Flying out of UK in current restrictions

[modelflyer]

The current (as at 12 November 2020) UK covid restrictions appear to prevent travel out of the UK apart from limited exceptions.

Has anyone flown out of Luton (or any other UK airport) in the last week? If so, were you asked about your reasons for departure?

We were booked to fly to Alicante on 17 November to spend 3 weeks at our second home in Alicante province, but have decided not to go because of the isolation requirements on our return (which would have ended on Christmas Eve, to the dismay of the lady of the house).

Thank you in advance for any information.

[S.o.S.]

Hi modelflyer, Have you checked in the LTN forum? They are an active bunch but might not have checked into our cabin recently.

[Mr Mac]

modelflyer
Yes I have flown out of the UK (Manchester and LHR) but I have not been asked for the reason for my trip (Business). However we do carry paperwork showing that we are travelling on company business, and that under Govt guidance our profession is classed as essential worker, and are therefore exempt from the restrictions on travel. I have yet to be asked by anyone in the UK to produce it, but I have been asked in Europe the reason for my visit a couple of times.

[Paul Lupp]

^
What were to happen if you had a business trip booked involving a flight and you had previously arranged to take your spouse with you?
Do I presume that under the current UK rules, spouse would have to stay back home?

What a mess the UK is in.....

[davidjohnson6]

Business travel is really low at the moment. The number of spouses hitching a ride is extremely low, given the constraints around quarantine and all the fun stuff abroad often being closed

Spouses travelling as part of business during a lockdown and how to handle cancellations is a LONG way down the priority list

[PAXboy]

This from an article in The Guardian on Tuesday 17th:
Airlines have piled more pressure on the UK government to open up transatlantic air corridors after the first confirmed “Covid-free flight” arrived at Heathrow and the launch of a pre-departure testing trial by British Airways.

A United Airlines flight from Newark arrived at London Heathrow on Tuesday morning having tested all of the passengers onboard to certify them free from coronavirus before departure.

About 40 passengers were cleared to travel, but one was refused after testing positive. The US carrier plans to operate 11 more Newark-Heathrow flights over the coming weeks, where every traveller agrees to be tested and cleared before takeoff.
Advertisement

Meanwhile, BA will give volunteer passengers a series of free tests before and after departure on a number of US-UK routes, to demonstrate that flying is safe and that testing could replace quarantine.

While the government has signalled a “test-and-release” scheme will soon be introduced to cut the isolation period for international arrivals, BA has urged it to scrap quarantine in favour of pre-departure testing.

[Paul Lupp]

Even if/when we are allowed to fly out of England for "leisure" purposes, there are still significant restrictions in many countries that would prevent you from venturing there..... I understand that the USA and Canada both have their borders closed to Brits, for example and many other countries have requirements for recent test results etc. Effectively it is a "stay at home" situation which must make the lives of those in the travel industry even more frustrated than I myself feel. Quite how anyone even contemplates scheduling commercial flights between countries when such draconian measures are in place, I do not know. It is a crazy world that we are now living in

[Mr Mac]

Paul Lupp
Sorry a bit late to come back to you. In normal times myself and my wife flit between Munich and Yorkshire weekly / bi weekly. Her career and job (at which she is far better than I !) is based in the UK and she could not work in Germany without a lot of retraining (Law). She can work remotely from Germany, as we all do currently, and has done so pre covid. However, though we own our apartment there, her profession and industry is not classed as essential and she does not have a resident permit like myself, and therefore she would not be classed as essential travel. It is me who has been flying back and forth, though I have spent longer in the UK under the current lockdown restrictions than I normally do, but have continued to travel within Europe, and indeed down to the Gulf a few times, though I am getting tired of being tested for travel purposes (over 20 tests now). I do not find the test that invasive to be honest, its just the hassle of getting it done in the required time period. On the plus side the A380 back in the air and the bar is open :)

[PAXboy]

Mr Mac You might be able to help with this query.

Transit: A friend is planning a trip where the best price involves a short layover (couple of hours) in Transit in MUC. Currently, the German govt lists the UK as an elevated risk.
My friend will have a Covid test certificate with her for the destination. Does anyone know whether she will be allowed to Transit (out and back a couple of weeks later)
Lastly, if they allow the Transit, would she further be allowed to go landside to have a meal with a cousin who travels out to the airport, before continuing her journey?

[Paul Lupp]

PAXboy - as to the cousin meeting the friend - unlikely if not a breach of the regulations in Germany....
https://www.visitberlin.de/en/important-information-your-visit-berlin

Extract
Dear Berlin visitors and Berliners,

from Monday, 2 November, stricter corona restrictions will apply throughout Germany. Only if we are all careful together in the coming weeks and adhere to the given rules can new infections be avoided.

Reduce your contacts to an absolute minimum. Meetings with one other household and a maximum of ten people in total are permitted.

Please restrict private meetings to a fixed additional household.

Please avoid private parties.

Please refrain from leisure activities, private trips and tourist day trips.

Don't use public transportation if not necessary and avoid staying in closed spaces.

Only visit people from risk groups if you do not have any symptoms of illness.

If you have a respiratory disease, call in sick.








Unfortunately, you can only experience art and culture digitally (https://www.visitberlin.de/en/blog/museums-berlin-are-open) in November. Of course, we will send you home inspirations from Berlin again this time. Museums, concert halls, operas theatres, tourist attractions, cinemas and clubs will remain closed until 1 December.

Restaurants, bars, fitness and yoga studios, swimming pools, trade fairs and other event locations will remain closed. Major sporting events will be broadcast virtually and on television.





Similar to England, it would appear that trips "just to visit someone" are banned... I wonder if there are any places to get food in the airport at the moment or if they have all had to close down?
As to passing through "landside" during the layover/wait, I understand that so long as the friend's certificate meets the German requirements (test performed within the past xx hours etc) there would not be a problem. Similarly when checking in for the next flight, reason for travel being that he/she was in transit and already had a ticket for the next flight should be a valid reason to permit onward travel.

[Mr Mac]

Paxboy
I think Paul Lupp may have answered your question for you, with regards being able to do what your friend wanted. I do not change planes in Munich, as it is always my final destination when going there. I may fly in, go to the office for a day or more, and sometimes very occasionally, fly out the same night, but I know I have yet to transit there straight onto another flight.

[PAXboy]

Thanks very much Mr Mac and Paul Lupp. Have passed info on.

ps Found the Lufty FAQ to be very helpful and their vitual assistant found information very quickly.

[PAXboy]

Qantas CEO states 'No Covid Vaccination = No fly"
Qantas plans to make vaccination against COVID-19 compulsory for passengers once the airline resumes international flying next year, and expects other airlines around the world will follow suit.

Speaking with Channel 9's A Current Affair this evening, CEO Alan Joyce said "we are looking at changing our terms and conditions to say for international travellers, that we will ask people to have a vaccination before they can get on the aircraft."

Reported in various places if you search but I saw it here: Executive Traveller magazine (https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-mandatory-covid-vaccination-for-international-flights)

[TimGriff6]

That is a strange thing for an airline (or any organisation) to ask for isn't it? Perhaps I have it wrong but I thought that a vaccination protects the person who has had it, not the people around them. If I've had an effective vaccination I don't care whether the people around me have the disease or are carriers, I won't get it. I am taking responsibility for myself and don't care about what other people are doing. Now, if they were asking for proof by test that I haven't got the disease in the interim period when vaccinations have been started but the world programme has not completed, I could understand it because proof of a vaccination has a much longer life than a test result. Given that the UK Government have already suggested that they will give priority to the elderly and care workers, it is likely to take a long time before the younger part of the population is in a position to produce proof of vaccination. I think that they are barking up the wrong tree here but as I said, I may be wrong.

Please put me right?

[fitliker]

Which vaccines are effective against all Six mutations ? Or will we need all vaccines under development ? Or just the vaccine for that particular Covid mutation in that particular region ?

[Hartington]

If a vaccination is going to work the vaccinated person has to be exposed to the virus and it has to enter the person so that the vaccination can reject it. It means that, essentially, you have to catch it for the vaccination to work. That's why the vaccinations are NOT 100% effective.
It means that we have to get to a high vaccination rate to beat this. Polio was beaten largely becuase the world managed to vaccinate everyone. It's why measles keeps reappearing because we are failing to vaccinate enough people.
On its' own the fact that I've been vaccinated doesn't mean I can drop my guard; yet.

[PAXboy]

How fortunate that no biz travellers, jounalists or elite sports personalities have caught the virus yet ...

Business travellers, journalists and elite sports personalities will be among those exempt from the government’s 14-day quarantine restriction from 5 December.

At the moment, anyone returning from a destination that’s not on the government’s travel corridors list are subject to a mandatory 14-day self-isolation. Even those transiting through a country that’s not on the travel corridors list will be subject to quarantine. Travellers can shorten this to five days under the test to release system, by paying for a private test on day five and provided it returns a negative result.

However, Transport Secretary Grant Shapps confirmed on Twitter that certain individuals will be exempt from all quarantine on arrival in England.

The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/travel-corridors-quarantine-exemption-business-traveller-b1765859.html)

[Asturias56]

Which vaccines are effective against all Six mutations ? Or will we need all vaccines under development ? Or just the vaccine for that particular Covid mutation in that particular region ?

Current view is that CV19 doesn't mutate that much and that right now there isn't a lot to worry about. Current vaccines should be able to cope with them

However, like flu', in future years it WILL continue to mutate and at some point other vaccines will be required. But , like flu', these will be relatively easy to modify as the basic structure of both virus and vaccine are well understood. You'll get a yearly CV19 shot same way as you can get a yearly flu jab.

Remember the point isn't to erase the disease , it's to protect the vulnerable and keep the level on infections low enough that normal (-ish) life can continue and the hospital system s don't get overwhelmed.

[PAXboy]

Does anyone know if there is Govt/Police action at LHR (or others) to stop people travelling. I am, truly, asking for a friend!

[Musket90]

If your friend lives in a Tier 4 area then they should remain within the Tier 4 area and not travel. If not living in a Tier 4 area but need to travel through LHR which is in Tier 4 then they "should consider the public health advice in the country you are visiting".so travelling in this situation is permitted. I don't know who would do checks at Heathrow to verify, maybe at airline check-in or passport control.

[PAXboy]

Unfortuntely for all those travelling in the next 48 hours, it will take much of that time for countries to decide, then to annouce and then for airlines to respond.
Yesterday it was stated that LHR was in Tier 3, today is is stated to be in Tier 4.

[DaveReidUK]

I don't know who would do checks at Heathrow to verify, maybe at airline check-in or passport control.

I suspect the airline's interest is confined to whether or not they will be able to get you off the plane at the destination. After that, you aren't their problem.

[PAXboy]

Airlines and Airports waiting to be told what to do by Govt. so that it's not their fault, which is understandable.
Uruguay, Namibia and the US Virgin Islands have been removed from the UK government’s list of travel corridors.

All arrivals into the UK from these three destinations will now be subject to mandatory quarantine.

Transport Secretary Grant Shapps tweeted: “From 4am Saturday 19 December, if you arrive into the UK from these destinations you will need to self-isolate.”

[PAXboy]

Update from LHR on Monday 21st.

My friend learnt late Sunday night that Austria would close border to UK on Monday 24:00
Her routing is LHR-VIE-CPT with Austrian/LH Group.
On early arrival at T2, Security were placed between the car park and the Departures floor.
They had a list of which flights were operating and only letting in the pax for those.
I looked up her originating from VIE and could see that it had just left and told the security staff of that.
Went back to the car.
She found only self-check desks open but got through airside no probs.
Changed in VIE and is now over Africa.
Expect this to be VERY different on Tuesday.

[PAXboy]

I should like to ask of any who have travelled out of the UK by any airport, in 2021: Were there any screening of your Passport? Other than being asked by airport and airline staff to ensure you had the document, was there a Border Force inspection desk? Was the passport scanned?

[TimGriff6]

Good luck with getting an answer to that from someone willing to incriminate themselves!

[Squawk 6042]

I flew from Manchester last week-end. The only physical check of the passport was by the airline check-in staff, as is usual. There was no Border Force inspection desk for departure, as usual. Of course the airline may pass such details to Border Force.

I am not sure what point TimGriff6 is making.

[Hartington]

These days, when you make a booking, you also enter your passport details at some point in the process. When you get to the airport the check in process (be it manual or automated) also scans the passport. That information then goes down a range of electronic pipes to a range of government agencies both here and at destination.

In the case of the USA (for instance) the flight cannot depart until an electronic clearance has been recieved from the USA. It also explains why you no longer have to give up the tear off bit of the entry form becuase they check you out of the country electronically.

I'll leave it up to you to guess what other countries (including the UK) do.

[PAXboy]

Thanks folks. I was trying to ascertain if the outgoing border was being actively monitored. It seems as if the govt have taken the cheap and easy option of relying on the airlines to do the data collection for them.

[Asturias56]

why change the habits of a lifetime?

the UK hasn't monitored people leaving properly in over 30 years

[PAXboy]

Exactly my reason for asking! It is a problem that long predates the 'secure our borders' people. If you do not know who has left - you do not know who has not left. All those years of complaining that people were over staying their visa - yet they saved the money on staffing and admin, making it easy for people to overstay. But then, in my employment over the last 43 years I was paid to solve problems.

[TimGriff6]

I am not sure what point TimGriff6 is making.
Just a dig at the number of people currently leaving their homes and the country on work related travel to sunny places because holiday travel is effectively banned - you can ignore me.

[Squawk 6042]

No problem! There is still legitimate travel allowed (for now), so I can happily reply without incriminating myself!!

[esa-aardvark]

As a Kiwi, I know that New Zealand checks people in and out electronically.
Not so long ago I had to prove my travels. No problem, just email the ministry
and back comes a list of entry and exit dates. I do not believe that the UK does,
or could do that.

[PAXboy]

To save yet another thread: this is about Flying IN to the UK.

New quarantine rules expected for travellers to UK

Measure would be an ‘effective closure of our borders’, the airline industry says

Boris Johnson is expected to sign off sweeping new quarantine rules for travellers in airport hotels on Tuesday as cabinet ministers rebuffed pressure from Tory MPs to set out a timetable for the easing of lockdown.

In what Downing Street said was a more cautious approach since England’s third lockdown, a No 10 source said: “We don’t ever want to unlock anything if we have to lock it again.” It may mean coronavirus travel curbs and other restrictions remaining in place for months.

The hotel quarantine measure, which government sources said may take “weeks rather than days” to implement, would be an “effective closure of our borders”, the airline industry said.

Ten-day stays are expected to cost upwards of £1,000 for each traveller. Some countries, which imposed similar regimes from March last year, charge many thousands for accommodation, board and security, with occupants confined to their rooms, including for exercise.
The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/25/new-quarantine-rules-expected-for-travellers-to-uk)

[edi_local]

I thought the latest idea was to impose it only for high-risk countries. I know others have done the whole 14 days, but some for of early test and release system would surely be better?

I know a case was found in NZ the other day where the person had completed their 14-day isolation, tested negative 3 times, and then still, in the end, had covid. That is very much an outlier though.

[PAXboy]

It seems that they will start by imposing this ban on Africa and South America, due to new variants. That will give them time to get the system operating. Then add other countries. How long it will take to get things started is to be seen. Hopefully, they have already prepared a specification for this (but I would not bet on it!) and sounded out airport hotels but, many of those hotels were mothballed and it may take a couple of weeks to get staff back, food and supplies, security - if the lower floors have fully opening windows they cannot use those rooms and so forth.

They will do this and I would expect the restrictions to be in place for at least three months.

[Mr Mac]

Paxboy
Outbound on Monday to the rest of the world so will let you know if I am asked the purpose of my visit. On that point I have stayed in a number of hotels while touring various UK construction projects and buildings over the last 4 weeks and was only asked in one by a young receptionist what was the purpose of my stay (Premier Inn Tolworth take a bow for last night). Back North later today and then Germany Monday, then Far East later in the week hopefully (more Covid test !!!!), with one of our younger female structural engineers. It will be funny to see if I get asked if we are going on holiday (very flattering for me, but no doubt not so for her).

Cheers
Mr Mac

[PAXboy]

This was an inevitability:

Europol warns against fake Covid certificates
Coronavirus Global Update (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtv39) Europol says criminals are selling fake negative Covid test certificates, allowing people to avoid travel bans.

Talking of Covid tests ... friends of mine had their test for travel on 19th December. One hour later - Boris reversed the promises he had made and they could not travel to be with his family for Christmas. Does anyone know of any insurance covering this cost (taken before hand of course) or any action open? My guess is the govt say 'tough luck' but it is a few hundred pounds to people saving for their first house.

[Mr Mac]

Paxboy
Outbound on Monday to the rest of the world so will let you know if I am asked the purpose of my visit. On that point I have stayed in a number of hotels while touring various UK construction projects and buildings over the last 4 weeks and was only asked in one by a young receptionist what was the purpose of my stay (Premier Inn Tolworth take a bow for last night). Back North later today and then Germany Monday, then Far East later in the week hopefully (more Covid test !!!!), with one of our younger female structural engineers. It will be funny to see if I get asked if we are going on holiday (very flattering for me, but no doubt not so for her).

Cheers
Mr Mac
Paxboy
I was asked how much hard currency I was taking out of the UK which was something I do not recall ever being asked before. I seem to remember way back in the early 70,s or late 60,s having to declare what money you were taking out, indeed I seem to remember it being written in your Passport at the time if I am correct. Nothing what so ever on Covid.
Cheers
Mr Mac

[Alsacienne]

I seem to remember way back in the early 70,s or late 60,s having to declare what money you were taking out, indeed I seem to remember it being written in your Passport at the time

That strikes a chord from my dim and distant past ..... wasn't it maximum £50 and it had to be declared on a 'V' form stamped in one's passport?

All the best for your travels and please stay safe.

[wiggy]

This was an inevitability:

Europol warns against fake Covid certificates
Coronavirus Global Update (https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtv39) Europol says criminals are selling fake negative Covid test certificates, allowing people to avoid travel bans.



I gather from a reliable source that it's been going on for some time.

Late last autumn/early winter I gather some passengers were presenting gate staff at a UK airport with fake certificates in an attempt to get on flights out of the UK.

[Asturias56]

That strikes a chord from my dim and distant past ..... wasn't it maximum £50 and it had to be declared on a 'V' form stamped in one's passport?

All the best for your travels and please stay safe.

Indeed - and you had to grovel to your bank to get it. It was the foundation of the modern sun 'n sand business out of the UK tho as if you paid for "all inclusive" the £ 50 was just spending money. Mrs T abolished it on her 2nd or 3rd day in office (to cries of horror) IIRC

[PAXboy]

I certainly remember going to the bank with passport and cheque book to get Deutsche Marks around 1975 on my first solo trip to Europe.

On the matter of returning to the UK. My South African friend who had scraped out under the closing gate before Christmas, got back in last week! Now doing her two weeks isolation although she will be working from home during that.

Having filled in the form online for Lufthansa, for the transit at FRA, on arrival at CPT the airport wanted their OWN form to be filled in as well. She had already filled in the online forms for the UK and printed them just in case. On arrival at LHR T2, she was asked if she had filled in the forms. When she said, "Yes" they did not want to see them. She supposes that their thinking was - she would not have got that far without having filled in the forms and having the test.

Who knows?!!

[Mr Mac]

Paxboy
Interesting going through DXB, in that as I show up as a dual national I was asked which passport I wanted to use if I had both with me. The officer kindly said it may be useful to use my Swiss one if I had it with me therefore not having a UAE entry on my UK one upon my return to the UK. Not quite the spirit of the pandemic, but the Rumanian gentleman behind me was offered the same who had just come from LHR so appears to be pretty standard request. Good to hear that I was right re the old cash values in passport, as a number of you have confirmed. I understand it is about money laundering but after years of flying that is the first time I have ever been asked that question. I thought Brexit maybe bringing yet another benefit not.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[PAXboy]

This reported in The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/12/uk-immigration-officials-have-had-no-information-about-hotel-quarantine?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other)

UK immigration officials 'have had no information' about hotel quarantine

Border staff not briefed about even basics of Covid protection system starting on Monday, says union

Immigration officials expected to enforce a mandatory quarantine intended to protect the UK from new coronavirus variants have not been briefed on even the basics about how the system will work, little more than 48 hours before it begins, the Guardian has been told.

The Immigration Services Union (ISU), which represents many of the Home Office’s immigration officers, said that before the start on Monday of the new policy, staff had not been told if they would be expected to check for arrivals who had not properly declared their status, or when and how those obliged to quarantine would be taken to hotels.

“They’ve had no information at all,” said Lucy Moreton, the general secretary of the ISU. “They can watch the media, read statements from ministers, but that’s pretty much it.”


This was reported on Friday and the govt have lots of time over the weekend to make sure all staff are fully briefed before Monday 05:00. :D

[Booglebox]

Some relations of a friend of mine travelled, rather cheekily, from London to Austria via Switzerland yesterday. No questions at any stage, apparently

[PAXboy]

Flight Global magazine report:
IATA health passport app to roll out with 20 airlines

Around 20 airlines will from March begin trialing an IATA app that allows passengers to securely store and share the Covid-19 vaccine and test records they need to travel internationally.

The industry body announced its digital health passport in November, and believes it will be a vital tool in convincing governments to unlock their borders and allowing “seamless” journeys as flying picks up again.

IATA is working at “full capacity” to roll out the Travel Pass and talking to “30 to 40” other carriers about adopting its “digital platform for passengers”, says head of passenger and security products, Alan Hayden.

IATA is not marketing the product directly to consumers, but rather encouraging airlines to incorporate the technology into their own customer apps. It will contain information on what tests, vaccines and other measures passengers require before travel to various destinations; a means of recording their health status; and, importantly, an internationally-consistent and simple way of conveying that to airline and immigration officials.

IATA’s is one of several similar initiatives where an app effectively serves as a health passport. They include CommonPass, which is backed by the Rockerfeller Foundation and was tested at London’s Heathrow Airport late last year.

[PAXboy]

BBC today (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56295486)
English travellers face fines and losing flights without new permit.
Anyone travelling overseas from England from Monday will have to prove they are allowed to travel, or risk being turned away from the airport and fined.

They will need to complete a "Declaration to Travel" document from a government website.

The form sets out that their trip is permitted under current restrictions, such as for education or work.

Police officers will be conducting spot checks and may ask travellers to produce a completed form.

[Asturias56]

More Pritti madness - they have better things to do than check hundreds of pieces of paperwork (many of which will bear no relation to the truth) - they can't even check passports outgoing in normal times.

How is anyone going to be able "to check with your employer" at 07:00 on Sunday morning?