View Full Version : 90 days in EU after 1st Jan.
bohpilot
30th Nov 2020, 16:34
For the UK contingent on here, how do you think the max 90 day rule in the EU is going to affect aircrew that are still employed
in the EU. I have reached through the ruling and it does mention aircrew on working duty but not off duty.
SaulGoodman
30th Nov 2020, 17:23
shouldn’t a working permit from the respective matter solve that issue?
oldchina
30th Nov 2020, 17:26
"how do you think the max 90 day rule in the EU is going to affect aircrew that are still employed in the EU"
Employed in the EU means living in the EU, tax resident in the EU?
Joe le Taxi
30th Nov 2020, 17:42
Yes, it's simple. If you're registered as resident in an EU country by the end of the year, then you can continue to live and work there (that specific country). If you're not, you can't.
If you mean freelancing or a secondment or detachment to an EU base, I think it would be ok, limited to 90 days? On the other hand, American FedEx and ups crews seem to get much longer. Not sure how that works.
Globally Challenged
30th Nov 2020, 17:52
How about employed by a UK company with a UK home base / gateway, for an EU AOC spending up to 200 days a year flying (and overnight) away from base in and around the EU?
wiggy
30th Nov 2020, 18:04
Yes, it's simple. If you're registered as resident in an EU country by the end of the year, then you can continue to live and work there (that specific country). If you're not, you can't.
It'll no doubt vary from EU country by country due national differences (I know that comment will shock some) but where I am it's a case of being resident in country (and be able to prove it) by end of this year and having an application in for a residence permit by end July '21.
..and as you say if you successfully go through the registration process that should give you the right to live and work in that specific country.
No idea how "postings" etc are going to be handled.
Dannyboy39
30th Nov 2020, 18:11
As such RYR are not recruiting crew from the U.K. at the moment because they rely on sending manpower across the network.
Also for those who are participating in business travel, there are different rules for each country.
It isn’t just 90 days and a visa run. You have to pay back 90 days (so for example if you do a trip to France from 1st Jan to 30th Mar, you cannot re-enter until around 1st July for all Schengen countries, not just one.
What are we gaining out of this? Some bloody fish.
SpamCanDriver
30th Nov 2020, 19:08
Think you will find RYR aren't recruiting anyone at the moment.
But given they have a sizeable UK operation, would love to know how u think they will crew it. With a recruitment ban on UK residents.
Well hopefully a return to a scientifically backed FTL scheme for one. But I am partial to a fish or 2
OldLurker
30th Nov 2020, 19:27
As wiggy says, it'll vary by country. After 1 January, unless you're already resident in an EU country by then, and unless the UK and EU make a deal that covers this area, you apply or a work permit from the indivual EU country where you hope to be employed - or your prospective employer applies for you.
Work permits - Your Europe (https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/work/work-abroad/work-permits/index_en.htm)
What are we gaining out of this? Some bloody fish.Yes, well, don't forget that those bloody fish are equally desperately politically important to a few EU countries, especially France, or they wouldn't be such an issue in the negotiations.
Denti
30th Nov 2020, 20:22
The 90 day rule does apply for vacation stays only anyway. If you want to work in the EU, if you still have no residency, you need a work visa, which has to be applied for in every country of the EU separately. The rules for those vary wildly and the process can be very long, complicated, costly and frankly impossible as the employer might have to prove he cannot find EU citizens able to do the job.
Anyone who has a job in the EU before 31st of december and moved there before that day, should be able to apply for residency and stay in the EU, however, that might have some rules as well including maximum amount of days out of that country or one could lose residency rights.
giggitygiggity
30th Nov 2020, 22:29
How about employed by a UK company with a UK home base / gateway, for an EU AOC spending up to 200 days a year flying (and overnight) away from base in and around the EU?
Which sort of flying are you referring to? Freight ops? Have many/any UK based/owend carriers set up EU AOCs for this purpose? As far as I know, if you're based in the UK, you won't be able to fly under an EU AOC or EU registered aircraft after Jan 1st unless there is a deal beyond the WTO default rules.
Consol
30th Nov 2020, 22:31
Yay! Taking back control! Slogans on a bus, blue passport. All stirred up by a few oligarchs, media owners and a fringe party of street fighters. What could possibly go wrong?
Journey Man
1st Dec 2020, 07:55
giggitygiggity
Non-scheduled commercial air transport often has more complex working setups due to contractual gateway agreements.
Mike Oxbig
1st Dec 2020, 09:25
giggitygiggity
Sounds like a large fractional company based in Portugal.
Private jet
1st Dec 2020, 14:47
Or a large (ish) charter company based in Malta...
Is there any more thoughts on this - or could someone provide a link to any document that states if whether Flight Crew based in the UK (and a UK national) operate a day-trip to the EU area, does that count as a Schengen entry, ditto for a tour + nightstop etc, or are there exemptions for operating crew? My wife and kids live in the EU so this could impinge how often I get to see them.
Banana Joe
3rd Jan 2021, 19:23
If you mean freelancing or a secondment or detachment to an EU base, I think it would be ok, limited to 90 days? On the other hand, American FedEx and ups crews seem to get much longer. Not sure how that works.
This shall come to an end one day I hope.
https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/6891/html/ (https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/6891/html/?fbclid=IwAR0xFyRbG8ixw9UFN8NJBx9JjkFh25Xa7ksg64TD29tM_qmMFf fdLXTnvtw)
The day you enter and leave the EU counts. This written evidence to Parliament as an example states business travel is included.
Twiglet1
4th Jan 2021, 16:50
Think you will find RYR aren't recruiting anyone at the moment.
But given they have a sizeable UK operation, would love to know how u think they will crew it. With a recruitment ban on UK residents.
Well hopefully a return to a scientifically backed FTL scheme for one. But I am partial to a fish or 2
Great so there are hardly any AOC's left in the UK and you want the good old days of CAP371 and Douglas Bader - do you want Flight Engineers also.
Come on then I've taken the bait what's wrong with EASA FTL....
Anyone have any answers about the 90/180 from your own airline. I've asked mine but no reply.