Changes at RAAF Point Cook

[Centaurus]

Heard via the grapevine that the RAAF are expanding their numbers at Point Cook and returning it to a fully operational base. Rumour only. if so, will that affect current civilian flying training operarions at that aerodrome? Will RAAF Museum operations be affected?

[Going Boeing]

That will generate a lot of noise complaint activity as there are now dwellings very close to the base. In my time as an ab-initio pilot there were paddocks around the base where we conducted PFL’s - it would be hard to do “surprise” PFL’s now.

[wheels_down]

Might only be a few thousands Karen’s of Sanctuary Lakes to deal with. Good luck.

[CoodaShooda]

Would love to see F35's operate from there, if only for the Karens' sake.

[Andy_G]

The flying club there has been asked to leave by early next year. It had traditionally been located at Point Cook and is currently looking for a new home to continue providing (very) affordable aviation.
End of an era (50-ish years).:sad:

[ACMS]

Call Lindsay Fox.....move to AVV.?

[Dora-9]

Centaurus, you do have your ear close to the ground! There are lots of rumours swirling around about this; what I've heard is definitely third-hand (which I'll repeat because this is a Rumour Network after all).

The museum itself is apparently to remain unchanged but all flying assets (which I suspect will also include those at Temora) to become part of a new RAAF Squadron (I believe this will be 100 Squadron). The implication here is that the aircraft can then only be flown by Air Force pilots; there's already apparently much schmoozing going on with important/rich people so doubtless some exemption will be engineered for Mr Lowy. Also allegedly the Roulettes leader is already chasing the Mustang slot.

There are now a lot of very unhappy people at Point Cook who have contributed years of voluntary labour there. This understandable angst isn't helped by the attitude displayed towards them by the designated CO; not only is he firmly of the belief that ONLY the RAAF can fly aircraft but he's not a particularly nice man either. Actually IMHO he's an amazingly poor choice.

[ACMS]

Centaurus, you do have your ear close to the ground! There are lots of rumours swirling around about this; what I've heard is definitely third-hand (which I'll repeat because this is a Rumour Network after all).

The museum itself is apparently to remain unchanged but all flying assets (which I suspect will also include those at Temora) to become part of a new RAAF Squadron (I believe this will be 100 Squadron). The implication here is that the aircraft can then only be flown by Air Force pilots; there's already apparently much schmoozing going on with important/rich people so doubtless some exemption will be engineered for Mr Lowy. Also allegedly the Roulettes leader is already chasing the Mustang slot.

There are now a lot of very unhappy people at Point Cook who have contributed years of voluntary labour there. This understandable angst isn't helped by the attitude displayed towards them by the designated CO; not only is he firmly of the belief that ONLY the RAAF can fly aircraft but he's not a particularly nice man either. Actually IMHO he's an amazingly poor choice.

well that’s terrible. Hopefully common sense prevails.......but I’m not holding my breath.

[cattletruck]

the designated CO; not only is he firmly of the belief that ONLY the RAAF can fly aircraft but he's not a particularly nice man either.

These types of people are usually placed in these positions by others to achieve their own clandestine goals. I found the Point Cook volunteers to be superb with their upkeep of the museum and its assets, and would recommend they don't drop their bundle and walk out but rather recognise the politics of hot air for what it is and rally for keeping some of their own turf intact.

Meanwhile said hot head should be repurposed for getting the Laverton airfield back from greedy developers, it would certainly justify all that lustre in his medals.

[ruprecht]

See, now I’m intrigued. :p

I’ll have to start asking my usual sources for a name...

[Beez51]

Name might start with B. Flew C130s.

[Dora-9]

I've been hearing DS.

[Sunfish]

Dora - 9: There are now a lot of very unhappy people at Point Cook who have contributed years of voluntary labour there. This understandable angst isn't helped by the attitude displayed towards them by the designated CO; not only is he firmly of the belief that ONLY the RAAF can fly aircraft but he's not a particularly nice man either. Actually IMHO he's an amazingly poor choice.

I know the type, having worked for two of them. Most unpleasant. That is why I have some dislike for the RAAF as an organisation. Little Hitlers don't survive in the Army Officer Corps because enlisted men have ways of "getting even" that weeds them out. The Navy is the same - we always got on well with sailors. RAAF were always prickly, part of which I understand comes from dealing with high priced equipment that had so called safety margins that would be unacceptably slim elsewhere. However there were a few of these rigid concrete thinkers with similar personalities that no one could make an impression on and anyone who tried was automatically an enemy......

[minigundiplomat]

Point Cook is the top postcode in Australia for ecommerce deliveries (Australia Post Report 2020). Probably because the residents can't leave the post code to go shopping due to the traffic.

[Pinky the pilot]

enlisted men

You mean 'other ranks' don'tcha? I wasn't aware that the Australian Armed Forces were now using the American term 'enlisted men.'

[Climb150]

I had a visit to Point Cook mid naughties and remember someone saying that the CO didn't like the smell of microwave popcorn so had banned it on the base.

Something in that for all of us.

[Centaurus]

Also allegedly the Roulettes leader is already chasing the Mustang slot.

He/she shouldn't have any trouble flying the Mustang. After all a whole bunch of newly graduated RAAF pilots with only 210 hours in their log books went straight on to Mustangs having alreay flown Wirraways on course.

[Dora-9]

That wasn't the point, Centaurus.

[Slezy9]

What is your point?

[junior.VH-LFA]

What is your point?

Don’t worry about wasting your time. Anyone this ignorant isn’t worth arguing with 😂

[Dora-9]

Centaurus and Slezy9 - maybe I could have written my earlier post better?

I was not RAAF-bashing. I have flown with a considerable number of ex-RAAF pilots, I've never had cause to doubt their competence and generally I've found them to be thoroughly nice people as well. I've certainly made some good friends amongst them.

I was trying to highlight (and generate sympathy for) the great angst amongst the volunteers at Point Cook who have for many years have selflessly devoted their time and energies maintaining and flying those aircraft. Their feelings are not exactly being assuaged by attitude of the designated 100 Squadron CO (or so I'm repeatedly told).

My comment about the Roulettes leader was simply to illustrate the jockeying that one would assume is now going on within the RAAF to get to fly the Pt Cook and Temora "treasures". There was NO other implication.

[Vag277]

Office Update
Do you know any of the crew personally? By your descriptions, I suspect not.

[Centaurus]

That wasn't the point, Centaurus.
:
Originally Posted by Slezy9 View Post (https://www.pprune.org/showthread.php?p=10934951#post10934951)
What is your point?
Don’t worry about wasting your time. Anyone this ignorant isn’t worth arguing with 😂
Apologies for the perceived lack of sensitivity. It was my attempt at a joke which unfortunately fell flat. Time to lighten up a bit maybe?

[josephfeatherweight]

Don't worry, Centaurus, nobody was feeling any angst towards your post, I'm pretty sure - and the post referring to ignorance was DEFINITELY not aimed at you.
There's some predictable friction building over perceptions/realities of the RAAF "moving back in" and side-shoving the valuable volunteers who have contributed much at Point Cook.
Hopefully, it doesn't actually play out like that and a happy, mutually beneficial, coexistence can develop.
I would love the RAAF to re-establish themselves at Point Cook - their home! I think it can benefit everyone, if it's done properly.

[vee1-rotate]

The flying club there has been asked to leave by early next year. It had traditionally been located at Point Cook and is currently looking for a new home to continue providing (very) affordable aviation.
End of an era (50-ish years).:sad:

I flew their B-model I think it was 172 many years back. Was always scared in that thing, thinking the wings would fold up at any moment. Nice location though.

[Pundit]

As the RAAF moves to celebrate its centenary next year, it is a pity the birthplace couldn't be returned to a fully operational base. Tradition and history need to be protected.

[Bodie1]

Who owns the base? The RAAF, they can do whatever TF they like there. If they tell you to get out, then get out.

So some dude is muscling in on the Mustang because of who or what he knows, so what. If you haven't figured out by now that that's how life works you're in for a bit of a rough ride in life.

[Dora-9]

Office Update
Do you know any of the crew personally? By your descriptions, I suspect not.

Vag277 - if that was aimed at me (who is Office Update?), then despite declaring earlier that this was third-hand knowledge I DO know some of the people concerned!

Apologies for the perceived lack of sensitivity.

Centaurus - no offence taken.

So some dude is muscling in on the Mustang because of who or what he knows, so what.

Bodie - I certainly have figured it out by now thanks for your kind concern - I've been involved in aviation for a bloody long time now, sufficient to qualify for a Degree in Applied Aviation Cynicism. As you say, it is the way of the world - but it doesn't make it right though. I confess that photos of long-haired Mr Lowy being made a Flight Lieutenant caused some gnashing of teeth here too.

[Bodie1]

Dora, it's sorta the same as the teeth gnashing going on over sports rorts, poor choices in 'relationship' partners, politicians lying to enquiries, do we expect any different? I don't. And I don't particularly give a tinkers cuss.

As far as Lowy being made a Flight Lieutenant, he'd probably display more courage and moral fibre than the upper levels of gutless 'leadership' from the army at the moment. Lowy deserves a knighthood as far as I'm concerned.

[Vag277]

Response to Office Update related to a post that appears to have been deleted in which the background of the Temora crew members was maligned. Not aimed at Dora-9

[The Banjo]

In reality the Temora Museum would not exist if the "long haired Mr. Lowy" had not invested an enormous of time, energy, business knowledge and of course many millions of dollars in the venture. If short back and sides is our yardstick of a man's worth then we are indeed misguided. As for the two retired air ranks on the museum board. Both have reputations for being very decent people in and out of uniform and we could not wish for better people to steer the museum into the future.

[Dora-9]

The Banjo - I now realize that my comment re Mr Lowy was Topic Drift, not really pertinent to the Point Cook goings-on and maybe best left to another occasion. I think everyone at Temora should be grateful to him; the town was dying when I first visited there around 2000. Consider my remark withdrawn please.

And I don't particularly give a tinkers cuss.

Bodie - then why post? There's a famous quote about bad things happening because good men stand by and do nothing. Me, I like tilting at windmills, even if it's just with a keyboard!

[Bodie1]

Like what bad things? From what I'm reading there's noses out of joint for two reasons? Civvies getting kicked off a military aerodrome and whinging about who gets to fly some toys we'd all give our left nut to fly? Not much you can do about the first, the second, join the brown nose queue, or buy your own toys to fly?

[Square Bear]

The RAAF Pt Cook Aero Club was initially set up for the RAAF personnel for those that were not Flight Crew, or were Flight Crew and wanted an aircraft they could use for recreational use, or the flight crew that had a ground position and enjoyed a flight now and again.

Aside from maybe one or two aircraft the Club owned owned, the majority were owned by Civilian’s who were given membership due to putting their aircraft of line. Same as the instructing staff.

Many ADFA cadets got their “CASA” licences through the Club, well before they got to 1FTS, as did many Military pilots who were leaving the Service.

Admittedly my experience is from some years ago, but a shame to see it go because really it was a Social Club with the added attraction of flight training/flight enjoyment/aircraft hire.

[Sunfish]

Bodie1: what bad things? From what I'm reading there's noses out of joint for two reasons? Civvies getting kicked off a military aerodrome and whinging about who gets to fly some toys we'd all give our left nut to fly? Not much you can do about the first, the second, join the brown nose queue, or buy your own toys to fly?]

Its the despised “civvies” that paid for the original base, its upkeep and the “toys we’d all give our left nuts to fly”. Furthermore, if you are RAAF, the “civvies” paid for your training, food and clothing down to your shoes and socks.

I’d rather see Point Cook turned into a housing estate before giving it back to the RAAF, if the RAAF is full of cynical narcissistic creeps like you.

Point Cook was a natural spot to house:

1. A purpose built Australian air museum.

2. An industry cluster of aviation related businesses specialising in the restoration and maintenance of vintage aircraft of all. types, civil and military as well as the manufacture of replicas.

3. A training hub for both pilots and engineers.

‘’As for a fully fledged RAAF base, there goes another chunk of airspace locked up for the benefit of a bunch of overgrown schoolboys.

[Slezy9]

What a great rant!! Had a few reds last night Sunfish? I don't recommend drinking and typing.

I only see one person regularly posting like an "overgrown schoolboy" on PPRUNE (hint: it's you)

[finestkind]

[QUOTE=Sunfish;10937548]Bodie1:

Its the despised “civvies” that paid for the original base, its upkeep and the “toys we’d all give our left nuts to fly”. Furthermore, if you are RAAF, the “civvies” paid for your training, food and clothing down to your shoes and socks.

You also forgot the funeral's.

I don't think anyone would look at your "post" and not think that you have an overly large chip on your shoulder or are you off your medication?

[Andy_G]

Well this topic has drifted well off track. Seems as though its a bit "windy".:hmm:

[junior.VH-LFA]

Bodie1:

Its the despised “civvies” that paid for the original base, its upkeep and the “toys we’d all give our left nuts to fly”. Furthermore, if you are RAAF, the “civvies” paid for your training, food and clothing down to your shoes and socks.

And in return people go to war when they're asked to. It's not a one way deal.

Ffs Sunfish, even you are better than this pathetic dribble.

[Bodie1]

if the RAAF is full of cynical narcissistic creeps like you.

Calm down there old fruit, I'm not RAAF or ex-RAAF. I couldn't be further from the services. There are some wankas in the RAAF but I reckon there are far more wankas in GA percentage wise.

I do know how the world works, I would have thought you'd have figured it out by now. You can choose to be part of that world or not, I choose not to, but that's just me. I'm not gunna have a crack at someone who chooses to.

[Mach1Muppet]

I heard in 2015 it was being turned into an operational Classic hornet base. That seemed to come true

[Sunfish]

I stand by what I said because you RAAF types seem to despise the people who pay for you:

Its the despised “civvies” that paid for the original base, its upkeep and the “toys we’d all give our left nuts to fly”. Furthermore, if you are RAAF, the “civvies” paid for your training, food and clothing down to your shoes and socks.

I’d rather see Point Cook turned into a housing estate before giving it back to the RAAF, if the RAAF is full of cynical narcissistic creeps like you.

Point Cook was a natural spot to house:

1. A purpose built Australian air museum.

2. An industry cluster of aviation related businesses specialising in the restoration and maintenance of vintage aircraft of all. types, civil and military as well as the manufacture of replicas.

3. A training hub for both pilots and engineers.

‘’As for a fully fledged RAAF base, there goes another chunk of airspace locked up for the benefit of a bunch of overgrown schoolboys.

[Malakor1]

I stand by what I said because you RAAF types seem to despise the people who pay for you:

What a disgracefully childish statement, you should be embarrassed.

In a year when the RAAF and wider ADF has been stretched to capacity with civil assistance I find your comments highly offensive and generalised.

Many hours were devoted to bushfire support at the beginning of the year, with leave cancelled for a lot of members in order to recall them (and absolutely no grumbling, people were scrambling to help.) Right now there are personnel (technicians, pilots, logistics officers - people from all ranks and musterings) assigned to covid tasking at hotels all throughout Australia as an ongoing task,with leave again cancelled for a lot of members over Christmas. Furthermore additional personnel placed on standby for bushfire assistance again this year.

Despise the people who pay for us? Most people join because they want to serve the community.

[Capn Rex Havoc]

I'm willing to bet Sunfish got scrubbed from the RAAF.

[Lookleft]

And was unable to become an airline pilot. You don’t need to do a psychometric test to be management so the clue might be there.

[Ascend Charlie]

Sunfish, do you think that the members of the military do not pay tax?

We all paid our dues, and did our jobs. It wasn't always killing people, it was usually rescuing people who have done stupid things - though I would have been happy to have left some of them to their fate.

Cap'n Rex, those were my thoughts exactly, a scrubbed failed bitter and twisted non-pilot wannabee.

[Bodie1]

No doubt there are significant psychological issues with old fruit. The rants are gold standard bitter.

[Sunfish]

Malakor: You just make it worse for yourself don't you? Your sense of entitlement is a mile wide. A National emergency and somehow this is a major sacrifice above and beyond, etc.....?

What a disgracefully childish statement, you should be embarrassed.

In a year when the RAAF and wider ADF has been stretched to capacity with civil assistance I find your comments highly offensive and generalised.

Many hours were devoted to bushfire support at the beginning of the year, with leave cancelled for a lot of members in order to recall them (and absolutely no grumbling, people were scrambling to help.) Right now there are personnel (technicians, pilots, logistics officers - people from all ranks and musterings) assigned to covid tasking at hotels all throughout Australia as an ongoing task,with leave again cancelled for a lot of members over Christmas. Furthermore additional personnel placed on standby for bushfire assistance again this year.

Despise the people who pay for us? Most people join because they want to serve the community.

Perish the thought that the Chinese might attack over Christmas......

But seriously, there were many others who cancelled their leave voluntarily, tens of thousands of them. They were the despised civvies your mate Bodie sneered at. Then there were the police, ambos and professional fire fighters as well. They got no Christmas leave either. What makes you so special? It was a national emergency after all and you claim some special kudos for doing what you were paid to do out of hours? Aren't you supposed to be available 24/7?

I guess I am being a bit harsh. The RAAF gave me a lift home from Coffs Harbor in a C17 a week or two before Christmas. The webbing seats brought back memories. I didn't get to celebrate the New Year either. Yet I'm not complaining.

However its Wednesday afternoon, aren't you supposed to be playing cricket?

[Sunfish]

Yes Bodie, I'm bitter when I see all the work and treasure spent on trying to preserve places like Point Cook and our history, only to have people like you **** in their faces.

I am now out of this. Attitudes like yours disgust me.

[junior.VH-LFA]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/346x312/giphy_5e8901ff8d346d8ac764a802874a44d667bf6e26.gif

[Malakor1]

Malakor: You just make it worse for yourself don't you? Your sense of entitlement is a mile wide. A National emergency and somehow this is a major sacrifice above and beyond, etc.....?



Perish the thought that the Chinese might attack over Christmas......

But seriously, there were many others who cancelled their leave voluntarily, tens of thousands of them. They were the despised civvies your mate Bodie sneered at. Then there were the police, ambos and professional fire fighters as well. They got no Christmas leave either. What makes you so special? It was a national emergency after all and you claim some special kudos for doing what you were paid to do out of hours? Aren't you supposed to be available 24/7?

I guess I am being a bit harsh. The RAAF gave me a lift home from Coffs Harbor in a C17 a week or two before Christmas. The webbing seats brought back memories. I didn't get to celebrate the New Year either. Yet I'm not complaining.

However its Wednesday afternoon, aren't you supposed to be playing cricket?

Haha wow, no entitlement here, simply wanted to highlight the fact most RAAF members do not despise the civilian community - defending and serving Australia was generally a motivating reason to join.

You mentioned a while ago you were tired of the diatribe and attacks on yourself so you left the forum.. Then you came back. Maybe it's time to go again, permanently? Vile outbursts serve nothing, this is just embarrassing, and all can see it except yourself.

Cricket is on Friday afternoons, Wednesday is croquet.

Mods, maybe time to close this thread down? It's getting weird..

[Lookleft]

You have made that promise before Sunfish. Let’s hope your New Years resolution is to stay away for good and let’s hope the Mods might be able to help you with that.

[josephfeatherweight]

I'm willing to bet Sunfish got scrubbed from the RAAF.
I think you have "start" course in order to be "scrubbed". I highly doubt that happened.

The webbing seats brought back memories.
We thank you for your distinguished service - now bugger off...

[Bodie1]

They were the despised civvies your mate Bodie sneered at.

Didn't sneer at anyone. I merely made a comment about 'how the world works' and 'The Golden Rule'

"He/She That Has The Gold Makes All The Rules"

and if you don't like it, too bad eh!

[Bodie1]

Yes Bodie, I'm bitter when I see all the work and treasure spent on trying to preserve places like Point Cook and our history, only to have people like you **** in their faces.

No, I'm not into that sort of thing, I'm more into a bit of light spanking.

I am now out of this. Attitudes like yours disgust me.

Again? Don't let the door smack your arse on the way out.

[brokenagain]

Ol’ whispering Jack Sunfish. Is this the final final goodbye?

[The Wawa Zone]

I haven't looked at PPrune for three months and yeah, same snarling and bitching like always :) yee-harrrrr !

[The Golden Rivet]

FFS

can I do circuits and check out the museum or
not

[harrryw]

We saw with the SAS problem what can happen when a group forgets that they are members of the general community that makes up Australia that pays their bills and determine what is civilized and correct conduct.

[Beez51]

Sunfish, are you sure it was a C-17? No web seats in a C-17. Either plastic or palletised. Now a C130J certainly has webbed seats.

[Green.Dot]

Sunfish, are you sure it was a C-17? No web seats in a C-17. Either plastic or palletised. Now a C130J certainly has webbed seats.

this should help Sunfish...

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/579x529/13709352_db0e_4a67_b02d_0ee7d8aef72e_b2e2a9a0fbd3b921b752114 93c7fbe3a016b57e5.jpeg

[Sunfish]

One pallet in the center. Webbing down the sides. This one, 18 November at Coffs. Ear plugs just like in a Herc.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_1702_0db6cd031ce3c3d3fd6fd6e9cc90dd08f7490a3c.jpg

[Sunfish]

I loved travelling in a Caribou with the tailgate open.... but that was a very long time ago.

I may be wrong about the webbing. I thought it was but all of us were too tired to care.

[Bodie1]

Oh look, he's back.

[Bodie1]

Did you pay for that flight? Or did the ordinary Australian taxpayer have to fund your elitist private flight? Why didn't you take RPT?

[Lookleft]

Sunnie if you think red webbing looks the same as black seats then you are colour blind as well as all the other things.

[Sunfish]

My memory must be fading. I grabbed one of the pallet airline style seats and went to sleep.

[Ascend Charlie]

So your military service was just a dream?

[Green.Dot]

My memory must be fading. I grabbed one of the pallet airline style seats and went to sleep.

Good thing you “paid for” those pesky RAAF pilots’ shoes and socks while you had a nice sleep down the back. You earnt it Sunfish.

[Checklist Charlie]

Any chance we can get back to the subject IE Point Cook and leave the childish pi$$ing contest to Jetblast.

Thank You.

CC

[Bodie1]

Nah, keep the pissing contest here, saves switching between threads. Sorry, the childish pissing contest.

[Trevor the lover]

As a Bou pilot from years gone by I am sickened to think that I may have had Australia's biggest Fvcknuckle, Sunfish, sitting on the ramp of my aircraft. If Captain Rex Havoc and I had known he was on board we would have booted him out the back with the $15,000 ramp extension that Rex let fly over Exmouth Gulf, hey Rex!!??

[VH DSJ]

Apologies for interrupting the pissing contest here, but can anyone recall the rego of the PA28 at the Pt Cook RAAF Aeroclub in the late 1970s? Was it VH-AFS?

[Sunfish]

So us despised "Civvies" paid for your flight training too Trevor? The sense of entitlement some of you have is mind boggling. You remind me of a certain public school whose students were also told that they were "to serve the community" - by dominating the ranks of judges, Doctors,Directors, etc. The term coined for it by progressives was : "The old boys club". Seems like its alive and well in aviation.

[Slezy9]

I am now out of this. Attitudes like yours disgust me.

Sunfish, you repeatedly lie... You promised us you would leave the sensible adults to discuss this. But, like a bad smell you keep coming back. Please leave this thread, and PPRUNE, you provide nothing of value (except the odd chuckle at your deluded ranting).

[josephfeatherweight]

The term coined for it by progressives was : "The old boys club". Seems like its alive and well in aviation.
Oh Sunny, I'm sure it's the same down at RYCV...

[Slezy9]

So us despised "Civvies" paid for your flight training too Trevor? The sense of entitlement some of you have is mind boggling. You remind me of a certain public school whose students were also told that they were "to serve the community" - by dominating the ranks of judges, Doctors,Directors, etc. The term coined for it by progressives was : "The old boys club". Seems like its alive and well in aviation.

That photo you provided when you had your taxpayer funded ride on a C17 seem to only be "Old Boys" literally. The only female in the photo was one of your despised military members. Maybe you're a member of an old boys club yourself?

[Sunfish]

What set me off was Bodies comment about "civvies" which displayed obvious contempt for anyone who is not RAAF. He should apologise.

From what I'm reading there's noses out of joint for two reasons? Civvies getting kicked off a military aerodrome and whinging about who gets to fly some toys we'd all give our left nut to fly? Not much you can do about the first, the second, join the brown nose queue, or buy your own toys to fly?

[Lookleft]

Are you the PM now Sunfish? Your delusions of grandeur know no bounds.

[Malakor1]

What set me off was Bodies comment about "civvies" which displayed obvious contempt for anyone who is not RAAF. He should apologise.

Bodie has stated they are not or never were in the RAAF.

You've suddenly decided Bodie is the spokesperson for the RAAF and determined the RAAF hates all civvies. You have then gone on to provide your own evidence of RAAF assistance to the civil community which you benefited from; the very same help I was alluding to earlier when you labelled me 'entitled'.

Happy for you to apologise when you're ready, PM me if you'd prefer.

[Sunfish]

Malakor: You have then gone on to provide your own evidence of RAAF assistance to the civil community which you benefited from; the very same help I was alluding to earlier when you labelled me 'entitled'.


You just proved my point. “RAAF assistance to the civil community”.......

‘WHO DO YOU THINK PAYS YOUR WAGES???

Thats right, the civil community!

You cannot claim that you are assisting out of the goodness of your heart, we, the despised civvies, paid for point cook, paid for your training, pay for your upkeep, pay for your equipment.......and you think you are being somehow noble by coming to the assistance of your employers??

And I somehow benefited from a personal favour by being allowed to ride in the back of a C17 that I and others paid for?

We own you.

‘Is this an unintended consequence of having the Queen and G - G? You think they pay the bill?

It must be a painful thought that “civvies’, bogans and all, are actually your employer.

[Malakor1]

Malakor:

You just proved my point. “RAAF assistance to the civil community”.......

‘WHO DO YOU THINK PAYS YOUR WAGES???

Thats right, the civil community!

You cannot claim that you are assisting out of the goodness of your heart, we, the despised civvies, paid for point cook, paid for your training, pay for your upkeep, pay for your equipment.......and you think you are being somehow noble by coming to the assistance of your employers??

And I somehow benefited from a personal favour by being allowed to ride in the back of a C17 that I and others paid for?

We own you.

‘Is this an unintended consequence of having the Queen and G - G? You think they pay the bill?

It must be a painful thought that “civvies’, bogans and all, are actually your employer.


Come on sunny, you're missing my point! Your argument was RAAF despise civvies, mine is they do not! People join to serve the community. I know we are owned by the government and that the assistance being provided is the job. You may have had bad experiences with elements of the service, but the generalisation is out of order here.

[Eclan]

Reading this is like watching the special needs kid at school fighting with all the others kids in the playground. You know his plight is pathetic and hopeless and against all the odds and you shouldn't watch but it's such a weird spectacle you find yourself looking back again and again.

Sunny, you need to forget this whole "We paid for you, we own you, you work for us" thing. If that were in any way true or sensible, everything in the entire country would be owned in some way by everyone else... the RAAF pay tax, they work for themselves, not you!

But no, you might've contributed some miniscule fraction of a percentage but you don't own them, they don't "work for you" and you have no say in their control. Do you stand outside schools, police stations, hospitals, bridges, ports, universities, bus stations, fire stations, etc shouting that you own them because you paid a few bucks in tax? Do you stand outside your local deli yelling about ownership because you bought milk and bread from them? The RAAF people work for the CDF and the CAF and do what those guys tell them to do. Those guys work for the PM and Minister of Defence. And those guys work for themselves and whomever they think might cast a swinging vote every few years. None of them gives a rat's about the taxpayer and especially the ones that rant maniacally at clouds.

Are you retired or do you still pay tax? Even if you did have some "claim" of ownership, if you don't pay tax anymore then you're in default on your payments and got your ride for free. You owe the rest of us for one C-17 flight.

Also, I suspect you have never met most or even all the RAAF guys you malign on here. Is that correct? If so, casting aspersions on the merest hint of knowledge of the gents is not cool.

I think you need to calm down and get back on your meds before you blow a valve.

[Green.Dot]

Sunfish, best you take your bat and ball and go home.

I’ve seen toddlers who can control their emotions better than you and frankly every time you hit reply you are just embarrassing yourself more.

[finestkind]

Reading this is like watching the special needs kid at school fighting with all the others kids in the playground. You know his plight is pathetic and hopeless and against all the odds and you shouldn't watch but it's such a weird spectacle you find yourself looking back again and again.

Sunny, you need to forget this whole "We paid for you, we own you, you work for us" thing. If that were in any way true or sensible, everything in the entire country would be owned in some way by everyone else... the RAAF pay tax, they work for themselves, not you!

But no, you might've contributed some miniscule fraction of a percentage but you don't own them, they don't "work for you" and you have no say in their control. Do you stand outside schools, police stations, hospitals, bridges, ports, universities, bus stations, fire stations, etc shouting that you own them because you paid a few bucks in tax? Do you stand outside your local deli yelling about ownership because you bought milk and bread from them? The RAAF people work for the CDF and the CAF and do what those guys tell them to do. Those guys work for the PM and Minister of Defence. And those guys work for themselves and whomever they think might cast a swinging vote every few years. None of them gives a rat's about the taxpayer and especially the ones that rant maniacally at clouds.

Are you retired or do you still pay tax? Even if you did have some "claim" of ownership, if you don't pay tax anymore then you're in default on your payments and got your ride for free. You owe the rest of us for one C-17 flight.

Also, I suspect you have never met most or even all the RAAF guys you malign on here. Is that correct? If so, casting aspersions on the merest hint of knowledge of the gents is not cool.

I think you need to calm down and get back on your meds before you blow a valve.

Well said.

Whence once upon a time when I worked in a pub you would occasionally get the obnoxious individual state that I pay your wages with the implications that they were your boss/superior. No sunshine the licensee pays my wages. In the ADF, farmer bro in law, in an inebriated rant, stated I pay your wages. I replied my tax pays for your drought relief, flood relief, subsidised fuel, fire relief, etc. If people do not realise that is just one big wheel, unless you are a million/billionaire, we all work and pay each other than you are arguing with a fool and you know what they say about arguing with fool's. They will beat you down and win with their experience and expertise. Sunny I think should have his internet privilege revoked at the retirement village.

[MickG0105]

Reading this is like watching the special needs kid at school fighting with all the others kids in the playground.

Gee, a bit unfair to the special needs kiddies out there. I was thinking of something more analogous to Karen.

[Double Asymmetric]

Oh dear. That’s quite a chip on your shoulder Sunfish.

To completely clear the air, can you clarify whether your naked (and slightly unhinged) bitterness towards the Air Force is derived from your limited service as a lieutenant in (a) the Army, (b) Army Reserve or (c) the cadets?

[Sunfish]

Assymetric, none of the above. What little we saw of the RAAF was cordial. The RAAF and ex RAAF I met in aerospace were also great people.

I referred some time ago to three separate corporate senior managers I had the misfortune to work for who were: (1)Ex RAAF Engineering Officers who liked reminding people of their superior service origins. (2) Full of themselves with chips on both shoulders for balance and extremely unpleasant personalities and (3) utterly incompetent and rotten managers. The experience of dealing with those three perverted military minds scarred me for life.

I react strongly when I read comments here that remind me of those entitled, psychopathic and totally worthless bullies and the games they played. The alleged behaviour at Point Cook sounds exactly like them.

[brokenagain]

Full of themselves with chips on both shoulders for balance and extremely unpleasant personalities

Sounds like someone around here!

[Malakor1]

I react strongly when somebody makes the statement 'the RAAF despises all civilians.'

You may have misunderstood my argument as claiming a sense of entitlement. I can assure you that was not my intention, it was merely to point out that there are hard working men and women currently serving, many of whom joined in order to provide the service to the community they are currently providing, who do not deserve the outrageous generalisation you have directed at them.

Of course there are bad apples in defence, but as you mentioned there are also good ones, like in any industry.

[Trevor the lover]

Ok, I'll go on the record here........................SUNFISH, AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED YOU ARE A DESPISED CIVVY.

And since you stick to the line of you paid for everything - thanks for all my jet hours and all the overseas trips, and all the fun I had. Much appreciated........loser.

[Ascend Charlie]

The experience of dealing with those three perverted military minds scarred me for life.

I react strongly when I read comments

Ahhh, so THAT is the problem, you have PTSD. Go see a psychiatrist, and leave this forum.

[cattletruck]

I referred some time ago to three separate corporate senior managers I had the misfortune to work for
If this occurred at the Victoria Parade office in the mid to late 90's then from what I gleaned from the Minister's office, hefty bonuses were being handed out in a backhandedly fashion for culling heads, the talent didn't matter, only the head count did.

[Sunfish]

Thank you all for your comments.’

On reflection, I’ve over reacted ; the obvious reason for the RAAF to reclaim the base, kicking the volunteers and the club off the premises in the process, is to sell it unencumbered and without effective community opposition for property development. Isn’t that what happened at Laverton? All that was left there, I think, was some space for the SAS exercise Helos, but I may be out of date.

[Bodie1]

What set me off was Bodies comment about "civvies" which displayed obvious contempt for anyone who is not RAAF. He should apologise.

What? Apologise for what? I think you're a bit of a d!ckhead, actually, a ****wit.

It's a RAAF base mate, they can do what they damn please with it, not your call mate. (I'm not ex-RAAF, current RAAF or any of the other services). I also believe it's a fair trade for the 'taxpayer' to fund their flight training in the expectation that these lads/ladettes get to fly in a war zone to defend your pitiful existence. Truth be told, it's probably weighted in the taxpayers favour given they're putting their lives on the line for the privilege of the cost of flight training.

Have some respect for the people that serve you arseclown.

[Sunfish]

It’s a RAAF base mate, they can do what they damn please with it, not your call mate. (I'm not ex-RAAF, current RAAF or any of the other services). I also believe it's a fair trade for the 'taxpayer' to fund their flight training.]

Tell that to the Defence Minister and the Treasurer. Point Cook is desirable residential land. The locals have been complaining about its use as an airport for at least fifteen years. The road access to the whole area is choked and problematic, so is public transport. It has a stack of infrastructure - barracks , mess, etc., but I wouldn’t know if any of it is in an acceptable state these days.

[Green.Dot]

It has a stack of infrastructure - barracks , mess, etc., but I wouldn’t know if any of it is in an acceptable state these days.

Exactly- you wouldn’t know.

Just like most of the things you have said on this thread.

[Bodie1]

Tell that to the Defence Minister and the Treasurer. Point Cook is desirable residential land. The locals have been complaining about its use as an airport for at least fifteen years. The road access to the whole area is choked and problematic, so is public transport. It has a stack of infrastructure - barracks , mess, etc., but I wouldn’t know if any of it is in an acceptable state these days.

So what.........previous reply applies.

[Dora-9]

Have some respect for the people

Bodie - maybe, just maybe, you should show some respect for other PPruners and cease your endlessly repetitive "I'm so clever because I don't care" brainless brayings? You've posted frequently, we know your self-indulgent attitude, yet you've added nothing new.

Regarding your name-calling comments to Sunfish - I don't like particularly Sunfish (I have earlier posted a "F*** Off" response to him on an previous thread) nor his attitudes but just occasionally his postings do contain a well written, non-abusive, fresh and intelligent viewpoint. Unlike yours.

You clearly lack the compassion, wit and moral compass to appreciate the angst amongst the volunteers who have previously run this facility to a very high standard. Unlike you I really feel for the people involved.

[cattletruck]

I think this thread has been hijacked by Point Cook real estate agents.

On one of my later visits to the Point Cook Museum I came across a 70 year old experienced machinist working on a V12 Merlin engine fabricating replacement engine parts for free. In conversation he mentioned that the exhaust valves used by the Merlin are hollow and filled with sodium as a cooling agent, and should you ever try to cut through one then it will probably be fatal. A font of knowledge and experience lay before me that was part of a skilled team keeping this museum and its exhibits in a state to be enjoyed by many.

If the RAAF does not appreciate this then they are doing themselves a major disservice. Sure you can have all the money in the world and do whatever you wish with it, but what's the point if you have no friends to share the experience.

[Dora-9]

Cattletruck - well said!

[Bodie1]

Bodie - maybe, just maybe, you should show some respect for other PPruners and cease your endlessly repetitive "I'm so clever because I don't care" brainless brayings? You've posted frequently, we know your self-indulgent attitude, yet you've added nothing new.

Yeah, goodonya mate! No worries. Coupla things, 'I don't care' doesn't suggest 'I'm so clever' it suggests........I don't care. I've done a bit of flying there over the years, great place, hell, some of the cadets I flew with may just be in the service. I bet that gets on your goat eh? The museum is bloody awesome. But what I really don't care about are the whingers whinging about some RAAF fella lining up for the Spitfire. I reckon whomever it is has probably earned the stripes yeah?

Regarding your name-calling comments to Sunfish - I don't like particularly Sunfish (I have earlier posted a "F*** Off" response to him on an previous thread) nor his attitudes but just occasionally his postings do contain a well written, non-abusive, fresh and intelligent viewpoint. Unlike yours.

The weight of evidence is not with you on this one old mate. If you are going to chip me on this one, chip the rest of em. You can tell him to **** off but others can't right?

You clearly lack the compassion, wit and moral compass to appreciate the angst amongst the volunteers who have previously run this facility to a very high standard. Unlike you I really feel for the people involved.

Yeah mate, that's me all over. You've got a set against me, and you know what? I don't really care...........

[Dora-9]

I've done a bit of flying there over the years, great place, hell, some of the cadets I flew with may just be in the service. I bet that gets on your goat eh?

No. Where have I ever indicated that I'd have a problem with that?

You can tell him to **** off but others can't right?

But I didn't resort to puerile name-calling.

I don't really care...........

We know that - it's like an endless recording... Please desist.

[Bodie1]

But I didn't resort to puerile name-calling.

Yeah/Nah, it don 't work like that. Parenting 101.

it's like an endless recording... Please desist.

It isn't really. There are things I do care about but you won't or don't want to see that. So no.