Printer Ink Scam

[Ancient Observer]

Printer Ink pricing issue.

I have an old Canon, and it works well with remanufactured ink cartridges. These are much cheaper than the branded ones. It also doesn't seem to want to update its software, so the scam has not applied to it, yet.
However, Daughter no 1 bought an HP printer. It was cheap - about UKP60ish. It will only accept "genuine" HP ink. At UKP35 a pop!!

Googling the issue shows that both Epson and HP pull this scam. Canon also try with "software updates" There are workarounds, but they are difficult and do not always work.

Does anyone know of a brand of inexpensive printer that does not pull this nasty trick? It seems to be very non-competitive, and the manufacturers say they have signed a voluntary agreement not to do it. Cough cough.

Thanks

AO

[Repos]

I had to trash an HP a couple of years ago and bought an Epsom XP445. It's been a bit temperamental with the WiFi and needs to run the cleaning program now and then but I can use cheap cartridges with no problem.
My experience with inkjets is that they need to be used regularly or they play up, and every head clean and calibration test uses more ink.
My frustration with inkjet printers led me to consider how necessary colour was so I also bought a Brother Laser printer and that's what I use most now.
It sits in sleep mode and jumps to life on the WiFi whenever I need it. Cartridges are more expensive but last for ages and don't give any problems in between prints.

Laser - Why doesn't this print the 'a' properly on Pprune?

[BirdmanBerry]

https://wirthconsulting.org/2019/12/20/dutch-court-rules-against-hp-in-firmware-case/

Ee sell all brands of compatible inks and don't normally have issues. Which HP ink is it she uses?

[stevef]

I've had a Brother DCP-197C for years and it happily prints using non-branded ink cartridges. Never had a problem with it.

[Thrust Augmentation]

Does anyone know of a brand of inexpensive printer that does not pull this nasty trick?

I've been out of the Ink jet thing since moving onto laser years ago, & the same may not be true of of ink jet, but typically with a cheap laser you pay through the nose for consumables, with a dearer laser you may pay less for the consumables.


I got that tired of shelling out for colour cartridges on ink jets (which either lasted the blink of any eye, dried or otherwise failed) that I tipped the home ink jet for a B&W laser - it's cost a fraction of what the ink jet did & nobody has moaned about the lack of colour.

It's all nonsense - wife recently needed 4 toner carts & an imaging unit for her about 1 year old printer at work & it was cheaper to buy the same printer new (with high capacity toners) - planned obsolescence / capitalism / craziness.......

[ShyTorque]

I have an Epson WF3520, which is a three in one type (not that anyone uses Fax these days, which is an indication of how long I’ve owned it). I’ve always used aftermarket cartridges with no trouble. It uses separate cartridges for each colour. Cheap as chips to run. The postal delivery service from the company I use is extremely quick.

If you looked up “Internet” and “Ink” you might find them.

[421dog]

Bite the bullet and upgrade to the ink bins. It costs a few more bucks up front, but makes an incredible difference downstream. I have two, and have spent maybe $30 in ink for thousands of prints. Both of mine are Epson 3600 series, And a couple years old, but I’m sure there’s something better.

[Loose rivets]

It was ten years ago I wrote up my woes on PPRuNe. Epson had been kind, or so it seemed, they told me to go and get my printer out of the canal (where I said I'd thrown it) and send it back. Yaaaay, I got a later model. Boooo, the cartridges were tiny. I think, three more printers arrived, and I ended up being up one machine. Didn't matter, none of them kept the ink going to the heads. I was squirting wind-shield washer fluid through the minute holes when Epson phoned.

I got my son's Kodak. He'd believed Donald Trump when he'd promoted the idea of Kodak's low ink costs. I remember the TV promotion. How funny. If we could glimpse the future, we'd think we'd gone insane.

Anyway, I ended up with 5 printers, left on the front porch with a letter of permission to take them. Craiglist's Free Stuff set up the deal in less than a minute from putting the ad in.

[jolihokistix]

I very rarely use my printer, but it usually is for something vital when I do.

By then the ink (more valuable than gold by weight, it is sometimes said) has dried out, so it takes time and energy and costs me the equivalent of around 50 USD to print off a sheet or two. The small print on the box of the after-market stuff will usually indicate compatibility for which printer though.

[ChrisJ800]

The price of printer ink is more than the expensive perfumes. Costs about 20 cents to produce a cartrdge they can sell for over $50.

[Beamr]

The thing is: the more the printer costs, the bigger the cartridges hence lower cost per page.

At home: Just go for a laser, as the laser toner will not dry up and with a reasonable printer you can get 5000-10000 pages out of a cartridge (not the initial cartridge, though). This is crucial: buy a model which has high yield toners available as only then it makes sense to buy a new toner instead of a printer. Cheap printer has low yield toners (500-1500 pages), as a better printer has more bang for the buck on the cartridges.

At business: way different story if you print a lot. Ink is the way to go.

[FlightDetent]

Brother, ideally one above the cheapest model.

Researching the original ink/cartridge prices for those reveals a lot, buy the original for the price of an equivalent is not your everyday scamming concept.

Not to mention most big-name cheap ink printers come with "starter" packages (half full) so already within a year of purchase the cash flow equals buying to a Brother. For those nobody bothers to produce off-brand ink.

[ATSA1]

I used to have HP Printer/Scanner/Copiers for years, but this year the price of the cartridges has shot up here in South Africa. Back in January this year, i got a XL cartridge for 670 rand..(about £33), but by Septemeber it was R900, and was told the next shipment would cost R1000!
A XL cartridge in my printer was good for about 300 pages...
So i bought a Canon G3010 Printer Scanner Copier and this had seperate ink tanks filled by bottles..the ones in the box has enough for about 7000pages!.. I bought some refills soon after (just in case!) and these cost R900, so I have about 14 000 pages worth of ink for the price of 2 HP XL carts...which would give me only 600 pages...a no brainer!

I see that most of the big printer manufacturers are going over to this "ink tank" technology now...a much cheaper option!

[Momoe]

BEAMR,

Ink is the way to go for volume printing? Got any statistics to back that up?

[Momoe]

You buy a cheap colour inkjet printer (and we're talking <£40) and replacement ink cartridges cost more than printer, ink heads dry up and require constant cleaning, cartridges require constantly replacing and print costs per sheet are astronomic.

You wouldn't buy a diesel to do short journeys or cheap trainers to run marathons, cost implications of cheap inkjet printers are well documented, so who is being scammed?

Buy cheap, buy twice or in the case of inkjet cartridges, multiple times. Caveat emptor.

[Wycombe]

Googling the issue shows that both Epson and HP pull this scam

It's not a scam (that naming implies something illegal). It may not be palatable to the consumer but it's a legitimate business practice designed to "lock in" the Customer.

The printers are deliberately sold at a loss, because the money will be made on the ink (a bit like Sky who provide their satellite dishes and boxes in similar circumstances).

[Asturias56]

It was, of course King Gillette, who had this brilliant idea way back - he gave the razors away at one point I believe

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

A few years ago I purchased an Epson EcoTank-4550 printer. Very expensive at the time (£320) but came with 9 bottles of ink (70ml each), 6 coloured and 3 black and 3 reams of paper To date I have printed 9497 pages. I have not bought any further ink and there is ink left in the tanks. It also provides me with duplex printing. I have been very pleased with the purchase. It may not be the best on the market but it satisfies all home uses so far.

Aaron.

[cattletruck]

The printers are deliberately sold at a loss

When your ink dries or runs out, it's often cheaper to purchase a new printer and throw the old one into landfill.
I got very tired of replacing ink cartridges for my HP all-in-one which cost about $50 for a b/w ink cartridge, $70 for a tri-colour ink cartridge, or $90 for a combo set.
So I bought a Brother laser printer for $55 that came with a token toner cartridge that had a smaller capacity than the normal replacement ones, and all the headaches with ink cartridges have gone away.

Agree that those ink cartridges cost next to nothing to make, and it's both a rip-off and environmentally irresponsible by the manufacturers.

[CHfour]

It's not just printers. I have a Panasonic camera and they announced a software upgrade to correct a colour tinge issue but the small print also stated that, after the "upgrade", the camera would no longer accept third party batteries. They say it's to protect the owners from faulty batteries so why do they charge 6 times the price for oem ones? They could halve their prices and still make a healthy profit but they are greedy like the printer manufacturers.

[Beamr]

BEAMR,

Ink is the way to go for volume printing? Got any statistics to back that up?

Of course: roughly 95% of all the print outs in the world are made with inks. Consider news papers etc.
But in the office as well: HP has been out with press based ink solutions (HP PageWide) for ten years, and it is significantly cheaper to use than toner based devices (less wearing parts, less parts in general, faster speeds, up to 90% less energy consumption etc). In fact, it has been so competitive that Canon, Kyocera and others are coming up with their ink solutions for office in the near future.
Also, looking at large format printing, more than 95% of solutions are ink based, and that is professional usage in its purest form with significant volumes (photos, ads, line drawings, CAD etc). Never minding the packaging business with all the amazon/UPS/DHL/younameit boxes being printed.
Adding 3D printing, which is always a liquid form being printed (though it may be in solid form in the beginning).

Coming back to office printing; If in doubt, take a look at this, it took Canon 10 years to admit that ink is the way to go but now they are doing it: https://asia.canon/en/consumer/new-high-performance-a3-enterprise-inkjet-business-printers/news

So the fact is that ink is the way in large volumes and professional printing. Dry toners are still useful, but in the future in more specific areas.

[nickp]

I use a Canon inkjet because it also prints colour pics, one thing that lasers can't do.

[Beamr]

I use a Canon inkjet because it also prints colour pics, one thing that lasers can't do.
there are color lasers as well.
but ink does make better photo quality if media is correct.

[Klimax]

Alixexpress from China. I got sick and tired of paying ridiculous prices for HP ink cartridges. Had three sent from China Aliexpress - took about 3 weeks to arrive in Europe. Perfectly fine quality both in color, black and white.

Just an example below (not sure of Pprune will let me post it):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000817475267.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.24d518adJKmHbU&algo_pvid=bd6e3426-fee7-4d63-ae37-a80d9a6e29fa&algo_expid=bd6e3426-fee7-4d63-ae37-a80d9a6e29fa-0&btsid=0bb0622a16050354274797930ebe81&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

[FlightDetent]

Genuine Brother LC-529-XL (LC529XLBK), at local toner-partner pro shop: 8 USD (incl VAT) for nominal 2400 pages.
The Aliexpress generic replacement of HP 301XL, i.e. 480 nominal pages is listed at 13 USD (original 33 USD).

Still a difference.

[BDandD]

I bought an HP Envy 5000 from Argos for under £50 and joined the HP Instant Ink scheme. I pay £1.99 a month to print up to 50 pages a month, plus a rollover from unused pages from previous months. New cartridges arrive whenever the printer senses a replacement is needed and they arrive in good time. So for £24 a year I get a continuous supply of cartridges when needed and I have absolutely no complaints with the HP scheme. It doesn't matter if I print 50 A4 photos a month which are really heavy on ink as the scheme works on pages printed, not ink used.

[IBMJunkman]

I have had Canon, HP and Epson ink jets. The latter was a tank model. Unless they are used very frequently the ink dries out in the nozzles. And no amount of cleaning cycles will clear it.

I now have a Brother color laser. Double sided printing and scanning, 2nd tray for legal paper. Prints correctly every time no matter how many days between print jobs. Should have moved years ago.

[Momoe]

In reply to NickP,

My 8yr old Epson C1750n laser prints colour pictures very well, an inkjet with photographic paper is better for photographs but perfectly acceptable for Excel charts and the usual homework print-outs; I'd imagine current models have better capability.

[Magnate]

I have used the Canon 3411 for the past 8 months-basic home use and homework printing. Am almost halfway on the ink-but still have a full black ink bottle that came with the printer. Prints crisp photos up to A4 size too. Very satisfied with the quality of the printouts.
https://www.canon.com.cy/printers/pixma-g3411/

[Ancient Observer]

Thanks, all.
So the story seems to be to buy cheap printer, and pay huge prices for ink, or take out a mortgage for a printer....................

[Momoe]

Not necessarily so, Grade A refurbished Epson C1600 printer on the South American river for £149.99, 90 day RTB.

HP Laser 150A new at <£155, you can re-mortgage too if that floats your boat 😁

[horatio_b]

My Epson 760XL inkjet printer is around 20 years old and still going strong. I only use it occasionally, but often enough to stop the ink from drying up on the heads. Compatible cartridges are available for £3 and work fine - the genuine Epson ones cost around £45.
One thing to be careful of with old printers is it might stop working with an error message stating "certain parts have reached the end of their usable life and that your printer will no longer work until it is serviced.". It implies that you need to have the printer serviced.
Google the message and you will find instructions on resetting the print counter so that you can continue using the printer as before. I think this might be an attempt by Epson to get you to ditch the printer and buy a newer model.

[Ant T]

I will go against the majority here, and say that having used HP printers for years, I have always found them very good mechanically, and found that aftermarket cartridges have been more trouble than they are worth, dry up worse than original equipment, and much poorer print quality. The printers are pretty inexpensive (loss-leader), and yes, the inks are expensive, but much better quality (in my opinion)

[jetjockey696]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/579x432/inktank_c6eb6c88f7419d5be0ec19680ceec9670bc1fe1a.png
This is what you need. external ink tanks. these are DIY Kits and it nearly fit all inkjets. never buy cartridges again. Just Google .. external ink tanks.. there are many many different vendors out there.

[rogerg]

I have to agree with Ant T. For general home use the HP printer and cartridges do just fine.

[FlightDetent]

Thanks, all.
So the story seems to be to buy cheap printer, and pay huge prices for ink, or take out a mortgage for a printer.................... Or rather buy smart, buy Japanese?

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/940x2000/screenshot_2020_11_12_00_04_51_056_com_android_chrome_ec96a2 c3aea033f72ca46b5ebd56432e0624a0e2.jpg

​

[Beamr]

Or rather buy smart, buy Japanese?

​
On a side note: they are all made in far east, no matter what the brand is... China, Malaysia, Philippines, Japan etc. Canon has huge factories in China, HP has factories in Malaysia, Philippines, China etc and nowadays South Korea as HP bought the Samsung printing division so in essence a good chance is that choosing HP you buy Korean. Brother has plants in Taiwan, China, Vietnam etc.

But strictly from IT perspective; if you want something that just works and causes no troubles, then it's HP and OEM cartridges. Remanufactured cartridges are a pain, and no one really wants to spend time and money on refilling anything in business environment.

[Geordie_Expat]

I have to agree with Ant T. For general home use the HP printer and cartridges do just fine.

Me too and I find the HP cartridges not that expensive when I buy from HP Store online.

[Jet II]

If you are bothered about the price of ink cartridges then just buy an Epson ink tank printer - then you just pour in either original or compatible ink straight out of the bottle.

[WB627]

Mrs WB627 ran a Beaver Colony for scouts, taught a Sunday school class at church and did a few other voluntary things on top of that that all required a lot of mainly B&W printing. Having gone through a couple of cheap laser printers which didn't last long despite refiling the toners, I bought a top of the range HP2300 DTN with a very low print count (sub 10K), on eBay for £40 with a nearly full toner cartridge. It was the best thing I ever did. We had HP2300's at work and they did 0000's of copies every week and were bulletproof. We've had it for 10 years and I'm only on my second new cartridge; I've only ever paid a maximum of £15 for a replacement (genuine HP toner) on eBay. The cartridge has the drum built into it so every time you put a new one in, you get a new drum.

Ha Ha :hmm: I bought a Kodak printer, good sized cartridges lasted a along time and excellent photo prints, but when it came to replacing the cartridge, it was actually cheaper to buy a new one, so that's what I did.

[Saab Dastard]

I acquired a HP 4050N mono laser printer back in 2001 that was no longer required following a technology refresh and outsourcing transition for a government department. It wasn't new then, but over 19 years later it's still going strong! OK, the duplex unit no longer works, but I just removed it. The long life cartridges are good for 10,000 pages, so last about 5 years or so (and new old stock are dirt cheap on eb@y). Best acquisition ever, especially as it cost me nothing.

By contrast, I've had 3 inkjet printers over the same time span that have all fallen by the wayside due to clogged print heads - OK, we didn't often use colour printing, but such a pain to have to spend an hour (or so it seemed) clearing the print heads to occasionally print anything in colour. Never again. I'm going to get a colour laser when (if) the HP 4050N finally dies. I don't have space for 2 printers any more, otherwise I'd already have bought one.

SD

[Ancient Observer]

Thanks for all the help. Still not decided on the solution. Daughter resents dumping the HP, and is "thinking". Meanwhile, using my printer which uses cheap inks.