How quickly it can go wrong

[206 jock]

Hope this hasn't been posted before, feel free to delete if it has.

https://fb.watch/1ANXhsUcwi/

Too many holes in the cheese lined up.

[roundwego]

Too many holes in the brain.

[gulliBell]

The cable was threaded between the cross tubes and over the right skid; I mean, that's just insane! How could you not see that, or not notice the excessive right CofG when initially picking up the load?

[helonorth]

How quickly? They seem like they planned to hurt somebody and went out of their way to accomplish it.

[pineteam]

I’m not a chopper pilot and just wondering since this helicopter obviously landed very hard. Do you guys have any G load measurement equipment like on aircraft?

[212man]

How quickly? They seem like they planned to hurt somebody and went out of their way to accomplish it.
I had a similar thought - the event was quick but to achieve that level of muppetry must have taken years of cultivation!

[212man]

I’m not a chopper pilot and just wondering since this helicopter obviously landed very hard. Do you guys have any G load measurement equipment like on aircraft?
Not on an aircraft like this, but a larger more sophisticated aircraft would have an FDR, with input from the AHRS, and it would be possible to determine the g encountered. All aircraft will have a maintenance inspection procedure for hard landings in their maintenance manuals, though.

On this topic, I have also seen video on social media (but can't locate it now) that appears to show the same aircraft doing a skids change in the hover, in a different location. The inference being they took off after this event and flew somewhere else!

[roscoe1]

I'd put good money on there being some real damage to that aircraft. At minimum some cross tube bending and possibly from the
pylon rocking, contact of the transmission spike with the shear plate indicator. I've seen the fwd main driveshaft coupling chew up the isolation mount from a landing less hard than that. Ignorance is bliss, until it isn't. Totally awesome video though. The regulatory authorities are always looking for footage like that for their safety seminars. Round up the cell phones before attempting this.

[OvertHawk]

Anyone know where this was?

BTW - I second the fact that that machine will be seriously damaged - the spike / shear plate indicator will be history. i'd not be surprised if it's a write off

[212man]

Anyone know where this was?

BTW - I second the fact that that machine will be seriously damaged - the spike / shear plate indicator will be history. i'd not be surprised if it's a write off
i saw a quote on FB that said it being filmed for a Mexican TV program.

[FH1100 Pilot]

Bell has some pretty clear instructions in their maintenance manuals about which Special Inspections are due and when. *IF* the spike did not break off...and *IF* the IDS did not contact the pan, and *IF* there was no mast bumping on the way down (I'd bet there was), and *IF* the cabin belly did not touch the ground when it hit...then the ship was *probably* flyable. I've seen a 206 that was flown in turbulence so bad with a ham-fisted pilot at the controls (not me this time!) that the spike jumped out of the well and carved a big gouge in the trans deck before re-entering the well as if nothing happened. That ship was not a "write-off" - it flew again after some repair work.

These jokers in this video...I mean, wow. Pretty inexperienced driver, I'd say. Nearly got a bunch of people killed - including himself.

[Two's in]

Hope this hasn't been posted before, feel free to delete if it has.

https://fb.watch/1ANXhsUcwi/

Too many holes in the cheese lined up.

Please spare me the cheese analogy. The only holes that lined up here were in the space where the "pilot" and "passengers" should have had some brain cells. This was a wholly negligent and culpable enterprise and the only salvation is nobody seems to have died on this occasion. That genius needs to have his license yanked, assuming he even has one.

[gulliBell]

The helicopter hit the ground with very little lateral movement, could that still result in spike knock? I've only seen spike knock when there is forward speed at ground contact when the skids come to a sudden stop causing the transmission to rock forward. Not-withstanding, vertical speed at ground contact probably bent the cross tubes and deformed the tub, where the tail boom connects to the main body would also be worth a close look, I bet the skins on the tail boom weren't very round any more. I'd be surprised if it was flyable after the pilot eventually woke up. Assuming the big bump when he arrived at the bottom woke him up. He sure wasn't very awake before that. Sad to see needless damage caused to a nice helicopter.

[donner89]

I had a similar thought - the event was quick but to achieve that level of muppetry must have taken years of cultivation!

Levels of Muppetry is a scale I use frequently. This particular incident ranks at the upper end of the scale :}

[jimjim1]

Lowest point on frame by frame view. About 4 frames after contact.Video says it is 30 frames per second, but who knows what might have happened to it so I doubt that can be trusted.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1622x928/avoid_lifts_by_helicopter_lowest_c8ee46644546dc3731c2eb39bd5 64958eb83f3bb.png

[Ascend Charlie]

Looks like he hit the wire cutter at the front and later the stinger at the back, before settling on some (somewhat wider) skids. Tailboom would have had a downward flex first then an upward one as well.

[megan]

The 206 with a hoist was limited to 300 lbs, but of course what you could lift in practice, besides all other considerations such as AUW, was subject to lateral CoG for which there was a graph to consult.

[Ascend Charlie]

Yeah, but the hoist raised the load inside the skids, next to the bathtub. Not much moment.

This dude had them on the hook, and managed to loop the wire over the toe of the skid, so with the wire so much further out, the moment was a real surprise to him.

[[email protected]]

Good point AC and as they swung on the wire, the lateral C of G would be moving a long way out of limits - would be interesting to see a cockpit video, I bet he was simulating a 'full and free' control check with the amount of cyclic variations due to that swinging load.

[206 jock]

I bet the torquemeter needle is a bit bent and the internals of the mrgb could do with an inspection, given the amount of pitch he is pulling on the way down.

[BirdmanBerry]

I'm sure this is from many years ago, not recent. I recall seeing it previously.

[josephfeatherweight]

I'd put good money on there being some real damage to that aircraft.
I'd put even more money on there being some real damage done to the poor dudes swinging around on the line!

[Nubian]

I'm sure this is from many years ago, not recent. I recall seeing it previously.

From Mexican media, it happened July 16, 2019 during filming for "El Señor de los Cielos". The article also has a video of what is said to be the same 206 getting it's landing gear removed when in a hover.

https://lopezdoriga.com/entretenimiento/video-cae-helicoptero-durante-grabacion-de-el-senor-de-los-cielos-hay-dos-heridos/

Google translate:

"During a recording, a helicopter from which two actors were suspended crashed to the ground, causing one of them to go into a coma and the other to suffer fractures in both legs.
The incident occurred on July 16, during the filming of a chapter of the series "The Lord of the Skies", however, it was until this week that the images of the incident were released.
The injured are two members of the stunt cast, in charge of doing the stunts. The main cast, led by Rafael Amaya, who plays Aurelio Casillas, was not present.
Telemundo and Argos Comunicación, owned by Epigmenio Ibarra, producers of the series that is filming its seventh season, have not commented on this incident.
Later, the helicopter moved to Mexico City where it put the lives of five people at risk by performing a maneuver to change the landing pad.

Eye,
@SCT_mx
, this helicopter flew throughout the CDMX even after having suffered a forced landing at EDOMEX. Not only that, its pilot and administrator José Luis García put at least five people at risk by doing this maneuver to change the landing pad.

This dude had them on the hook, and managed to loop the wire over the toe of the skid, so with the wire so much further out, the moment was a real surprise to him.

No cargo-hook on this helicopter. Rope was secured somewhere inside the cabin, and hung over the skids. there is a longer video where you can see the person in the cabin is throwing down the rope to the guys on the ground.

Reminds me a bit of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbVx23q4Qec

[roscoe1]

I know the skid gear removal shown was not the first, or second time this has been done and in theory if the pilot is smooth and willing to take the risk it is not complicated. But I think that in the grand scheme of things it is almost as dumb as why they had to change the skid gear in the first place. I will admit, that it is a pain in the butt to pull 206 series landing gear if you have to use jacks, but had they ever heard of a boom truck?

Back a few years, when working EMS, a company I will not name ( initials CJS) advised their bases to round up some matresses and hay bales in case there was a landing gear problem that might result in a tough situation during landing. Everybody said " no, we aren't going to do that, thanks for the suggestion". That concept vanished. Best to watch that from a distance if youre lucky enough to not be the one flying.

[212man]

I think the point about the skids change is not whether it’s a sound practice, it’s the fact that the aircraft was in a totally unknown airworthiness condition!

[Bell_ringer]

I think the point about the skids change is not whether it’s a sound practice, it’s the fact that the aircraft was in a totally unknown airworthiness condition!

aircraft in an unknown condition of airworthiness are shutdown, they aren’t flown somewhere else for new skids, the airworthiness of which is easily inspected visually.

If you need new skids, there’s a whole lot more that also needs doing.

[[email protected]]

roscoe1 - aircraft with retractable gear need that sort of mattress arrangement or a pit (in the case of the RAF Pumas) in case you need to land when the gear won't come down so I understand the thinking behind it.

[ericferret]

I know the skid gear removal shown was not the first, or second time this has been done and in theory if the pilot is smooth and willing to take the risk it is not complicated. But I think that in the grand scheme of things it is almost as dumb as why they had to change the skid gear in the first place. I will admit, that it is a pain in the butt to pull 206 series landing gear if you have to use jacks, but had they ever heard of a boom truck?

Back a few years, when working EMS, a company I will not name ( initials CJS) advised their bases to round up some matresses and hay bales in case there was a landing gear problem that might result in a tough situation during landing. Everybody said " no, we aren't going to do that, thanks for the suggestion". That concept vanished. Best to watch that from a distance if youre lucky enough to not be the one flying.

A number of years back a 206 had a set of skids changed in the hover at Blackpool in England.. The aircraft a crop sprayer hit the crop/ground leaving the gear a tangled mess under the aircraft. I think at least one refuel was involved.
Aircraft landed successfully.

[megan]

I think the point about the skids change is not whether it’s a sound practice, it’s the fact that the aircraft was in a totally unknown airworthiness conditionIf it's still flying OK it's still a reasonable thing to do, fit new skids. Landing sans skids how might that turn out, besides incurring additional damage to the belly, what if it rolls on its side. One of our Hueys in Vietnam had a hover skid change, someone in a thread here had pics of a 212, I think in Alaska, doing the same. Once did the same as crab mentions, 76 nose gear wouldn't extend, landed with the nose on a pile of sand bags. Problem was the oleo did not extend on take off and the scissor link jammed up against, and bent, the hydraulic jack.

[212man]

If it's still flying OK it's still a reasonable thing to do, fit new skids. Landing sans skids how might that turn out, besides incurring additional damage to the belly, what if it rolls on its side. One of our Hueys in Vietnam had a hover skid change, someone in a thread here had pics of a 212, I think in Alaska, doing the same. Once did the same as crab mentions, 76 nose gear wouldn't extend, landed with the nose on a pile of sand bags. Problem was the oleo did not extend on take off and the scissor link jammed up against, and bent, the hydraulic jack.
But it had already landed - heavily. Shut down and asses, not fly and change the skids.

[roscoe1]

Chacun à son goût. You wouldn't catch me under a hovering helicopter fiddling with tools, other people and a puckered pilot. Great for anyone who saves further damage and expense if it works. What could possibly go wrong. No problem if you have a dedicated landing pit or some other sort of set up that remains in place. Back in the day CJ expected people to grab the matresses and run out to set it up as it would have been unsightly to leave them about at a public airport. Oh yeah, what was the title of this thread, something about how quickly something can go wrong.....?

[Fareastdriver]

Undercarriage leg changes on the Wessex in the hover seemed to be an everyday occurrence

[megan]

Undercarriage leg changes on the Wessex in the hover seemed to be an everyday occurrenceWhy so FED? Never heard of it being an issue with our Wessii or H-34.

212, Sorry, I meant as a general principle and not this accident specifically.

[OvertHawk]

Undercarriage leg changes on the Wessex in the hover seemed to be an everyday occurrence

I can see it being a workable solution if you're out in the field and have a leaky oleo or similar on an otherwise entirely serviceable helicopter without the lifting kit to do the job in the standard manner.

What's simply bonkers is to take a machine that has just been involved in a seriously hard landing (sufficient to have damaged the landing gear so badly it needs to be changed), which is safely on the ground already, take off again, fly to another location and then hover over the heads of your engineers while they swap the skids out.

If anyone seriously thinks that's ok then please don't ever come within 100yds of my helicopter with a spanner or a pair of flying gloves!