comms paid for and OWNED by the state . Properly tendered for with accountability and sustainability targets through the correct procurement processes !

You know the one Blair suggested and was roundly vilified for by the Tory press .

These aircraft smell ( metaphorically) somewhat just an opinion.

The F900s may be better value through

[davidjohnson6]

UK Govt puts out a request for a wet leased aircraft with a stipulation it must have a Union jack design. UK airlines submit bids at a higher price than for a normal wet lease. UK Govt then chooses lowest of submitted bids. Officially no donation involved... Titan just recoups the cost of a repaint through a higher lease payment over next couple of years. Where is the case for PC Plod ?

[Rutan16]

can you provide detailed evidence of that?

I have no evidence either way however my business sense leads me to believe there is an invoice somewhere !

Other than a donation scenario and that’s corruption 101 !

I have no objection in principle to a state transport aircraft indeed I would support a fully funded aircraft with secure comms paid for and OWNED by the state . Properly tendered for with accountability and sustainability targets through the correct procurement processes !

You know the one Blair suggested and was roundly vilified by the Tory press .

These aircraft smell ( metaphorically) somewhat just an opinion.

The F900s may be better value through

[SWBKCB]

Yes - I would expect that bids have been requested to fill a requirement. It would be up to Titan to decide how to fulfil it, and if the best way involves two a/c getting painted (or 'whatever'), that would be down to them. You seem to think otherwise?

[Rutan16]

UK Govt puts out a request for a wet leased aircraft with a stipulation it must have a Union jack design. UK airlines submit bids at a higher price than for a normal wet lease. UK Govt then chooses lowest of submitted bids. Officially no donation involved... Titan just recoups the cost of a repaint through a higher lease payment over next couple of years. Where is the case for PC Plod ?

Nail on head answer clear confirmation TAXPAYER paid !

As a qualified QS well aware of how things work with hidden in costs to customers !

We aren’t on differing hymn pages on this however I think SWBKCB is a little unusual for them being naive !

As a customer HMG /Treasury are generally excellent at paying bills on time !

[Rutan16]

There should be a record of the tender request available on OJEU somewhere through I am in Nantes for few days and only have my iPad with me .

I will seek to find it at some point . The one for the Falcons certainly is up there 👆

And again I am not one whom thinks UK shouldn’t have a state transport

BTW the owners of Titan are Tory donators coincidence maybe 🤔

True to say right now there aren’t too many that could meet the tender requirements anyway and that without sight of the specifications.

Public tenders are regularly written is such a way to be just short of naming a supplier and that’s without weighting; more than half of tenders have 50 to 75% quality weighting and the balance being simple price before the award(s)
Frameworks awards can be 6 of more contractors!

The 75% quality is largely subjective and as much as 25% of that can be sustainability (code bribes- what are you going to do for the community and by how much are you going to donate to good causes !)

I write this crap every working day on fire safety government awards !

[LBAflyer22]

think this might change - seen other confirmation that one staying at STN to operate for someone else with Titan crew from end of May

Do TUI have a base at STN? If so could it be them?

If it's not TUI then I'm probably 90% certain it'll be Jet2. Unless it's an exclusive tour operator and titan are providing the flying for them.

[Rivet Joint]

There should be a record of the tender request available on OJEU somewhere through I am in Nantes for few days and only have my iPad with me .

I will seek to find it at some point . The one for the Falcons certainly is up there 👆

And again I am not one whom thinks UK shouldn’t have a state transport

BTW the owners of Titan are Tory donators coincidence maybe 🤔

True to say right now there aren’t too many that could meet the tender requirements anyway and that without sight of the specifications.

Public tenders are regularly written is such a way to be just short of naming a supplier and that’s without weighting; more than half of tenders have 50 to 75% quality weighting and the balance being simple price before the award(s)
Frameworks awards can be 6 of more contractors!

The 75% quality is largely subjective and as much as 25% of that can be sustainability (code bribes- what are you going to do for the community and by how much are you going to donate to good causes !)

I write this crap every working day on fire safety government awards !

Never understood why people don’t think the government should have VIP transport. You think they can just find a flight to a destination on normal passenger airlines? What about all the security concerns and costs for traveling on normal flights? You think we are some third world country and reputation doesn’t matter when going to a country to do business? Germany have 3 x A350s and 2 x A321Ns on the way. We borrow one A321N from an airline. If anything it’s embarrassing as it is.

The 2 F900s are also an odd choice. It’s a model from the 80s! Laughable that it’s chosen to replace 80s era jets that were at least built here! Could they have not chosen A220s which at least have their wings built in the UK or a more modern Bombardier business jet from Canada?

[Rutan16]

Never understood why people don’t think the government should have VIP transport. You think they can just find a flight to a destination on normal passenger airlines? What about all the security concerns and costs for traveling on normal flights? You think we are some third world country and reputation doesn’t matter when going to a country to do business? Germany have 3 x A350s and 2 x A321Ns on the way. We borrow one A321N from an airline. If anything it’s embarrassing as it is.

The 2 F900s are also an odd choice. It’s a model from the 80s! Laughable that it’s chosen to replace 80s era jets that were at least built here! Could they have not chosen A220s which at least have their wings built in the UK or a more modern Bombardier business jet from Canada?
Again your haven’t read what I wrote !
I fully support a state owned and operated fleet of VIP transport with secure comms and defensive capabilities to promote the UK .
I said I support the F900 purchase however yes would have been better to get Bombardier with NI build input !
I don’t support this arrangement emboldening a Tory donors bank account !!!!

[Downwind_Left]

The 2 F900s are also an odd choice. It’s a model from the 80s! Laughable that it’s chosen to replace 80s era jets that were at least built here! Could they have not chosen A220s which at least have their wings built in the UK or a more modern Bombardier business jet from Canada?

Most of the Government/Royal flights for at least the last 10 years have been out to tender on the UK charter market.

The Queen and Senior Royals have hardly been flying with the RAF for long time. They were chartering bizjets. The F900s aren’t replacing the 146…as that hasn’t been the 146’s primary use for many years.

And the F900s aren’t new either. Value for money. For groups of 10-15 people the brand-new A220 is hardly sensible, economical or value for money.

[Downwind_Left]

Again your haven’t read what I wrote !
I fully support a state owned and operated fleet of VIP transport with secure comms and defensive capabilities to promote the UK .
I said I support the F900 purchase however yes would have been better to get Bombardier with NI build input !
I don’t support this arrangement emboldening a Tory donors bank account !!!!

If it’s a second hand aircraft does it matter where the wings were made? And also with the mission profile… maybe they just chose the most suitable aircraft. Northolt is a very constrained airfield, the Global is a good performer, but the F900 is smaller and has 3 engines. The extra engine can be critical in certain performance calculations.

What arrangement are you claiming supports someone’s bank account? You sound like a conspiracy theorist to me.

If you’re referring to the A231neo, I don’t believe that the aircraft are owned by Titan. I understand they are owned, or at least leased from their actual owners by TCS Expeditions/Four Seasons. Titan are merely the ACMI operator of these aircraft.

The first, G-XATW, arrived painted all black in preparation to fly for its intended purpose at the height of the pandemic in late 2020. It sat idle for months, and then in early 2021 was repainted into the United Kingdom scheme.

The second was due to be G-OATW, but when it arrived in March 2021 it was painted all white and registered G-GBNI. And then placed into storage until the end of the year.

It’s pretty clear that both aircraft were surplus to requirements of their tour operator owners, who are not Titan, at the time of delivery. And that a deal was done with the UK to take over responsibility for the second aircraft. But that there was a mutually beneficial need to use the first aircraft in the interim period.

It’s actually far more likely that the original owner paid for the repaint, to facilitate the UK Government’s time line, than risk having to pay lease/mortgage payments on 2 very expensive brand new A321neos in middle of a pandemic when their revenue earning potential was zero.

The cost of a repaint, weighed against several hundred thousand dollars in monthly lease/mortgage costs for each aircraft unable to earn revenue would be more than repaid immediately by finding alternative employment. So the original owner will have most likely been happy to cover the incidental cost of swapping paint jobs.

For reference; the latest published figures puts the monthly lease cost of an A321neo as US$240,000-360,000. Since both aircraft were delivered in all one colour paint, the respray plus decals will be significantly under half the monthly lease cost.

[SWBKCB]

Downwind - take your conspiracy ruining facts and logic elsewhere, sir! :ok:

[Rutan16]

If it’s a second hand aircraft does it matter where the wings were made? And also with the mission profile… maybe they just chose the most suitable aircraft. Northolt is a very constrained airfield, the Global is a good performer, but the F900 is smaller and has 3 engines. The extra engine can be critical in certain performance calculations.

What arrangement are you claiming supports someone’s bank account? You sound like a conspiracy theorist to me.

If you’re referring to the A231neo, I don’t believe that the aircraft are owned by Titan. I understand they are owned, or at least leased from their actual owners by TCS Expeditions/Four Seasons. Titan are merely the ACMI operator of these aircraft.

The first, G-XATW, arrived painted all black in preparation to fly for its intended purpose at the height of the pandemic in late 2020. It sat idle for months, and then in early 2021 was repainted into the United Kingdom scheme.

The second was due to be G-OATW, but when it arrived in March 2021 it was painted all white and registered G-GBNI. And then placed into storage until the end of the year.

It’s pretty clear that both aircraft were surplus to requirements of their tour operator owners, who are not Titan, at the time of delivery. And that a deal was done with the UK to take over responsibility for the second aircraft. But that there was a mutually beneficial need to use the first aircraft in the interim period.

It’s actually far more likely that the original owner paid for the repaint, to facilitate the UK Government’s time line, than risk having to pay lease/mortgage payments on 2 very expensive brand new A321neos in middle of a pandemic when their revenue earning potential was zero.

The cost of a repaint, weighed against several hundred thousand dollars in monthly lease/mortgage costs for each aircraft unable to earn revenue would be more than repaid immediately by finding alternative employment. So the original owner will have most likely been happy to cover the incidental cost of swapping paint jobs.

For reference; the latest published figures puts the monthly lease cost of an A321neo as US$240,000-360,000. Since both aircraft were delivered in all one colour paint, the respray plus decals will be significantly under half the monthly lease cost.
Still a cost and as for ownership the CAA STATE
TITAN AIRWAYS LTD
ENTERPRISE HOUSE, BASSINGBOURN ROAD
LONDON STANSTED AIRPORT
STANSTED
CM24
Zilch nine nada to do with the tour operator !
Again just for clarity I have No objections to a UK state transport fleet !
What really does concern me most of all is the lack of scrutiny from the media traditionally and loudly opposed to this and going back through several leaders of both main political parties !
Oh and as a pretty measure that appalling gold font !

[Buster the Bear]

Dassault won the contest on swift delivery and cost. As for stickers being applied to an Airbus, then another and it costing the tax payer a fortune, reading this thread is hilarious! I remember a 757 arriving an airfield in England and having all kinds of very large decals added for a world tour by a Portuguese football team. They were then removed after that short term lease. Quick repaints and the rapid livery changes via decals are common place.

[Rutan16]

Dassault won the contest on swift delivery and cost. As for stickers being applied to an Airbus, then another and it costing the tax payer a fortune, reading this thread is hilarious! I remember a 757 arriving an airfield in England and having all kinds of very large decals added for a world tour by a Portuguese football team. They were then removed after that short term lease. Quick repaints and the rapid livery changes via decals are common place.

Whilst there is some humorous elements sure . When the voyager bill was 900k on a tax payer vehicle That created some negative press !

[Expressflight]

Still a cost and as for ownership the CAA STATE
TITAN AIRWAYS LTD
ENTERPRISE HOUSE, BASSINGBOURN ROAD
LONDON STANSTED AIRPORT
STANSTED
CM24
Zilch nine nada to do with the tour operator !
Again just for clarity I have No objections to a UK state transport fleet !
What really does concern me most of all is the lack of scrutiny from the media traditionally and loudly opposed to this and going back through several leaders of both main political parties !
Oh and as a pretty measure that appalling gold font !

When my company 'owned' aircraft, by which I mean we bought them outright with our own funds - surely the truest meaning of 'owned' - the CAA registry showed them as 'Owned' in the Ownership Status section on the G-INFO website. If you look there at the two Titan A321's registry details you will see that it says 'Chartered' in the Ownership Status section. How do you account for that?

[SWBKCB]

Whilst there is some humorous elements sure . When the voyager bill was 900k on a tax payer vehicle That created some negative press !

And how much of it was accurate, and how much of it was ill informed speculation?

[Dannyboy39]

When my company 'owned' aircraft, by which I mean we bought them outright with our own funds - surely the truest meaning of 'owned' - the CAA registry showed them as 'Owned' in the Ownership Status section on the G-INFO website. If you look there at the two Titan A321's registry details you will see that it says 'Chartered' in the Ownership Status section. How do you account for that?
For practical reasons, if an aircraft is leased or owned by someone else, it’ll still show the operators name on G-INFO.

[chaps1954]

Didn`t that include maintenance as well

[Beatts]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/681x81/tn_4048550806cdb58aeaed137bca9fa145131a0d3e.png
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/684x42/tn2_e20cc18f858695cbe7909f5b22c0210f17adf6eb.png

[Rutan16]

And how much of it was accurate, and how much of it was ill informed speculation?

How many times do I HAVE TO SAY I don’t object to STATE OWNED VIP transport !!!
Just these curiously obscure contracts with a Tory donor and aircraft that don’t meet the criterion.
I’d sooner spend Vastly more on the correct bit of kit !
Point to me another country/state where the prime transport of the state aren’t owned and operated by the state . Its just laughable.
France , Germany , Italy, Korea, Japan even little Eire can I go on .
These aircraft are a vanity project by the Conservative Party and they should pay the bills

[Rutan16]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/681x81/tn_4048550806cdb58aeaed137bca9fa145131a0d3e.png
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/684x42/tn2_e20cc18f858695cbe7909f5b22c0210f17adf6eb.png

Absolutely they are operated and contractually leased by Titan again nothing to do with that Tour Group whom are a customer of Titan . That post up stream was pure drivel .

[Rutan16]

For practical reasons, if an aircraft is leased or owned by someone else, it’ll still show the operators name on G-INFO.
Correct through their IS A mystery with G- GBNI ITS SAYS CHARTERED yet left blank !
Suggesting something fishy about the final charterer ( yes it’s the government we know)

[SWBKCB]

Correct through their IS A mystery with G- GBNI ITS SAYS CHARTERED yet left blank !
Suggesting something fishy about the final charterer ( yes it’s the government we know)

No - the Titan a/c are leased/'chartered' from Air Lease Corporation (much as a/c operated by BA and EZY are) who are the owners.

[Albert Hall]

Maybe just me, but how on earth do you spend £900k on a paint job? A typical Airbus paint job is around £80-120k and this isn't a particularly complicated or unusual paint scheme. I'm actually more interested in whether they have spent £900k which I find incredibly hard to believe - even for Government!

[SWBKCB]

Maybe just me, but how on earth do you spend £900k on a paint job? A typical Airbus paint job is around £80-120k and this isn't a particularly complicated or unusual paint scheme. I'm actually more interested in whether they have spent £900k which I find incredibly hard to believe - even for Government!

They didn't - that's the clickbait headline. The paint job was part of a package of work which came to £900k.

[Buster the Bear]

In the same way that the Falcon 900s will undergo 'militaryisation'.

[Alex321]

Current passenger fleet utilisation

A320's -

G-POWK - LGW based operating for TUI
G-POWM - LGW based operating for TUI

A321's

G-POWN - STN based operating for Jet2
G-POWU - STN based operating for Jet2
G-POWW - Ad hock Titan work

(A321 NEOS not included as both are used for specific duties)

B757'S

G-POWH - Ad hock Titan work
G-ZAPX - Operating out of LGW for BA until 4/5, operating for TUI out of LGW/BHX Since

[Buster the Bear]

https://aviationsourcenews.com/news/virgin-atlantic-to-wet-lease-titan-airways-airbus-a321p2f/

[garry8g]

Titan have a third A321-251NX (G-POWT) due, ex Arkia - Israeli Airlines (4X-AGN), only 3.5 years old. No delivery date yet.

[Buster the Bear]

Titan have a third A321-251NX (G-POWT) due, ex Arkia - Israeli Airlines (4X-AGN), only 3.5 years old. No delivery date yet.

VP-BTP stored Tucson.

[Garstag]

G-POWT is making its way to STN

[Garstag]

G-POWW has arrived at Singapore Seletar for fright conversion

[BA318]

CEO Alistair Wilson has left Titan.

Not sure it was his choice judging by the language and some comments. Anyone know why?

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/alastair-willson-74862613_i-was-incredibly-sad-to-leave-titan-airways-activity-7021550628862640128-Y7IZ

[AirLCY]

CEO Alistair Wilson has left Titan.

Not sure it was his choice judging by the language and some comments. Anyone know why?

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/alastair-willson-74862613_i-was-incredibly-sad-to-leave-titan-airways-activity-7021550628862640128-Y7IZ

Interesting since his Dad owns the company

[Job Knockey]

One person doesn’t make a company.

There’s plenty of talent already here to continue the success story.

[BA318]

One person doesn’t make a company.

There’s plenty of talent already here to continue the success story.

I don’t think anyone was saying that was what was going to happen. It was more a question of why he is leaving at short notice?

[jonnyrobbo]

G-POWH has been registered to 2Excel as G-FTAI

[Buster the Bear]

G-POWH/G-FTAI landed at Lasham earlier this week on delivery.

[N707ZS]

G-FTAI would that be Future Tempest ? ? an acronym of the registration.

[Kiltrash]

It appears Titan Airways is currently flying the mega rich in G-POWT in cattle class Manchester to Istanbul....
It's listed as Y220 Seating...having just come from a rotation to from Newquay for easyJet Question is would it be feasible or possible in a couple of days to change the seating profile to more the players would be used to??

[N707ZS]

Would guess, unbolt, remove, reinstall and weigh the aircraft.

[pabely]

It appears Titan Airways is currently flying the mega rich in G-POWT in cattle class Manchester to Istanbul....
It's listed as Y220 Seating...having just come from a rotation to from Newquay for easyJet Question is would it be feasible or possible in a couple of days to change the seating profile to more the players would be used to??
Why would they reconfigure the seating?
Titan, 2Excel & Eastern regularly fly football teams around on Saturdays, Sunday's and midweek.

[SWBKCB]

Istanbuls a bit further and this is a Champions League Final.

Put it this way - three drivers have relayed the team bus across Europe for the final. Why wouldn't you re-configure the a/c if that 0.00001% made a difference??

[G-AZUK]

The aircraft was on the ground STN from 4-8 June which is more than enough time for an internal reconfig.
The cost to the club for doing that will be about the same as one days wages for Jack Grealish, but the marginal gains could equate to millions if they win.