Derry/Londonderry-3

[cuthere]

More emergency funding for the airport. Whilst I wholeheartedly support CoDA, I hope they have devised some kind of post-Covid plan (and with the various vaccines proving their efficacy, we can start looking forward to this) to help bolster and boost the route network. I appreciate that will be a tricky thing to do in the current climate.

https://www.derrystrabane.com/Council/News/Financial-support-welcomed-for-CODA

[GAZMO]

Good to see government at long last seeing the need to support our airports. Hope same support will apply to BHD and BFS

BBC coverage
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-55005084

[True Blue]

I think Bhd and Ldy have both had support, I'm not sure that Bfs has had any. Not sure why Bfs has had no support.

[Fly757X]

It sounds as if BFS will be in line for some shortly too. :ok:

[buzz_hornet]

An unelected Councillor is calling for the airport to be closed in response to the new covid strain

[Fly757X]

I'd be surprised if that were to come about as LM have already changed their schedule to reflect what they had during the last peak (6x Weekly) with altered times this time about to support essential business travel.

It's certainly been a hectic week I'm sure for all involved at the airport. I'm not sure if this is related to what the previous poster mentioned but this was published there:

https://www.derrynow.com/news/news/597646/council-to-hold-a-special-meeting-next-week-to-discuss-issues-at-city-of-derry-airport.html

[buzz_hornet]

With the airport essentially running at 20% of its usual numbers, I:d ideally like to see some sort of compromise scenario.

As mentioned the Councillor involved was co-opted and wants to make a name for himself

[Fly757X]

Back to the negotiation table: https://www.derryjournal.com/lifestyle/travel/derry-dublin-2021-air-route-radar-coda-managing-director-3086289

Further to this a short interview was given from the manager too about the operation during the pandemic: https://www.derryjournal.com/lifestyle/travel/interview-people-north-west-deserve-better-connectivity-coda-managing-director-steve-frazer-3086231

[Fly757X]

LDY-LPL is being increased to 4x weekly for S21 with the extra flight operating in late afternoon every Sunday. Not on sale at present but the times are visible.

[Fly757X]

CAA stats for November 2020:

LDY movements:

248 (2020) = -55%

554 (2019)

Passenger Numbers:

5,580 (2020) = -69%

18,005 (2019)

Passengers per route:

- EDINBURGH (EDI) = 1,859 = -58%
- GLASGOW (GLA) = 14 = -69%
- LIVERPOOL (LPL) = 2,237 = -43%
- LONDON (STN) = 1,470 = -54% (When compared to SEN during NOV 2019)

Load Factors:

- EDINBURGH (EDI) = 41%
- GLASGOW (GLA) = 15%
- LIVERPOOL (LPL) = 42%
- LONDON (STN) = 53%



CAA stats for December 2020:

LDY movements:

158 (2020) = -61%

404 (2019)

Passenger Numbers:

5,964 (2020) = -68%

18,419 (2019)

Passengers per route:

- EDINBURGH (EDI) = 1,527 = -79%
- LIVERPOOL (LPL) = 2,550 = -55%
- LONDON (STN) = ~1,848 = -46% (When compared to SEN during NOV 2019)

Load Factors:

- EDINBURGH (EDI) = 37%
- LIVERPOOL (LPL) = 56%
- LONDON (STN) = 48%



I have preliminary figures for the full year, just need them confirmed. I think given the challenges presented this year, these stats really aren't as bad as we would've all feared. I'd like to think an improvement across the board will begin to come to light over the coming months towards the start of summer and all being well, those improvements will be permanent. Stay safe!

[cuthere]

Being reported that Ryanair is canning all UK domestic routes. I assume this includes. LDY-EDI and LDY-LPL. While flights are still listed in their website, they are no longer bookable.

[Fly757X]

Not good at all. I think everyone thought that this would eventually sorted one way or another in fairness.

Every cloud has a silver lining with LDY. Let’s hope this is no exception.

[allan1987]

Looks like Edinburgh and Liverpool to City of Derry has been cut from Ryanair, i wounder would loganair will be interested in taking over these 2 routes

[Fly757X]

Good start on recovering, albeit we didn’t expect it would be a last minute Brexit technicality.

Whilst the capacity won’t be returning to FR levels anytime soon it’s brilliant to see these coming online at some level. The daily service will prove viable I’m sure and it’s good to see GLA being increased to 7x weekly as well. Crucial that LPL is starting before the summer to in my eyes.

Its does beg the question if anything else could be a possibility now too. With smaller capacities on existing routes, could it reopen the likes of MAN without the tough competition from FR on LPL and could EDI potentially make a reappearance now that even despite GLA’s increase, the capacity to the central belt will still be hugely suppressed. The Midlands/Jersey were touted too when LM’s MD came across for the 40 anniversary of themselves at the airport, not saying these are a direct possibility but hopefully this is the start of a growth period too rather than a recovery. It’s going to take a lot more ER4s operating daily to make back the previous throughput which seems to be the only important aspect to local Joe on the street discussing the airports viability. Obviously again it’ll take further investment in the airport through an extra based frame or a rework of schedules but stranger things have happened in the last year. Much much stranger at that! :}

[cuthere]

Strong rumours circulating that the LDY-STN flights will transfer to LHR at the end of May. Impressive, but given the record low traffic numbers at LHR, I’d imagine there are slots to be had.

[Alteagod]

I think it's more fact than rumours at this stage. Be interesting to see if it code shares. If so could be big boost for North West.

[Derry321]

Announcement due any day I am informed. LDY showing as a departure point on BA.com - however not sure if this was the case previously with connections via GLA or if it's a positive sign that will be a BA codeshare which if correct is a huge plus for the airport and region

[Fly757X]

It was indeed listed over on ba.com however it was completely unusable as no matter what combination you’d input through GLA it would bring back nothing. Here’s hoping there will be a BA codeshare as it would truly mean the world to a region like the NW.

[Geolog]

Looks like the LDY slots have disappeared from the Heathrow T2 arrivals/departures for May and June. Still visible from 1st July on. Some indication of their intentions would be helpful. Worth noting that the entry point fare from T2 to IOM or Teeside is around £79, reflecting high operating costs from LHR. This would not sell well in the LDY market, which prefers the current £39 starting point (but would really like Ryanair much more).

[Fly757X]

Loganair’s winter 2021/2020 schedule was published today and is roughly as follows:

STN 13x Weekly (Single service on a Saturday.)
LPL 7x Weekly
GLA 5x Weekly (Doesn’t operate on Wednesdays or Saturdays.)

No real surprises however it’s good to see LPL is maintaining its summer frequency which was set to be reduced after August to 6x weekly. STN is still showing after it’s much rumoured switch to LHR however it is important to note that starting fares have risen from their previous ~£40 starting fare to ~£75 which is inline with their other offerings into LHR. Most services remain operated by the local crews apart from 2x of the GLA rotations. Always a platform to hopefully build upon with better times and frequencies down the line all being well.

[Solar]

I understand this question has been several times afore but can anybody see a long term commercial future for Derry airport when eventually some sort of normality returns given the upgraded A6, spiraling costs to the rate payers and reduced political support in the area?

[Fly757X]

Firstly, I will be biased here.

This question is brought up as you say regularly and is rightly questioned. If we didn't question current ways, we couldn't improve. There is a future for it for sure, it won't be world beating and it will be a constant uphill struggle like it has been for the last ~42 years. But that is expected. The A6 matter is an interesting one for a few reasons. It's not going to drastically change travel time in a way that will improve quality of life to justify removing Eglinton purely on that basis. Secondly, It's a two way road, if a more appropriate service was on offer at Eglinton for particular passengers then who's to say they won't head up this way? I know that anecdotally, if an appropriate service is on offer at Eglinton, it will be used over going to Belfast without a doubt, the A6 won't change this as CoDA won't be moving farther away from it's own catchment, it will just be that BFS/BHD will be all of 10 minutes closer. A recent business study was carried out to assess the viability of the burden on local ratepayers and it was determined that this must change. Various avenues are to be explored, some slightly optimistic in my eyes but why right them off? We simply won't know the negotiations behind the scenes. I don't see evidence of reduced political support. There is always the same councillors who are continually against the facility and this hasn't and simply won't change, support hasn't grown either however it has to be said. It'll always be a divisive issue which will be constantly under review and rightly so.

As I said in my previous post, what is currently present is a base to build upon with extra frequencies and altered times in the short term. One such small change would be a later GLA service on a Friday however this is of course unlikely as you're competing against BHD/SYY/SOU for LM's attention on that one, providing they would insist that it would be served by an ER4. I think a good way to look at this is being back to square one. There is nothing to patch up now and what is currently offered is the smallest CoDA will ever contract to again in regards to capacity. This can only mean future announcements over the next year or two (if there is to be any of course) can only be seen in a good light from the local ratepayers, many of whom are disgruntled at the subvention. At present LPL is performing well by the looks of things, maintaining its frequency this coming winter and with a number services in the first week or service either being full or in the upper fare bands already. STN is going to 14x weekly on a regular basis for the first time since the PSO's inception back in 2017 and then to 15x weekly come July. I raised questions over LM's suitability operating to other cities in the UK besides London after the poor performance on MAN, especially given the price sensitive market we are. but I'm beginning to change this. A DUB PSO as mentioned in the "New Decade New Approach" agreement is to be explored, this was also mentioned in the recent business case I mentioned earlier and some form of service to BHX would undoubtedly be the next thing to look at over the next couple of seasons. Who, what, when and how? Who knows but it will be the next step domestically. All this whilst working to establish a usable international range much like what has operated in the past could herald a change in the coming years. A Head of Business Development has now been appointed, something I can't remember being a dedicated post in the previous 10 years under RCA's management so potentially a sign of meaningful intent?

Will it ever break even? Probably not but in a few years with developments I'm hopeful we could maybe look at the issue and asses that yes, what we have now is value for money and a undeniably important piece of infrastructure to the region and its population.

[Solar]

575
Hope you are correct but it is very hard to be optimistic given the present situation.
As you correctly point out it’s largely down to routes and schedules. I have been traveling abroad for work for more years than I care to think about and I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I was able utilize Derry.

[cuthere]

City of Derry’s peak was in the late 2000s when it was seeing over 400,000 passengers a year. This was almost exclusively down to FR: 2x daily STN, complemented by LPL, BHX/EMA, PIK, FAO, and various others. At one point LTN and STN were operating simultaneously. So what’s my point here? Well, during this period when FR were clearing up all demand and monopolising not only routes, but access to whole regions, no other airline had a sniff. Then the financial crash occurred, and the rest, as they say, is history.

LM were doing a reasonable job of rebuilding connectivity and then C19 came along. Going forward Derry airport needs to look south for financial and other support. A lot of pax who use LDY originate in Donegal. Largely, that makes the A6 argument redundant for these people as for some NOC will be closer than BFS or BHD.

[Fly757X]

Yeah I'm with you here. The A6 is barely a threat in my eyes. The biggest risk will be the failure to push on from here to engage the Irish Government into providing a PSO amongst other forms of support much like Knock etc. Domestically, there is an opportunity with an increasingly saturated market on the horizon with the prospect of some form of Flybe coming back into the frame and whatever Ettyl will make for themselves. When the industry is suppressed now for the remainder of this year and potentially into next is the time to push on in my eyes and get something new on offer. A stumbling block is the already fully committed based ER4, this providing no feasible ways to work anything else into the schedule in the short run.

Solar

Yeah there has been multiple instances, particularly with GLA's time that I just can't use it as much as I'd like. I've always said all along a good workable schedule goes a long way in making or breaking an operation such as the one we have.

[cuthere]

New charters to FAO and PMI announced for summer 2022. Wednesday for both flights.

[Alteagod]

With which operator? Air2000 used to do LDY I think in the day.

[cuthere]

This article wasn’t available when I posted yesterday, but some of the details are in here:

https://www.derryjournal.com/news/transport/city-of-derry-airport-announce-summer-sun-flights-to-majorca-and-the-algarve-for-2022-3349569

I’ve read elsewhere it’s Albastar on a W pattern: PMI-LDY-FAO-LDY-PMI.

[Alteagod]

Excellent news and well done CODA

[cuthere]

Well, well, well. Ryanair return to Derry in December, with a 3X weekly route to Manchester. Currently operating on Sundays, Wednesdays and Fridays

[True Blue]

I thought Ryanair had had enough of APD, lack of Covid recovery incentives etc etc etc in NI in general. Isn't that the stated reasons for leaving both Belfast airports now? A business with no morals of any kind.

[Alteagod]

Full of fresh country air that airline. They are no doubt still sniffing around the other two trying to get " route development incentives"

[scodaman]

https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/ryanair-launches-new-route-from-derry-to-manchester-from-winter-21/?market=en

[cuthere]

And now LM add Edinburgh. Starts May 2022. No doubt they’re availing of support funding from Stormont. This appears to be as well as, rather than instead of, Glasgow.

[Fly757X]

The NIDAKS schedule finished at the end of the month as far as I’m aware, if not next.

Im cautiously hopeful this doesn’t have any significant funding mechanism behind the route itself.

Good news regardless!

[scodaman]

Manchester flights started yesterday.

https://www.derryjournal.com/news/transport/ryanair-back-in-derry-as-manchester-flight-takes-off-3478704

[scodaman]

From good news yesterday to this news today. "City of Derry Airport may be at 'severe financial risk'"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59502259

[GAZMO]

Just give the money to Airporter and provide free service to BFS , BHD or DUB

[scodaman]

Anyone have any figures on how the loads are doing for the new Ryanair Manchester flight?

[cuthere]

MAN-LDY increasing to 4x weekly from 2nd May. Additional flight on a Monday evening.
Dep MAN 19:45, depart LDY at 21:15.

[EI-BUD]

Anyone have any figures on how the loads are doing for the new Ryanair Manchester flight?
Just looked there Dec had 3,613 passengers and Jan 2,117. Source CAA stats. December loads would seem reasonable. Though not 100% on frequency, am thinking it was X3 weekly each way. On that basis Jan soft enough, but clearly this will be improving.

[cuthere]

January dropped to 2x weekly for a chunk of the month. As ever with FR and their frequencies, they don’t increase them out of charity.

[cuthere]

Does anyone know why Aer Lingus Regional have been doing multiple sectors a day between BHD and LDY over the last several days? Training flights?

[Alteagod]

Training for the G reg aircraft I believe

[cuthere]

Cheers!

[EI-BUD]

Sadly Loganair will axe its LDY/EDI link from Jan/03. They cite increased competition from Belfast's airports, and rising fuel costs as principle reasons. Ryanair coming no doubt playing a part.
On the flip side, Glasgow will go to daily for peak summer.

[cuthere]

What has happened Loganair over the Christmas period. Their schedule from Derry’s been a shambles. Many flights delayed by several hours, some cancelled. This evening’s 17:40 to Stansted departed close to 23:00, on a Titan A320.

Not really what an airline wants to be doing when the PSO tender’s just completed.

[Buster the Bear]

I’m guessing bad weather in Scotland? At least they make the effort to get passengers to their destinations.

[AirportPlanner1]

Looks like the afternoon arrival into STN is still there. Assume the afternoon and evening STN-LDY were combined onto the A320 and it returned to base with the evening London-bound pax. Looks like credit due for not cancelling and they got everyone where they needed to be. These things happen.

Not sure how anyone else would have managed the same situation any better.

[cuthere]

Thanks both. My point was a broader one: that being this has been going on right across the Christmas period. I had one flight delayed by three hours, and know of others who had long delays/cancellations.

Love Loganair, and as you say, few airlines would have gone to the efforts they did last night, but the festive schedules have been chaotic. The CAA stats will be interesting.

[Dulaman]

Could Loganair's Derry to Stansted route be moving to Heathrow? I assume they'll probably need a bigger aircraft as well, maybe using an ATR instead of ERJ-145. Speaking to Aviation Daily on the sidelines of an Aviation Club lunch in London on Feb. 7, Loganair CEO Jonathan Hinkles said he requested Flybe’s seven Heathrow slot pairs as soon as he heard that Flybe had halted operations, at 5:15 a.m. on Jan. 29.

“We were the first to apply,” he said. “Nobody else had applied before us at that point.” However, Flybe’s affairs are currently in the hands of administrators, so the slots have not yet been returned to the slot pool.

Loganair would use the slots for UK connectivity, moving its established 3X-daily City of Derry-London Stansted flights to Heathrow.

[Geolog]

Only looked at the departure boards a few moments ago, but there seems to be some unusual activity for a Sunday evening in February (or any evening). There is T39752 out to Aberdeen at 18.40, EXS042C in from BFS at 19.30 and out to Glasgow at 20.20 and EXS012C in from Birmingham at 19.40 and back to Birmingham at 20.30. All of these are irregular operations. Not aware of any events, and certainly none which would generate that level of traffic.

[cuthere]

There have been a few Jet2 charters in and out. One on Friday and one last night as well. As you say, not obvious what’s driving the additional traffic.

[sdbelgium]

They were charters on behalf of a large U.K. construction firm.

[Musket90]

Glasgow flights could be related to Rangers V Celtic football league cup finaL match.

[Geolog]

CODA website showing pilgrimage charters to Lourdes later this year. It has been many years since there was any such traffic. First date is 21 May (Raphoe Diocese), with two more mentioned in July. A departure is listed for 3 July (Derry Diocese), but not clear where the second July departure is.

It would have been good to see Ryanair back on Edinburgh this season.

[cuthere]

Appears that the LDY-STN route will indeed be changing to LDY-LHR this summer.

I recall Lourdes was served donkeys ago from the airport. Good to see additional traffic (of any kind!).

[Kinocker]

Heathrow route launching April 30th it seems.

[cuthere]

LDY-LHR confirmed to start on May 6th.

[StewartLDY]

Does anyone know if any airline as applied for slots from LDY

[GAZMO]

Future of Derry to Liverpool flights in doubt (derryjournal.com) (https://www.derryjournal.com/news/people/future-of-derry-to-liverpool-flights-in-doubt-4340706)

[Diff Tail Shim]

Future of Derry to Liverpool flights in doubt (derryjournal.com) (https://www.derryjournal.com/news/people/future-of-derry-to-liverpool-flights-in-doubt-4340706)
If they are not profitable to fly, they stop. Simple economics.

[cuthere]

This route used to be popular, but FR to MAN has killed it.

[Diff Tail Shim]

This route used to be popular, but FR to MAN has killed it.
Of course.

[SWBKCB]

Italian carrier Neos in the first quarter of 2024 schedules Verona – Derry flight, on board Boeing 737-800 aircraft. The airline currently files Saturday-only service from 27JAN24 to 17FEB24.

Aeroroutes - Neos Adds Verona – Derry Service in 1Q24 (https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/231030-no1q24ldy)

[scodaman]

"City Of Derry Airport: Sharp decline in passengers in last decade"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-67471713

[BHD2BFS]

I very much doubt the tax payer sees much of a return from the £3.45m support with passenger figures so low.

With the new motorway from Derry to Belfast open and the return of Ryanair to BFS and schedule increases with easyJet giving passengers a better choice with day returns and value for money, the passenger figures can only drop further in my opinion.

[SWBKCB]

City of Derry Airport is owned by Derry City and Strabane District Council (DCSDC) and costs ratepayers £3.45m to help with operational costs, which is five per cent of the council's entire annual budget.

This is bit of a surprise

[cuthere]

I very much doubt the tax payer sees much of a return from the £3.45m support with passenger figures so low.

With the new motorway from Derry to Belfast open and the return of Ryanair to BFS and schedule increases with easyJet giving passengers a better choice with day returns and value for money, the passenger figures can only drop further in my opinion.

The last economic assessment suggested the net benefit was in the order of £10m to the local economy. Naturally that figure is redundant based on latest pax numbers.

As for a motorway from Derry to Belfast. Not quite…..

[cuthere]

Sean M reporting in Twitter that FR are starting summer seasonal BHX-LDY. 2x weekly, Sat and Weds. Nice to have that route back, even at that frequency.

[jmdavies86]

Extension of funding for LDY-LHR announced; Loganair to continue to operate the route: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-68292902

[cuthere]

Hard to believe that over 16,000/month used to use the unsubsidised LDY-STN back in the day, and that at one point there were FR flights to both LTN and STN. Can’t help but feel the airport has painted itself into a corner.

[Alteagod]

I wud be interested to know how much traffic on this route feeds into onward connections ex LHR as its now a code share with BA flight