IPEC Aviation C-47/DC-3

[Stationair8]

Any Pprunes know how many DC-3/ C-47’s IPEC Aviation operated, and what routes did they use them on?

[Turnleft080]

IPEC was formed in 1976 to operate the bass strait freight service linking Essendon Airport with Launceston.
The Interstate Parcel Express Company did most of their flying to Tassie. They acquired Fleet Air Services of Tasmania in 1977
they had a DC-3 VH-EWE and they painted it in the yellow top colour scheme. In 76 they already had 3 Argosys VH-BBA, IPA, IPB.
Then the DC-9s followed VH-IPF, IPC.
I remember in 76 Essendon had quite a variety of DC-3 operators. IPEC, BBA, Set Air, Forrestair, Paradac, Masling.
BBA Brain & Brown was the oldest airline started in 1949-1979.
That as much I can throw towards your question.

[john_tullamarine]

That takes us back aways to the days of Phil, Terry, et al. Wonderful times.

[Kagamuga]

Is Barry Bell still around these days. I think he was a prime mover behind the Antique movement?

[Lookleft]

I managed to hitch a ride on a night freight run to Tulla in the early 80's and was allowed to see the flight deck of the Argosy that was on the ramp. What an experience! Certainly helped motivate me to keep spending the dollars to keep flying.

[megan]

How long did Alan Frank spend with Ipec on the Argosy, guess he is long past now. First knew him in his Associated Airlines days when flying the Heron.

[Sunfish]

Thank god I passed on that one.

[C441]

In the early 80s we used to operate through Adelaide about the same time in the evening as the IPEC Argosy departed. I don't think I've ever heard a more efficient converter of kerosene into noise!

[blow.n.gasket]

The Argosy = 4 dog whistles that created constant noise with variable fuel flow !

[Ascend Charlie]

Wasn't it known as the ArgoSlug?

[Chris2303]

Whistling Wheelbarrow

[hoss58]

A couple of memories.

Many years ago as a F.S.O working the airspace between YMML and YPAD in the summer months, in the late afternoon/early evening ATC would call on the hotline intercom "details without notice IPA" etc as the Argosys weren't able to climb into CTA or remain there when the temps got quite high.

Had many beers with Jack Mcdonald at the cockpit bar at Essendon airport. One evening a group of us were having a couple of cleansing ales when Jack walked in after a training session during his DC9 conversion. "'The book says on RWY 26 i can get to just before V1, abort and not run of the end of the runway onto the Tulla freeway. F...ing bull****" or words to that effect.

Saw Jack flying at the Caboolture airshow in a Bristol bi plane ( i think.) a couple of years ago. I think the announcer said Jack was 88 at the time.

Cheers Hoss.

[john_tullamarine]

Another tale relating to Jack's DC9 endorsement ... he was having a problem here and there (apparently the TAA box was somewhere between dreadful and atrocious - I never had a drive of it so I can only relate second hand tales). Then came the standby power/instruments work .. Jack came into IPEC after that session with a grin from ear to ear ... "Mate, it flies just like a real aeroplane". Thereafter, it was plain sailing for good chap.

[TBM-Legend]

A couple of memories.

Many years ago as a F.S.O working the airspace between YMML and YPAD in the summer months, in the late afternoon/early evening ATC would call on the hotline intercom "details without notice IPA" etc as the Argosys weren't able to climb into CTA or remain there when the temps got quite high.

Had many beers with Jack Mcdonald at the cockpit bar at Essendon airport. One evening a group of us were having a couple of cleansing ales when Jack walked in after a training session during his DC9 conversion. "'The book says on RWY 26 i can get to just before V1, abort and not run of the end of the runway onto the Tulla freeway. F...ing bull****" or words to that effect.

Saw Jack flying at the Caboolture airshow in a Bristol bi plane ( i think.) a couple of years ago. I think the announcer said Jack was 88 at the time.

Cheers Hoss.


Jack turned 90 this year and has had a hip replacement carried out. He's still in fine form although a bit challenged by the results of the op.

[Stationair8]

The Argosy only climbed due to the curvature of the earth.

[john_tullamarine]

The Argosy only climbed due to the curvature of the earth.

Well, yes, and no. We routinely had it operating first segment limited due to its absolutely woeful performance while the gear took forever to tuck itself away ... and one didn't need to worry about whether it did or didn't have a first segment .. it always had a significant first segment ..

The other segments weren't too bad.

[VC9]

The Argosy first segment was a bit of an issue taking off from runway 34 at YMML. However it provoked my interest in performance that thanks to John Tullamarine has been very beneficial to my career in aviation.

[john_tullamarine]

It was a bit parochial to some extent, I guess, but operational management took the view that IPEC would keep the AFM first segment not worse than the runway slope for the old Queen of the Skies. The idea was that this approach would maintain a level of risk similar to that pertaining for a level runway. On occasion, that resulted in a dollar penalty but corporate risk assessment accepted that as being appropriate. MEL34, being a regular runway, was one of the concerns we had which led to the operational management decision.

The Argosy was a bit unusual in that the first segment went on and on for a bit and the concern was that there was no need to risk an encounter of the close kind in the event of an early failure and, say, a bit of turbulence to make things untidy (turbulence being a close cousin to MEL34) .... I'd need to pull out an AFM from the bottom drawer of the dungeon to check but, as I recall, the first segment generally approximated something in the order of half a mile. We did a number of things which were a little more conservative than what might have been adopted by other operators.

Good to see you are still in the game, Dick. Trust life is treating you well as we all get older and older ....

[Scooter Rassmussin]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/273x185/image_a3fcc7564c998ff5a14a686896c87dcfffece219.png
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x503/image_6663c5bb91709bcaea54f4c0af0154d4da66a6e8.png
Those were the Days .

[Scooter Rassmussin]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x714/image_e6d96422bd20bbaa8ebaa3ae3d8b43fae95cddbe.png

[john_tullamarine]

.. add a -3 at the far end and the second -9 in the foreground and the whole family would be there to see. Too much of this stuff and we'll end up with tears in the eyes.

[longlegs]

Let the tears roll

VH-IPA AW-650-222 Argosy (http://www.aussieairliners.org/argosy/vh-ipa/vhipa.html)
VH-IPB AW-650-222 Argosy (http://www.aussieairliners.org/argosy/vh-ipb/vhipb.html)
VH-BBA AW-650 Argosy (http://www.aussieairliners.org/argosy/vh-bba/vhbba.html)

[john_tullamarine]

I well recall the day they were destroyed. IPEC picked up a pittance for the scrap value and, again, aviation history is lost to the future.

[Fris B. Fairing]

I well recall the day they were destroyed. IPEC picked up a pittance for the scrap value and, again, aviation history is lost to the future.
Ironically IPEC and the proposed National Air and Space Museum of Australia had a common board member at the time. It's not much wonder that NASMA never got off the ground.

[Turnleft080]

VH-EWE looking spick & span almost presidential with its polished silver.https://www.airhistory.net/photos/0275354.jpg

[B772]

If my memory serves me correct IPEC almost lost a Argosy at Smithton on one occasion.

[Centaurus]

I remember doing a trip in March 1977 from Essendon with Bill Brown of Brain and Brown fame. It was an IPEC freighter DC3 to Devonport and Launceston and back to Essendon in VH-EWE. At the time I was in Air Nauru but on days off in Melboune I would do some GA flying. Bill was short of a copilot for that trip so I offered to help him out.

At Essendon, Bill told me to wait for him in the cockpit while he did a walk around. Then with all doors closed Bill started the starboard engine. When that was running he went to start the port engine. As that engine fired, there was a loud metallic bang from that side. Bill looked at me in astonishment and said WTF was that? I said I didn't know but it sounded serious so I cut both mixture controls while Bill was still faffing around wondering what to do.

It turned out the safety belt buckle attached to the fold down dickey seat next to the front cargo door immediately at the back of the captains seat, had somehow been missed by Bill on his walk around. The belt and buckle was dangling outside the aircraft and had been caught by the port prop during start up. There was a short delay while Bill used a file to smooth out the chipped prop tip then off we went. I thought there would be some vibration from the chipped prop tip but it ran smoothly. The weather was crook at Devonport and Bill missed out twice on low level circuits trying to land. - We got in on the third low level circuit.

Eventually we got back to Essendon where the weather was fine apart from a gusty NW wind and a 15 knot crosswind. Bill gave me the landing from the RH seat. . Everything went OK including the crosswind touch-down on Runway 35. As expected, the DC3 tried to weathercock into wind after touchdown. I went to apply corrective rudder only to find the rudder pedals appeared to have jammed solid in the central position. I jabbed the right hand brake to stop the weathercockping and this caused the landing gear horn to sound as the microswitch momentarily actuated.

I kept jabbing the right hand brake to prevent the aircraft from going off the runway and glanced down at the rudder pedals to see what was jamming them central. That was when I saw that the autopilot on/off handle situated in the DC3 near the copilots left leg was in the On position. That explained the jammed pedals. As we came to a stop still on the runway I asked Bill had he engaged the autopilot? . Bill said he had as he thought it would help when taxiing to stop the rudder banging fully to one side in the wind.

The only problem of course was not only he omitted to tell me what he intended to do, but he engaged the autopilot as I was trying to keep straight on the centreline in a 15 knot crosswind. The autopilot locked the ailerons, elevators and rudders in the neutral position in the DC3 and was impossible to overpower. Bill was a real old fashioned gentleman and much older than me. I thought it would be boorish to castigate him for a very stupid action so I zipped my lip..

[deja vu]

Anyone know what became of Bob Lane from Setair in that era.

[john_tullamarine]

If my memory serves me correct IPEC almost lost a Argosy at Smithton on one occasion.

I'd have to dig really hard in the archives but I don't recall ever running any charts for Smithton, nor can I recall any one-off occasion that the bird ever went there. Perhaps one of the pilot folk who might be better in the memory know may recall more detail ?

Anyone know what became of Bob Lane from Setair in that era.

We have a couple of Setair pilots in the PPRuNe ranks so an answer may come in due course.

[blueys]

not a setair pilot ,did a couple of sectors with Bob 3/11/1991 ML AD SY we were to do another SY AD SY return but lost the green hydraulic system on taxi at SY
the 280 pax were going to AD for GP very pissed off.however the GP was cancelled from memory due to wx the a/c was VH YMA A300-600 . the hydraulic system was fixed overnight , Bob and did SY ML on the 4th

[Stationair8]

Brain and Brown operated their Argosy VH-BBA into Smithton around 1975/6, to fly Duck River Butter products up to Melbourne.
Would have been a nice long turnaround loading boxes by hand.

[john_tullamarine]

Ah, that predated IPEC Aviation's operation by a couple of years and before my time with the fleet.

[Stationair8]

When IPEC transitioned into the DC-9, did TAA provide the simulator, initial endorsements along with check and training?

[john_tullamarine]

Yes, with the IPEC C/T coming on line in due course

[pithblot]

If my memory serves me correct IPEC almost lost a Argosy at Smithton on one occasion.


In Smithton, 1981, there was talk on the airport (Bill Vincent, Frank Jaeger, Jack Harrex & others) about an incident involving an Argosy some years previously.

I don’t remember the company involved. The story is of a bad weather, scud-running Argosy doing a “Duck River” approach towards the North/South taxyway, followed by a very low level circle to land on the runway. The Co-Pilot was not happy and reported the event which lead to the Captain being sacked.

Interestingly, the focus of the tale was not about Airmanship but the temerity of the Co-Pilot in reporting the incident.

Thats the story I heard. I don’t know if it’s true. This is a rumor network.

pithblot

[megan]

I don’t remember the company involvedMight it be the airline F-27 incident at one of the northern Tasmania ports, memory says Smithton or Devonport, the co-pilot was the son of some one high in the airlines organisation, Ansett/TAA forget which. Not saying there wasn't an Argosy event as well, never heard of it in the couple of years working the state.

[By George]

27th of October 1973 F27 VH-TFM Flight 1497. Capt M Denheld lost his command by going down to 100 feet trying to get into WY. F/O BJ Widmer, understandably, not happy and filed a report. I believe Captain Denheld subsequently lived on a boat at Southport. Felt sorry for him but it was a poor decision. Something you just can not do.

[Stationair8]

How did Brain and Brown get around the two airline policy and get permission to import the Argosy?

Likewise how did IPEC manage to import the DC-9?