RAF Reserve Pilot Info?

[Broken Wings]

Can anyone point me to some online info for RAF Reserve Pilot (requirements/terms etc)? Have done a search on a couple of engines with no joy.

[TicketyBoo]

It's part of the Royal Auxiliary Air Force, go to www.rauxaf.mod.uk and follow the links for reserve aircrew.

There's also the Air Cadet AEF organisation which flies air cadets around, but I've got a feeling these chaps don't get paid, so it may be of limited interest to you at the moment...

[Wholigan]

The AEF guys don't get paid as such. They get home to duty travel allowance, plus a daily (small) subsistence allowance. They do - however - get paid a daily rate of pay during Easter and Summer camp periods up to a maximum of (about) 30 days per year.

[canberra]

as far as im aware you can only join rauxaf/raf reserves as a pilot if you are an ex service pilot.

[Wholigan]

canberra, this is also true. You have to have held military wings. There is one, and one only, serving exception to this.

[Broken Wings]

Thanks for the info chaps. And yes I had military wings even though they got slightly broken but now they're fixed enough to go flying again.
sangiovese. Not sure what FTRS means but yes it is the heavy route I want to have a look at.

[Wycombe]

BW

FTRS = Full-time Reserve Service

Sounds like a contradiction in terms, but:

You're a member of RAuxAF, work full-time, get paid full-time (virtually the same as regular Rank/TG structure), and get leave entitlement, AFAIK.

What I'm not so sure about are pension arrangements etc (I was a part-time Reservist, so never looked that deeply into it). Also, not sure about Flying Pay etc. for RAuxAF aircrew (I wasn't).

Well, at least you know what FTRS is now!!

[1 of many]

I was and the flying pay is about the same. If you do the requisite 30 or so days a year in the correct order, you also get a tax-free bounty of about £1300.

[Wycombe]

1,

Oops, how could I forget about Bounty...I used to get it aswell (and used my last one this year to pay for some flying :) ).

Some miscreants at my former Sqn actually had green "Bounty Hunter" T-shirts made up a few years back :D

[TicketyBoo]

Wholigan,

I'm consumed by curiosity - who is the one, and one only, exception?

And how did he get excepted?

[Golford]

We RAFVR(T)s in current flying practise up North are a dying breed 'cos we have gone from 5 days a week ops, to Sundays only (in those months when the RAF is actually open, which ain't often). All the ex-mil civvy boys (and now me it seems) have given up in desperation as the only folk who can meet the criteria of 50 hours a year in the few days available are those who are able to guarantee every Sunday free, have no home life and are in recepit of a DHSS pension with free teeth.

I get the feeling that the AEF is not long for this world. Certainly the RAFVR can't get enough adults to run the Flights due to fear of being accused of sexual and/or physical harrassment due the climate of political correctness. Cranwell don't give a toss either as VR stuff is a backwater for the high flyer.

Give the full time auxiliaries a go if you have RAF wings, otherwise I suggest you forget it. They tried taking in civvies as QFIs a few years ago and only one guy made it ( Name and address supplied - I suspect the aforementioned exception ) . Incidentally for this new breed of officer (one only as it transpired...still serving) they produced 1000 new wings badges with VR in the middle instead of RAF.....needless to say there are 999 copies still in stores (but you can't have one as they maybe needed)...True!

If you want a fulfilling RAFVR career I suggest you hang slack until the local Flying Club takes over the role or they start using microlights (which was a serious option for a minute or two).

Gordon Bennett lives!

[Wholigan]

Hey Golford, how come you only have one day a week operating now? Other AEFs are still 5 days and no sign of any change to that! Not only will the pilots not achieve required hours, the unit won't achieve its task. Seems most odd!

And TicketyBoo, yes the aforementioned exception does serve a long way north as suggested by Golford. The "system" changed its requirements some long time ago, and then reverted to requiring military wings. I'm sorry but I don't know the full story of the whys and wherefores. It works well for the one exception and I have no idea why it reverted. Me FNG at this game! :D

[Golford]

Two reasons why only one day a week:

1. Boss is a civvy and the UAS's won't let him play with the full train set during the week. He hasn't really got enough clout to fight his corner and he's a decent bloke so doesn't make waves.

2. He does all the week day flying there is himself. Sunday flying and Camp flying is given out in an interesting way too...precedence is given to those who turn up every weekend, because they've earned it I suppose. Those of us screaming out for hours have to wait our turn until all the high hours members, visiting regulars etc. have had their fill.

Cranwell keep sending out snotagrams about those of us who can't hack 50 hours each and every year and the Boss dutifully takes it to heart....nett result : no currently flying pilots left on the unit. Bloggs must be under the impression that all ex-mil pilots are in their dotage.

Used to be a great craic until the fun police got stuck in.

[Broken Wings]

Wycombe thanks for the extra info.
Does anyone know if you you go into the RAuxAF on FTRS terms do they stop your RAF pension?
I've got the RAuxAF address but I'd be interested to hear before putting pen to paper.

[ShyTorque]

Do they stop your pension?

No, they abate it.

When I enquired by phone I couldn't get the man at Binnsworth to actually say stop. Perhaps he thought I was stupid enough not to know what abate means.

Mind you, he seemed not to understand what I meant when I said it would mean a drop in income and so it wasn't worth it.

It seems a similar scheme to them taking your watch back after 20 years service. :rolleyes:

[kbf1]

Any FTRS time is non-consolidated and does not go towards any pension rights you may hold.

Also, check the T&Cs of your engagement. Some jobs do not have an "X-Factor" in the pay and as such will be less than your rank counterparts. Typical jobs would be a unit PSAO or an SO post which is time-barred or project based. I heard there was an SO3 job at RMAS which was an 18 month slot delivering an IT project to aid OCdts in learing G1 as part of the course. This would be minus x-factor as it does not have a call-up liability.

[Talk Reaction]

Broken wings,
Not heavy myself (or so I tell myself when going to the bar rather than the gym), but I was under the impression that ME world was rather over bourne with pilots, as a result I dont think many chaps managed to get jobs back last year...

On a different tack, just guessing but if you were medically downgraded and left but were perhaps young, maybe you could get back in full time... RW and FJ are desperately short and if you already had wings you must be a good bet (of course this would depend wholly on flexibility and common sense from the "wheels" - maybe a waste of time...)

All the best

ps our reservists keep the sqn going and to a man seem well happy to be back..

[Broken Wings]

Shy Torque Abate the pension? I assume they mean you get to keep it but you get paid a lower salary. Is that a fair interpretation?
kbf1 sorry don't understand non-consolidated.
Talk Reaction I can understand why they're overborne but as soon as civy street picks up they'll probably be short again, which will hopefully solve my predicament. I still feel young but whether 43/44 is young I don't know! Needless to say the best I'd get back in would be "as or with co-pilot". Thanks for your wishes.

[teeteringhead]

Broken Wings, Shy Torque et al

My understanding of the pension abatement is that the pension is reduced so that pension + reserve pay is equal to what your pay was before. We're talking basic pay here, so no difference to flt lts and sqn ldrs.

However, wg cdrs and above, who now find themselves flt lts, actually get a PAY RISE because they're back on full flying pay.

Net result: no-one gets any less, some get more! Plus you get your gratuity in your back pocket.

This is recent good int - was speaking last week to an ex-wg cdr FJ mate who is now FTRS flt lt. He gets more pay, more flying, less paperwork and the thick end of £100K gratuity! I name no names, but he has a very wide grin these days .............

Oh, and he has the option to resign if posted!;) ;)

[Dan Winterland]

BW, no requirement for FTRS heavy pilots for the foreseeable future. There may be requirements for some in the training world. Speak to the PTC desk officer.

[ShyTorque]

The RAF is short of experienced pilots and very much wishes to attract back in some of those already retired. I asked about the terms and was told I would be very welcome back because of my qualifications and experience (and was asked "when can you start?").

As far as I am concerned, I already earned my pension and have been in receipt of it for some time. To remove any part of it from my sticky mitt which would put me on a lower income than I earn now just isn't going to happen.

Time doesn't stand still for anyone having left the RAF or any part of the military. People do go on to other things; in my case I have more flying quals and a lot more experience than when I left the Service. I also have more family financial responsibilities than a few years ago.

Myself and many others just aren't going to give up our civvy quals to go back onto a lower salary because we just can't afford to.

The hierarchy must still have their heads where the sun don't shine over this. A civvy I will stay.;)

[kbf1]

BW, consolidated pay is considered pensionable. Usually this is your basic salary. Non-consolidated is pay that does not attract a pension such as flying pay and other allowances.

For example, let's say your pension after 16 years is 25% of your final salary based on consolidated pay, you get 25% of your basic pay and not other non-consolidated allowances that you received as part of your overall take-home.

FTRS is non-consolidated pay. If you have done 16 years and qualify for a mil pension and decide to resign your reg commission and jump into FTRS the pay you receive as a reservist is not pensionable and will not count towards pension increments.

I'm not a pension expert, so the details are a bit sketchy, but I am sure that FTRS pay doesn't count to any pension rights, hence it being non-consolidated.

[Broken Wings]

So you basically get paid as you did before but made up of - Your RAF Pension+FTRS (non pensionable)+Flying Pay (non-pensionable) so the net result is a loss due to no increase in pension when you retire and having to set aside money for a private pension. Nice one MoD!
Dan I'm just trying to cover all avenues at the moment and hopefully this one won't be player in the end. The training route is a non-starter with an "as, or with co-pilot" restriction as I wasn't a multi QFI.

[Dan Winterland]

I'm with you on that one ST. I applied for FTRS (in a post 9/11 depression) and was offered a job, but not the one I applied for. I refused for exactly the reasons you outlined. There's no scope for improvement once in the job. Unless they change the terms of service they will only get 55 year olds. But perhaps that's all they want.

[TicketyBoo]

Broken Wings,

Have a look at www.rafcom.co.uk which has info on pay and allowances - it may help you; I say may as I haven't trawled through it all.

I don't know your financial situation, but it could come down to a harsh choice of salary minus pension being more than pension plus dole!

And if you do go down the FTRS route, you can always sue the MOD later to get the dosh back - there have been a couple of cases in the press lately, the details of which escape me, where the MOD have been forced to pay up having been caught shortchanging pensioners.

[ShyTorque]

Ticketyboo,

It's a sad state of affairs when the previously glorious RAF is only one step up from the dole :rolleyes:

The administrators of these reserve schemes need to wake up to the real world. If they want the correct people, they've got to pay the correct money.

I was also approached a few years back to be asked if I would become a High Readiness Reserve Pilot, which I think was the predecessor of the current system. Again, having looked at the terms offered, my employer of the time was expected to hold open my job while I disappeared for training and operations. No employer in his right mind would or could do that. I declined the offer, because had I taken it up I would have been on the dole shortly afterwards (I was working abroad anyway). One later employer I worked for allowed pilots to be members of the scheme ONLY if ALL time away for training etc was taken as leave. Anyone with a wife or family need not apply!

[teeteringhead]

Broken Wings

Not sure of the exact details, but FTRS servive DOES add to already achieved pension rights - again from reliable source referred to earlier. But it may be the Full-Time bit that makes it count.

Don't ENTIRELY understand Shy Torque's point; no-ones being conscripted, if you don't like the terms then you don't join! I certainly know of a number of very happy FTRS pilots (and other aircrew) in the RW and FJ world [wouldn't admit to knowing truckies anyway ...;) ]

So you takes yer choice and gets paid yer money - if you like it, do it; if you don't, don't. What's the prob?

[ShyTorque]

TH,

My point is simply that the terms aren't favourable enough to draw back in any great numbers the more experienced people that the Service admits it now needs, to a critical degree in some areas.

The reason is this: It cannot be seen that there is a disparity in rewards, seen to disadvantage those already serving.

But I earned my pension, the contributions came out of my salary. I'm certainly not prepared to give it up to avoid upsetting a perceived applecart. The Service actually does take away the pension of people like myself, for the "privilege" of re-joining. Call it abatement if you like but it's taken away. It would be OK if it was re-invested for the individual, but it's not, it's just taken. It really is a case of "you play ball with us, please, and we'll shove the bat...".

As always market forces prevail. If it was financially worthwhile I would consider signing up again. It isn't and hasn't been ever since I retired. Simple.:(

[Broken Wings]

TicketyBoo - for my case you are spot on and sadly Shy Torque you right as well.
Thanks to everyone for their contributions to my initial post and I think it's reached the stage where the next step is to put pen to paper... but not quite yet until I see what the Autumn airline recruiting round has to offer.
Regards

[Bigears]

Bring back the Chippy!
I remember when there were 4 at that AEF.
Honked up enough times in the back of them :D

[Neveragain]

BW - have sent you a private message with details as far as I understand them. Be aware that, with the introduction of the PA spine in Apr 2003, things may become even more complicated in terms of your options! Any quessies, and I'd be happy to sniff around PSF/PMA on your behalf.

[Broken Wings]

Neveragain - Thanks for info most appreciated and have emailed you back. Rgds.