BA and Ryanair crews put into quarantine from Denmark

[LTNman]

Pilots and cabin crew flying in from Copenhagen now have to quarantine for 14 days from today. This also applies to their families. Any volunteers for tomorrow’s flights?

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/denmark-travel-ban-flights-british-airways-ryanair-cabin-crew-pilot-b1667693.html

[scr1]

Loganair have canceled their ABZ-EBJ flights

[ara01jbb]

Unexpected discovery of the day: that Danes factory farm mink on an industrial scale. :eek:

[Globally Challenged]

The Dutch are in on the same game I believe

[Pistonprop]

A mandatory screening of all Dutch mink farms has been instituted and infected mink farms are culled as of 5 June. A mandatory closing scheme for Dutch mink farms will be introduced from the spring of 2021.

[LTNman]

The whole point is if this new strain gets outside Denmark and is community spread then we could be back to day zero with a new vaccine required. Think China December 2019.

[STN Ramp Rat]

and it gives a taste of the future ..... this time round the UK was quick with backdated quarantine and banning Danish Citizens from visiting the UK. I think this is going to happen whenever any country has an unexpected outbreak of anything going forward.

[PilotLZ]

There would have been lots and lots of whining if the same had been done with China the very moment they reported the initial outbreak. But who knows, it could have worked out a lot cheaper long-term... But we were a bit too busy analysing the violation of human rights in the Wuhan lockdown back then. Only to find our own lockdown being presented as "a community effort to protect the NHS and save lives" a mere two months later.

[bvcu]

Spain also culled over 100,000 mink a little while ago, so not new........

[Jack D]

I too was surprised that “enlightened” countries
like Denmark and the Netherlands were involved in industrial scale fur farms.

I wondered where the market for such product could be as fur is definitely out of favour for fashion clothing in these days .

No surprises ! China is the main recipient of farmed animal pelts. It would seem the mink are the ones with a grievance as they were infected by farm workers, they recovered and passed the virus back in mutated form.

Time to learn that keeping animals in a crowded , hot house environment is unhealthy for all concerned

[Feathers McGraw]

The whole point is if this new strain gets outside Denmark and is community spread then we could be back to day zero with a new vaccine required. Think China December 2019.

The thing is, coronaviruses actually don't mutate that rapidly, especially not within a species. That means that the human immune system does gain long term immunity quite quickly due to normal population transmission. We don't generally need vaccines for this type of relatively benign virus. People who had SARS in 2003 still show T-cell and antibody immunity after 17 years.

The vaccine efforts all seem to be aimed at pharmaceutical companies making big profits. Anything that might stop this happening appears to be a desperate problem for the authorities. Now, ask why this action is being taking so rapidly without any definitive adverse evidence for human health.

[Jack D]

Not sure if the relatives of the 1.25 million deceased, trend increasing, would agree with you on that .

[SOPS]

Feathers McGraw

I am not sure this person would agree with you


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-54793726

[Feathers McGraw]

There are always people that react badly to viral illnesses, I had something like it in 1983 after glandular fever (mononucleosis).

[Feathers McGraw]

They might not. However you might ask yourself why diagnoses of seasonal flu have fallen to near zero in many countries with a significant Covid19 toll, and why the relative severity of Covid19 in a given country is inversely proportional to the severity of the preceding year's winter flu in that country.

Excess deaths in the UK exceeded the 5 year average from April to June, but are now pretty much in line with previous year's death statistics. In addition, the average age of deaths from/with Covid19 is actually slightly higher than the average life expectancy.

1600 people die every day in the UK, from a wide variety of causes. Government has made it very easy for a doctor to put Covid19 on a death certificate here, I have personal experience of it in several cases of people who would almost certainly have died of flu had SARS-CoV-2 not come along.

I certainly don't like seeing everyone associated with the airline industry being treated so very badly on the basis of science that is actually well understood but is being ignored at very high levels of government.

[Jack D]

There are always people that react badly to viral illnesses, I had something like it in 1983 after glandular fever (mononucleosis).

I agree , after all death can be considered a fairly bad reaction when one thinks about it .

[misd-agin]

Maybe the flu is lower so far this year because masks work? Could it be that simple, or obvious?

[JMock]

for sure
and has been remarked upon by our medical fraternity here in Hong King where masks are 100%

[krismiler]

Add in a reduction in other illnesses due to increased hygiene, reduction in traffic accidents and industrial injuries due to the lockdown, and you’re pretty close to normal.

[White Knight]

But more undiagnosed cancers, heart disease, diabetes... And a greater incidence of suicides due to the mental toll of these ridiculous lockdowns! And increased 'hygiene' can lead to reduced immunity overall to other viruses. Be careful what you wish for with that one!

Masks are fine for a while, but how about looking at the environmental impact of disposing of them. This virus is here to stay and the sooner people work that out (especially those dishing out the draconian restrictions) the better.

[White Knight]

C'mon SOPS... Lots of virus strains can leave very long lasting and nasty effects! Don't fall for the long-Covid gag here:D

Just for comparison 1.4 million people died from TB in 2019... Where were the lockdowns then?

[compressor stall]

How do masks lead to undiagnosed cancers, heart disease and diabetes? Masks and lockdowns are not the same.

And if you are trying to peddle the argument that lockdowns lead to an increase in undiagnosed illnesses - what a barrowload of dried donkey's testicles. With COVID rife through a community, healthy people (or those who are not sure they are well -the undiagnosed in your argument) are going to stay far and wide from any medical clinic / hospital as it will be likely overflowing with coughing and spluttering patients and asymptomatic infected health care workers. PPE shortages, no elective surgeries to relieve the burden, I could go on.

By contrast a society with no community transmission will see people wander along to their local clinic as they always did. Rates of diagnoses will be largely the same as always. A good outcome n'est-ce pas?

And the flu argument - well, people are washing their hands and sanitising for a start, and socialising less. And staying at home if they feel feverish. Didn't happen much before, sadly. And surprise surprise there is less flu transmission. But it's not nil. And getting the flu and COVID simultaneously (they are not the same thing!) means an almost certain lengthy hospital stay at best.

Yes, there are some reports of mental illness increased. Undoubtedly some has, but interestingly some jurisdictions have data showing that there has not been an uptick in suicide rates. And even if there was, it is a hell of a lot less than the numbers killed by COVID and the numbers of those with developing mental illness may mirror those with long term illnesses from COVID, so not much of an argument to be made there.

TB? Really? Remind us how many people died from TB in the USA on average? How many has COVID killed this year? I'll save you the math, about 500 times fewer.

All that said, because of poor response and denial (people and media outlets peddling the misinformation like yours emboldening people with a sense of "me" over "us") the virus is here and in many parts of the world it is uncontrollable. It affects almost all of us and I am guessing you, given your location and presumed profession by virtue of being on this site.

Where to from the quagmire we're in, well the first step is to keep the spread from continuing to go nuts, mask up mandatory (easy in an autocratic country) and put a limit on the spread.

[fox niner]

Re: dutch mink farms

All mink farms are being shut down, this process started in june. There will be zero mink farms left in NL from march 2021. The only minks left will be those living in the wild.
Since june, the minks are tested for corona virus. Sometimes it is found in a remaining farm. Up to now, no coronavirus 2.0 has been found in those minks. Because Holland is not located in Denmark.

[krismiler]

Singapore took a very heavy hand to the problem and locked the country down in May and June. Regulations were enforced and people not complying were fined or jailed. Opening up has been a prolonged process done in stages.

However, this approach worked. The country is virtually COVID free with 1 or 2 new cases a day and a total of 60 active ones left.

The UK wasted the first lockdown by not thoroughly enforcing it and going back to normal almost straight away. Now a second one is coming up which will be even more costly and damaging to the economy.

[LTNman]

At the moment there is a light at the end of the tunnel with the prospect of a vaccine being approved soon. What we don’t need is a variant of the the original virus that needs a new vaccine. Meanwhile good old Ryanair, which is as predictable as Trump claiming fraud, urged Mr Shapps to reverse the decision and called the new restrictions bizarre and baseless

[16024]

Compressor stall wrote:
And if you are trying to peddle the argument that lockdowns lead to an increase in undiagnosed illnesses - what a barrowload of dried donkey's testicles. With COVID rife through a community, healthy people (or those who are not sure they are well -the undiagnosed in your argument) are going to stay far and wide from any medical clinic / hospital as it will be likely overflowing with coughing and spluttering patients and asymptomatic infected health care workers. PPE shortages, no elective surgeries to relieve the burden, I could go on.
I've been reading and re-reading this, and trying to work out how the subsequent argument makes the point.
I have had 2 close relatives die this year. One through disease that could have at least been treated (rather than cured) more successfully with an early diagnosis. Not to mention the isolation they went through while in hospital.
Its always awkward to use personal experience in a wider setting but this is clearly a common enough situation for the sample size to be statistically significant.

As for TB, yes the USA has done very well with keeping it under control, so let's look instead at India:
79,000 TB deaths in 2019 vs 126,000 covid deaths.
You hardly hear about it.

[Feathers McGraw]

I agree , after all death can be considered a fairly bad reaction when one thinks about it .

The stats in the UK say that, of the total number of deaths with Covid19, only just over 300 (less than 1% of the total) did not have other conditions usually referred to as comorbidities.

This virus is not often a killer on its own, it requires people to be a combination of old and already ill. Just like flu in that respect.

[Longtimer]

TB? Really? Remind us how many people died from TB in the USA on average? How many has COVID killed this year? I'll save you the math, about 500 times fewer. .
Here is the math
Deaths from TB in the US 2019 were 515
https://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/factsheets/TB-in-the-US-508.pdf
and in 2020 Deaths
238K to date from the virus.

[Raikum]

I should point out that TB is caused by bacteria and not a virus. Not comparing like with like....

[WHBM]

Add in a reduction in other illnesses due to increased hygiene, reduction in traffic accidents and industrial injuries due to the lockdown, and you’re pretty close to normal.
UK road traffic fatalities have declined notably in recent decades, they now average around 5 a day, and it's quite common now to get one or several days without any. This is a 75% reduction in how it was 50 years ago. Aviation of course has sustained an even better reduction. There's a considerable belief in the transport statistics world that the road figures also conceal a notable number of suicides. The railway also gets these, but they are excluded from the rail accident figures, not so with road traffic.

[Klimax]

Feathers McGraw

I am not sure this person would agree with you


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-54793726

Some are a tart weaker than others. Nothing new about that.

[DaveReidUK]

That's a frankly pathetic comment to make about someone suffering long-term consequences of Covid.

[old,not bold]

Down 'ere in Devon it came as a zurprize that such things as mink farms exist.

So off to Wiki, who tell me that More than 50 million mink a year are bred for their fur, mainly in China, Denmark, the Netherlands and Poland.

Mink oil is used in some medical products and cosmetics, as well as to treat, preserve and waterproof leather.

........

Denmark, the world’s largest producer of mink fur, announced on Friday (November 6, 2020) that it will cull its entire population of around 17 million minks to stop the spread of a mutated strain of the virus which has been linked to the animals and resulting in a mutated Covid-19 to 12 humans.

I'm sorry, maybe, for the farmers who will lose their livelihood. About as much as I'm sorry for people smugglers who get arrested.

Apart from that I don't think that the world will suffer much from the loss of mink fur and mink oil.

[ChickenHouse]

The whole point is if this new strain gets outside Denmark and is community spread then we could be back to day zero with a new vaccine required. Think China December 2019.

That strain has been reported about 5 month ago and it is already found in at least 6 countries ...

[Jack D]

I feel that the net effect of Covid 19 to cause sickness is often overlooked , focusing on fatality rates is vital of course. However , using the military analogy that a wounded combatant causes a greater drain on resources, fatality rates are only part of the overall picture.