RAF Pilot First Tour?

[Sky Sports]

What can a newly qualified RAF pilot expect from his first tour?
The lad is prepping for his OASC board and he knows one of the questions asked of him will be, 'What happens on your first tour?' Sensible answers please - and comedy ones, if they are really funny - for all three pilot streams to the following questions, and anything else you can add to;

How many hours will you fly?
Likelihood of a deployment?
Secondary duties?
Typical day on squadron?

Thanks in advance.

[Mach the Knife]

How many hours will you fly? Not enough
Likelihood of a deployment? High but on the ground
Secondary duties? Loads
Typical day on squadron? D&I trg, RAFFT, HF trg, DSI trg, IM passport or any number of other box ticking courses to show how on top of the admin the CO is

On the plus side though the trg pipe line is so long you should be home to spend time with your grand children.

Will still beat working for a living though and I’d still do it all again.

[downsizer]

Why is he not doing the research himself? Genuine question....

[charliegolf]

He just did.

[57mm]

Bearing in mind that in the current regime, you may arrive on your first squadron as much as seven years after joining up; think long and hard if this is worth the time and effort. If you do think it's worth it, go for it, give it your all and I wish you the very best of luck.

[Easy Street]

Personally I'm baffled as to why OASC interviewers would ask such questions. Yes, sure, candidates can show their commitment by having done some research, but I don't think it's fair on some sections of the applicant pool to ask questions like these where research requires access to knowledgeable people through UAS, ATC or personal connections, or enough avgeekery to know about this site. Asking questions where the answer isn't readily available in the public domain gradually starts narrowing the candidate pool down in ways which might not be in our best interests. After all, we can teach people all the service knowledge we want once they're in. And their first Boss and career manager can tell them what's expected of them on their first tour, which might be so far in the future that a great deal could have changed. We can't always teach them other attributes which might have been better screened for at interview.

[muppetofthenorth]

What can a newly qualified RAF pilot expect from his first tour?
The lad is prepping for his OASC board and he knows one of the questions asked of him will be, 'What happens on your first tour?' Sensible answers please - and comedy ones, if they are really funny - for all three pilot streams to the following questions, and anything else you can add to;

How many hours will you fly?
Likelihood of a deployment?
Secondary duties?
Typical day on squadron?

Thanks in advance.
The OASC interview is 12 minutes long. He won't get into any of this detail.

[dctyke]

The OASC interview is 12 minutes long. He won't get into any of this detail.

5 mins if your dads Air Rank ...... 😉

[Bob Viking]

I have to ask, firstly, how does he know these questions will be asked and, secondly, why would the interviewer ask him what the job will entail in such detail? Wouldn’t your lad be there to find out rather than tell the interviewer?!

I’m all for being prepped but maybe he should try to relax instead off trying to have an answer for every conceivable question. They probably want to see the real him not someone who has practiced for an exam.

If the interviewers are worth their salt they will be able to take the interviewee to a subject they are not prepared for and watch him think on his feet.

I realise it is nearly 22 years since my one and only visit to OASC but I didn’t go to UAS (I was an Air Cadet but had left 4 years before OASC), didn’t know anyone who had done the job, hadn’t heard of Pprune and did not obsess over every detail. It seemed to work out fine though.

I wish him luck regardless of what I have said above. Ignore anyone who says it’s not as good as it used to be. If he gets to fly he’ll still have a blast.

BV

[Sky Sports]

The OASC interview is 12 minutes long. He won't get into any of this detail.

He has been on various online forums etc. such as The Student Room and Reddit and there is lots of shared info on there about OASC. He has private messaged a few people who have been on the board in the last 2 months and first tour life is something that is being asked.
It is only 15 minutes long, but it is a very very quick fire interview / quiz.

Thank you to Critical_Al for the detailed ME answer. Just need one for FJ and Rotary now.

[muppetofthenorth]

He has been on various online forums etc. such as The Student Room and Reddit and there is lots of shared info on there about OASC. He has private messaged a few people who have been on the board in the last 2 months and first tour life is something that is being asked.
It is only 15 minutes long, but it is a very very quick fire interview / quiz.

Thank you to Critical_Al for the detailed ME answer. Just need one for FJ and Rotary now.
I'm active on TSR and Reddit. This level of detail is uncommon in the extreme.

There's no way he can know now what amount of hours he'll be flying in ~5-7 yrs time.

Knowing he'll have secondary duties, knowing there'll be some flying, some sim training, some deployments, but all dependant on fleet and political situation, will be sufficient for the 30 seconds he'll have to cover the area if it comes up. He might not even get that question.

Knowing MIOT and training path is more important. Everything else can (and will) change.

[Easy Street]

On further reflection, I wonder whether the intent of such a question would be to ensure that the candidate is fully cognisant that they are likely to be deployed at some point, to ensure that they have their eyes wide open to the lifestyle when joining up. If so, that would be a useful thing to communicate.

As for some of other requested detail, flying hours and types of training are often discussed on here in *general* terms, including by me on another current thread. However, specifics about the type and volume of training being done by particular front line units are potentially sensitive information that shouldn’t be shared, especially on a public forum.

[Union Jack]

On further reflection, I wonder whether the intent of such a question would be to ensure that the candidate is fully cognisant that they are likely to be deployed at some point, to ensure that they have their eyes wide open to the lifestyle when joining up. If so, that would be a useful thing to communicate.



In which case, a quick run through https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/433188-mrs-bloggs-home-etiquette-protocols.html would surely also be advisable....

Jack

[Sideshow Bob]

Has he looked at the pinned thread at the top of the forum? As BV said, it's some time since I went through OASC (24 years ago for me), but I don't remember needing to know this amount of detail. Yes you need to know what the job you are applying for pertains to, and need a good understanding of current affairs, but I doubt they expect him to know all the ins and outs. Do RAF Career Advice Offices still provide practice interviews (do they still exist)? Has he tried contacting a relevant Sqn to see if they will host him for a day (I visited a couple of Sqn's and even managed to bag a few trips on MEs)? What they will be looking for is someone who is proactive in his approach, explaining that you got your info from your dad asking questions on an open forum may not be what they are looking for (they do generally ask what you know and how you know it).

[muppetofthenorth]

Do RAF Career Advice Offices still provide practice interviews (do they still exist)?
Has he tried contacting a relevant Sqn to see if they will host him for a day (I visited a couple of Sqn's and even managed to bag a few trips on MEs)?
In order;
No. Yes (though 99.9% of the application is done online). Not remotely likely these days.

[LS8C1]

Typhoon first tour: expect 500 hours.

You won't come out of the OCU fully combat ready so will be on a work up straight away. Typhoon is a true jack of all trades now so lots of different weapons and skill sets to be learned. It will be busy.
In a three year first tour expect to go to OP SHADER twice for around 2-3 months at a time. Go to the Falklands once or twice for a couple of months at a time. Do an Eastern European Air policing det for a few months. Do an overseas exercise a year (Red / Green Flag / Middle Eastern equivalent).
Whilst in the UK you will be always working toward your next qualification, whether that be pairs lead / 4s lead etc. By the end of 3 years most Junior Pilots will attain a pairs lead with the qualification of being able to instruct Combat Ready work up serials for new guys straight out of the OCU.
You'll sit QRA once or twice a month between sims and live flying.

In Summary, my recently expired 3 year first tour consisted of 11 detachments equating to around 450 days away.
The best and most rewarding flying is done when overseas. In the UK you will be busy working up for your next qual and sitting Q / remaining current for Q. This can be frustrating as all the priority for spare parts etc goes to high priority overseas Exercises / Ops and as a result a lot of training will be done in the sim. Opportunities to take leave will be limited and very much have to fit in with the Squadron's OP / Exercise / QRA plot.
There is a lot of bureaucracy when it comes to online courses etc but you can easily get all these done on your QRA shifts. The same can be said for secondary duties.

Caveat many overseas operations have been curtailed recently due COVID.

[newt]

Just be aware that on the first day the Boss may not be the Boss. At least not until you get to the bar! A spoof on the new boy can take all sorts of different forms. Just be ready 😂😂😂😂

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Just be aware that on the first day the Boss may not be the Boss. At least not until you get to the bar! A spoof on the new boy can take all sorts of different forms. Just be ready 😂😂😂😂
Well he hasn't been to OASC yet so I guess he has a year or so to prepare for that
;-)

[Sky Sports]

Thank you LS8C1 :ok:

With regard to the depth of knowledge required, the simple answer is that there is no 'end stop' to the knowledge that a candidate can have. With the new 'quick fire' interview they will ask a question on a subject and if you know the answer, they ask another slightly more in depth question and so on until the candidate says, 'I'm sorry, I don't know that'. They then change the subject and repeat the process. One recent candidate who answered every first tour question asked of him then started getting questions about 2nd tour and IOD courses!

[Bob Viking]

With regard to the quoted candidate the big question is, did he get in?

Being a poindexter and answering a bunch of (seemingly) esoteric questions won’t necessarily guarantee success of course.

I’m glad your son wants to be prepared (although getting Dad to do the donkey work doesn’t show a huge amount of initiative) but just remind him that the interview is one short part of the process.

Anyway, assuming the process hasn’t changed markedly he should enjoy it in a perverse way.

BV

[MMHendrie1]

On a lighter note, pupils in my son's class were asked to write a short story entitled A Typical Day at Brüggen. This was his offering (he was 10): 06:30 A nasty noise coming from mum and dads bedroom - an alarm clock go’s off, dad struggles to turn it off before mum (code name old nag) wakes up. Then he washes, shaves and gets dressed in 30 seconds. Then rushes out of the house to try and catch the squadron transport, but he’d missed it. He jumps on his bike and pedals furiously so not to be late for the 07:00 brief. Then it starts to rain - another typical day at Brüggen.

07:00 Arrives at the squadron to get met brief – they said ‘it won’t rain today.’

07:15 Starts the plan for the sortie. Four aircraft to Northern Germany.

09:15 Finish plan for sortie go to briefing room to brief sortie briefing lasts half an hour.

09:45 Going to ops room, the engineers say ‘the planes are not ready yet.’ Typical.

10:00 Going to planes Alf the driver says ‘Mind your head sir.’

10:30 Take off. Fly mission, mission success on the way home it rains!

12:15 Land Tornado still serviceable. Surprise surprise!

12:40 Back at the squadron for the debrief last 30 mins then looks at film. Dad says ‘The target must have moved, it’s not on my film!’ Typical!

13:30 Five minute lunch break in the crew room. Go back to office to do some paper work, mostly rubbish. Typical.

15:00 A short coffee, back into the office more paper work.

16:00 Look at copy of tomorrows flying ‘why am I not on it.’

17:00 Go home and it’s still raining.

That was 34-years ago. It still makes me smile.

[sharpend]

If it is anything like my first tour (at Akrotiri), I did little work, heaps of great flying, more money than I knew what to do with, everything cheap. weather fantastic, in short a great flying club. Think the RAF may have changed a bit. :)

[Gordon Brown]

A little while ago I applied to rejoin the RAF and went through the OASC process. (Sadly, I wasn't allowed to even look in the hangar at the leadership tests). Two things surprised me during the day of my visit. The first one was the number of candidates that could not pass the fitness test.

The second was the lameness of the questions during the interview:

"Why did you want to join the RAF?"

"What, the first time round?"

"Yes" ie not "Why should we have you back?"

...and "Do you know what aircraft the RAF operates in the ISTAR role?"

Maybe it was because they wanted my skillset back in the Service, so I got an easy ride!

....So make sure that you can pass the RAFFT!

[BEagle]

Think the RAF may have changed a bit.

Fortunately you haven't, bluntie me old!!

[The...Bird]

Typhoon first tour: expect 500 hours.

You won't come out of the OCU fully combat ready so will be on a work up straight away. Typhoon is a true jack of all trades now so lots of different weapons and skill sets to be learned. It will be busy.
In a three year first tour expect to go to OP SHADER twice for around 2-3 months at a time. Go to the Falklands once or twice for a couple of months at a time. Do an Eastern European Air policing det for a few months. Do an overseas exercise a year (Red / Green Flag / Middle Eastern equivalent).
Whilst in the UK you will be always working toward your next qualification, whether that be pairs lead / 4s lead etc. By the end of 3 years most Junior Pilots will attain a pairs lead with the qualification of being able to instruct Combat Ready work up serials for new guys straight out of the OCU.
You'll sit QRA once or twice a month between sims and live flying.

In Summary, my recently expired 3 year first tour consisted of 11 detachments equating to around 450 days away.
The best and most rewarding flying is done when overseas. In the UK you will be busy working up for your next qual and sitting Q / remaining current for Q. This can be frustrating as all the priority for spare parts etc goes to high priority overseas Exercises / Ops and as a result a lot of training will be done in the sim. Opportunities to take leave will be limited and very much have to fit in with the Squadron's OP / Exercise / QRA plot.
There is a lot of bureaucracy when it comes to online courses etc but you can easily get all these done on your QRA shifts. The same can be said for secondary duties.

Caveat many overseas operations have been curtailed recently due COVID.

Op Shader in 6 years time?

I've also heard the complete opposite to a lot of this, 250 hours if you're lucky and that's flying very infrequently, with a lot of time in the sim rather than live flying. Same applies to F35 but even less hours.

[sharpend]

Fortunately you haven't, bluntie me old!!
Indeed so. As for first tours, I had a great time in the '60s. Here is a bit from my book about my first day on my first tour: 'Of course, in 1967, I was the proverbial ‘Innocent Abroad’ and completely gullible. Having disembarked from the Britannia, I was met by two young pilots from my new squadron who handed me a note from the squadron commander. The note explained that promotion exams were being held that very day in the base education centre and that, as I was likely to be away on detachment when the subsequent exams were next held, my young navigator and I should sit those exams that very day. We fell for the jape, hook line and sinker. However, as I had absolutely no idea of even the syllabus let along had done any study, I politely declined what I thought was the first order from my boss.

But the jape continued!

After dropping our bags off at the squadron domestic accommodation (all the operational squadrons, of which there were many, lived in purpose built brick accommodation blocks), we were driven down to our new squadron to meet the key personnel. First to greet us was the squadron ‘Roman Catholic padre’ who ushered us into the squadron ‘chapel’ and proceeded to insist that we signed for our own personal bibles! We started to smell a rat when we noticed a number of handmade posters on the wall stating certain quotation such as ‘Cursed are those who land wheels up’ and ‘Navigators, know thee the way of the Lord’

Following that, we were then taken to the squadron crew room where we came across aircrew playing board games, dressed in winter greatcoats, surrounded by paraffin heaters which had raised the temperature to well in excess of the outside, which already was touching 40 deg. By then both my navigator and I smelt more than a rat.

That evening we attended a dinner in our honour and I was surprised to spot the ‘RC Padre’ smooching with a lady… The penny then finally dropped.'

[Brian 48nav]

sharpend,


I enjoyed that! Was it the Canberra wing in Akrotiri per chance? 4 guys from my nav' course were posted there in late '67, Bill Gault, Nick Morgan are the only names I'm sure of, the others may have been Tony McNichol and Pete Gallagher. 2 more went to join the 2 Canberra squadrons at Tengah.

No such jolly japes on the Herc' squadron at Changi that 2 of us joined! We were a staid lot in the transport world!

[frodo_monkey]

Op Shader in 6 years time?

I've also heard the complete opposite to a lot of this, 250 hours if you're lucky and that's flying very infrequently, with a lot of time in the sim rather than live flying. Same applies to F35 but even less hours.

Thats 500hrs over a tour not annually, which seems about right. I averaged 250 annually on GR4 which included a lot of SHADER time at circa 75hrs/month.

It may not be SHADER in six years time but fairly naive to assume Op ‘x’ won’t pop up in its place.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Thats 500hrs over a tour not annually, which seems about right. I averaged 250 annually on GR4 which included a lot of SHADER time at circa 75hrs/month.

It may not be SHADER in six years time but fairly naive to assume Op ‘x’ won’t pop up in its place.

Someone very close to me is about to do SHADER. Seven years between walking through the gates at Dartmouth. An intructional tour after Valley and a "nationality" faff made plans change. So maybe a hassle free path could see SHADER in 5 years, with regular recurrence thereafter.