Network Aviation East Coast

[aussieflyboy]

Network Aviation operated an A320 into Brisbane recently. Is this the first step of AJs plan to get rid of those expensive 737 pilots operating QLD mine site charters? Hard to keep up with the cheap E-Jets from Alliance soon to be taking as much work from QF as possible.

[TBM-Legend]

Network Aviation operated an A320 into Brisbane recently. Is this the first step of AJs plan to get rid of those expensive 737 pilots operating QLD mine site charters? Hard to keep up with the cheap E-Jets from Alliance soon to be taking as much work from QF as possible.

What Qld mine site charters? I think Alliance and VA have a lot of dancing to do before QF joins in to the Pride of Erin with the Leprechaun.

[brokenagain]

Is this the first step of AJs plan to get rid of those expensive 737 pilots operating QLD mine site charters?

The only destination that QF 737s operate to inland in Queensland is Isa, and that’s RPT not charter.

[Going Nowhere]

It was a charter direct into BNE from a WA mine. It then operated another charter back to PER

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VHJQX/history/20201220/2330Z/YEWA/YBBN

[MajorLemond]

I think you'll be seeing a lot more a320 activity on the east coast next year. Was only a matter of time.

[dr dre]

I think you'll be seeing a lot more a320 activity on the east coast next year. Was only a matter of time.

Great, might make AIPA pay some attention, instead of worrying whether $400k to fly an A350 is underpaid.

[blubak]

I think you'll be seeing a lot more a320 activity on the east coast next year. Was only a matter of time.
Was always the plan,now just a lot easier.
Similar to the new routes recently announced for the 717s.

[Ragnor]

There is a new era about to dawn on us all. A refurnished competitor, growing charter company, another new new competitor going to give it a go that has the gov in their back pocket.

[aussieflyboy]

Was always the plan,now just a lot easier.
Similar to the new routes recently announced for the 717s.

The 717 is a completely different scale - it’s there to stop a competitor bringing in E-Jets or CRJs. Not much point flying a 737 around with 60-80 people on board. The 320 is a direct replacement at a lower cost base. Look at the WA market. Where a 737 with appropriately paid flight crew used to operate regular RPT routes to BME, KTA, PHE now cheaply crewed 320s are doing it. From a business point of view it would make sense to start A320 to Cairns/Isa ect

[unobtanium]

Only a matter of time before Qlink a320's take over all 737 operations. Cheaper crew, easier loading/unloading, better reliability, now with outsourced ground handlers even easier to operate everywhere. Noneed for overpaid pilots or engineer's.

[dr dre]

better reliability,

Not at all, actual quite the opposite and significantly too.....

From a business point of view it would make sense to start A320 to Cairns/Isa ect

Why stop there? Nothing stopping them from doing SYD-MEL-BNE, it might take that for the union to finally notice

[DirectAnywhere]

it might take that for the union to finally notice

I'm certain the union has noticed but what, pray tell, are they supposed to do?

1. The vast majority of their members are stood downing meaning no $$ coming in.
2. There is no legal option for taking any form of industrial action.
3. Even if they COULD take industrial action, the consequences of any such action would pale into insignificance when viewed against what COVID and border closures have managed to do the company.
4. Take the company to court? With what $$ and on what basis? Unions hardly have a stellar record when it comes to taking legal action against QANTAS.

Network will doubtless expand with red tails and take both opportunities and conditions from Mainline pilots. We've been watching the same pattern now for 20 years since the acquisition of Impulse. The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour. Exactly what that means as it plays out time will tell. Expect it to be somewhere in the range between a crap EA offer next time around with a "take-it-or-leave-it" approach up to and including redundancy. That's the range of possible outcomes. Where will it fall? No idea.

[goodonyamate]

Only a matter of time before Qlink a320's take over all 737 operations. Cheaper crew, easier loading/unloading, better reliability, now with outsourced ground handlers even easier to operate everywhere. Noneed for overpaid pilots or engineer's.

knob of the year post material right there.

[unobtanium]

knob of the year post material right there.

How many 737's have been replaced with 717's over the years? it is only a matter of time before the 717's get replaced with a320's. your kidding yourself if you don't think this will happen. punter's don't know the difference as long as its a red tail. cobham, impulse, network, qantas, same same.

[ohfa]

Would network really be the replacement for Qantas short haul (737)?
There are approx 650 737 pilots in mainline.
There has been the token fso issued inviting mainline pilots to take lwop where after passing the selection hurdles join network. However looking at the fine print to be eligible, one needs to be endorsed on the 320 and have time on type.
We all know that allows training costs to be omitted from the groups cash burn. Bugger all 737 drivers with 320 time.
But what is the end goal?
Will the 650 pilots be absorbed into network to fly the 320?
Or will this pilot group be absorbed into Longhaul? That area of the Qantas due to the pandemic is shrinking for now.
Will the pilot group be made redundant? Probably not possible industrially and also extremely expensive to the qantas group to pay out the pilots in theory.
Isnt this the same pilot group that have provided the greatest profit to qantas every year since the gfc?...

[aussieflyboy]

It won’t be a complete replacement, not even close. It will be a gradual takeover of routes as aircraft become available.

Brisbane will be the first base as an all economy Jet can do Cairns and Isa with no-one even blinking.

Even a 20-30% takeover of 737 routes is a huge cost saving to the company. It also provides protection against industrial issues (PIA) as they can keep the punters moving.

[Chad Gates]

Won't happen. It's too expensive and serves very little purpose. It's all been said before. Get your hands off it gentlemen.

[TBM-Legend]

Join the PPRUNE Gym where you get your exercise by jumping to conclusions!

[PoppaJo]

Your missing the point of old A320s which are highly unreliable. They are nothing but engineering nightmares. Mainline customer satisfaction and corporate contracts are very important, wouldn’t want to cede too much of that business to Virgin with a young fleet and new machines on the horizon, all due to cheap A320s with bull**** reliability.

[roger_ramjet]

It will happen.
The current Eastern/Sunstate Chief Pilot is heading to Network early next year as head of standards / alternate chief pilot. His mission, should he choose to accept it, is to sort out Network, get it integrated into the QF group properly so they can slide into east coast bases in a year or so.
Probably lines up nicely with 717 fleet retirement anyway, those things are about as reliable as my mitsubishi sigma.

[aussieflyboy]

Your missing the point of old A320s which are highly unreliable. They are nothing but engineering nightmares. Mainline customer satisfaction and corporate contracts are very important, wouldn’t want to cede too much of that business to Virgin with a young fleet and new machines on the horizon, all due to cheap A320s with bull**** reliability.

The Network 320s are the same age as a whole bunch of 737s and 717s. Most reliability issues comes down to QF management sacking all the good (expensive) engineers.

[Buttscratcher]

Unreliable?.....then perhaps AJ will just give the J* NEOs directly to Network

[Derfred]

How many 737's have been replaced with 717's over the years?

Zero.

QF still have as many 737's as they ever had.

[blubak]

Zero.

QF still have as many 737's as they ever had.
Yes they do right now but that doesnt mean it wont or cant change very soon.
There are quite a few with leases that expire very soon & a big cost saving can be had by not renewing them.
There are plenty of leisure routes where a very cheaply operated 320 will fit in very nicely & also theres the 330s still in storage that mainline can put on the trunk routes if required.
The 717s are not going anywhere for now,they are gearing up to do maintenance on them in melbourne.
Network arent there for no reason,expansion is a given.

[goodonyamate]

Which pile of money are the QF group using to pay for all these network NEO’s?

the capital budget has shrunk considerably, and the focus is now sunrise.

it sounds like a wet dream for the odd pilot with a chip on his shoulder, but the reality is, the flying plan for the 737 post Covid has it doing more hours than it ever has. So maybe network will expand, and I honestly hope that it can soak up some of the crew who have lost their jobs this year. But any expansion will be because the whole group is growing, not because of some industrial ploy.

[airdualbleedfault]

C'mon guys, Network replacing 737 flying is about as likely to happen as Jetstar flying trunk routes.............
Hang on a minute :eek:

[Buttscratcher]

Did anyone protest when the 73s took over some of the mine charter work previously being flown by Network?
Apparently Mainline 73s still supplement a small chunk of the Charter contracts in WA.
Will the A320s replace the 73s in WA?......yeah probably.
Will they run over some 73 intestate routes in the future?.....probably. Just don't bother whinging about it when it happens.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Which pile of money are the QF group using to pay for all these network NEO’s?

the capital budget has shrunk considerably, and the focus is now sunrise.

it sounds like a wet dream for the odd pilot with a chip on his shoulder, but the reality is, the flying plan for the 737 post Covid has it doing more hours than it ever has. So maybe network will expand, and I honestly hope that it can soak up some of the crew who have lost their jobs this year. But any expansion will be because the whole group is growing, not because of some industrial ploy.

Agreed.

We can complain that 737 flying has gone elsewhere, but overall the hours are up, not down (pre COVID)..

If the hours reduce then we have a transfer of business problem..

All signs point to greater share of the market for mainline flying, not less.

[dr dre]

it sounds like a wet dream for the odd pilot with a chip on his shoulder, but the reality is, the flying plan for the 737 post Covid has it doing more hours than it ever has.

True, forecasts for the 737 indicate it’ll be flying more later in 2021 than at any point in 2019. The aircraft, even the older ones, have high dispatch reliability and now have all had the wifi fit.

NA’s 320s will probably just be for resource sector growth only, spare parts or to take over a reduction in VA flying. It’ll be hard to attract crew to Network in 2 years once most stood down pilots are back at work and contracts in China are offering triple the pay tax free in USD.

[unobtanium]

Yous are all so delusional. 717's have been taking over 737 routes CBR and ADL etc, 320's will take over once the 717's are deployed elsewhere to battle REX and Alliance. 737 flying is up because they are taking up the 330 and 767 flights eg PER and SIN. All looks good now but once the market picks up it will be 320's that are expanding in capacity not 737's.

[dr dre]

Yous are all so delusional. 717's have been taking over 737 routes CBR and ADL etc, 320's will take over once the 717's are deployed elsewhere to battle REX and Alliance. 737 flying is up because they are taking up the 330 and 767 flights eg PER and SIN. All looks good now but once the market picks up it will be 320's that are expanding in capacity not 737's.

I thought it was Jetstar who were going to take over the world.....

The 320s are gutted with no IFE or wifi and have poor dispatch reliability. You don’t run RPT with aircraft designed for low density flying. Add to that in 2-3 years if international comes back in similar numbers to 2019 there will be a shortage with existing crew. NA will be lucky to hold on to existing crew with those pay rates and overseas contract deals offering substantial tax free commuting contracts.

The QF SH operation is actually quite efficient. A low minimum guarantee and the stand down clauses achieve that. If management really wanted to cut into crewing costs it would be for the LH operation when it returns, even on the 787/350 conditions they far exceed the narrowbody crewing costs. But as they don’t seem to be planning to outsource that flying then I’m pretty sure they haven’t got a secret scheme to outsource SH.

As long as NA keep getting JQ hand me downs I wouldn’t be worried, now if they were getting new NEOs and kitted out interiors then it’s another story.....

[blubak]

Yous are all so delusional. 717's have been taking over 737 routes CBR and ADL etc, 320's will take over once the 717's are deployed elsewhere to battle REX and Alliance. 737 flying is up because they are taking up the 330 and 767 flights eg PER and SIN. All looks good now but once the market picks up it will be 320's that are expanding in capacity not 737's.
I must say i agree with most of this except maybe the delusional part however for those that think the 320s wont start taking over work from the 737 fleet i would think again.
As pointed out the 717 has & will be doing shorter routes once done by the 737 & even doing main city pairs during quieter times.
Even if the 320 is old & unreliable & doesnt have mod cons on board,that wont matter too much,the aim is to lower costs,keep patching them up to keep reliability at a reasonable level & as for ife etc,bad luck for the punter,too late to whinge once paid & in their seat.

[goodonyamate]

That’s because the 737 is needed to do longer routes.

[Climb150]

That’s because the 737 is needed to do longer routes.
320 has slightly longer legs than a 737

[Green.Dot]

320 has slightly longer legs than a 737

Longer Gear Legs. Less range on a stock 320 compared to 737-800. About 2 tonne extra fuel on the later, similar fuel burns. Neo = different story.

[SandyPalms]

There is so much BS in this thread its becoming embarasing. Just a couple of BS statements:
The Network A320's have to be the most unreliable aircraft in the whole group, certainly not more reliable than the 738.
The 738 has more range than the ex Jetstar A320's, always has, always will.
QF doesn't need an all economy A320 going to Cairns, that what Jetstar is for.
The 717's are operating routes that require 100ish seats. The A320 would be as unsuitable to those routes as the 737 is. They aren't replacing 737's anyway. Most of the routes they are flying have only evenr sporadically been flown by mainline for the last 30 years.
I appreciate most of the Network try hards are new to group, and really haven't got a clue, but stop trying to rewrite history to prove your ****ty aircraft will be the new QF.
FFS, what a bunch of tossers.

[dr dre]

In reality these conspiracy theories could have been applied to Eastern, Sunstate, RedQ, Jetconnect, Australian Airlines, Impulse, Jetstar, NJS, Cobham, EFA or any affiliated airline that has had the potential to replace mainline T&C’s over the last 25 years since privatisation. In reality it’s never come to fruition. The current CEO has been in the role for 11 years, and this secret plan to completely outsource mainline has never been seen. In fact at the start of 2020 mainline recruitment was at its highest point possibly since privatisation. Doesn’t sound like a group that secretly wants to get rid of all mainline pilots now does it?

[Climb150]

There is so much BS in this thread its becoming embarasing. Just a couple of BS statements:
The Network A320's have to be the most unreliable aircraft in the whole group, certainly not more reliable than the 738.
The 738 has more range than the ex Jetstar A320's, always has, always will.
QF doesn't need an all economy A320 going to Cairns, that what Jetstar is for.
The 717's are operating routes that require 100ish seats. The A320 would be as unsuitable to those routes as the 737 is. They aren't replacing 737's anyway. Most of the routes they are flying have only evenr sporadically been flown by mainline for the last 30 years.
I appreciate most of the Network try hards are new to group, and really haven't got a clue, but stop trying to rewrite history to prove your ****ty aircraft will be the new QF.
FFS, what a bunch of tossers.
I have worked at an all 320 airline and an all 737 airline. I now work at a mixed 737/A320 airline and I have always seen that the 320 has about a 300 mile longer range than the 737. Are Qantas Airbuses special?

[Green.Dot]

I have worked at an all 320 airline and an all 737 airline. I now work at a mixed 737/A320 airline and I have always seen that the 320 has about a 300 mile longer range than the 737. Are Qantas Airbuses special?

I’m now very intrigued. What variant of 737 (NG or Classic) and 320 (CFM or IAE, etc) are you flying, and what is their respective max fuel capacity in Tonnes?

Not sure we are comparing the same apples here

[SandyPalms]

The 738 carries more full and can fly higher than the A320, while flying at the same speed and fuel burn. Not sure what amazing A320’s (ACT?) or rubbish 737’s you’re operating, but you don’t even need basic math skills to work it out. Maybe you have low MTOW versions of the 737, but even then that’s a weight issue, not a fuel (range) issue.

[wheels_down]

Performance improves with 320S. Can do East Coast to Bali. Jetstar did operate Melbourne to DPS recently with the Sharklet.

321N will be the game changer to Near Asia and will render the 788 obsolete.

738 a still has payload restrictions during the year and stopover required if holding forecasted.

[Transition Layer]

Zero.

QF still have as many 737's as they ever had.
That’s the whole point. The QF Mainline SH fleet should have been growing during that time as the overall market grew, but instead it has remained stagnant for a very long time.

[What The]

Even though I suspect the main protagonists on this thread are probably more closely related to F11 than an F-111 there is nothing sadder to watch then a bunch of pilots salivating over the thought of replacing other pilots on better contracts.

Be careful what you wish for, one day you may have good conditions and the rot continues.

Here’s a thought. Rather than aspiring to replace how about aspiring to replicate. Anything else is pure management wet dreams.

[slice]

At the b team, the 737-800 with winglets had a comfortable endurance of about 6.5 hrs with full tanks (approx 20.5 tonnes). To carry that fuel though you would have to cap pax at about 150~160 (and nil freight of course) due max structural weight. So could do MEL/SYD/BNE to Bali without too much drama (always seemed to be able to carry 60 mins hold if required) and of course PER - HKT was done at between 6 and 6.5 hours. Classic A320s AFAIK have a couple of different tank options but understand the Jetstar 320s are mostly 18T fuel ? Happy to be corrected.

[ShandywithSugar]

Did anyone protest when the 73s took over some of the mine charter work previously being flown by Network?
Apparently Mainline 73s still supplement a small chunk of the Charter contracts in WA.
Will the A320s replace the 73s in WA?......yeah probably.
Will they run over some 73 intestate routes in the future?.....probably. Just don't bother whinging about it when it happens.

This is great - it was bought out.Don't see to much protesting on F and J upgrades. CEO stated two weeks ago there will be no change to the business model. Everyone frothing harder than a Byron Bay cove after the rain bomb about more Airbus. Continued expansion on those terms and conditions is bye bye to the cherished NA 'Lifestyle'.

[knobbycobby]

Are Network hiring? Told they are taking a lot of the stood down type rated crew.
Lucky Qantas are prioritising group pilots for selection.Get a job and stay COVID free in lovely WA.
It beats unpaid stand down for years.
Any idea how many pilots they are looking for?

[Blueskymine]

320 has slightly longer legs than a 737

The only things longer about a network 320 is the hair on the pilots face, and the list of things that’ll need fixing as soon as it touches down.

I’m sure it feels pretty flash to an aspiring network pilot after flying an ageing Fokker who’s done hard time in Africa or South America.

The reality is they have been flogged by Jetstar until they are unreliable for RPT ops and they will see out their lives as ramp queens where they have plenty of time to be fixed before their next service.

No hard feelings to the guys that fly them. Hell, you take what you can get in this game as soon as you can.

We are all pilots and in the same game of chess. Just remember we are all the Pawns.

[PoppaJo]

Anything VH-VQG to Z is a piece of junk. The Saudi machines are still around I believe. Certainly worthy of a network gig that one.

[davidclarke]

Anything VH-VQG to Z is a piece of junk. The Saudi machines are still around I believe. Certainly worthy of a network gig that one.

Does it really matter how reliable they are?
They will operate maybe 3-4 hours per day on mine runs. Plently of down time for the engineers to work on them.
Just like the old JQ 321s going to EFA. They only really fly at night, so they have all day to be worked on.
That’s a lot cheaper than having a brand new aircraft being under-utilised.

[blubak]

Does it really matter how reliable they are?
They will operate maybe 3-4 hours per day on mine runs. Plently of down time for the engineers to work on them.
Just like the old JQ 321s going to EFA. They only really fly at night, so they have all day to be worked on.
That’s a lot cheaper than having a brand new aircraft being under-utilised.
They will need all day to be worked on just to fly a few nights a week.
Was it about 2+ weeks on the ground just recently!

[PoppaJo]

Does it really matter how reliable they are?
They will operate maybe 3-4 hours per day on mine runs. Plently of down time for the engineers to work on them.
Just like the old JQ 321s going to EFA. They only really fly at night, so they have all day to be worked on.
That’s a lot cheaper than having a brand new aircraft being under-utilised.

Well for East Ops as the discussion at hand, sunrise to sunset, most certainly not.

Mining runs. Go for your life.

Virgin does (or did) fly some 320 services Adelaide/Melbourne however they did pickup some of the Tiger machines only 10 years old.

An Airbus Test Pilot once told me, anything at the gate approaching 20 years old, bring a overnight bag. So far his on the money.

[flyingfrenchman]

Does it really matter how reliable they are?
They will operate maybe 3-4 hours per day on mine runs. Plently of down time for the engineers to work on them.
Just like the old JQ 321s going to EFA. They only really fly at night, so they have all day to be worked on.
That’s a lot cheaper than having a brand new aircraft being under-utilised.


Are you under the impression there are engineers available at mine sites to enable dispatch reliability? It seems you think aircraft only have technical faults inbound to a maintenance port?

[drshmoo]

Did anyone protest when the 73s took over some of the mine charter work previously being flown by Network?.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x738/74249e7b_5269_4c85_82ae_38ed14ae5640_120a2cb376a5d1bfa991a93 41da3c948928acdcb.jpeg

[havick]

Are you under the impression there are engineers available at mine sites to enable dispatch reliability? It seems you think aircraft only have technical faults inbound to a maintenance port?

Didn’t you know that aircraft only break inbound MX? They have a sixth sense.

[dr dre]

Did anyone protest when the 73s took over some of the mine charter work previously being flown by Network?


Nope. Mining companies love the 737 and its reliability, ask them what they think of the 320s?

[davidclarke]

Are you under the impression there are engineers available at mine sites to enable dispatch reliability? It seems you think aircraft only have technical faults inbound to a maintenance port?

How is that any different to right now flying old F100s?

New aircraft being under-utilised are not economical.

So there isn’t much option.

[flyingfrenchman]

I agree, it’s exactly the same as the F100 WITH the associated terrible reliability they have.

The problem is that you said it doesn’t matter how reliable they are because:

Plently of down time for the engineers to work on them.

Ask the mine sites how happy they are with poor reliability in their services when they breakdown on site. It’s not just the delays outbound, they block bays and cause congestion on small aprons leading to diversions of following services.

[Green.Dot]

I agree, it’s exactly the same as the F100 WITH the associated terrible reliability they have.

The problem is that you said it doesn’t matter how reliable they are because:



Ask the mine sites how happy they are with poor reliability in their services when they breakdown on site. It’s not just the delays outbound, they block bays and cause congestion on small aprons leading to diversions of following services.

That’s why Gina pays top dollar for a Maggot. No ECAM = No Problem (even though the jet is probably just as cactus) :)

[flyingfrenchman]

6 packs are just as accurate as the ECAM right? 🤣

[Green.Dot]

6 packs are just as accurate as the ECAM right? 🤣

It’s a fine piece of engineering that six pack. You can make it light up when you want or stay in the dark if the situation/location warrants it :ok:

[airdualbleedfault]

You 737 w@nkers make me laugh, flying a 60s technology tractor and still somehow think your crap doesn't stink. You might be the greatest pilots in the world but you certainly are not the smartest.
We flogged much older 320s around SE Asia with barely an unscheduled overnight.
Maybe just once, try and look outside your tiny bubble :ok:

[Green.Dot]

You 737 w@nkers make me laugh, flying a 60s technology tractor and still somehow think your crap doesn't stink. You might be the greatest pilots in the world but you certainly are not the smartest.
We flogged much older 320s around SE Asia with barely an unscheduled overnight.
Maybe just once, try and look outside your tiny bubble :ok:

Settle down old mate, I too would chose to fly an A320 any day of the week over a 737 (if I had the choice). It’s quieter, roomier, better workload distribution between crew, etc, etc.

But I guess at the end of of the day, who cares it’s just an aeroplane- we fly what the airlines tell us to. Shame we all can’t laugh about the differences.

[flyingfrenchman]

You 737 w@nkers make me laugh, flying a 60s technology tractor and still somehow think your crap doesn't stink. You might be the greatest pilots in the world but you certainly are not the smartest.
We flogged much older 320s around SE Asia with barely an unscheduled overnight.
Maybe just once, try and look outside your tiny bubble :ok:

LOL, are you a bit sleep deprived like crew that sleep on couches on unscheduled overnights because there is no engineering support in port?

[Left 270]

Did anyone protest when the 73s took over some of the mine charter work previously being flown by Network?.

This is gold. I would’ve loved to see the responses if they had.

[ShandywithSugar]

Love the digs at Network crew from the usual antiquated mainline blokes, who are seemingly misdirecting their anger and usual bitterness at the wrong people. Referencing facial hair, and referring to them as "try hards".

You blokes have had it too good, for too long. Thankfully your industry relevance is coming to a swift end, and perhaps only then will you realise you were not as great, nor cared about as you tell yourselves.

4th Sept 2019 you wrote in JQ Aus NZ Positions
Internal EOI's went out today for JQ for placements early next year. Fingers crossed this is also extended to external applicants soon.


You mean the credibility and industry relevance that's adorned on your F100s tail and all the perks ...

Why is it popular to grandstand being paid less for doing the same thing ...

[aussieflyboy]

You blokes have had it too good, for too long. Thankfully your industry relevance is coming to a swift end, and perhaps only then will you realise you were not as great, nor cared about as you tell yourselves.

Why would you have a go at another Pilot group for successfully negotiating better terms and conditions then yours?

You should be working hard to ensure your conditions are improved not trying to drag another group down to your level.

[Angle of Attack]

Love the digs at Network crew from the usual antiquated mainline blokes, who are seemingly misdirecting their anger and usual bitterness at the wrong people. Referencing facial hair, and referring to them as "try hards".

You blokes have had it too good, for too long. Thankfully your industry relevance is coming to a swift end, and perhaps only then will you realise you were not as great, nor cared about as you tell yourselves.

Your either a young schmuck or someone with no idea, but I agree that you should re direct your whinges not to your fellow air crew but perhaps the masters that are enslaving you? Once this turns around Network will be like a deer with no eyes, No idea, and no crew...that’s a given.

[dr dre]

Awww sweetie, at what stage of the process did your mainline application fail?

If I was you I’d be pushing for an MOU for mainline positions like the JQ/mainline MOU. It’d be your best chance of flying something other than a clapped out 320.

[Arthur D]

Awww sweetie, at what stage of the process did your mainline application fail?

If I was you I’d be pushing for an MOU for mainline positions like the JQ/mainline MOU. It’d be your best chance of flying something other than a clapped out 320.

As a second officer......

[Capt Fathom]

Because that same pilot group have resorted to verbal (and supposedly physical attacks) on a regional cohort

Physical attacks?

[Chad Gates]

Physical attacks?

I call BS. Compensatory statement to try and justify his/her silly post I’d imagine.

[flyingfrenchman]

Majority of NWK guys/gals over the years are merely happy to have nabbed a jet gig out of GA...

Have they though?

[Blueskymine]

Love the digs at Network crew from the usual antiquated mainline blokes, who are seemingly misdirecting their anger and usual bitterness at the wrong people. Referencing facial hair, and referring to them as "try hards".

You blokes have had it too good, for too long. Thankfully your industry relevance is coming to a swift end, and perhaps only then will you realise you were not as great, nor cared about as you tell yourselves.


Troll alert. Good attempt though.

[John Citizen]

Majority of NWK guys/gals over the years are merely happy to have nabbed a jet gig out of GA...

Have they though?


This is the official CASA definition of General Aviation:

Definitions (https://www.casa.gov.au/standard-page/glossary-terms)


Defined as all non-scheduled flying activity in aircraft allocated a VH registration by CASA, but excluding VH-registered sailplanes (powered and unpowered). Ultralight aircraft, hang gliders and autogyros are also excluded.


I suppose this means a Qantas A380 on a "non-scheduled" flight is also GA :p

[almostthere!]

Because that same pilot group have resorted to verbal (and supposedly physical attacks) such as what exactly? What physical attacks have been perpetrated? Provide evidence if at all possible....

[davidclarke]

Probably just hearsay, but is there any truth to the rumour about a mainline pilot calling a network pilot a “scab” in the Perth staff car park?

I don’t know how I would in that situation, but it wouldn’t be favourably. It has to be one of the most disgusting words I have ever heard.

[SandyPalms]

Probably just hearsay, but is there any truth to the rumour about a mainline pilot calling a network pilot a “scab” in the Perth staff car park?

I don’t know how I would in that situation, but it wouldn’t be favourably. It has to be one of the most disgusting words I have ever heard.

Don't know, and it would be impossible to verify if it did or didn't. It suits the narrative that it did, so therefore to some determined network pilots, it must be true.
The truth is of course, its probably not. Just like all the statements on this site over the years about QF blokes walking past pilots of other airlines and just shunning them in some sort of superiority play. The truth that I've seen is exactly the opposite. But that doesn't suit the narrative of the QF blokes being the bad guys because they get paid more. It actually beggers belief that some on this industry subscribe to that belief. Jealousy I guess, but I can't figure out why anybody in this industry would like to see more lower paid jobs, rather than the opposite. It's crazy.
Thee tall poppy syndrome is alive and well.

[Brakerider]

How many Network, Eastern, Sunstate, Jetstar or Jetconnect pilots have written books about themselves?

[Chad Gates]

Do YouTube channels count?

[blubak]

How many Network, Eastern, Sunstate, Jetstar or Jetconnect pilots have written books about themselves?
Just because 1 person did that,it doesnt mean he has the support or indeed represents the feelings of others he works with(now 'worked with').
You will always find special people popping up when the situation suits.

[Mr Proach]

An unimaginable concept pre 1989

[Lookleft]

The whole industry in Australia would have been unimaginable pre-1989.

[Buttscratcher]

So what's the deal with the 30 or so pilots from Mainline and J* now employed by Network on 18 month contracts?
Apparently, they're still receiving Jobkeeper as well.

[Ski Guru]

You might want to have a good read of exactly how Jobkeeper works if you are questioning what's going on.

[Buttscratcher]

.......and you may want to choke my black rooster!

The above wasn't a question an HTF Jobkeeper works.

[Lookleft]

The deal is they responded to an FSO for LWOP opportunities in Network. They obviously were successful and are now working for Network on the Network EBA. After 18 months they either go back to their respective airlines or stay with Network.

[aussieflyboy]

The deal is they responded to an FSO for LWOP opportunities in Network. They obviously were successful and are now working for Network on the Network EBA. After 18 months they either go back to their respective airlines or stay with Network.

Network is going to be royally in strife in 18 months when everyone goes back to their real jobs.

The smart thing to do would have been offer the Cobham pilots that are being booted from Perth jobs at Network. Being long term Perth residents, many of these blokes will be returning to Perth when pilot job opportunities improve anyway.

[Ski Guru]

.......and you may want to choke my black rooster!

The above wasn't a question an HTF Jobkeeper works.

Maybe it should have been.

[Lookleft]

AFB-The airframes need crewing now by type endorsed pilots.

[aussieflyboy]

AFB-The airframes need crewing now by type endorsed pilots.

The base closure announcement was made in August so the 717 pilots would have been ready to go by now. Now QF are just left with a whole bunch of crew departing NJS as they were not willing to leave Perth or pi55ed off with the company which will hurt at EA Negotiation time.

I’ve heard there are Network crew in Singapore right now doing their type rating on the bus as it was easier to find temporary replacement Fokker crew.

[Lookleft]

So many random thoughts, so little knowledge.

[aseriesofleftturns]

So many random thoughts, so little knowledge.

Feel free to set the record straight!

[Blueskymine]

As a second officer......


With a pay rise.

[Lookleft]

Feel free to set the record straight!

Feel free to read the post at #88.

[Bankstown]

Probably just hearsay, but is there any truth to the rumour about a mainline pilot calling a network pilot a “scab” in the Perth staff car park?

Can’t be sure, but that rumour could have started after an Instagram post that described mainline crew kicking a Network pilot and calling him a scab for wearing his jacket or some such....that was just a story, however distasteful.

[dr dre]

Not aware of the post, and not entirely accurate, but essentially what I alluded to earlier having heard the story from two witnesses. Where's there's smoke..

I doubt it. There’s some mainline pilots who wear jackets on colder mornings, even in summer, so I doubt it.

I’m sure plenty of mainline pilots have walked to and from the carpark alongside Network pilots and have never had anything but a friendly chat, so again circumstantial evidence leads me to believe this situation didn’t happen or was blown out of proportion.

And also leaving out the fact that plenty of NA and mainline pilots are mates outside of work, and plenty have worked in both companies and still have mates in both companies, any notion of a widespread conflict between both groups is false. Anyone trying to stoke tensions should stop.

[Street garbage]

All I can say about most of the posts above..Play the management, not the man...

[FightDeck]

So many petulant child like posts.No wonder the industry is in chaos and groups are played off against one another.
Shameful.

[Buttscratcher]

Dude, you can't really throw a comment like 'So many petulant child like posts....' into the room and expect to be revered as Jesus the almighty thread saviour.
Likewise, 'No wonder the industry is in chaos...... is such a ****ty thing to say, like you're the chosen mediator of all that is good and righteous.
'Shameful'...seriously? Is your comment is in any way helpful or enlightening?

[Half Baked]

Buttscratcher...., maybe, maybe not........

But FightDeck is bang on the money!

Brotherhood of pilots..........my arse!!!!