Linton on Ouse : The end of an era

[David Thompson]

The Yorkshire Universities Air Squadron left their home at Linton this morning to take up residency just up the road at Leeming were they will join the already incumbent Northumbrian Universities Air Squadron . The departure of YUAS brings to a close over 80 years of operational flying from Linton with a NOTAM issued today of an airfield closure notice and the station well into its eventual drawdown at the end of 2021 . Very sad times indeed . Some details here ;
https://twitter.com/RAFLintonOnOuse
and
https://www.facebook.com/raf.leeming/

[LateArmLive]

Sad news- some of my happiest days in the RAF were spent at Linton.

[ShyTorque]

Sad to see another great airfield close. I went through BFTS there in 77/8 when the dispersal was a sea of red and white Jet Provosts.

My youngest was a member of YUAS only a couple of years ago and for a while she lived in the west wing of the Officers’ Mess, as I had done. I helped her move in. On arrival at the rear door she had forgotten the combination to the push button door lock. Almost without thinking I pressed the buttons and opened the door. Same combination forty years on!

Leeming is a very long way north, especially bearing in mind that YUAS’s earlier home was Finningley. Cadets travelling from Leeds are going to find that journey even more inconvenient.

Maybe they should rename it OJIYUAS - Only Just In Yorkshire UAS.

[Bob Viking]

Whilst I share your sadness at the closure of LOO and acknowledge that Leeming is far less convenient for York based students you can hardly say that Leeming is only just in Yorkshire. In fact it is almost the geographic centre!

BV

[typerated]

Whilst I share your sadness at the closure of LOO and acknowledge that Leeming is far less convenient for York based students you can hardly say that Leeming is only just in Yorkshire. In fact it is almost the geographic centre!

BV

I was thinking you are geographically challenged - must be a Nav in disguise!

Surely Leeming is way to the north of the centre

But then I google mapped it and saw you are spot on!

[Bob Viking]

That’s why I googled it myself before posting. Never assume...

BV

[Training Risky]

Great days at Linton. We JEFTS lot lived in Hornet Block if memory serves correctly.

Some good biking trails in the bondu around the airfield.

Well done Royal Air Wing of 2020...:=

[99 Change Hands]

Geographic centre? Really?
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/623x494/leeming_18c2de1b640516deb6d42de08c96faad0d092143.jpg
Of course, I'm just a Nav.

[Bob Viking]

Anything South of York doesn’t really count.

BV

[madhon]

My Grandad was based there in WW2 with the Canadian Air Force, as an engineer for the Halifax bombers, saw a lot of crews off, not so many returning. He also received his medals from the station commander there couple of years before he died, after having not received them when he finished serving, no idea who it was who presented them, but could upload the picture if asked for.

[Green Flash]

Monday 13th August 1979, 09.30, I arrived at Linton to start a near 41 year career with the MOD in various guises. :ok:

[spekesoftly]

Is there any news on what has happened to the contents of the excellent Memorial Room at Linton on Ouse?

[skua]

I was just thinking the same, SpekeSoftly. It was run by a most knowledgeable and enthusiastic chap 5 or so years back.

[spekesoftly]

I remember the gentleman well Skua - Wing Commander (Retired) Alan Mawby. Some years ago he was kind enough to arrange a visit for myself, my wife, and my late mother whose first husband's Lancaster Mk11 failed to return to Linton from a bombing raid in 1943.

I've since found the following link which (sadly) answers my question:-

https://35squadron.wordpress.com/2018/01/23/linton-on-ouse-memorial-room/

[ShyTorque]

Anything South of York doesn’t really count.

BV

It does if you’re at Sheffield or Hull University. More difficult to get from there for a student who isn’t lucky enough to have access to a private car. My daughter struggled even to get from Leeds to Linton in time for Friday evening town nights.

[Dominator2]

I also recall great days at Linton when in 1972 it was by far and away the Premier BFTS. The staff student relationship was at the forefront of a new era. Just imagine being permitted to be in the bar in the Officers Mess until 19.00. Indeed, it was almost a parade for all aviators on the Station, a different era from today! Very sad that a station with such a great tradition has gone.

Come on pilots, don't let a Navigator correct us pilots on a point of navigation. Who ever thinks that Leeming is in the center of Yorkshire needs a new map. It is in the center of North Yorkshire, however Linton is far more central to the whole county. I recall how my friends who were posted to Leeming for BFTS complained how lucky we were to be 20 minutes from York. Of course in those days the attractions of Newcastle and Durham were not quite the same!

[Tankertrashnav]

I remember when Alan Mawby joined 214 as a captain on Victor tankers. On his first flight with his new crew he had put his co-pilot through his paces, making him work harder than perhaps he had been used to. In the crewroom afterwards the chap remarked (jovially) "our new captain is a bully". Tom Brown's Schooldays was being shown in TV at the time, so Alan was promptly nicknamed "Flashman" , which stuck while he remained on 214.

Really nice chap though, good pilot, and I was always very happy flying with him.

[staircase]

I was house member at one time, and well remember a large amount of 'art' in the mess loft. Going back a couple of years ago, I noticed that all the drawings of past aircrew that lined the corridors were missing. I wonder if they are now in the loft as well.

It would be a terrible shame if no one has thought to go and look.

It was some of the most memorable two years of my career, made more so by those two wonderful summers of 74 and 75.

[teeteringhead]

Along with - I guess - a relatively small number, I was commissioned there in 1968. What was ITS moved from South Cerney to Linton as AOTS (Aircrew Officer Training School) for a short-ish while before (I think) combining with the ground pounders at Henlow (?) as OCTU.

So different then (indicator of old git); to think we were turning out 30 or 40 commissioned pilots and navs every 5 weeks! And that was just the "gutter entry", not counting the General List RAFC Cranwell Flight Cadets!

[spekesoftly]

AOTS also spent a short period (1968 - 1969?) at Church Fenton. I remember it well!

[pr00ne]

I recall that when NUAS moved from Ouston to Leeming there were similar howls from the students and instructors that they were now too far away from their Universities.

So, we now have NUAS too far south and YUAS too far north...

[oldbeefer]

AOTS also spent a short period (1968 - 1969?) at Church Fenton. I remember it well!
Indeed - I joined there on 1 Apr 1968 - 50th anniversary of the formation of the RAF and, incidentally, April Fool's Day!

[ChrisVJ]

Shytorque
"My youngest was a member of YUAS only a couple of years ago and for a while she lived in the west wing of the Officers’ Mess, as I had done. I helped her move in. On arrival at the rear door she had forgotten the combination to the push button door lock. Almost without thinking I pressed the buttons and opened the door. Same combination forty years on!"

Love, love, love it!

[teeteringhead]

Apologies for the "brain fart" about AOTS and Linton. It was of course Church Fenton! Doh! (other training bases in Yorkshire are available....)

It's an age thing you know - why did I come into the study?

My (very slight) justification is that I went on to fly my Chipmunk Course at Linton rather than CF. But that's another story.......

[JTIDS]

It does if you’re at Sheffield or Hull University. More difficult to get from there for a student who isn’t lucky enough to have access to a private car. My daughter struggled even to get from Leeds to Linton in time for Friday evening town nights.

From Sheffield it takes 20 min longer to get to Leeming than the over an hour that the NUAS students have been coping with from Newcastle for over 20 years. I’m sure transport will be arranged.

[ShyTorque]

From Sheffield it takes 20 min longer to get to Leeming than the over an hour that the NUAS students have been coping with from Newcastle for over 20 years. I’m sure transport will be arranged.

Twenty minutes longer up the A1 by road from the south, yes but as I mentioned, many students don’t have their own transport. RAF road transport to be provided from Sheffield and Hull? I hope you are right; that would be useful but the road transport for Linton (civilian driver) ran to and from York station. My daughter had Friday lectures till 17:00 in Leeds which meant she was often late.

[Oscar Charlie 192]

My Grandad was based there in WW2 with the Canadian Air Force, as an engineer for the Halifax bombers, saw a lot of crews off, not so many returning. He also received his medals from the station commander there couple of years before he died, after having not received them when he finished serving, no idea who it was who presented them, but could upload the picture if asked for.

As was my maternal Grandfather, but as a M.o.D. Plod.

[beamer]

Spent all of 1979 there on the JP 3/5 - happy times.

Is it my imagination or was there a diy bowling lane in the roof of the O's Mess which had been there since the war ?

[LateArmLive]

Spent all of 1979 there on the JP 3/5 - happy times.

Is it my imagination or was there a diy bowling lane in the roof of the O's Mess which had been there since the war ?

Yes there was/is! That place was a bit of a rabbit warren if you knew where to look.

On a slightly related note - are there any good (FJ flying) RAF bases left these days? Linton, close to York with all its delights. St Mawgan, beautiful scenery, surf and the feeling of being "overseas". Wittering/Cottesmore, Stamford and all its fine pubs and restaurants. Even Colt was good in small doses if you could put up with the locals! Leuchars was great for golf and not too far from Embra.

Lossie is still a great (albeit Marmite) location. Never like Marham or Coningsby much - too flat and boring. I suppose being close to Lincoln was an upside. Y Fali... yep, still there.

Sorry - feeling nostalgic for what was still there about a decade ago...

[ex-fast-jets]

Thread Drift........

You didn't mention Chivenor - the finest Station that should never, ever have been closed.

If the RAF is destined only to have one operational base - Chivenor should have been it.

Nevermind QRA and other trivial requirements.

[Sleeve Wing]

I arrived there on frosty evening in January, 1962, after driving up from Devon.
I was on the Royal Navy's 102 Fixed Wing course to fly, first, the JP3 and then the Vampire
The Commanding Officer was a BoB Hurricane pilot named Grp.Cpt.John L.W.Ellacombe.DFC and Bar.RAF.
If you want any incentive to work your guts out, try having such an example as your CO.
Even the CFI, Tommy Blackham, had an exemplary career as a Bomber pilot. Fantastic encouragement, even for one of the dark blue persuasion !
What more could you ask ?
Linton was a legendary station, as was Church Fenton then, buzzing continuously with a great bunch of "studes" and instructors, which made for a superb introduction to any flying career.
I was proudly wearing my Wings after just thirteen months, fully equipped to go straight on to the Hunter.
Fifteen years later a fellow course member even went back as CO of the RNEFTS, part of the Linton "clutch" under Tom Eeles. It doesn't get better than that.
Subsequently, after nearly 60 years, I have managed to track down my first instructor who had a very necessary, disciplined influence on a bit of a wild, mouthy kid !
22 and a half thousand hours later, I have no doubt what the Linton effect did for me.

And now they've closed it............
Does any one at MOD actually realise what they've done ?

[ShyTorque]

Does anyone at MOD actually care? :(

[Mach2]

Very sad to see it go. I spent nearly 4 years at Linton as a QFI from 1974-78, on 2 Sqn and Standards. My second favourite tour ( the best was Cyprus, and hard to beat) :)

[ICM]

Now well into retirement, I'm sorry to see another station close, one that played a part in my decision to join the Service. After doing OASC in 1963, I had an offer to train as a Nav and it arrived near simultaneously with another commercial offer. For various reasons I took the latter and found myself in York, where the constant noise of Linton's JP 3s was part of the daily background and a reminder that maybe I'd done the wrong thing. I got involved as a civilian Instructor with a local ATC squadron and, probably the last straw, one day in town bumped into a chap on my syndicate at Biggin, then in pilot training. Net result was an inquiry as to whether that Nav offer still stood - it did, and in August 1964 I reported to South Cerney and have never regretted all that followed.

[MMHendrie1]

This marks a sad end to another of the RAF’s historic stations.

The battle to retain Linton, if there ever was one, was lost long ago.

But surely a greater effort could have been made by the RAF to preserve something of the history of this important station, and its satellites, that was enshrined in Linton-on-Ouse’s Memorial Room?

What price preserving in a single location the unique exhibits that are such a fitting testament to the RAF and the RCAF in North Yorkshire? The cost would have been tiny.

Has the RAF lost its soul?

Shame on the RAF.

[Arclite01]

There are very few people in the RAF that care about history nowadays.

There is no-one in the MOD who cares a jot about history.

It's all about the money and personal political agendas.

All very sad.

Arc

[1.3VStall]

I blame the fun detectors, whose sole agenda is to close stations in nice locations, where people are enjoying life, and leave the RAF with stations in bleak locations - Coningsby, Lossiemouth and Marham spring to mind. When you think back to the many stations we once had in lovely areas it brings tears to the eyes of an old man like me. How's about Abingdon, Bassingbourn, Chivenor, Coltishall, Gaydon, Little Rissington, Lyneham, St Mawgan and Thorney Island to name but a few? Not forgetting, of course all the Vale of York stations, which will shortly become another memory.

[76fan]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1800x1189/img087_8ed05834debfbb47871fc423740f7859cf854b7c.jpg
Linton JP line, early 1965. Apologies for the quality of the photograph.

[pr00ne]

Sleeve Wing,

​​​​​​"And now they've closed it............
Does any one at MOD actually realise what they've done ?"

ShyTorque,

​​​​​​Does anyone at MOD actually care?

Er, why on earth should they care? The RAF has closed an airfield for which they no longer have a need, one of many that they have closed over the years.

[ShyTorque]

Sleeve Wing,

​​​​​​"And now they've closed it............
Does any one at MOD actually realise what they've done ?"

ShyTorque,

​​​​​​Does anyone at MOD actually care?

Er, why on earth should they care? The RAF has closed an airfield for which they no longer have a need, one of many that they have closed over the years.

Er, I never actually said they should.

[pr00ne]

ShyTorque,

Fair enough!

[Green Flash]

Do we know what its fate is? Army? Wasn't the land owned originally by Oxford University? (hence the pub name)

[muppetofthenorth]

Do we know what its fate is? Army? Wasn't the land owned originally by Oxford University? (hence the pub name)
The Army are mostly moving out of York too.
​​​​​​2000 years as a garrison town soon to end.

​

[ShyTorque]

We no longer need military power. If there’s any trouble with a potential invader we can get a lawyer such as Sir Keir Starmer to send them a snotty letter.

[Bob Viking]

Gents (I assume) can you hear yourselves?!

Many of us loved Linton on Ouse but the defence budget will only stretch so far.

If you were CAS/CDS/1SL or even MOD and you were faced with the decision between keeping a base open for pure sentimentality or spending money on actual capability what the hell would you do? What the hell should you do?!

Of course it’s a shame that a base like LOO (insert the name of any other of your favourite stations here) has closed. But what option is there?

Many of our bases were compulsorily purchased or requisitioned during a time of war. How can we expect to justify keeping dozens of bases open just because someone once served there and really liked it?!

Please, wipe the tears away and just accept it. Either that or petition the government (and by definition the populace of the UK) for billions in extra money so we can hang onto things that we have no real reason for keeping.

Jeez.

BV

[Herod]

I have to agree with you Bob. It's sad, but earlier generations probably felt the same way about wartime bases. They just didn't have the talk facilities we have. It would, however, be nice to know that important relics are being preserved for posterity. Anyway, it wasn't a "proper" FTS. Says he, who trained at Syerston. :)

[ShyTorque]

Maybe there’s scope for a few more military redundancies.

[Odanrot]

I have to agree with you Bob. It's sad, but earlier generations probably felt the same way about wartime bases. They just didn't have the talk facilities we have. It would, however, be nice to know that important relics are being preserved for posterity. Anyway, it wasn't a "proper" FTS. Says he, who trained at Syerston. :)

Syerston 68 - great place.
The main driver in decisions concerning real estate is money. I know I wrote the the papers that informed those decisions nearly 30 years ago. The high-priced-help just want the savings and they want them made on their watch. The argument to close/ keep Leeming in the mid 90s was a close run thing, the savings were then £40m a year, the cost of a MOB in those days. The reason it survived was, that with all the other planned closures, Leeming was the only 7500 ft RW with a cable between Coningsby and Leuchars. No one else had thought of that and a few people were rather grateful in later years.

Perhaps it was because I needed it a few years before.

[Fortissimo]

Leeming staying open was indeed a close call. I remember the papers and also recall pointing out to the VSO who would make the decision that the runway was one of the very few in the UK that pointed N-S and that its proximity to LFA 17 meant it had already saved many damaged or otherwise sick aircraft that would not have made it as far as another airfield.

Linton had a cable for a while (85 or 86, I think), while Leeming was being resurfaced for the F3. I ended up writing a decision-making flow chart to guide the duty staff through managing a cable engagement - the execs were all non-FJ and hadn't realised the runway would be unavailable (BLACK) for the period between rigging/supporting and clearing the aircraft from the cable, so possibly 15-30 mins, during which time they would have to deal with all the aircraft now running out of fuel, including solo students (divert or hold?). The JP wasn't cleared to trample cables at speed.

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

........during which time they would have to deal with all the aircraft now running out of fuel, including solo students (divert or hold?).

But with 3 RLGs available (TP, DH, CF) within spitting distance, with which the students would (or should!) have been intimately familiar.

[spekesoftly]

Linton had a cable for a while (85 or 86, I think), while Leeming was being resurfaced .....

Linton also had a cable some ten years earlier when it temporarily took over Leeming's MDA commitment while it was closed for resurfacing. Staff from Leeming were detached to Linton to enable it to remain open 24/7. At that time (mid 1970s) Elvington was also an RLG, in addition to those already mentioned.

[flighthappens]

Leeming staying open was indeed a close call. I remember the papers and also recall pointing out to the VSO who would make the decision that the runway was one of the very few in the UK that pointed N-S and that its proximity to LFA 17 meant it had already saved many damaged or otherwise sick aircraft that would not have made it as far as another airfield.

Linton had a cable for a while (85 or 86, I think), while Leeming was being resurfaced for the F3. I ended up writing a decision-making flow chart to guide the duty staff through managing a cable engagement - the execs were all non-FJ and hadn't realised the runway would be unavailable (BLACK) for the period between rigging/supporting and clearing the aircraft from the cable, so possibly 15-30 mins, during which time they would have to deal with all the aircraft now running out of fuel, including solo students (divert or hold?). The JP wasn't cleared to trample cables at speed.

In a pinch could they have landed long over the cable (before the emergency aircraft ended up in it)?

[Addlepate]

Can't claim to have been at Linton, just had mates there, and I can't comment on the rights and wrongs of closing it. All I can say is I always felt very welcome when visiting, and Linton's somehow always been part of my life and always there; I feel quite sad (and very old) seeing it go.

[AdrianShaftsworthy]

Aaah Linton. 1980. Anyone remember a certain course car nicknamed the ‘Deathmobile’? A lurid blue Ford Zephyr 6 decorated with Russian stars and ejection seat stickers. Most noticeable was its outrageous air horn so loud that Harry the Staish demanded the air horn motor be on his desk one morning before allowing the cars ‘owners’ to continue with their flying training. It was even banned from the station at one point until it appeared as a Gate guardian’ in the field next to the main gate, a field shared with the Staish’s daughters horse! Unfortunately the word was passed on to Valley and the car was banned before it even arrived on Anglesey. Now resides at the bottom of a cliff in the oggin somewhere north of Vally. Happy days!

[[email protected]]

Now resides at the bottom of a cliff in the oggin somewhere north of Vally. Happy days! Hmmm - wonder if it is what gave Crash Car Gully its name - an area used for SAR training at SARTU for many years. It was called that when I went through as a student in 83 and taught there in 89.

[Green Flash]

Leeming staying open was indeed a close call. I remember the papers and also recall pointing out to the VSO who would make the decision that the runway was one of the very few in the UK that pointed N-S and that its proximity to LFA 17 meant it had already saved many damaged or otherwise sick aircraft that would not have made it as far as another airfield.

Linton had a cable for a while (85 or 86, I think), while Leeming was being resurfaced for the F3. I ended up writing a decision-making flow chart to guide the duty staff through managing a cable engagement - the execs were all non-FJ and hadn't realised the runway would be unavailable (BLACK) for the period between rigging/supporting and clearing the aircraft from the cable, so possibly 15-30 mins, during which time they would have to deal with all the aircraft now running out of fuel, including solo students (divert or hold?). The JP wasn't cleared to trample cables at speed.

I saw an F3 (I think) take the cable at Linton one day. Not sure if it was real or a practise to test the newly installed rig but it was quite spectacular to see. I think the idea was for any stude JPs to bolt for Fenton or Dishforth pronto with the option for the short runway if an Instructor?

[Green Flash]

The Army are mostly moving out of York too.
​​​​​​2000 years as a garrison town soon to end.

​

That is sad news motn.

I was born opposite Fulford barracks and spent my first 9 years at Strensall (no connection to the military at the time). I can see Fulford freeing up some prime real estate (£££'s). Presume they are keeping Strensall?

[Peter Carter]

11 Course - graduated Feb '71 at LO.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1242/11cse_d3ae9cda818007288610de185415af677badd073.jpg

[Hueymeister]

Wonder if the tower ghost will move to Leeming too....?

[tramontana]

That is sad news motn.

I was born opposite Fulford barracks and spent my first 9 years at Strensall (no connection to the military at the time). I can see Fulford freeing up some prime real estate (£££'s). Presume they are keeping Strensall?
Not unless you want a Concrete Submarine in the garden.

[dctyke]

That is sad news motn.

I was born opposite Fulford barracks and spent my first 9 years at Strensall (no connection to the military at the time). I can see Fulford freeing up some prime real estate (£££'s). Presume they are keeping Strensall?

As a young lad in the 60s I spent most of my time wandering strensall common looking for munitions left behind by the army. It was amazing the stuff abandoned. No surprise I joined the RAF as an armourer. Really sad about Linton, however the same arguments were made at seven of the bases that I served at that are now long gone. Time moves on I guess.

[pr00ne]

That is sad news motn.

I was born opposite Fulford barracks and spent my first 9 years at Strensall (no connection to the military at the time). I can see Fulford freeing up some prime real estate (£££'s). Presume they are keeping Strensall?



Strensall closes in 2024.

[tramontana]

Strensall closes in 2024.
Plenty of time for gov.uk to do yet another U turn or are they moving to Linton? Can’t see Catterick taking anymore👍😘

[muppetofthenorth]

That is sad news motn.

I was born opposite Fulford barracks and spent my first 9 years at Strensall (no connection to the military at the time). I can see Fulford freeing up some prime real estate (£££'s). Presume they are keeping Strensall?
Nope. I grew up there, under Linton's flight paths, and it's off too.

Still, the officer's houses will be snapped up quickly on the open market.

[EESDL]

I suppose the closure will give the farmer time to fix the wall/barrier at 'ab-initio corner'..........

[ShyTorque]

Wonder if the tower ghost will move to Leeming too....?

I doubt it, he was supposedly exorcised some years ago. :cool:

https://youtu.be/EMJ7y4MF7Hk

[pr00ne]

Plenty of time for gov.uk to do yet another U turn or are they moving to Linton? Can’t see Catterick taking anymore👍😘


Alas, no plans for moves even exist yet. Like so many of the 90 odd sites listed for closure in the "A Better Defence Estate" announcement and document, the units currently stationed at Strensall will move to 'a location to be determined by further work study.'

[Addlepate]

What are the plans with Linton? Is it moving to care and maintenance while they decide what to do with it (sell, Army, housing estate, whatever), or am I out of date? I can't find any references newer than 2019.

[Fortissimo]

I saw an F3 (I think) take the cable at Linton one day. Not sure if it was real or a practise to test the newly installed rig but it was quite spectacular to see. I think the idea was for any stude JPs to bolt for Fenton or Dishforth pronto with the option for the short runway if an Instructor?

It's a long time ago, but I think I included the option for studes to use the short provided they were cleared and the X-wind was in limits; priority was always to deal with solo studes, balancing remaining fuel and experience levels. Staff could be held to PLE if necessary and there was a separate issue with crash cover, the fire crews being required for the cable engagement and subsequent rewind. The cable was a PAAG, so definitely a temporary installation.

Still, the officer's houses will be snapped up quickly on the open market.

Possibly, assuming Annington Homes puts them on the market rather than re-developing. When the Joint staff college moved out of Bracknell, the whole site was bulldozed and the developer then crammed in 3 x the number of houses (maybe more). A developer friend once told me that once you have cleared land with planning permission, access roads and utilities on site, every 3rd house you build is straight profit.

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

Well, whoever waxed the place and surrounding villages this morning at 1105 ish at 2000 ft with some 2 axis manoeuvring- DAMN WELL DONE! That woke everyone up from their first lockdown 3 lay-in! More please!

[Green Flash]

D.M-L - there's a Hunter out of Scampton overhead Ripon southbound just now!

[mopardave]

D.M-L - there's a Hunter out of Scampton overhead Ripon southbound just now!
I live just south of Leeming right on the extended centre line. I thought I was seeing things........I was sure it was a Hunter but you've confirmed it now. Had a very unusual paint job. Anyway, nice to see.

[Green Flash]

I live just south of Leeming right on the extended centre line. I thought I was seeing things........I was sure it was a Hunter but you've confirmed it now. Had a very unusual paint job. Anyway, nice to see.
Didn't see it in the flesh mopardave, caught it on ADSB

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

Flew over me near Ripon...


Should see more of it too these next two months as it is working with Leeming on trials.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1957x952/hunt_b3a1749c8ebe2340d9fcbe58a01608c49a8bcb75.jpg

[Fareastdriver]

According to UK Serials XE688 was an F4 and was scrapped in 1961.

[SATCOS WHIPPING BOY]

According to UK Serials XE688 was an F4 and was scrapped in 1961.
An interesting bit of info here: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/239845

[41plus]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1460x2000/77_course_graduation_4fts_0f3d23420f5e42fdd7d5effda7e5cfcbc7 0b9841.jpg
This would be the official photo, taken of, I seem to recall. 77 cse in 1977

[ShyTorque]

41plus,

Is that 17 Course.....it can’t have been 77. I should have with them because I went through Henlow IOT with most of that bunch! However, I was sent off to hold for some months at the Buccaneer OCU, possibly because my surname is near the end of the alphabet (and what an unhappy intro to RAF Service that was...:(). I eventually did my time on 22 Cse.

Tragically, two of these chaps were killed in flying accidents on their first tour. RIP John Cathie (4th from left) who died in a Jaguar/Jaguar mid air in Germany and Steve Belcher (far right) who died in a very unlucky Nimrod crash after it suffered multiple bird strikes during the take off roll at Kinloss.

[57mm]

IIRC, 22 Course had a student by the name of Richard Head......remember him from the ordeal of deciphering the Met Circle at morning Met Brief.......

[ShyTorque]

57mm, He was definitely not on 22 Cse.

[idle stop]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1361/linton_no_8_course_ibfts_july_1976_d780900bc006eda099c0cb6b5 01cfa8bacdaa7bf.jpg
Linton No 8 IBFTS July 1976
End of JP5a phase, and off to pastures new. The Interim Basic Flying Training Course was a notional 100 hrs JP3a, Wings awarded with big Parade and Ball. Our Ball really was a big do in April 1976 as it coincided with a reunion bash of a RCAF wartime Stirling Sqn that had been based at LOO. I think that was when the CFI's mini ended up somehow by the ornamental ponds behind the Mess Dining Room! Then it was on to a notional 60 hrs in the JP5a. 'Notional' because the courses were designed to have Sim time, but the Sims did not exist until we were just leaving. So extra real hours! There are a couple of stragglers in this photo from 7 Course.
L-R: Connolly, Cocks (7) Butler, Hirst, Reviewing Officer(?), Al-Said (7), Barrett, Barter, Spencer (7).
If anybody knows whereabouts of any of these desperados, please PM me!

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Is that 17 Course.....
No, it definitely ain't - and I should know :ok:

[ShyTorque]

No, it definitely ain't - and I should know :ok:

So, it will have to be a slow process of elimination..... :p

[Mushroom_2]

So, it will have to be a slow process of elimination..... :p

It's not 20 course.

[41plus]

Hi, I posted the picture by the gate guardian earlier - it was a scan of a the official end-of-course photo and the only info I could see was on the file title. I've had a root around and found the actual photo- it was taken on 18 May 1978. No course No though.

Yes, within two years of the photo John C and Steve B had been killed in accidents - and so had a couple of our instructors. . .

[tramontana]

Hello idle stop, who is the well decorated chap in the middle and what was his background. Thank You.

[ShyTorque]

If it was end of course, it could be 21 course.

IIRC, The last course to be awarded flying badges after BFTS was 15 Cse, guest of honour being Sir Douglas Bader. After that, the “wings” parades were delayed until after AFTS. Apparently, the “chop rate” after BFTS was deemed to be too high.

[teeteringhead]

The last RN unit to leave Linton (I think) was No 3 Sqn, their pre-helicopter Chipmunk Sqn, who moved to Church Fenton.

This photo shows their formation en route, photo from Air Clues (and my logbook!):

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1336x682/looanchorformhr_6c594b1e3d8147fc916bf4fcb6bf92fda76ba090.jpe g

[eaw]

Hi ShyTorque,

The last course awarded wings by Sir Douglas Bader on 1 April 1977 was 14 Cse.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1538/wings_parade_1_apr_77_adf376cae32008ec2db705128e49d6377007d3 19.jpg
Back row L/R- Wealleans, Newton, Perrins, Curties, MacIntyre, Wright.
Front row L/R - Hitchmough, Marshall, Simmons, Sir Douglas Bader, Smith, Knockles, McAuliffe.

[idle stop]

Tram...
Further research is that was actually our Wings day photo on 30th April 1976, and the RO in the middle was AVM P J Lagesen, CB, DFC, AFC, then the AOC No 1 Gp. I got all the other names correct, though!

[ShyTorque]

Eaw, thanks for the correction. So 15 course were the first “disappointed” course. :(

I recognise quite a few on that photo. Kev McAuliffe and myself were at OASC at the same time.

[Vampiredave]

Still on the subject of Linton-on-Ouse, can anyone with any clarity recall this event?On 28 October 1982, No.1 FTS celebrated 25 years of operational flying at Linton-on-Ouse with a series of commemorative flypasts. Twenty-four Jet Provosts led by the CI, Wg Cdr Ed Jarron, Sqn Ldrs Bill Langworthy and Al Watson, overflew the airfield in a formation that spelled the Station’s identification letters ‘L O 1’. This was followed by a display of various aircraft operated by school, including a Chipmunk, a Vampire T Mk.11, and three different marks of Jet Provosts.

Despite being an historical event for both the station and the Jet Provost, it would appear that the event has passed into obscurity?

[[email protected]]

I recognise quite a few on that photo. Kev McAuliffe and myself were at OASC at the same time. Shiney Simmons was one of my QFIs at Linton in 82 - Sandy Marshall and Adrian Knockles both ended up rotary as did Richard Head (mentioned by 57mm) but after a first career on Vulcans.

[Haraka]

I was with Rick Head on ULAS.
Years later he donated his flying suit badge to the OC RIC(NI) at Aldergove............

"RIC Head"

[tramontana]

A.V.M. Lagesen seems to have been a bit of a character from what I gather, he was certainly a brave man, not bad promotion for a chap who started his flying career as an Air Gunner.

[idle stop]

Methinks there may be two Richard Head! I was on ULAS 69-71 and think that RH was senior to me by a year, and as an APO he would normally have gone straight to Cranditz. So unlikely he would have been behind me at Linton as I did not do Henlow/Linton until I joined in 74. But somebody is correct..that Richard Head was Vulcans, Bulldog QFI and then Rotary. And QHI in due course.

[huge72]

I flew with Rick Head, Adrian Knockles and Mike Barter in the 80's on the Wessex. Have lost track of all but the last time I saw Mike Barter was on a Herc in Masirah during Ex Saif Saria in 2001. I believe he was Stn Cdr at Odiham at the time and went on to be College Commandant at Cranwell in 2002.

[teeteringhead]

Barter retired as a one star and is now runs a service charity I think - possibly Star and Garter Home??

[idle stop]

Spot-on, TH. Have his contact details. Pete Butler I bumped into a few years back...he had ended up with BA. The rest???

[lsh]

I flew with Rick Head, Adrian Knockles and Mike Barter in the 80's on the Wessex. Have lost track of all but the last time I saw Mike Barter was on a Herc in Masirah during Ex Saif Saria in 2001. I believe he was Stn Cdr at Odiham at the time and went on to be College Commandant at Cranwell in 2002.

Just before RH arrived on 72 Sqn at Aldergrove, one of the trainer's came into the crewroom with a list of new joiner's.
"You will never believe it, we have a guy coming called Rick Head"!
So, like you do, we got all the jests ready for his arrival.

RH arrives (I can still see him framed in the crewroom door) and announces loudly (always with RH!):
"Good morning gentlemen, my name is Richard Head".
"Also known as..............................." Reeling off every combination possible.

Happy Days!

lsh
:E

[Mogwi]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/320x240/image_900d6bd1f26a459ffa7de12a9c1fc75944e6ff99.jpeg

[Addlepate]

Then there was the gate guardian ...

This (or my ageing memory) is niggling at me. Anyone recall if this was still there mid '80s?

[ZH875]

This (or my ageing memory) is niggling at me. Anyone recall if this was still there mid '80s?

There was a Piston Provost on the gate in 1985, as line swine we were responsible for washing it when the SWO wanted it cleaning.

[threeputt]

Idle stop
John Cocks was my Brother-in Law. He left the RAF, not having pursed a career. He worked in the Middle East for some time and latterly ran a small hotel in Koh Samui, Thailand, he passed away in 2019. RIP.

Jerry Gegg

[Addlepate]

There was a Piston Provost on the gate in 1985, as line swine we were responsible for washing it when the SWO wanted it cleaning.

Thanks. It would be mid to late '84 to early to mid '85 I'm thinking of. I had a memory of thinking 'oh - Spitfire' on arrival for the first time, but at this distance and advancing age it could easily be a false memory or somewhere else !!

[Hueymeister]

Just before RH arrived on 72 Sqn at Aldergrove, one of the trainer's came into the crewroom with a list of new joiner's.
"You will never believe it, we have a guy coming called Rick Head"!
So, like you do, we got all the jests ready for his arrival.

RH arrives (I can still see him framed in the crewroom door) and announces loudly (always with RH!):
"Good morning gentlemen, my name is Richard Head".
"Also known as..............................." Reeling off every combination possible.

Happy Days!

lsh
:E
1990, Princess Margret visits Shawbury. Dress rehearsal for the hangar walk thro, Tony N the staish wafts past the Wessex with attendant Instructors in growbags. JC one side RH on the other. JC's name badge reads 'I'm not a Dick Head', RH's reads, 'but I am'. TN spots it and the mayhem begins... As always this is passed on 2nd hand, but never let the truth..blah blah blah...
Same day her dress got a subtle hint of green courtesy of the role demo smoke grenades...

[Valiantone]

Presumably they still have the not entirely small issue of at least 1 hangar full of dismantled Tucanos....

[[email protected]]

Heuymeister - I remember it well :ok:

[David Thompson]

The future of RAF Linton On Ouse was discussed in the Houses Of Parliament today during a question raised by the local MP Kevin Hollinrake and at the moment "no long term military requirement has been identified for the airfield" as set out by the Defence Secretary Ben Wallace ;

I am deeply saddened that efforts to find a last minute reprieve for RAF Linton on Ouse have failed. I have held a number of meetings with the Defence Secretary, Ben Wallace and senior Defence staff to try to explore other military options for the site. However, in response to my question about its future in the House of Commons, the Defence Secretary said “We did look at exploring other military uses for the base. At the moment no long term military requirements have been identified. Therefore we are completing final assessments, with disposal details being announced in due course.”

I am very disappointed. I had had a number of discussions about how the site could be used. Local people are rightly proud of the role RAF Linton on Ouse has played in the defence of the realm since the end of the second world war until recently. During World War 2 its planes, pilots and air crew took off for highly dangerous long-distance bombing raids on Germany, Norway and other Axis military bases in Europe. I will continue to work with the local authority to try to find alternative employment for those who are still looking for work.

RAF Linton on Ouse has been situated in the Hambleton village for 80 years, opening in 1937 as a bomber airfield. Fast jet training, which had been conducted at Linton on Ouse has already been transferred to RAF Valley on Anglesey in North Wales.

The MP's question to the Minister appears on his Facebook page , link here ; https://www.facebook.com/kevin.hollinrake .

[aeroid]

Living as I do on the nearest thing to the dark side of the moon, Northern Scotland, I am saddened to hear of the imminent closure of Linton. I QFI'd at Leeming from Jun 73 until they closed the FTS in Sept 74 when I moved to Linton. Happy days, wonderful people and a thoroughly enjoyable time up to the time in Dec 76 when I left Mr Whippy to return to Air Support Command's Global Pub crawl on Fat Albert in Wiltshire. Are there any other pensioners out there still above ground who can recall 45 years ago. Time for war stories.

[Addlepate]

There was a Piston Provost on the gate in 1985, as line swine we were responsible for washing it when the SWO wanted it cleaning.

After a bit of research it seems the Spitfire (MkVb BM597, now at Duxford) was there '75 to '79, and must have been replaced by the Provost (XF545) as that was there in '81 and appears to have been replaced by JP3 XN589 in '92.

[idle stop]

Thanks, Threeputt. Very sorry to hear about John. RIP indeed.
Aeroid...you may even have been one of the QFIs on our squadron?
Another memory of Linton...the wooden toll bridge I was in OMQ at Dishforth, convenient, as whilst holding for BFTS, I had latterly been at Leeming on AOITS*. Sometimes the bridge was manned, sometimes not. Always had a 2p handy in case there was somebody there to take it. Funnily enough the two flight commanders on AOITS, both QFIs, arrived with me as my course-mates on my Whirlwind course at Tern Hill. One of them later worked for the same off-shore helicopter company as me!
* AOITS...Aircrew Officers Interim Training Squadron, IIRC.

[pr00ne]

idle stop,

What is "interim training,'' and how does it differ from 'training?'

[aeroid]

Thanks Idle Stop. I was on 1 Sqn. The bridge was still there when I visited Yorkshire a year or so ago. I lived at 46 The Green Dishforth whilst at Leeming. I know it is a small world but in 1980's I was operating from Aberdeen to Shetland on oil work, Were you with Bristows?

[idle stop]

aeroid...suggest you pm me!

proone....for interim, read temporary! There was a big pool of holding would-be pilots 75-76 and after some of us had been scattered around various bases and squadrons we were gathered into AOITS at Leeming until our BFTS courses started.

Edit...autocorrect seems to change pr00ne to Pprune! Ah...zeros.

[kintyred]

Another memory of Linton...the wooden toll bridge I was in OMQ at Dishforth, convenient, as whilst holding for BFTS, I had latterly been at Leeming on AOITS*. Sometimes the bridge was manned, sometimes not. Always had a 2p handy in case there was somebody there to take it..
Aldwark Bridge. It was the start point for The Navy Run’ - drive as fast as possible to the ‘Linton On Ouse’ sign at the entrance to the Village. The record was just over 2 minutes in the mid eighties iirc.

[2 TWU]

I was a QFI on 2 Sqn from 74-77, very happy times. We were blessed by 2 very good CFIs who sheltered us from the strange ideas of a non QFI Stn Cdr during that time. In later years, it was always gratifying to meet ex studes who were mostly very appreciative of the instruction and general attitude of Linton.

The infamous hold for studes in 75 was caused by a 6 month halt to new courses starting as the MoD went through one of it’s periodic crises. At the time, we had 2 studes per course from an African nation, these guys should have done 2 years at their equivalent of Cranwell, 40 hours in the Bulldog, proficiency in English etc. The MoD offered to said nation we can do a lot more in the next 6 months, send what you’ve got. Absolute carnage, no adherence to the qualifications at all, as it transpired some of the guys were signed on into the Air Force on the plane into the UK, hence the creation of a Bulldog training set up based at Dishforth. The ‘ladies of the night’ in York have never had such a profitable time, the guardroom had a slush fund to call for taxis in the early hours at weekends. Every month, a man from the Embassy appeared with a shed load of cash for the guys. Entertaining to say the least.

Two of my most exciting moments were courtesy of the remnants of these guys. Doing an Intermediate Handling Test on one, as he raised the nose to get airborne, he managed to apply a considerable amount of brake via the toe pedal to the left wheel, I just managed to take it and lift off before we took to the grass. On airborne examination, the tyre looked like an old style three penny bit but stayed in one piece on landing a few minutes later. As we rolled to a very shakey full stop, his only question was ‘oh Sir, did I pass’.

At one time, the main runway was closed for resurfacing so we used the short whatever the wind. On a final landing, my stude smacked it on the numbers and bounced ( not easy in a JP). He then jammed both feet hard on the brake pedals which fortunately I could see on the brake pressure gauge. In a JP 3, going downhill at below touchdown speed and throttle closed was not comfortable, a few well chosen, rapidly delivered words of advice just worked, I watched the brake pressure dribble off just before we hit the ground the second time. It was all good for soul.

[idle stop]

My memories of Linton are all happy ones. Such a good atmosphere; having only one Officers’ Mess helped...staff and studes in the bar in flying suits in the bar until 1900...the honesty/chits barrel on the mess patio late afternoon in the summer. Comparing notes with Cranwell contemporaries it was chalk and cheese...and we had the cheese!
First (jet) Solo at Elvington. Hoping to fly in there later this year, once COVID GA restrictions lifted.
And did anybody ever unearth the cases of cockpit clocks rumoured buried on the airfield since Stirling days?!!

[pr00ne]

aeroid...suggest you pm me!

proone....for interim, read temporary! There was a big pool of holding would-be pilots 75-76 and after some of us had been scattered around various bases and squadrons we were gathered into AOITS at Leeming until our BFTS courses started.

Edit...autocorrect seems to change pr00ne to Pprune! Ah...zeros.

Thanks idle stop, was a genuine query and was not taking the michael.

[Bill Macgillivray]

Initially instructing on Chippies with RN HSP courses, then 2 Sqn. (JP3&4) flt.cdr. late 60's - lived in OMQ at Dishforth (not on the Square!), Last RN course (at the time) and couple of RAF courses, one of my happiest and fulfilling tours in the Royal Air Force! The Aldwark toll bridge in those days cost (I think!) a halfpenny (to be claimed each month! on home to duty!) Living in the past - why not?

Bill

[Specaircrew]

I was a QFI on 2 Sqn from 74-77, very happy times. We were blessed by 2 very good CFIs who sheltered us from the strange ideas of a non QFI Stn Cdr during that time. In later years, it was always gratifying to meet ex studes who were mostly very appreciative of the instruction and general attitude of Linton.

The infamous hold for studes in 75 was caused by a 6 month halt to new courses starting as the MoD went through one of it’s periodic crises. At the time, we had 2 studes per course from an African nation, these guys should have done 2 years at their equivalent of Cranwell, 40 hours in the Bulldog, proficiency in English etc. The MoD offered to said nation we can do a lot more in the next 6 months, send what you’ve got. Absolute carnage, no adherence to the qualifications at all, as it transpired some of the guys were signed on into the Air Force on the plane into the UK, hence the creation of a Bulldog training set up based at Dishforth. The ‘ladies of the night’ in York have never had such a profitable time, the guardroom had a slush fund to call for taxis in the early hours at weekends. Every month, a man from the Embassy appeared with a shed load of cash for the guys. Entertaining to say the least.

Two of my most exciting moments were courtesy of the remnants of these guys. Doing an Intermediate Handling Test on one, as he raised the nose to get airborne, he managed to apply a considerable amount of brake via the toe pedal to the left wheel, I just managed to take it and lift off before we took to the grass. On airborne examination, the tyre looked like an old style three penny bit but stayed in one piece on landing a few minutes later. As we rolled to a very shakey full stop, his only question was ‘oh Sir, did I pass’.

At one time, the main runway was closed for resurfacing so we used the short whatever the wind. On a final landing, my stude smacked it on the numbers and bounced ( not easy in a JP). He then jammed both feet hard on the brake pedals which fortunately I could see on the brake pressure gauge. In a JP 3, going downhill at below touchdown speed and throttle closed was not comfortable, a few well chosen, rapidly delivered words of advice just worked, I watched the brake pressure dribble off just before we hit the ground the second time. It was all good for soul.

I was a stude on 37 Course and remember one of those gentlemen turning up in a pink E type!

[ShyTorque]

Initially instructing on Chippies with RN HSP courses, then 2 Sqn. (JP3&4) flt.cdr. late 60's - lived in OMQ at Dishforth (not on the Square!), Last RN course (at the time) and couple of RAF courses, one of my happiest and fulfilling tours in the Royal Air Force! The Aldwark toll bridge in those days cost (I think!) a halfpenny (to be claimed each month! on home to duty!) Living in the past - why not?

Bill

I think it was 2p in the late 1970s but you’d need eighty half pennies each way these days!

[staircase]

Oh the horror of 'F' troop on 3 Squadron, Linton in that summer '75. I praise the lord that I never had to instruct with that lot, although a few of us still got our overseas student. It was soul destroying trying to teach people to fly who had, it must be said, no aptitude at all, in fact some of them could not even ride bikes.

I seem to remember one SDO being woken in the middle of the night by a 'lady' from Leeds, saying that 3 of them had 'had' her, and now they were refusing to pay and that what was he going to do about it.

That said the 2 years that I spent there instructing were some of the best of my career, but that may have had more to do with the weather and the proximity of York!

[idle stop]

Meet and Greet for 8 Course. B**ler espies our USAF exchange instructor with a chest full of medal ribbons...’I guess you got a couple of those for instructing, Sir’ he quips. ‘Well, as a matter of fact.....’!!! Capt Jimmy Howard. Good guy....

[Audax]

Jimmy H had been a FAC in Vietnam flying the push-pull Cessna on longish sorties. Inevitably, on one trip the local cuisine caught up with him, a touch of Motezumas Revenge, Jimmy managed to do the necessary into the rather natty bone dome bag then in use by the USAF. On landing, he left the bag outside whilst he went to tidy himself up, inevitably the bag was nicked. You can only imagine the miscreants expression when he proudly showed his family the latest acquisition.

At the bosses (KFGEM) for drinks, Boss and wife had a new baby. Jimmy picked the babe up and, as you do, lifted the child up to do the gootchy gootchy goo bit. Unfortunately, he lifted the babe too high and banged his head against the ceiling, much crying but fortunately no damage to baby or the plasterwork.

On posting back home, Jimmy wanted a particular slot at I believe Mountain Home, he had to send a photo with his request. A friend of his called him to ask if he really wanted the posting, if so send a new picture. Why? Well, your hair is much too long. Jimmy “ but I had it cut especially short”. Well said friend, you’ve been in the UK took long, get a USAF cut!

[idle stop]

Great bit of history, Audax!
And saved me a search. Remember now Boss was Ken Miles. Nice chap too.

[Green Flash]

I was a stude on 37 Course and remember one of those gentlemen turning up in a pink E type!

Another gent pitched up with a 4L Pontiac Firebird, black with a red and gold firebird emblazoned on the bonnet. It later went via the car auction in York and me and a mate bought it. For a month we gave it large around York and it was a very good babe magnet. Unfortunately it had a fuel consumption measured in tons per foot so all pre match entertainments with the laydees was spent feeding The Thing From Detroit. The engine was a solid block of rust but the exhausts leaked with a pleasing rumble. We put it back through the auction after a few weeks and another idiot bought it.

[Wensleydale]

Another gent pitched up with a 4L Pontiac Firebird, black with a red and gold firebird emblazoned on the bonnet. It later went via the car auction in York and me and a mate bought it. For a month we gave it large around York and it was a very good babe magnet. Unfortunately it had a fuel consumption measured in tons per foot so all pre match entertainments with the laydees was spent feeding The Thing From Detroit. The engine was a solid block of rust but the exhausts leaked with a pleasing rumble. We put it back through the auction after a few weeks and another idiot bought it.

When I was at Linton (77-78), the F&C Students were banned from having cars: the rumours were that they had been pulled up for so many motoring offences (no license, speeding etc) but had been able to escape the Law by claiming Diplomatic Immunity. This left them with lots of spare cash and little to spend it on, so their wing of the OM became full of very high end, (and very loud) music sound systems that boomed down the corridor at all times of day and night. I was fortunate enough to live in the other wing, but still heard the "disco" blaring away most evenings. The stories of their mishaps would have filled many a line book, and I'm not sure how many of them were true, but if only a small percentage of them actually happened then they were certainly dangerous!

[2 TWU]

Re the motoring offences, the police essentially washed their hands of the whole business, the offenders were taken back to Linton in the hope military discipline would suffice—-basic mistake.

One typical incident. The driver slid his BMW off the road in icy weather, pulled out by the police, no tax, no insurance, no driving licence. In front of the CO the next morning, he signed a document confirming he would not drive again until he was fully legal. That very night, he managed to run into a police car, it’s impossible to deal with such a downright lack of ethics. Representations were made to the Embassy, a man did come to talk to the ‘officers’ but with little apparent effect.

[skua]

Meet and Greet for 8 Course. B**ler espies our USAF exchange instructor with a chest full of medal ribbons...’I guess you got a couple of those for instructing, Sir’ he quips. ‘Well, as a matter of fact.....’!!! Capt Jimmy Howard. Good guy....

I spent a week or 2 at Linton when on a UAS. I had 2 JP trips, one with a US QFI called Howard. It was a night weather check. We did aeros relatively low level, just NE of Harrogate - I thought that was quite ballsy. Guess it's the same guy.

[ShyTorque]

I was there 1977-8. There were two F&C students who were brothers; their rooms were just along the corridor from my room in the west wing.

I was married and lived in the Mess during the week but went home to my in-laws most weekends. One Friday evening I had to stay over for some reason, probably a formal dinner night. I went into the ablutions room and the shower cubicle, which was actually two adjacent, open shower cubicles with a dividing wall between them, they had no individual shower curtains. The small changing area was common to both, with just a slatted bench and enough room to stand. The shower curtain was at the entrance end of that space. As I went in, there was someone in the far shower. As I began lathering myself up the other person finished showering and came out into the common space to get dried. I was expecting to see another student but instead an extremely attractive and curvaceous, long haired and nicely tanned brunette female appeared, stark naked. I’m no prude, but to say I was taken aback was an understatement. It was an all male ablution room. I didn’t know where to look but she was totally unabashed and simply gave me a big smile and said “Evenin’!”

She briefly dried herself, wrapped her towel around herself and departed. I couldn’t resist waiting ten seconds then nipping across to look out of the main ablutions room door to see where she went. She went into the F&C brothers’ room. Turned out she was a common visitor at weekends and was a professional lady who was paid for her services.

[idle stop]

OMQs at Dishforth were obviously tame by comparison!
My last trip to Linton was to have a go in the Tucano. At the time one of the aspects of my day job was lead-in training for occasional students from a Middle Eastern country who were to go on to RAF BFTS. Over a couple of years one of them actually made it through both Linton and Valley...
And I was also involved with Grading for students from same part of world going on to helicopter training. My colleague had an interesting experience... Short finals, T67, sound of mobile phone ringing. Student abandons controls, retrieving phone from flying suit lower leg pocket....
in those days few of us had a mobile!
Hard work when your students are mega unmotivated. Harder work when you have to fly again on RW with the students you recommended for the chop during FW grading. Happy days....

[Audax]

On one occasion l did the pre-chop check ride with a guy who did fail his CFI ride the next day. Ended up as my nav on Phantoms a few years later! No hard feelings, he knew he wasn’t going to get through as a pilot but at least I used the 2 sticker to teach him to attempt to land the F4 if I fell asleep.

[idle stop]

One of the guys on 8 Course was chopped only a few days before the end of the JP3a phase...and impending Wings Parade. Sad to get that far, but. However, he was lucky...there was a later trawl of 'almost passed' ex-studes who had gone off to other branches, but who were then given a second go. He eventually pitched up at Shawbury when I was a QHI there a few years on! Quite a surprise.

[Minnie Burner]

Did anybody mention how superb the LoO OM nosh was in the early 70s? In them good ol' days when the CatO couldn't be the messing member?

[airsound]

Did anybody mention how superb the LoO OM nosh was in the early 70s? It certainly was, Minnie Burner. I was there 1970-73, and for a while I was Dep PMC (President of the Mess Committee) for my sins. But one day when PMC was on leave, I got a call from the Padre, who was a local, ex RN, vicar. The Church of England Synod was happening in York, and could he invite the three service chief padres to sample Linton's best at dinner. So, for the only time in my life, I got to dine with a padre and three bishops.... Gnosh was tremendous, natch - and I had one of the most entertaining meals of my life.

airsound

[RetiredBA/BY]

On one occasion l did the pre-chop check ride with a guy who did fail his CFI ride the next day. Ended up as my nav on Phantoms a few years later! No hard feelings, he knew he wasn’t going to get through as a pilot but at least I used the 2 sticker to teach him to attempt to land the F4 if I fell asleep.

Landing an F4 !

Thought you guys just waited for a collision between earth and airframe ! !

That said, some of my JP students seemed ready to prepare for that and later some of my Boeing students seemed to think the same practice still worked ! !

[Bill Macgillivray]

All I can say,(from what I now realise!) is some 54 year later!!, is that the OM at Linton was probably one of the best that I ever belonged to in my time in the RAF (but we do tend to live in the past!)

Bill

[Minnie Burner]

It certainly was, Minnie Burner. I was there 1970-73, and for a while I was Dep PMC (President of the Mess Committee) for my sins. But one day when PMC was on leave, I got a call from the Padre, who was a local, ex RN, vicar. The Church of England Synod was happening in York, and could he invite the three service chief padres to sample Linton's best at dinner. So, for the only time in my life, I got to dine with a padre and three bishops.... Gnosh was tremendous, natch - and I had one of the most entertaining meals of my life.

airsound
Positive ID, then. Good to know you're still "givin it large"!

[pontifex]

SPECAIRCREW

I was a boss on 2Sqn in 77. I hope I was one of those you approved off!

[Specaircrew]

SPECAIRCREW

I was a boss on 2Sqn in 77. I hope I was one of those you approved off!
I think that message is directed at 2 TWU as I'd already graduated, done Valley, Brawdy, been chopped off F4's and started the Vulcan OCU by '77.

[lsh]

It certainly was, Minnie Burner. I was there 1970-73, and for a while I was Dep PMC (President of the Mess Committee) for my sins. But one day when PMC was on leave, I got a call from the Padre, who was a local, ex RN, vicar. The Church of England Synod was happening in York, and could he invite the three service chief padres to sample Linton's best at dinner. So, for the only time in my life, I got to dine with a padre and three bishops.... Gnosh was tremendous, natch - and I had one of the most entertaining meals of my life.

airsound


I see your Padre and three Bishop's, and raise to 14 Bishops!
We still had a bird strike!

lsh
https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x640/belize_bishops__779c1b48b302a7990381bcf6ee182a9a3753412c.jpg

[idle stop]

Sorry, off thread. Never mind the clerics, got a fair few hours in the precise old bird behind.....! More memories....

[ShyTorque]

I see your Padre and three Bishop's, and raise to 14 Bishops!
We still had a bird strike!

lsh
https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/evil.gif

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x640/belize_bishops__779c1b48b302a7990381bcf6ee182a9a3753412c.jpg

Lsh, I last flew that airframe in July 1991 but in a much cooler place. Where did the last thirty years go?

[idle stop]

And on the subject of airframes, a couple of years ago I sat 2 of my grandchildren in the cockpit of a JP3a fuselage at the RAF Museum in Hendon. Seeing the 1FTS logo, I noted the tail number and checked my logbook when I got home. Bingo!

[ShyTorque]

Same here. What really made me feel old was when a “new” gate guardian arrived at Odiham and it was one of the Whirlwinds I’d flown. Even worse was when they replaced that!

[kenparry]

Museum exhibits (nothing to do with Linton...)

In the mid-60s, while on the Chivenor course, one weekend I visited the Science Museum in South Kensington. One exhibit was the cockpit of a Hunter F6.. and... it was possible to see through the closed canopy that it was in a later mod state than some of those at Chivenor. Ho hum.:bored:

[aeroid]

Visited a museum at Duxford in the late 60's and saw a Hastings that I had flown. It was older than I was. For you youngsters under 60 the Hasty was a 4 engined tail dragger that taught you what asymmetric was all about.

[idle stop]

Ok...back on thread. Saturday Steak Nights in the Mess. ABBA days!
(But the Puma with the background Mayan ruins did bring back memories!)

[Minnie Burner]

Any idea what year the OM cannons were last fired? Presumably just before a certain double-dad ex-Hunter pilot moved to Church Fenton.....
...I was told that an OMQ roof was the only casualty.

[Bill Macgillivray]

M B

I remember (I think) that they were fired in late '68 (or at least one was), round about the time that I politely put the Yorkshire Ch. Constable (guest night) through one of the ante-room windows! As you might imagine it did cost me, but we were all good friends! Good days, I think!!

Bill

[Minnie Burner]

Thanks Bill, happy days indeed. Despite the constant threat of "the chopper".
So glad your behaviour improved before our days of Keos and kebabs....
..... otherwise who knows what might've happened.

[ShyTorque]

During the aftermath of a dinner night in the late 1970s a certain young officer decided for some reason that it would be a good idea to remove all the contents of a certain absent QFI’s bedroom and rebuild it on the grass lawn in front of the Mess.

Duly done. Then it was suggested that his bed looked quite empty. One of the cannons was lifted off its wooden plinth and placed in bed and covered up. Unfortunately it was so heavy that it collapsed the bed springs into the soft earth. It subsequently proved impossible to retrieve the cannon by hand. An “Iron Fairy” crane had to be brought in the following day to lift it out. Duly paid for by contributions from those in attendance, of course.

An added complication was that the wooden plinth had fallen apart. The rumour went around that the guilty were also to be held responsible for the considerable replacement costs of that. Thankfully it was later decreed that it’s demise was natural causes due to fungal rot and charges were waived.

[Mach2]

Oh the horror of 'F' troop on 3 Squadron, Linton in that summer '75. I praise the lord that I never had to instruct with that lot, although a few of us still got our overseas student. It was soul destroying trying to teach people to fly who had, it must be said, no aptitude at all, in fact some of them could not even ride bikes.

I seem to remember one SDO being woken in the middle of the night by a 'lady' from Leeds, saying that 3 of them had 'had' her, and now they were refusing to pay and that what was he going to do about it.

That said the 2 years that I spent there instructing were some of the best of my career, but that may have had more to do with the weather and the proximity of York!

I was on that dreaded 'F' Flight at the time! we got a total of 17 F&C students in one go, and after lots of extra hours and reflys we eventually graduated 3 of them! Afterwards we got 4 UK students who had been off flying for sickness or injury who only had to complete their Gp 1 Phase1 training - the fun bit with lots of low-level nav, formation and aerobatics

[idle stop]

So another dip into Logbook No 1.
It was Jimmy Howard who sent me solo at Elvington on 15th October 1975. But Ken Jones was my 'Primary' QFI. Other names...Sqn Ldr Miles (Sqn Boss) then: Holding, Craven, Lees, Wormald (CGI?), Webb, Moffat, Dowler, Tester, Oakley, Morris, Burridge (Sir Brian, so I know what became of him!) Webb, Handfield, Gilchrist, Rigby. And FHT JP5a on 21 Jul 76 with Wg Cdr Hayden, who was CFI. Owe them all a lot. Collective thank you. Anybody know what became of the rest?

[staircase]

Well there are some names there to remember and mine is among them, so I thankyou for your 'thankyou'.

It is with regret however, that I am fairly sure 5 of them are now in the Officer's Mess in another place. Still it was 45 years ago.

[Arclite01]

Idlestop

Was that Wg Cdr Mike Hayden by any chance ?

Arc

[idle stop]

Staircase: Hello! Glad to hear that you are still about. Commiserations for those who have moved on. So yes, thanks again! PM me if you wish; identities confidential, of course.
Arclite01: Just looked in my Grad programme. So it was Wg Cdr M J Hayden...could well have been Mike, but of course I only ever knew him as 'Sir'!

[Arclite01]

Staircase: Hello! Glad to hear that you are still about. Commiserations for those who have moved on. So yes, thanks again! PM me if you wish; identities confidential, of course.
Arclite01: Just looked in my Grad programme. So it was Wg Cdr M J Hayden...could well have been Mike, but of course I only ever knew him as 'Sir'!

I think I knew him through his son in the 1980's when he was Living in OMQ's a Biggin Hill, although working at MoD staff by then. I think he'd also been a QFI at Syerston on the JP, then Linton......................

As an Air Cadet he taught me 'Propulsion' and 'Airframes' as part of our syllabus. I think it was a 'secondary' duty. He wasn't part of OASC staff.

Arc

[Audax]

Idle stop, other QFIs on 2 Sqn around at the time you mention included:-

Garth Bennett, Clive Roberts, Neil Buckland, Russ Morley, Mike Sykes, Mike Kempster, John Andres, Chris Burwell, Brian Casey, Gavin McKay, there will be others I can’t recall.

As you say, some no longer with us. The most remarkable of one who survived was Ron Dowler. Ron hit the ground during a LL Aeros practice, his survival was in no small part due to the bravery and skill of one of the crash crew.

[billovitch]

So, what will the ladies from Ripon teachers’ training college do for escorts (and future husbands) now?

[Fatjoff]

So, what will the ladies from Ripon teachers’ training college do for escorts (and future husbands) now?
Sorry, but the college closed many years ago. I moved to Ripon in 2002, and it had already been closed a good few years.

[Lomon]

More than one occasion student pilots would get their callsigns mixed up and would be told to adopt the callsigns "Stupid 1" and "Stupid 2"

I also remember an irate Sqn Ldr storming into the tower with a huge chunk of ice that had formed on the prop of his Tucano. (causing an engine imbalance and resulting in an emergency recovery) Demanding to know why ATC weren't informing the pilots of icing in the vicinity (it wasn't in the forecast, and the first we knew of it was when he reported it)

Once placated by the supervisor with this explanation, the pilot looked around the tower and then asked "What should I do with this?" cue the Pilot Officer who was ground controller piping up "I can probably find you a gin and tonic to put it in sir!" This resulted in the propeller blade sized hunk of ice being thrown at the ground controller and the pilot storming back out of the tower whilst the people left in the tower descended into fits of giggles

[idle stop]

Audax: yes, I recall Russ Morley and Clive Roberts. I think our 8 Course was there when Ron Dowler had his accident. If he is still here ( hope so) that is indeed fantastic.

FMM910: Any names on that photo?

Nice to see reminiscences from the younger Tucano guys ( whoops...and gals!).

For the younger generation too, you may wonder why, in the days before very common post uni entries, and before the advent of internet dating, it was common for spouses to be teachers or nurses!! There’s a hint from billovitch....

[ShyTorque]

Ron Dowler crashed his JP the day before I arrived to begin the BFTS course. It was still lying inverted on the airfield. Quite a sobering sight.

[Fareastdriver]

You had RADAR??????? Good God, how to spoil people. What's wrong with their eyes.

[Yellow Sun]

Audax: yes, I recall Russ Morley and Clive Roberts. I think our 8 Course was there when Ron Dowler had his accident. If he is still here ( hope so) that is indeed fantastic.


Ron was still alive a couple of years ago.

YS

[spekesoftly]

Ron was still alive a couple of years ago

That is amazing and excellent news. I was one of two Controllers on duty in the Tower at Linton, and witnessed Ron's accident that Saturday morning at the end of April 1977. The airfield had opened specifically for Ron to practise his display. All I knew at the time was that Ron had suffered significant head injuries, and the prognosis was not good. I believe he spent a long time in Wroughton Hospital.

[idle stop]

Speke...
How the memory plays tricks! You are absolutely correct. I thought the accident was whilst I was still there in ‘76. April 1977 I was already at Odiham, just about to start Puma OCU, having been through Ternhill/Shawbury.
Really good to know Ron still about.

[ShyTorque]

Ron Dowler’s life was saved by one of the station doctors who performed a tracheotomy on him whilst he was still strapped into a live ejection seat in the inverted JP. The seat’s top handle was partly out of its housing so it could have gone off. I was told that Ron’s head was actually below ground level because the impact after the aircraft turned over had gouged out the earth below the canopy.

I’m fairly sure the Doc received a well deserved bravery award but I can’t recall what it was.

[Lomon]

When was that? I was there for quite a while in the 90s and beyond in various roles and never heard that. I'm not saying you are making it up but, hmmmnnn.

I was in the tower there from 97-99 (with a 4 month holiday in '99) so I would guess summer of '98 The WO controller was "eccentric' to say the least.

[Lomon]

... not that busy compared with Brize, Lossie, etc.

However the tower did win an award called the Cossor Trophy (later renamed the Raytheon Trophy) part of the submission was that Linton was the second busiest airfield in the UK (behind Heathrow)

[FMM910]

26 Course Linton April 1973 Graduation

What happened to you all - it's nearly 50 years ago!

L - R Back: Dick Lotinga, Mike (Jimmy) Lowes, Chris Hill, Kim Willcox, Spence Brotherton, Dennis Martin, Chris Daymon, Phil Walters, Bernie Mills.

L - R Front: Andy Abbott, John Boxer, Pete Kemp, Malcolm White, Terry Easterbrook, Paul Critchley, Roy Baron, Mike Stevens.

Yes, what happened to you all?!!
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1199x791/26_course_linton_c7b11d9d24c3a6b2606a19fa9c8d5b63e049a07e.jp g

[idle stop]

Pete Kemp was on ULAS similar time as me. Last ran across him at Binbrook, I think about 1988 when I was doing a Chipmunk summer camp there. IIRC he was doing a Sim instructor tour. I think also it was he who, whilst at Linton, left his JP on a railway line in N Yorks, after banging out safely. Not his fault.
Pretty sure Paul Critchley and I were fellow QHIs on Gazelle at Shawbury.
Malcolm White...recent PM of the Hon Company?

[Haraka]

Pete Kemp ejected climbing through deep cloud ( well beyond his IR. rating) whilst at Cranwell as a G.E. .He continued at Linton, which he described as having a very different atmosphere!
The joke at the time was that at least after ejecting he "ended up on track".

[idle stop]

Thanks for putting me right on that, Haraka. I seem to remember it was not just the unexpected depth of cloud but also to do with overload of ATC instructions, and having to reach across cockpit to change a squawk...
i think we all agree that Linton had a great atmosphere compared with Cranwell!

[H Peacock]

i think we all agree that Linton had a great atmosphere compared with Cranwell!

But that was probably countered by the BFT course at Cranwell being entirely on the Mk5A rather than having to endure the 3A up until streaming.

[57mm]

God how I hated the JP3. That awful H mask that was like wearing a welly on your face, together with the pathetic performance. The JP5 was brilliant in comparison. I didn't envy the QFIs that had to learn both aircraft and instruct on them.

[binbrook]

You should have tried a a T/O in a JP3 on a summer afternoon during the time when the max RPM was limited to IIRC 98%. Very pleased the Vale of York was flat.

[Fortissimo]

I went to CFS (Basic) straight from an F4 tour. After the seemingly interminable 6-week ground school we went to do the JP convex with RFS at Church Fenton, as the waterfront was apparently a bit busy. I still vividly recall being told prior to trip #1 that I was not to abort as the aircraft would get airborne eventually. The crushing acceleration when I let the brakes off caused me to wonder about that instruction, but the QFI turned out to be right when the vibration from the runway eventually stopped. A minute or two later I was still in FJ mode and thought I should get busy, but in the absence of radar, rigging and pre-attack checks to do, I decided to try one of those FOEL things they had been banging on about. "Fuel - numbers haven't moved; Oxygen - not required for an hour or so; Engine - still making noise; Location - pretty much where we were when we took off" earned me a gentle rebuke for not taking things seriously.

I got my own back 20 mins later when I was chided for not flying an accurate FL50. I pointed out that I was flying a very accurate FL53, which I had told him was my datum height, and it was FL53 to avoid being hit by the duffers not looking out while they desperately tried to stay S&L at FL50. If he preferred, I would happily wind 10mb onto the altimeter to achieve the same effect. We discussed, I agreed to behave, and he admitted he had been given something else to think about.

[Idle Reverse]

Wind on 10mb ? . . I thought it was “wind off mbs, wind off height” ?

[Wetstart Dryrun]

Please don't be rude about the JP3. It garnered speed, it accrued height, but it was sweet. In a clanky kind of way. ....any height, any speed as long as it's low.

Linton provided the 25 flypast in 77?

Linton enjoyed a 43 ship stream take off for AOC inspection day.

The bowling alley was in the loft above the accommodation of 1sqn

Night out in York or Sleaford?

We knew how to have fun
Wets

[ShyTorque]

Please don't be rude about the JP3.

Damned thing nearly killed me one day during my BFTS course, but my fault and ham fisted-ness. Stuffed up a stall turn, nose was too low to begin with, so tried to correct it at the point of the stall and presumably had some up elevator. It did something I hadn't seen before; it flicked in the vertical then fell out backwards into an inverted spin. Thankfully, I recognised it because I had previously seen one of those in a Cessna 152 some years before. However, having finally sorted it out (eventually recovered it but then it spun upright going the opposite way) and climbing I realised I'd gone considerably below minimum ejection height for the seat. Lost over 10,000 feet in the process. Having recovered my composure by flying straight and level for a while I RTB'd to Linton. On reporting it to my instructor, in so many words all he said was "Well don't effing well do that again!" Lesson learned!

However, I did later wonder if it was ALL down to me after John West (ex Harrier display pilot) was killed in a JP (actually a Strikemaster), in similar circumstances during a civvie demo flight to a potential buyer.

[Wetstart Dryrun]

Maybe fuel in the tips?

​​​​​​Wets

[ShyTorque]

Maybe fuel in the tips?

​​​​​​Wets

Possibly...I think not in my case though.

[Mach2]

Oh what fun it was at the back end of the '2' for the '25' flypast in '77! As we took off at the tail end of the 25-ship stream (I think, counting spares) the leader was already overhead Leeming, and turning back to the South-East. At least that allowed us to cut the corner to catch up! After that it was a case of 'riding the waves' as they came rippling down the echelon of the '2'.:)

[ShyTorque]

I was lucky enough as a student to fly in the “whipper in” aircraft for what (if my memory is correct) was the final practice formation flight for the “25”. Not much whipping in was needed.

[Wig Wag]

The great Jet Provost T Mk 3 a seen at RAF Linton on Ouse autumn 2004:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1325/dscn8504_7463943e5baef7ba8439705b2c248a794c2bca52.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1325/dscn8511_927fa9a495106c1e7031cbdd22d41910a4b6b906.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1325/dscn8514_66c0667c9573481ff4d8022e84e14b5c368f68ba.jpg


WW.

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

Picture #1 above: That was my Quarter!

Picture #2 above: Pretty much the view out of our lounge window!

:{

[beardy]

Ah the JP Mk3.. Fumes in the cockpit drill, open the canopy....all the way and keep the speed below 140kts (if I remember correctly).... stick elbow out the side and then do one handed barrel roll (still below 140kts.) You couldn't do that in the JP Mk5!!

[sycamore]

Lightest ailerons of all JP/Strikeys....

[AnglianAV8R]

A question comes to mind.... Why didn't they rebuild the JP? Bearing in mind that the JP gave many years of stout service to the flying club, having been converted from a piston engined trainer, I'm thinking why didn't somebody at BWoS suggest a conversion to a sexy modern turbo prop ? Piston Provost becomes jet provost, becomes PT6 - Provost. What could possibly go wrong ?
We never needed Tucano. They could've done the rebuilds at an old shipyard in Belfast.

[Fortissimo]

why didn't somebody at BWoS suggest a conversion to a sexy modern turbo prop ? From what I recall of the debate at the time, BWoS recruited a retired 2* to advise them. This man's genius extended to another side-by-side jet which, as modern engines were so much more efficient than the Viper, could be built to carry half the fuel and still do an hour airborne. Which is what they bid. Unsuccessfully.

The competition was initially won by the PC-9 until the politicians realised it hadn't been designed in Brazil, when suddenly the Tucano became much more attractive. The Belfast dockyard mateys did such a great job of building it they managed to prove the RAF policy of taking apart the first aircraft delivered was a good investment, because it allowed the customer time to complain about the build quality before they got sent too many more of them.

[ExAscoteer2]

BWoS were pushing the PC9 to be built at Brough. We ended up with the TinCan because UK Govt wanted to show commitment to, and investment in, NI.

[treadigraph]

Always thought it a shame the Firecracker didn't get more of a look in and was dropped from the competition fairly early, anyone know why?

[ShyTorque]

Always thought it a shame the Firecracker didn't get more of a look in and was dropped from the competition fairly early, anyone know why?

It was too slow.

[treadigraph]

Oh yes, I see it was a bit of a laggard - T-34C was much the same, presume that's why it was eliminated early on too.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Have really enjoyed this thread - and seeing the pics in #191 had me scurrying for my logbook; only flew XN589 once, on 19 July 1977 (Ex 85, Nav 10, solo around LFA11 for 1h00m). I then retraced a search I did a few years ago to see if I could find the current location of the one I flew my first (ever) solo - XM412. I wonder if she really is still languishing behind a grotty barrier at Balado...

I've noted quite a few names from other posts (I was lucky enough to be a stude on 1 Sqn :ok:); 14 Course were our senior Sqn-mates, while their predecessors (9 Course) were still around during our groundschool phase. I personally thought that 14 had the right attitude when it came to the "Sqn Mascot" provided by 9 - the Boa Constrictor. As soon as 9 were off the base, ISTR that the snake was donated to a local zoo while they kept the gerbils that had been bought as rations for Hissing Sid.

I never had a problem with the "stude for a pissy-little-job"/ "my names Den but you can call me Sir" attitude at Linton - reaching the dizzy heights of L/Cpl in the pongoes before transferring had inured me to all that. Not having flown anything other than a parachute before the JP, I did find it daunting comparing my progress with the crewroom 'aces' who'd had Flying Scholarships or been through UAS. I had a real problem with underconfidence - right up to the formation phase. When I saw what the 'aces' were actually like, I genuinely wondered if I was then just seeing them on a really bad set of days. My (A2) instructor, who eventually followed my path onto rotary, said it was a useful lesson then gave me a stern warning about veering from underconfident to cocky. I heeded his advice then, and always afterwards too - there were some really top-quality instructors at 1FTS, and I will always be grateful for the start they gave me to the best possible career.

[ShyTorque]

Thud, the snake stayed on until 22 course. I’m certain about that because I was designated OIC, as the only person willing to handle it. It eventually went to Knaresborough zoo in my car and an aquarium came in its place (the latter was not of my doing). We were in a flight briefing next door when the bottom literally fell out of the new tank as it was being filled and water came under the wall!

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Thanks, Shy - I have a pic in my album of the gerbils enjoying the sunshine on the grass outside the 1 Sqn studes crewroom during one of those glorious, endless summer '77 afternoons. Did NOT, however, recall the aquarium! You don't happen to remember what happened to the trandem I bought in York, do you? I remember 16 Course attempting to sabotage it (for which read 'vandalise', only young officers don't do that sort of thing - do they?!), and I lost track of it after I was lucky enough to leave for Shawbury after the 3A.

[staircase]

Ah, the snake. Was it not John C., told them it had to go?

I seem to remember that the fish also proved to be a problem. Was there not a feeling that whenever the studes came into the crew room and found one 'floating' that some poor sole (pun?) would get the 'chop' in the very near future?

Was I the only instructor that thought the Systems Approach to Flying Training was a bit of a power grab by the Education Branch?

Ticking all those boxes after each sortie seemed such a waste of time, when you and Bloggs had a pretty good idea on how the day had gone as it was.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

staircase,

As a recipient of the training under the Systems Approach I am inclined to agree. I found the Ground School in particular to be a box-ticking exercise; very little of the stuff I'd not been familiar with prior to starting actually stuck (flight instruments, engines, fuel, hydraulics in my case). I had to wait until doing the ATPL course during extended post-Loan-Service leave (14 weeks!) 7 years later before I actually understood much of it - just in time for my own CFS(H) course which definitely cemented things in place :ok:

When it came to harbingers-of-doom I was surprised how superstitious many of my course-mates seemed to be - apparently 9 Course used to refer to a particular instrumental track (Doina da Jale by Gheorge Zamfir - as used in the film "Picnic at Hanging Rock" that came out around that time) as "The Chopping Song" and would rush to turn the music orft if it came on the radio lest yet another of their number fall by the wayside.

[Specaircrew]

So, what will the ladies from Ripon teachers’ training college do for escorts (and future husbands) now?
Argh, you've just brought back memories of their terrifying 'Emancipation' Disco's where blokes would huddle in groups at the bar trying to avoid getting asked to dance until we'd drunk them all pretty! Yes, OK I'm no 'oil painting' myself :-)

[ShyTorque]

Thud, I’m afraid I can’t recall anything about your trandem!

JC might have had the final word about the snake, but I think it was a course decision to move it to a new home. The majority were actually more attached to its intended prey!

Over the winter break, there apparently was a power cut. The heating bulbs in the snake’s tank went off and didn’t reset when the power came back on. On our return to the Sqn, the snake had gone AWOL. He’d somehow forced the lid open. We searched in vain. Then there was an almighty scream - the cleaner had gone into the entrance lobby to collect her sweeping brush and Hissing Sid appeared at face level. He’d gone up between the back of some lockers and the wall and found a heating pipe to curl up next to, to keep himself warm.

[JENKINS]

I have noted elsewhere my thoughts on the nasty atmosphere which I encountered on my Leeming BFTS course in 1967/68. Even then Linton seemed far more enjoyable. I note other comments; Thud and Blunder undertaking an ATPL course on Loan Service leave. I did the same and found the Oxford Ground School to be jolly interesting, albeit framed on the Britannia. The end result gave me 16 years of freelance GA work prior to my redundancy; wallet appreciated the extra readies. Shame that tax and school fees took such a whack. As for JP4, Sycamore will be aware of my delight in my punishment tour which gave me such freedom on the type in UK and Europe.

[aeroid]

Thud, were you on 1Sqn under Craven's reign.

[idle stop]

Ah, ExAscoteer...the Tincano! Yes, a shame it needed a bigger engine to try to meet the RAF Spec. This in turn caused havoc with the Spin characteristics, and gave a period of busy employment to my FW colleagues at Boscombe Down. For my own famil flight (at Linton!) I recall a comfortable inverted spin but an uncomfortable and oscillatory erect spin. Anyway, ironic that it replaced 'the constant speed, variable noise' machine!

[staircase]

Good morning Idle,

Didn't Al Deacon die spinning it?

[Uncle John]

Good Morning Staircase.
No - structural failure from tailplane flutter caused by external stores.

[Uncle John]

Having said that, he actually died in the sea following his ejection. He was discovered drowned in his lifejacket tangled in his parachute rigging some 2 hours after the accident.

[aeroid]

Ex Ascoteer yes but strictly a member of the Mr Whippy constant thrust variable noise machine. No single engine props for me. I preferred things with four fans and then only because they didn't make them with five.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

aeroid,

Yes, he conducted my JP3A FHT on 25 Jul 77; he also expressed amusement on hearing that my future course-mate on 2FTS was to be one David H-R, with whom he'd served on Canberras previously. My Flt Cdr on 1 Sqn was JG, who a couple of years later returned to rotary and was my boss on A Flt 72 Sqn :ok:

[Fortissimo]

Thud,

I do not know the officer of whom you speak. I do know that if you don't put good people into recruiting and training, all you succeed in doing is dragging everyone down to the same level of mediocrity. I am reminded of my time at the Towers (on a GE), when there was only one member of staff who went on to be relatively senior (gp capt) and even he was uninspiring. And a JP QFI who was barely able to fly the aircraft well enough to teach - a Victor co-pilot deemed unsuitable for command but whose ineptitude was acceptable as a handicap for those at the earliest stages of their flying careers. As ye sow....

[aeroid]

Thanks Thud, I had forgotten about JG, he took over from me when I returned to Air Support Command's Global Pub Crawl. A great guy.

[Idle Reverse]

Thud,

I do not know the officer of whom you speak. I do know that if you don't put good people into recruiting and training, all you succeed in doing is dragging everyone down to the same level of mediocrity. I am reminded of my time at the Towers (on a GE), when there was only one member of staff who went on to be relatively senior (gp capt) and even he was uninspiring. And a JP QFI who was barely able to fly the aircraft well enough to teach - a Victor co-pilot deemed unsuitable for command but whose ineptitude was acceptable as a handicap for those at the earliest stages of their flying careers. As ye sow....

I'm not sure if I’m reading / interpreting this correctly ?

But if the suggestion is that JC (Crayfish) was uninspiring or unpopular, then I couldn’t DISAGREE more ! I didn’t know JC at Linton but I knew him in the Bulldog world and subsequently in a far off sandy place, full of ex- RAF QFIs earning a fortune. The JC I knew well was a super chap; John had a great sense of humour, he was very much a social asset at parties and functions and he was always extremely popular with his students. To those who flew with him, and who might be wondering where he is now, I can tell you that he splits his time between his new home in New Zealand (8 month of the year) and his UK pad in Lincolnshire. I hope to have a catch up beer with him sometime this summer.

Happy days for me at Linton, back in 73-74, with a good bunch of QFIs on 1 Sqn 🤗

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Delighted to hear that John (still 'sir' to me...) is thriving, and that he has the prospect of 2/3 of his time in Aotearoa to get over the exigencies of life in Lincolnshire. He was certainly highly regarded, and respected, by my coursemates and me - you knew you'd been put through the wringer when he conducted a test, but he pitched it exactly right and provided enormous encouragement to me as an underconfident ex-squaddie. Yes, I did encounter one or 2 interesting QFIs (I heard from fellow students about ex-Herc and ex-Victor tanker instructors and their odd little ways) on 1 Sqn - but I was fortunate enough to be shepherded through the course by some excellent A2s. Oh, and JC was absolutely right about David H-R - a real character who was admired in the Puma world; could've gone far but chose not to.

As an aside, in those days of "confidential" reporting we never got to see what actually went into our 5000s. Ten years after finishing at 1 FTS I found myself on loan to the AAC as QHI on an independent Squadron in Cambridgeshire; in the Army, there was no secrecy with their system, everyone had the right to access their records. As custodian of the 5000s for the unit, I spent a while having a look through my own records - fascinating :ooh:. Some real stitch-up reports after flights where, for example, the debrief had been conducted between unstrapping from the Wessex and arriving back in the hangar(!). However, when I went back as far as 1 FTS I learned just how much effort had been put in by the training staff on my behalf. I discovered how much I owed to the previously-mentioned JG as well as messrs SC and DH-E; still grateful :ok:

[Paying Guest]

Fully agree Idle with your assessment of JC from my recollections of him as an instructor on UAS and again from coming across him in said sandy place some 20+ years later. Glad to hear that all is well with him in these strange times.

[wiggy]

26 Course Linton April 1973 Graduation

What happened to you all - it's nearly 50 years ago!


Apologies for being very late on Parade..

John Boxer - V Force then QFI JPs, I shared an office with him at Scampton (CFS) 88-89 and then by chance ran into him again a few years later when I'd escaped to BA and John was heading out to Saudi on one of the BAe instructing deals.

Edit to add:

Just had a "umm" moment this morning, checked logbooks, and I see I flew with a Bernie Mills, ex-Jags, at BA on the 744 about 20 years ago...

[baddowboy]

Re: post 76. That was definitely 21 Course. Left to right: John Hawker, Duncan Davidson, Dick Evans, John Cathie (front), Roy Bouch, Pete Embling, Steve Gorton (front), Bob Middlemas, Graham Hilliard, Paul Bennett and Steve Belcher. I think Phil Roberts joined the course and maybe Geoff Currums? Most of those guys would have been from 310 course at Henlow, John Cathie being Sword of Honour. Wonder where everyone is now?

[ShyTorque]

baddowboy,

I was also on 310 IOT Course at Henlow and should have been on 21 Course BFTS. Instead was sent to Honington* on a holding post until 22 Cse, I think for no better reason that my surname is towards the rear end of the alphabet.

[*What an utterly miserable time I had at Honington on the Buccaneer OCU. Arrived on a Sunday afternoon and was put straight on the ops desk the following morning, mainly working solo. I worked there for 12 hours straight with very little prior briefing on what it was all about. I was allowed no lunch breaks. I was bollocked at every turn for not knowing stuff that no-one had bothered to brief me about. For example: Squawk box beeps: (Sqn Boss) "Book me a LEPUS and TOSS at Jurby!" "Book you a what Sir, and where?". "ARE YOU DEAF? - I SAID A LEPUS AND TOSS AT JURBY!" I had no idea what this was! When I had to ask I was made to feel like a total idiot.
I left there after a couple of months with a very nasty taste in my mouth, confidence at a very low ebb, and a fear of EVER getting posted to Buccaneers. My time there nearly put me off the RAF entirely, before I'd even begun].

[BlackIsle]

Originally posted by FMM910 re 26 Course at Linton where are they now?

Chris Hill went to Oakington and the Varsity. He tells a great story of a ground incident when with another stude in the cockpit on a cold early morning sortie. The Varsity engines seemingly needed some fuel priming to start and it seems Chris was over enthusiastic giving it some extra shots to coax them into life and whilst taxying an engine was seen by the Tower to be on fire. However, they were on a part of the taxiway where r/t was known to be very poor. Chris and his fellow student pilot spotted the Fire crews on the move and chatted to each other about where they were off to and the first Chris and his fellow student pilot knew it was for their aircraft was when they came head to head with the Fire crews and their blue lights! Sometime later at Oakington he changed branch to Air Traffic. He retired as a Wg Cdr and lives in or near Churchdown Gloucestershire and I believe he is a trustee of the nearby Jet Age Museum.

[staircase]

Interesting post blackisle.

As a transporter turned QFI in the mid '70's, I was given given a couple of fast jet famil weeks whilst at Linton, and a couple of spinnex weeks when at CFS.

The experience of seeing the 'attitudes' of fast jet management put me off the job, and instead of encouraging me to cross train, it made me convinced that the heavy world was for me.

[dagama]

I was commissioned at AOTS RAF Church Fenton on 20 September 1968 - 243 course. IIRC, AOTS moved directly to Church Fenton from South Cerney.

Followed the Nav route to Wiltshire. Held at Linton between AOTS and Gaydon, Other holding stations were Leeming and Valley. All courtesy of P2 at HQ TC at Brampton.

[whoateallthepies]

Baddowboy
I was also on 21 course, back-coursed from 18 after airsickness rehabilitation. Myself and Phil Roberts made the smart move to helicopters!
For our end of JP3 knees-up we went to Wakefield Theatre Club. I was at a table with instructors Dick Mott and Al Riley, plus fellow students John Cathie and Steve Belcher. Within 5 years they all died in crashes.

I've just retired after 41 years of flying!

[whoateallthepies]

1977 my old Dad visited me at the weekend and filmed the "25" formation (Queens Silver Jubilee) taxi and depart.

Sorry for the quality. I rescued the film from his loft and had it digitised!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ivJygulPOQEok6Z-2Y4IzDXgjh183ta7/view?usp=drivesdk

[Notquiteairworthy]

I was also on this course and remember all these charaters. Sadly I didn't make the end cut, but had a fun year. My flying didn't progress too well after returning from a sortie with bits of the plane missing ops!! John Cathie was my training buddy; he was streets head of me though. Five of us also had a weeks sail training during Cowes week including John Cathie and Steve Belcher who were both invloved in fatal air acidents soon after; they died too young. Other memorable occasions were the trips to the Star in York, the summer ball where we invited a bus load of French students over from Ripon College and the inter-squadron chariot race that turned into a riot. Got one or two pics if anyone is interested.

[beamer]

Fabulous year at Linton even if I was always at the lower end of the ability stakes and failed the odd test or two. Ripon, York Nurse’s home, The Starr on a Saturday lunchtime, summer ball, survival course up at Malham Tarn, trying to get one car started on a Friday afternoon so we could jump start the next one……great days.

Still flying forty plus years later !

[Maxibon]

ShyTorque I did exactly the same at CF in a Mk3. Having never seen nor been in an inverted spin, it didn't come out until about 2,500ft. I should've been out at 110(?) as a solo stude but I was sh*t scared of getting a bollocking for stoofing a jet. I was 20 yo and remarkable stupid.