Identifying Crash incident

[BabelColour]

Hello, I wonder if any knowledgeable members of the forum can possibly help?

I'm researching the life of a TV Director for a film project which I'm working on and for an associated article about his career & life. One of the interviewees I spoke to, who knew him, recounted an incident during a period he had been in the RAF and involved in a crash, and I hope to verify the story and maybe find out additional information about it. The story was told to him 40 years ago, so I do not know, after all this time, how much is reliable, but below is the information I have been given....

I know subject's name was Christopher Baker. He later became a TV director on shows like 'All Creatures Great & Small', 'The Gentle Touch' and 'Boon', and is known to have joined the BBC around 1957, so I'm assuming the crash happened before then (although there is a 5 year-gap in his employment history between 1962-7, so it is feasible, though unlikely, it occurred in the Sixties).

The interviewee told me the following quote: “I do remember him telling me a horrific story about his days as an RAF jet pilot well before his days in tv… I believe he was stationed in Germany and on war practice manoeuvres when his jet plane developed a problem and he had to bail out. The jet crashed but he landed by parachute in a farmers field in the middle of nowhere. He landed badly and broke both his legs and he told me that, unnoticed, he had to crawl as best he could some way across the field to a farmhouse where he got help from a concerned but kindly farmer and his family. Fortunately there were no other casualties.”

That is all I have to go on. Which is pretty scant. Possibly in the 1950s, Possibly in West Germany. All I know for certain is his name was Christopher Baker. Can anyone help narrow the field and suggest a way forward? It would be greatly appreciated if any of that could be verified!

Thank you for your time and help
Stuart

[Airbubba]

You may already have this but it appears that Chris Baker was the director of a couple of the episodes of a 1982 BBC RAF TV drama Squadron.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squadron_(TV_series)

The other names involved in the RAF TV show production might give a lead on someone else who had also heard the bailout story.

[BabelColour]

You may already have this but it appears that Chris Baker was the director of a couple of the episodes of a 1982 BBC RAF TV drama Squadron.

See: wikipedia.org/wiki/Squadron_(TV_series)

The other names involved in the RAF TV show production might give a lead on someone else who had also heard the bailout story.

He did indeed - two episodes of Squadron, 'One of Our Harriers is Missing' and 'Memorial Flight' - which were filmed at RAF Lyneham in Wiltshire in 1982. Unfortunately, there aren't many of the production crew still alive from that series to ask. It was created by Joe Waters who died in 2013 and script edited by Mervyn Haisman who died in 2010.

[Old-Duffer]

If he ejected from an aircraft with a Martin Baker seat, it will be recorded in Sarah Sharman's book of her great uncle "Sir James Martin". If it was a Sabre it might not appear.

Beware, I am helping somebody who is being bombarded by a bloke in the US who claims all sorts of things, including ejecting from a Jaguar - the bloke is a Walt however!!!

Old Duffer

[ORAC]

Might seem a bit obvious, but have you asked Martin-Baker?

https://martin-baker.com/ejection-tie-club/

[Video Mixdown]

You might be able to distill some possible candidates for the accident in question by looking through the relevant years here (http://www.ukserials.com/losses_index.htm).

[Archimedes]

If he ejected from an aircraft with a Martin Baker seat, it will be recorded in Sarah Sharman's book of her great uncle "Sir James Martin". If it was a Sabre it might not appear.


Beware, I am helping somebody who is being bombarded by a bloke in the US who claims all sorts of things, including ejecting from a Jaguar - the bloke is a Walt however!!!

Old Duffer

Have had a quick look in the book, and can't find his name appearing at any time up to 1957. There is reference to a Flying Officer 'Boxy' Baker in Duncan Curtis's book on the Sabre in RAF service, but no reference to whether this chap was in fact called Christopher (it appears that he might have been called Bob, in fact), and no reference to his ejecting. It may be best for the OP to surreptitiously find out when he was in the RAF- there were, after all, some aircraft which didn't have ejection seats, so it's not beyond the realms of possibility that he earned caterpillar club membership rather than a MB tie, and was injured on landing.

[SLXOwft]

If MB can't help it, might be worth trying to contact those who run the aviation-safety.net database. For many types they have the crew names in the narrative, if the accident occured in flight. They might agree to query the database for you - can't be queried for names from the front end. There is a separate contact form for the press/media

[MATELO]

Just a quick one, were there any jets that didn't have an ejection seat, or possible multi engine as the OP referred to bail out. This may seem to indicate a canopy push and manual jump.

[Cornish Jack]

Just a quick one, were there any jets that didn't have an ejection seat, or possible multi engine
As I understand it, the 'Meatbox' Mks prior to the Mk 8 didn't have MBs ... hence Jan Z's reported explanation as to why he was able to perform the 'cartwheel' -"Because I fly the Mk 8 !!!

[Archimedes]

Just a quick one, were there any jets that didn't have an ejection seat, or possible multi engine as the OP referred to bail out. This may seem to indicate a canopy push and manual jump.

Yes, as per my last, I'm wondering if he flew Vampires as there were several squadrons equipped with that in RAFG during the likely timeframe.

[brakedwell]

I remember a Chris Baker who was on the same Ternhill Piston Provost course in 1955/6. He went on to RAF Oakington for the Vampire part of his training in 1956. The course split in half and I went to Vampires at RAF Swinderby. Half way through the course we heard about Chris’s crash landing in a Vampire V in a field after an engine failure and how he saved his legs by putting his feet up on the instrument panel. It could have been his second accident as we heard he had left the RAF after the Vampire V accident. I have a photo of him at Ternhill somewhere in my pile!

[BabelColour]

I remember a Chris Baker who was on the same Ternhill Piston Provost course in 1955/6. He went on to RAF Oakington for the Vampire part of his training in 1956. The course split in half and I went to Vampires at RAF Swinderby. Half way through the course we heard about Chris’s crash landing in a Vampire V in a field after an engine failure and how he saved his legs by putting his feet up on the instrument panel. It could have been his second accident as we heard he had left the RAF after the Vampire V accident. I have a photo of him at Ternhill somewhere in my pile!

This is an amazing turn of events. I couldn't have hoped for a better reply than this! You've genuinely astounded me!
If you could possibly unearth the photo that would be the cherry on the cake!
What an amazing way to verify the story than to hear from someone who remembers it! Tremendous!

[BabelColour]

Thanks to your really incredible memory for events, I've been able to find the details of the crash, which apparently occurred on 22nd January 1957. I'm so grateful to you.
If you ever do find that photo it would be brilliant to see. We only have a single image of Chris. He was such an elusive chap (which is precisely why we're trying to research him!)

[brakedwell]

Here is my photo B/C. I hope it is the same Chris Baker, taken at RAF Ternhill in 1956.



https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_0327_b3ef114171e6acb828748486f79471ec7f9d3a2d.jpg

[BabelColour]

You are an absolute STAR. What Can I say except a massive thank you. Genuinely, you've made my year.
I've only seen one photo of him in his mid 40s with a beard, so to see him so young is a pretty amazing thing. This is the best side of the internet, finding someone kind enough to elp like you have.
Thank you Brakedwell.

[sycamore]

BC, you might try a PM to` Vampiredave`,who has written a book about the Vampire ; in it there are several pictures of various Vamps in disarray....but he may well have more if it was in Germany as well....

[NutLoose]

Well done all of you so far

[ORAC]

So, student who crashed on take-off from Oakhington in a Vampire FB5 after engine failure and was subsequently let go for medical or other reasons. As opposed to:

"“I do remember him telling me a horrific story about his days as an RAF jet pilot well before his days in tv…I believe he was stationed in Germany and on war practice manoeuvres when his jet plane developed a problem and he had to bail out. The jet crashed but he landed by parachute in a farmers field in the middle of nowhere. He landed badly and broke both his legs and he told me that, unnoticed, he had to crawl as best he could some way across the field to a farmhouse where he got help from a concerned but kindly farmer and his family. Fortunately there were no other casualties.”

Still, it would have made a good screenplay.....

[BabelColour]

So, student who crashed on take-off from Oakhampton in a Vampire FB5 after engine failure and was subsequently let go for medical or other reasons. As opposed to:

"“I do remember him telling me a horrific story about his days as an RAF jet pilot well before his days in tv…I believe he was stationed in Germany and on war practice manoeuvres when his jet plane developed a problem and he had to bail out. The jet crashed but he landed by parachute in a farmers field in the middle of nowhere. He landed badly and broke both his legs and he told me that, unnoticed, he had to crawl as best he could some way across the field to a farmhouse where he got help from a concerned but kindly farmer and his family. Fortunately there were no other casualties.”

Still, it would have made a good screenplay.....

Well, the story of him crashing his jet into a field is perfectly true. And I think him breaking his legs was true as well - Brakedwell did say he only saved them by putting them on the instrument panels, so he could have potentially lost them entirely. The only thing which was wrong was that it happened in Cambridgeshire rather than Germany.

[Green Flash]

Oakington? Incident de Havilland DH.100 Vampire FB Mk 5 WA231, 22 Jan 1957 (aviation-safety.net) (https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/15030)

[Archimedes]

So, student who crashed on take-off from Oakhampton in a Vampire FB5 after engine failure and was subsequently let go for medical or other reasons. As opposed to:

"“I do remember him telling me a horrific story about his days as an RAF jet pilot well before his days in tv…I believe he was stationed in Germany and on war practice manoeuvres when his jet plane developed a problem and he had to bail out. The jet crashed but he landed by parachute in a farmers field in the middle of nowhere. He landed badly and broke both his legs and he told me that, unnoticed, he had to crawl as best he could some way across the field to a farmhouse where he got help from a concerned but kindly farmer and his family. Fortunately there were no other casualties.”

Still, it would have made a good screenplay.....

In fairness, I think that's someone the OP spoke to who might be misremembering what he was told by the Chris Baker in question. I suspect that the short gap between training and a new job might be down either to his being a National Service pilot or thanks to that nice Mr Sandys...

I could swear that I have read somewhere about a pilot crawling to a farmhouse after baling out and being injured, but I'm darned if I can recall where I saw it.

[BabelColour]

In fairness, I think that's someone the OP spoke to who might be misremembering what he was told by the Chris Baker in question. I suspect that the short gap between training and a new job might be down either to his being a National Service pilot or thanks to that nice Mr Sandys...

I could swear that I have read somewhere about a pilot crawling to a farmhouse after baling out and being injured, but I'm darned if I can recall where I saw it.

You are quite right about the interviewee trying to remember an old story. He'd been told it by Mr Baker 40 years ago!
If the bail-out/crawling to a farmhouse story ever comes back to you, do please post it here!

[XV490]

ORAC – Still, it would have made a good screenplay...

:D 😅 👍

[SLXOwft]

I could swear that I have read somewhere about a pilot crawling to a farmhouse after baling out and being injured, but I'm darned if I can recall where I saw it.


Are you thinking of RAFVR Sgt (later WO) Norman Cyril Jackson VC, 106 Sqn?


I felt stabbing pains in my back, the engine exploded into flames and I slipped off the wing. A violent jerk told me I was still attached to the Lancaster by my parachute. I was being pulled downwards in a spiralling arc. The other crew members paid out the rest of my canopy before bailing out themselves. I was unable to control the descent of my slashed and torn parachute, and I landed heavily in a forest. After regaining consciousness I checked my injuries. Both ankles seemed broken, my legs and back ached from shell splinters and shrapnel; both my hands and face were severely burned and my right eye was completed closed up.

At daybreak I managed to crawl to a nearby cottage, but was welcomed by a tirade of insults: ‘Churchill gangster!’ ‘Terror Flieger!’. After being paraded through town for more jeers I was joined by my fellow crew members – happily all intact – for a 12 hour journey to Dulag Laft. Crippled and temporarily blind, I spent 10 months in a German hospital before being moved to a P.O.W. camp, where I saw out the war.

Part of his account of the shooting down of Lancaster ME669, ZN-0 on 26 April 1944. He was the AE, he climbed out of the cockpit and crawled along the fuselage in an attempt to put out a fire on the starboard wing with a hand held exrtinguisher.

Thread drift but I think it worth repeating.

Lord Ashcroft bought the resultant VC which is on display at the IWM. The family had intended to give it to the RAFM but his widow's will prevented them.

[brakedwell]

That really is thread drift SLXOwft!

[Union Jack]

That really is thread drift SLXOwft!
Surely the initial drift was caused by Archimedes, principally.....:=

Jack

[brakedwell]

Archemedes, Chris Baker was a 12 or 22 year commision entrant, not National Service and the Duncan Sandys massacre did not happen until late in 1957 when my Hunter Course was scrubbed.

[Archimedes]

Surely the initial drift was caused by Archimedes, principally.....:=

Jack

Oh, gee, thanks. I wasn't talking about Jackson and while I can see where SLXOwft was coming from, I was thinking about an anecdote in one of the more recent books (not this one, but Peter Caygill's Jet Jockeys and that genre of histories of the RAF during the Cold War era).

Brakedwell, thanks - I was posting on my phone, and it has the annoying habit of putting all the posts on a single page and refusing to get back to the top, so I'd misremembered the OP's date for Chris Baker leaving the service to 1958/59, which would've fitted Sandys better. Although I've seen some archival material which points to some effects - notably the disbandment of the RAuxAF squadrons coming about in short order, the full effects took time to work their way through - as you'll know rather better than I do!

[BabelColour]

Just an update with the information you kind people have provided, in this thread and subsequently -

There's an article in the Belfast Telegraph on 27th May 1957 which reveals that earlier that day Pilot Officer C.R.Baker (19) made an emergency landing in a field at Lyng, near Dereham, Norfolk, whilst on a training flight from Cambridgeshire in a Vampire jet fighter.
Using that date, I discovered it related to a de Havilland DH.100 Vampire FB Mk 5 jet (number WA259) from Oakington which crashed 27.5.1957 when it lost power due to an engine fire mid flight and was wrecked in a forced landing near Primrose Green, Breckland, 4 miles east of RAF Swanton Morley, Norfolk, with “No reported injuries to pilot”.
Whether he broke his legs as reported in the anecdote I cannot say, but it wasn't recorded on the paperwork.

You've all been extremely helpful. It all stems from Brakedwell's incredible memory and I am very appreciative.

[brakedwell]

BC. We heard Chris did not break his legs as he had is feet on the instrument panel when the aircraft hit the ground and he climbed out of the wrecked Vampire through the hole in the nose, which was made partly of laminated balsa wood, We were good friends during IOT at RAF Kirton Lindsey and at Ternhill. I was surprised when he left the RAF from Oakington and interested to hear about his future career in TV.

[NutLoose]

Incident de Havilland DH.100 Vampire FB.Mk 5 WA259, 27 May 1957 (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/20114)

[BabelColour]

BC. We were good friends during IOT at RAF Kirton Lindsey and at Ternhill. I was surprised when he left the RAF from Oakington and interested to hear about his future career in TV.

He joined the BBC in 1957 and became a studio manager. He worked on live episodes of Dixon of Dock Green and spent a while in the Plays Department, where he worked on many plays (some award-winning like the Play For Today called 'Edna The Inebriate Woman' in 1971). He directed a few episodes of Z-Cars, and some of the firsts season of All Creatures Great and Small. During his time on that show he told Peter Davison the following story:“There was this great story of a live episode of Dixon of Dock Green, which Chris Baker was involved in. In those days he was a floor manager and back then, before radio contact, they were attached by headphones to the side of the set. A policeman was meant to come in and go “Oh, Andy, you’re wanted down the station”. But he didn’t turn up. So this was live television! Chris decided to go in and do the line himself. So he went on to the set, forgetting thast he had his headphones attached by a cable, and got as far as, “Oh Andy – eeuuurrcchhh!” and he just disappeared, and people just looked on…”

He directed the soap 'The Brothers', as well as shows like 'The Gentle Touch', 'Emmerdale Farm', 'One by One', 'Boon', 'Squadron', 'Star Cops' and many others. in 1976 his face even appeared in Doctor Who as one of the title character's old iterations. He retired from TV in 1991.

[SLXOwft]

Thank you for the covering fire Jack but the major thread drift was my fault.

Anyway by penance I have been doing some digging in the Gazette - Brakedwell do these dates seem right?

Appointment to a direct commission (scheme B). As Acting Pilot Officer from Cadet Pilot (twelve years on the active list and four years on the reserve)

18th Jan. 1956. period of service to count from 19th Oct. 1955
3521732 Christopher Robin BAKER

Acting Pilot Officer to Pilot Officer 18 Jan 1957

Assuming it is him, I can find no further references using his number including any to relinquishing his commission/retiring.

[brakedwell]

Those dates and details look exactly right as does his service number. We also heard he was leaving the RAF when news about his accident reached RAF Swinderby.

[BabelColour]

It could have been his second accident as we heard he had left the RAF after the Vampire V accident.

Hello brakedwell - I've been pondering your original answer and just wanted to clarify something, if I may? You were wondering whether the Vampire crash may have been his second accident; but why would you be considering that? Do you have a distant memory of some other incident, or is/was there a rule within the RAF that if you are involved in two accidents you have to leave service? I'm just curious why you speculated.

[brakedwell]

BC - I remember we were all discussing Chris leaving the RAF in the crew room after his accident and how keen he had been to fly. There were quite a lot of Vampirw FB V accidents in those days, mostly fatal, and I seem to remember we thought he may have had another near miss/incident to make him decide to leave. It was a long time ago, but I remember feeling it strange that he was packing it in.

[ORAC]

Close brushes with death can have that effect on some people. Nothing wrong with that - they just realise that there are are more important things in life.

[langleybaston]

On a much less sombre note, I knew several very experienced and able Met forecasters, always attached to the RAF, who could not stand being badly wrong. This crept up on them ..... they had obviously passed the "thick skin test" in training, but became so identified with their customers' needs and disappointments that they asked to be taken off the job, with consequent loss of salary. This was to the surprise of their colleagues, who were, I suppose, equally prone to error but accepted it as an inbuilt hazard.

There were plenty of challenging back room jobs to do. One became a vital member of the team that took Weather Radar from a concept to an everyday wonder. Others became excellent lecturers in our College.

There must be many roles in a major organisation that bring on the "not for me" after a period of expertise and contentment.

A couple of crashes or accidents would do the business for me, for sure.

[jumpseater]

BabelColour
You mention you’re potentially doing a program regarding the story. If you wanted to film a piece involving an aircraft to illustrate the fortune of escaping serious injuries, the De Havilland Museum at Salisbury Hall Hertfordshire have an FB6 variant on display, and an FB5 under restoration. Whilst not exactly the same, I think the major change was an updated Goblin engine, the FB6 could certainly add visual impact to the story.
DH museum are I believe quite pro active in helping these sorts of projects. May be worth dropping an email to them.
https://www.dehavillandmuseum.co.uk/aircraft/de-havilland-dh100-vampire-fb-6/