Virgin Atlantic Boeing 747 History

[EZYA319]

Hi everyone,

Currently writing an article for a UK aviation magazine looking back at the history of the Boeing 747 within Virgin Atlantic’s fleet and was hoping I may be able to have a little chat with any Virgin Atlantic ex 747 flight crew who would be ok to answer a few simple questions about life flying the queen of the skies.
Thanks in advance.

[rog747]

Hi everyone,

Currently writing an article for a UK aviation magazine looking back at the history of the Boeing 747 within Virgin Atlantic’s fleet and was hoping I may be able to have a little chat with any Virgin Atlantic ex 747 flight crew who would be ok to answer a few simple questions about life flying the queen of the skies.
Thanks in advance.

I'm not Flight Deck but worked from 1988 closely with the original Virgin 747 Classics from when they had just 2 in the beginning, ending up with 8 Jumbos by 1990.
Flight Crew was 2 Pilots and a Flight engineer, with 17 or 18 Cabin Crew - The Cabin Crew number got reduced over the years to around 16 to 14.
A beauty therapist was part of the Cabin Crew on most flights.
The Tokyo flights saw local Japanese Cabin crew employed and 2 or 3 girls were rostered on a NRT.
IIRC a ''heavy'' Flight Deck crew of 5 was rostered for the long NRT flights.
Before the better performing 747's were obtained the LGW-NRT VS901 flew via SVO Moscow for a while, but with no local traffic rights.

The Virgin Boeing 747-200B fleet was 7 aircraft by 1990, plus a sole -100 series -
G-VIRG G-VGIN were the first pair flying from Gatwick to EWR, MIA and also charter flights were flown LGW to MCO
G-TKYO G-VRGN came next from SQ with JT9-7Q higher powered engines with better fuel economy and range. This pair opened up Tokyo and LAX.
G-VJFK G-VLAX came from QF
G-VMIA (their only 747-100 and had an underfloor galley and only 3 UD windows)
This was in a high density seating config of 14J/474Y and was solely intended for MIA and MCO flights.
G-VOYG was the last -200B to follow from British Airways/Caledonian, an early build ex SAS 747-283B still with 3 UD windows.
(all were second-hand with various history)

These 747's all had names -
The first pair were maiden voyager and scarlet lady,
followed by maiden Japan, maid of honour,
Boston belle but I'm sure she was jersey girl for a short time, California girl,
G-VMIA was Miami maiden which was renamed spirit of sir Freddie (In honour of Freddie Laker)
and lastly, shady lady.

I left just before the first brand new 747-400's were delivered from Boeing via ILFC for summer 1994.
Later at the end of the 90's Virgin startered to retire the old Pratt & Whitney powered 747 Classics and replaced them with newer Rolls Royce powered examples.
2 747-267B's were obtained from Cathay Pacific, and the whole Air New Zealand fleet of 5 747-219B's were purchased and all were refurbished to Virgin standards and comfort.
Sadly post 9/11 all of these 7 aircraft got parked, then retired quite quickly and sold on.

Virgin went on to obtain at rock bottom prices in 2001 5 brand new factory fresh 747-443's which had been built and completed for Alitalia but NTU by them at the last minute.
These 5 a/c were at first, and then for much of their lives dedicated to LGW with high density seating, with a quite basic Nova IFE suite.
They were used on the Virgin Holidays Leisure routes to MIA, MCO, LAS, and to many of the Caribbean Islands, including Jamaica, The Bahamas, Cuba and Cancun Mexico.
Virgin never flew to the Dominican Republic, unlike British Airways who flies to PUY, but Virgin did fly cruise ship charters to SJU San Juan Puerto Rico.

Some of these routes were also flown from MAN (plus out of GLA & BFS in high season)
It was not uncommon in high season to see at least a handful of Virgin 747-400's all parked on the ground together at MCO Orlando.

I am meeting up next week with some old VS Flight Deck and ground colleagues and we are flying the Virgin 747-400 SIM at CAE Burgess Hill for some fun and nostalgia.
If you have any Q's do let me know and we will try and get responses.

[Cornish Jack]

After 9 years with BA.(Tristar and 747-400) their employment terms meant I had to leave, so I went to Virgin on their 744 training. What a difference! Vastly better working provision but a real eye-opener as to the range of differences between externally similar aircraft types. Engines, obviously, but things like APU operating and other peripheral areas which meant a lot of re-shuffling of the memory bank! Had 3 very happy years and would have stayed longer had it not been for the knock-on effect of 9/11. Can't complain of constant employment from 17 to 66 though.

[LOMCEVAK]

Hi everyone,

Currently writing an article for a UK aviation magazine looking back at the history of the Boeing 747 within Virgin Atlantic’s fleet and was hoping I may be able to have a little chat with any Virgin Atlantic ex 747 flight crew who would be ok to answer a few simple questions about life flying the queen of the skies.
Thanks in advance.
I flew the 'Classic' for VS from June 1999 to October 2001. Check your PMs if you would like to contact me. Great machine!

[PAXboy]

Very interesting and it would be great if the final printed article could be referenced in here.

I recall my first with the airline: October 1986 LGW-EWR. There was a promotional deal on at the time, I had just stasrted work in The City and was in Upper but my wife was in Y ... she did not mind as she got a free round trip, the Limo and we stayed at the Vista Hotel at World Trade!!!

One memorable trip (also LGW-EWR) was when they ontroduced personal Video-8 players in UC. This was their first move away from the single big screen movie. I recall that the CC were rather perplexed by them as it was their first rotation with the units and they could not answer all the pax questions. I was working in technology at the time and explained how they worked!

I have been on their -100, -200 and -400 in Upper and Y, always a delight. When they started HKG (my first there was 1994) it was 343 and the South African service (my first in 1997), was mostly 343s then 600s but recall Upper on a 744 in 2002.

[Una Due Tfc]

I recall reading that their first 747 was ex Lufty, which is why she almost never went tech in the early years, greatly assisting their OTP.

[treadigraph]

G-VIRG was ex Aerolineas Argentinas. G-VGIN was ex Alitalia,

[Una Due Tfc]

Ah well there you go, don't believe everything you read on PPRUNE so!

[rog747]

I recall reading that their first 747 was ex Lufty, which is why she almost never went tech in the early years, greatly assisting their OTP.


One of BCAL's came from LH but not sure if that 747 was their first -
2 others came from Wardair, and 2 from Alia - those all had GE engines - the LH a/c was PW.

[rog747]

PAXboy

High Season periods (Xmas/NY Jan/Feb) you will recall one would see the Virgin 744's on the JNB and CPT which were normally the domain of the 340-300's (until the -600 came along)
NRT was again Airbus once the 340's came along, as was HKG.
If a 747 was ever used it was usually for some Promo.

I think the Lagos saw a 747 now and again.

[EZYA319]

Thanks everyone for your fantastic responses. I really appreciate them!

[CAEBr]

EZYA, I presume you are aware of John Balmforth's 2009 book - Virgin Atlantic (ISBN 978 1 85780 303 7) Some useful background and information although it doesn't have the personal inputs you will get from crew contacts via this thread.

[Cornish Jack]

The mention of VA 'going tech' reminds me that, in the early days, delayed flights were met, on arrival, by RB himself, to offer apologies! The 'Bearded One' seems to get almost universal Bad Press but, after BA, there was much to appreciate. One year, self and SWMBO went to his (then) annual 'At Home' Garden Party. We arrived quite late to find a chalked notice at the gate saying something like " It's 3'o clock and my hand is aching so I'm off for a beer - make yourselves very welcome" He had been at the gate most of the day, shaking hands with staff arriving. The 3 day 'jolly' apparently 'entertained close to 10.000 guests - quite impressive staff relations.

[EZYA319]

EZYA, I presume you are aware of John Balmforth's 2009 book - Virgin Atlantic (ISBN 978 1 85780 303 7) Some useful background and information although it doesn't have the personal inputs you will get from crew contacts via this thread.

Yes I already had a copy which is proving very useful thank you.

[PAXboy]

If possible, EZYA319, do slot in how a certain big airline finally had to give up their spoilt brat tactics and compete! They had to improve their cabins and service and, ultimately, benefitted. Much of their corporate activity was the SOP of:

Undermine / Bad mouth
Cut prices
Squeeze out the competition
If that does not work, buy them up and then shut them down
etcetera

You see this in all large corporates trying to protect their monopoly. Food and drinks companies, supermarkets, IT, newspapers - they all do it.

[WHBM]

Who was the Prime Minister (John Major ?) visiting the US President in Washington, early 1990s. Standing at Andrews AFB were the PM, President, and SofS for Transport (or similar). In front of them were the RAF VC-10 and the 747 Air Force One.

PM : "Have to say Mr President your aircraft is very impressive".
SofS : "Oh Prime Minister, I'll have to introduce you to Mr Richard Branson, he's got eight of them".

[bean]

Who was the Prime Minister (John Major ?) visiting the US President in Washington, early 1990s. Standing at Andrews AFB were the PM, President, and SofS for Transport (or similar). In front of them were the RAF VC-10 and the 747 Air Force One.

PM : "Have to say Mr President your aircraft is very impressive".
SofS : "Oh Prime Minister, I'll have to introduce you to Mr Richard Branson, he's got eight of them".
Better to introduce him to Lord King and sir Colin Marshall. They had more than fifty at the time

[WHBM]

G-VMIA, the only -100 series aircraft in the fleet, had a notable background, which I'm sure others had more experience of and have more detail. Originally with American Airlines in 1970, they latterly didn't make a lot of use of them on US domestics, and it was handed back to the lessor, where it hung around for several years getting odd short-term leases. This was the aircraft that Randolph Fields picked up, as despite its low hours it was the cheapest on the market, following his pioneering Virgin bust-up with SRB, for his own abortive Highland Express operation Stansted-Prestwick-JFK in 1987, as G-HIHO. The most unreliable 747 ever, it became renowned, even into the national press, for going tech, very difficult when it's your only aircraft and your maintenance contract is in Brussels. Lasted less than a year, it went back to odd sub-leases until finally Virgin picked it up in 1990 now as G-VMIA and ran it for the next 10 years. I understand they spent a considerable amount on it, new interior, D-check, whatever, but to the end it was the most unreliable and highest maintenance unit in the fleet. Among the first of the fleet to be withdrawn, nobody else wanted it and it was scrapped, well before 9/11.

[Wunwing]

The 747 100 spent it time between Highland Express and Virgin with Qantas as VH-EEI. It was Qantas' only 747 100 and was a bit of an orphan, particularly with 2 lower lobe galleys. Rumor was that is was obtained to keep another Australian domestic operator from getting it.

Qantas in turn sub leased it to Air Pacific of Fiji in which Qantas had a 50% share at the time. In its early days it was a real problem child and after one adventurous day as an FE on it, I was marched up to the Qantas CP's office by the Air Pacific CP to tell him how bad it was. At the time the FEs on the operation were Qantas loaners.

From then on Qantas spent a fortune on it and when RB eventually took it of our hands it was a good aircraft. It even had 4 identical series engines on it. When we got it it had 3 different types which was a bit sporty on takeoff.

Wunwing

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

G-HIHO flew for Highland Express from STN/BHX-PIK-EWR and at the very end, ex LGW. It had a very troublesome no 1 engine which would be started first, whine into action but not really start then wind down. The other three would then be started and then no 1 would be cross bled started and come on line. It did not inspire confidence.

[Wunwing]

That's interesting about #1. I was to take it from Christchurch to Sydney on Christmas Day after an overnight. When we got to the airport the aircraft was solidly iced with no deicing gear available as its summer time.
When we started number #1 it ran for 2 minutes and shut down so we immediately thought spar valve not open. Never did get it to run on Christmas day but the next day when we came back there was no problems despite no maintenance whatsoever.

[WHBM]

Another off-topic tale (sorry, original poster !). Back in the 1990s there was an aviation enthusiasts etc bookshop on the main King Street in Twickenham, just a couple of miles from Heathrow, I think run by a man called Smith. By its position it also got a fair number from the industry come through. Smith was one of those characters who liked to tell lengthy stories that sounded rather improbable but later turned out to be correct. He said that one day a few years before, so 1980s, he had several browsers in his shop when in came Freddie Laker, after Laker Airways went under, who came in from time to time. They got into conversation about what he was doing. "Come to see a 747, aircraft xxxx, thinking of doing something with it" says Freddie. Voice from a book browser at the back of the shop "If I were you I wouldn't touch xxxx, it's a right Lemon". Sudden silence. Fred goes over, introductions, and they have a lengthy word.

Now I said, hearing this, that Fred never ran 747s. "No, he was advising someone else" was the answer. But it all fits for dates, Freddie, long-established aircraft trader from pre-Laker Airways days (Aviation Traders Ltd at Southend) now being a consultant, it just being the time when Randolph Fields was looking at the market (possibly even for Virgin at its startup, or shortly after for HEX), and a 747 which was indeed "a right Lemon". Anyone else remember that shop ?

[Mooncrest]

Forgive me for going off-thread but I have heard similar tales of the reliability problems of one of Britannia's Advanced 737s, G-BAZI. I don't know the particular issues with ZI but she was offloaded to Airways Cymru at a time when Britannia was still operating it's earliest standard 737s, e.g. AVRL. They must have had a good reason for getting rid.

[Groundloop]

The 747 100 spent it time between Highland Express and Virgin with Qantas as VH-EEI. It was Qantas' only 747 100 and was a bit of an orphan, particularly with 2 lower lobe galleys. Rumor was that is was obtained to keep another Australian domestic operator from getting it.

Qantas in turn sub leased it to Air Pacific of Fiji in which Qantas had a 50% share at the time. In its early days it was a real problem child and after one adventurous day as an FE on it, I was marched up to the Qantas CP's office by the Air Pacific CP to tell him how bad it was. At the time the FEs on the operation were Qantas loaners.

From then on Qantas spent a fortune on it and when RB eventually took it of our hands it was a good aircraft. It even had 4 identical series engines on it. When we got it it had 3 different types which was a bit sporty on takeoff.

Wunwing

Didn't realise until now that the only two -100s I have flown on were actually the same aircraft! Flew on VH-EEI from Singapore to Perth in 1989 the from Gatwick to Boston and back on G-VMIA in 1999.

[WHBM]

Let's try what I think is their 747 fleet

1 Airline Type Sub Cn1 Cn2 Reg In From Out To notes
2
3 Virgin Atlantic B747 287B 21189 274 G-VIRG Jun 84 dealer Sep 01 Kabo Air
4 Virgin Atlantic B747 243B 19732 134 G-VGIN Jan 86 CAAC Oct 01 Kabo Air
5 Virgin Atlantic B747 212B 21939 449 G-TKYO Mar 89 Singapore AL Dec 94 Tower Air
6 Virgin Atlantic B747 212B 21937 419 G-VRGN Aug 89 Singapore AL Feb 95 Tower Air
7 Virgin Atlantic B747 283B 20121 167 G-VOYG Feb 90 Caledonian Nov 98 scrapped
8 Virgin Atlantic B747 123 20108 87 G-VMIA Mar 90 Air Pacific Jan 00 scrapped
9 Virgin Atlantic B747 238B 20842 238 G-VJFK Feb 91 Qantas Jul 01 Kabo Air
10 Virgin Atlantic B747 238B 20921 241 G-VLAX May 91 Qantas Jul 01 Kabo Air

11 Virgin Atlantic B747 267B/RR 22872 566 G-VCAT Oct 98 Cathay Pac Oct 03 dealer
12 Virgin Atlantic B747 267B/RR 23048 582 G-VRUM Oct 98 Cathay Pac Oct 03 dealer
13 Virgin Atlantic B747 219B/RR 22723 527 G-VBEE Apr 99 Air NZ Oct 01 Air Atlanta
14 Virgin Atlantic B747 219B/RR 22722 523 G-VZZZ Jul 99 Air NZ Mar 02 Transaero
15 Virgin Atlantic B747 219B/RR 22791 568 G-VIBE Sep 99 Air NZ Mar 02 dealer
16 Virgin Atlantic B747 219B/RR 22725 563 G-VPUF Mar 00 Air NZ May 02 dealer
17 Virgin Atlantic B747 219B/RR 22724 528 G-VSSS May 00 Air NZ May 05 Air Atlanta last VS 742 TF-ABW Jan 02-Jan 04
18 Virgin Atlantic B747 267B/RR 22530 531 TF-ABA Jan 01 le Air Atlanta Oct 01 ret
19
20 Virgin Atlantic B747 4Q8 24958 1028 G-VFAB Apr 94 New Sep 15 scrapped
21 Virgin Atlantic B747 4Q8 26326 1043 G-VHOT Oct 94 New Jan 16 scrapped
22 Virgin Atlantic B747 4Q8 26255 1081 G-VBIG Jun 96 New Nov 19 scrapped
23 Virgin Atlantic B747 4Q8 28194 1100 G-VTOP Jan 97 New Mar 13 Orient Thai
24 Virgin Atlantic B747 41R 28757 1117 G-VAST Jun 97 New Mar 20 wfu
25 Virgin Atlantic B747 41R 29406 1177 G-VXLG Sep 98 New Mar 20 wfu
26 Virgin Atlantic B747 443 30885 1268 G-VROS Mar 01 New Mar 20 wfu
27 Virgin Atlantic B747 443 32337 1272 G-VGAL Apr 01 New Mar 20 wfu
28 Virgin Atlantic B747 443 32338 1274 G-VLIP May 01 New Mar 20 wfu
29 Virgin Atlantic B747 443 32339 1275 G-VROM May 01 New Mar 20 wfu
30 Virgin Atlantic B747 443 32340 1277 G-VROY Jun 01 New May 20 wfu last VS 747
31 Virgin Atlantic B747 41R 32745 1287 G-VWOW Oct 01 New Oct 15 wfu
32 Virgin Atlantic B747 41R 32746 1336 G-VROC Oct 03 New Apr 16 wfu

Pasted out of a spreadsheet. Possibly best if pasted back into one.

[bbrown1664]

I recall while I was at BA we were all sent to a meeting in the old helicopter hangar where BA were telling us all bout their 3 biggest competitors. One was PanAm, I cannot remember the second but the third was Virgin. We did laugh at that point as they only had two aircraft and we were servicing them. That said, even as lowly engineers we could see how much better the cabins were compared to the BA aircraft. Not a patch on BCal but Bcal were history by then

[Wunwing]

WHBM
Looking at my logbook and aussieairliers.org it is more accurate to say that HIHO/EEI/VMIA was operated by Qantas rather than Air Pacific. All the images that I can see shows it in Air Pacific colours for its whole time, but from memory and records it flew mainly Qantas services and except for the the change to Irish for a short period it was VH registered.

I suspect that once Air Pacific commenced NRT services it was" a bridge too far" for the old girl.During that period Qantas often had at least 2 aircraft in Air Pacific colours even though they never had more than one on the Fiji service. The Fijian pilots for most of the time held Australian licenses and the FEs were Australian from Qantas and later a hire company.

Wunwing

[WHBM]

We did laugh at that point as they only had two aircraft and we were servicing them.
The "we were servicing them" comment is notable, because in their early times Virgin subcontracted a lot of work out to BA, and BA were happy to take the work. Not just maintenance. Didn't BA host the Virgin reservations for the early years ?

[EZYA319]

Love reading all these responses, thank you all so much. I will keep you informed of when the article is published.

And no problem re the going off-thread, still makes an interesting read for this geek!

[DaveReidUK]

Didn't BA host the Virgin reservations for the early years ?

Yes - one of the "dirty tricks" that BA was accused of at the time was accessing commercially sensitive information about Virgin held in BABS.

[MAC 40612]

Early on in their Boeing 747 operations, Virgin maintenance checks were carried out by BCAL. Then BCAL got bought out by BA and BA Engineering found themselves carrying out a number of checks on Virgin Boeing 747s at LHR as it would have cost BA a lot of money to default on the contract.

[rog747]

WHBM
Virgin in summer 1993 also leased from ANZ for 6 months a 747-219B that was painted up in full Virgin colours (all white, red tail, large flying lady) and used on the Miami.
ZK-NZX
(In 1999 VS bought all 5 ANZ 747-219's)

When Dan Air had bad delays one summer (1991 or 92) we did a few sub-charters at night to play catch up for them to Faro, TFS, and Palma.

VIRGIN ATLANTIC BOEING 747-400 ROUTES

From - LGW LHR MAN GLA BFS

To-
MCO MIA
EWR JFK BOS LAX SFO IAD ATL
NAS
BGI ANU UVF TAB GND
KIN MBJ
HAV VRA SJU
CUN

CPT JNB LOS
NRT HKG

747-4Q8 (ILFC)
G-VFAB LADY PENELOPE
G-VBIG TINKER BELLE
G-VHOT TUBULAR BELLE
G-VTOP VIRGINIA PLAIN

747-4IR
G-VXLG RUBY TUESDAY
G-VWOW COSMIC GIRL
G-VAST LADYBIRD
G-VROC MUSTANG SALLY

747-443 (GECAS, built and completed for Alitalia but NTU, flown to AKL for repaint and reconfigure for VS)
G-VLIP HOT LIPS
G-VROY PRETTY WOMAN
G-VGAL JERSEY GIRL
G-VROM BARBARELLA
G-VROS ENGLISH ROSE

The 747-443 fleet were mainly dedicated to the LGW & MAN leisure routes to Florida, The Caribbean and Mexico, operating in a Low J, High density W Premium and Y Economy seating configuration.

3 747-443's all shiny and new at AKL in 2001


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1240x696/1593137516983_65c1be462c8dbb3105d77cd656ad3d6121fc870e.jpg
all shiny & new at Auckland 2001

[BBK]

G-VXLG has just been ferried to TLV. Presumably a freighter conversion?

[farefield]

Here is a nice tribute to a retiring VA skipper who had flown G-HIHO with Highland and then flew G-VMIA when it joined Virgin's fleet.

​​​​​​https://blog.virginatlantic.com/extraordinary-flying-stories-mike-abu-nayla/