VC-32 Replacement

[L1649A]

With Airbus having a production facility in Mobile, would a variant of the A321 (suitably adapted) be eligible to compete to replace the VC-32 ?

[BVRAAM]

I think security concerns were one of the problems with the A380 replacing the VC-25A, so I highly doubt it...

[madhon]

NIH syndrome will probably prevent airbus ever getting anything into the USAF

[kenparry]

How true. The answer is Boeing. Now, what was the question?

[SLXOwft]

The NEAT RFI was looking at replacing the E-6B (707) TAke Charge And Move Out /Airborne Command Post (ABNCP) C-32 (757) Executive Airlift and E-4B (747) National Airborne Operations Center possibly (I suspect preferably) with a single (widebody) platform. Expectation of long production run, sustained spares availability, and very high unrefueled range are criteria. Commonality with the KC-46 make a 767 airframe the front runner, possibly a re-run of the E-10 with NG?. Does Airbus have the requisite experience in converting civil aircraft to a military role with the requisite CBRN protection? Without a major US partner in the lead I suspect Airbus is a non-runner. Ojectively Anybody But Boeing would make strategic procurement sense to break its expectation of being the sole supplier of aircaft based on small commercial aircraft (737/319/320/321 size) and above to the DoD. But as ever Designed and Made in the US of A plus pork is likely to win. The C-32 is considered too cramped which suggests a narrow body is off the menu.

[Momoe]

Unless DoD have buried their collective heads in the sand very deeply, KC-46 association might make them look across the pond. European sanctions don't help but an expression of interest might help with the horse trading.
On the other hand, I'm not sure Airbus would be interested, not much chance of repeat business or volume offsets.

[Less Hair]

Wouldn't some 767 tanker with passenger or VIP cabin make the most sense?

[sandiego89]

Wouldn't some 767 tanker with passenger or VIP cabin make the most sense?

Yes it would. Plenty of square footage, good alternators, range, hardened, and miles of wiring would make a KC-46 a good place to start. Early KC-46's might make an attractive conversion to other roles, since it sounds like the entire remote vision system and boom are going to be ripped out.

[Less Hair]

It can't be long before some future AWACS airframe will be needed.

[tdracer]

Wouldn't some 767 tanker with passenger or VIP cabin make the most sense?
As I've mentioned on the KC-46 thread, there are numerous bumps and bulges and other changes on the KC-46 that have no apparent relationship to the aerial refueling missions (I won't elaborate for what should be obvious reasons). So I have little doubt the KC-46 already has provisions for additional roles.
So yes, the KC-46 would make a good starting point.

[chopper2004]

With Airbus having a production facility in Mobile, would a variant of the A321 (suitably adapted) be eligible to compete to replace the VC-32 ?

I started this thread while back as replacement not just the 32 but, also E-6 and E-4 which is the requirement and a NEAT idea,

https://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/624903-e4b-e6-c-32b-replacement-neat-idea.html?highlight=E6+replacement

cheers

[Una Due Tfc]

Would they buy up used 747-8i from say Lufthansa or would procuring used frames from a foreign entity be viewed as a security risk?

[tdracer]

Would they buy up used 747-8i from say Lufthansa or would procuring used frames from a foreign entity be viewed as a security risk?

Given the level of rework that would be involved in converting a passenger 747 into a military one, I doubt there would be a significant security concern. Any surprises 'left behind' would almost certainly be discovered during the rework.
That being said, I think the demand for 747 P2F conversions will remain high enough that a military conversion would be better served by a big twin (especially since the 747 line will soon be shuttered)

[Less Hair]

Lufthansa is not intending to phase out their 747-8s for the time being.

[GlobalNav]

How old are the VC-32’s? How many many hours do they have? When I flew in the 89th we had 30 year old VC135’s and B707’s. They don’t accumulate that many hours per year, or at least they didn’t used to.

[unmanned_droid]

Perhaps a better question is 'what's the supply chain like for the 757 in general and also for the specific equipment fitted to the VC-32?'

[SLXOwft]

The C-32s are maintained under a contract awarded for C-32 and C-40 support in 2016 which lasts until 30JUN2023.

Boeing Aerospace Operations, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, has been awarded a $319,007,670 indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity contract for C-32/C-40 contractor logistics support. Contractor will provide organizational and depot-level maintenance, data, contractor operated and maintained base supply, and modification design and installation support. The contractor will provide all support required to fulfill this requirement, including but not limited, to labor, materials, tools, equipment, parts and transportation. This effort includes additional support as over and above tasks, field team support (worldwide), deployments, aircraft crash investigations and damage repair. Work will be performed at Joint Base Andrews, Maryland; Scott Air Force Base, Illinois; Ramstein Air Base, Germany; and Joint Base Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and is expected to be complete by June 30, 2023. This award is the result of a competitive acquisition with two offers received. Fiscal 2016 operations and maintenance funds in the amount of $242,392 are being obligated at the time of award. Air Force Life Cycle Management Center, Tinker Air Force Base, Oklahoma, is the contracting activity (FA8106-16-D-0004).
Source: https://www.defense.gov/Newsroom/Contracts/Contract/Article/691728/

Additionally there have been contracts over the last few years to upgrade the interiors of individual aircraft at $16 million to $18 million a time.

The four C-32As are all 22+ years old. The 757 production line shut in 2004. As of October this year 569 757-200s are "still in service" however a significant number of these are "parked" or in storage.

The contract was awarded for the C-32 in August 1996. By using commercial, off-the-shelf acquisition practices, a new record was set from contract award to aircraft delivery – less than two years. The C-32 is the first military aircraft ever to be acquired in this manner. The 89th AW acquired the first of four aircraft in June 1998.
Source: www.af.mil

[GlobalNav]

They will need a deep-cleaning come January 20.

[tdracer]

The four C-32As are all 22+ years old. The 757 production line shut in 2004. As of October this year 569 757-200s are "still in service" however a significant number of these are "parked" or in storage.

If you go back pre-Covid, there not many of those 'in service but parked' 757s. 757 spares support has been good due to the remaining popularity of the 757 (total production was a bit over 1,000 aircraft).
That being said, I suspect many of those 'in service but parked' aircraft will not return to service - replaced by new aircraft with better fuel burn which will be abundant...

[chopper2004]

Over the years I have seen C-32 at the ‘Hall so here are my photos from last 6 years including the conspicuous white um hmm rapid response 90001.


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1053/5f925490_255e_403f_b860_230178b65dba_2d75c35eb587783465623d6 0e00a63043a3a6353.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1884x1314/e540a06e_d542_4cc4_b7e4_8ac931f7b508_95fb832e0a04e897a9fbae7 44b070bb8a4b27087.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/af7f916c_a0cb_49cd_95fa_caa2fd36b1a1_d7d14f7caefb357b2389b3a 23782024d893ef3a0.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1935x1290/9f53bf92_d069_443c_be0f_65804c0ead30_6fd86fb7f53855bc740ad80 1a9cb68cb9c9fb749.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1947x1298/fd1d74a6_f5a4_40e8_9044_a3a1be9f5bdf_e8704e3024240002534d443 0580f9566c2bbc7dc.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/ba1dd37a_9c34_4ec3_ac04_29c892b8d77d_63e87342be9045455113a85 e7b6e5f694d831bea.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/76501e7d_e000_4c9b_90e4_8ec8b1999d76_9cf9a1d17fc9b8514d7620b 78d6de04f732e0f8c.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/5cf84ffc_183f_4f09_a493_e99fb17bb199_c629f2eaca1eed3d032c7da 2c36aef8872d2f339.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/3248093e_7f2c_44bd_8ded_6080756e5b2f_11ab2ae3fa8f7a51ae309bc 9c0c0de0251589612.jpeg

The white bird has popped into the local area quite recently the other month.

Slightly digressing the anyone watch the documentary on the former POTUS corporate 757. This was when he was running for office and followed one such flight to Aberdeen then London and the C inspection in between. I myself have seen his 757 during Heli Expo 2016 at the corner of,my eye at KSDF on the way back to digs from the first day of the event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3kM7kCWl4U

cheers

[tdracer]

The C-32 is powered by PW2000 engines, while The Donald's personal 757 has Rolls RB211-535 engines.
The late Paul Allen (of Microsoft fame - also owned the Seattle Seahawks NFL team on the Portland Trailblazer NBA team) had two personal 757s - both Rolls powered. I used to see one at Boeing Field on a regular basis - I was told he parked the second one somewhere in Hawaii.:confused:

[OvertHawk]

The C-32 is powered by PW2000 engines, while The Donald's personal 757 has Rolls RB211-535 engines.
The late Paul Allen (of Microsoft fame - also owned the Seattle Seahawks NFL team on the Portland Trailblazer NBA team) had two personal 757s - both Rolls powered. I used to see one at Boeing Field on a regular basis - I was told he parked the second one somewhere in Hawaii.:confused:

Is the 757 now owned by the Donald not one of the ones previously owned by Paul Allen?

[SLXOwft]

Over the years I have seen C-32 at the ‘Hall so here are my photos from last 6 years including the conspicuous white um hmm rapid response 90001.

Ah, the mysterious white 757s with their allegedly rotating serials - apparently USAF appropriations only account for two airframes. The C-32B is AAR enabled and according to some sources have the RR engines.

Comco N226G & N610G or AFSOC 00-9001, 98-6006, 98-6006, 99-6143 and 02-5001 depending on mission profile or day of the week?.

A flavour of the speculation is given in this article.Boeing C-32BUnited States Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC) operates a small number of Boeing C-32B passenger jet aircraft, providing global airlift for U.S. government crisis response activities. These may include U.S. State Department Foreign Emergency Support Teams (FEST), which deploy in response to terrorism incidents around the world. They may also fly in support of CIA Special Activities.

The C-32B has been associated with the 150th Special Operations Squadron out of Joint Base McGuire, NJ (previously designated as 227th Special Operations Flight ) and the 486th Flight Test Squadron out of Elgin AFB, FL. These are highly secretive units, with little information publicly available about their activities. The aircraft have been spotted in a plain white paint scheme, with minimal markings. They appear to change serial numbers many times - no doubt an attempt to keep a low profile.

The aircraft are modified Boeing 757 airliners. They feature a standard seating fitment, as with a typical passenger jet. Any cargo must be stowed at the rear of the cabin as the usual cargo space in the hold has been configured to accomodate enlarged fuel tanks, extending the aircraft's unrefueled max range to 6000 nautical miles. The C-32Bs have been given an in-flight refuelling capability, via a Universal Aerial Refueling Receptacle Slipway Installation (USRRSI) located atop the fuselage, 15 feet aft of the nose, along the aircraft's centerline. Other fittments to the C-32B include a satellite communications package.

Souce: https://www.americanspecialops.com/usaf-special-operations/aircraft/boeing-c-32b/
:oh:

I am sure there are some out there who would like to see DJT being a 'special passenger' in one of these on 21JAN2021.:E (No offense intended to GOP supporters/members/voters)