Paying for the privilege

[Ivan Urge]

I find it disgusting that one has to now PAY to apply for an airline job. Want a job with Virgin Blue? or Jetconnect? Get your credit card out. It will cost you 20 bucks to just hit that submit button. Want a job with Qantas? Look forward to parting with several hundred dollars just so one can be asked the cosmic radiation dose at FL390 or the effect annhedral has on an area ruled fuselage.

I am not that old but I am old fashioned if thats the word. Soon pilots will be paying for their line training and their check-to-line flight. They already pay for their entire assesment at QF and their type rating at DJ. Being cashed up does not guarantee a job at the end of it, either. Is there any other industry in the world that does this? I think not.

Are we all just prostituting ourselves?:mad:

[TurboOtter]

Are you serious, you have to pay for a job interview??? what do they charge out of interest??
Why is it that everyone thinks pilots are made of money and that we are more than willing to fork over hard earned cash for something that should be free.

So what is next you have to pay a fee to recieve your first pay check??:eek:

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Regretably, this part of the planet is playing catch-up with the rest of the world.

I recently had a similar conversation with a friend in the USA. Paying to register CV's, interviews, endorsements and even paying for twin time (paying to fly freight) has been around for some time in the US.

Why do you think there are private companies in the USA that have their own 737 SIM (and other types) running H24 - scores of young hopefuls from all over the world flock there to pay for their own endorsements.

BTW; More than a few young Aussies are in the USA right now paying for twin time.

IVAN URGE; Believe it or not, there are a number of Truck Driving Schools in the USA that charge a sum for training and then charge to find a Job!. Charging to register CVs also exists in the Medical Profession as well.

In a perfect world, all pilots would stop prostituting themselves and all companies from QF down would stop what they're doing.

TurboOtter; There is no shortage of pilots who are willing to hand over their last dollar for a shot at a job. As long as your fellow pilot is willing to pay up, work for free, pay to work etc this will happen. Yes it Sucks!

[JULIET WHISKEY]

Ivan ,have to agree with you on this one.
I'm on hold with the Q since March and would have to say that I do not know of any other industry that interviews then holds candidates in limbo till they sort out when they want me.......
If the Q knew of my prep for the interview they would surely take a pause and see a committed applicant .

What I'm now doing is getting a business happening in aviation and working finance on the side. Both are "be my own boss" type of situations . Basically I have always loved money and flying .
Works out a great combo for me now.

In answer to prostituting oneself ? yeah I think alot of guys are.
I'm now very releived that I now do not have that "have to get into Qantas attitude". I worked out that I am worth far more than what the airlines are willing to pay. My earning potential now has no limits ,I'm not capped as to how far I can go . In a way I prefer this way because I don't have anyone telling me what they think I'm worth.

A certain number of pilots will always set precedence and drop the value of the pilot's worth . Trick I found is not to get bitter but to set sights at another avenue , fortunately my goals are now higher than Qantas and are readily acheivable .
It is annoying and my response to it all was "phukkem" too small a world and too short a time to worry about chasing a couple of airlines .
The last year has been enough for me to think how dangerous it is being an airline pilot with regard to your pilot skills not qualifing you for anything else........

Anyhow , stay focussed and just write the costs off in tax!!!!!

All the best.

[Ivan Urge]

JW. Not in the slightest bit interested in QF. Got way too much experience for them-they would consider me a threat. The point is that it is appalling that any pilots have to PAY to be considered for a position with an airline. It is already expensive enough to just get a licence. Once pilots start paying for assessments, checks and endorsements it will not stop there. Perhaps there will be a tender system soon;

27 S/O positions available at QF to the highest bidders. Submit bids in a sealed envelope to........ :cool:

[bitter balance]

Ivan Urge, aviation is certainly not the only industry where you have to pay for your application/testing. A lot of industries in Oz recruit only through employment agencies and to be on the books you have to pay etc Also, in many cases you have to do (pay for) testing for ranking purposes etc

Nor is aviation the only industry where the initial training is expensive, or where you have to pay for additional training to further your career. Everyone in the major professions in Oz (law and medicine) confront the same scenario.

[TIMMEEEE]

Ivan Urge

Cosmic Radiation dose at FL390????
Sounds a bit like codswallop to me.

As for QF charging $165 for stage one testing (and $40 for a security clearance and about $150 for a CASA opthamologic check) then thats chump change compared to paying $20,000 + for an endorsement.

I too find it insulting that people have to pay for an endorsement but as they say there are plenty of punters out there spending their parents trust funds and at the end of the day the training organisations are businesses.

The prostitution of pilots is sad Ivan but then again isn't it the worlds oldest profession????

Good luck in your job search.

[Ivan Urge]

Timee thanks for the good luck wishes. Actually I am very gainfully employed earning a lot more than the likes of QF could pay me and just turned down an offer of an IP on a BBJ on the phone last night!!!!:)

[Dexter]

So whats your point then Ivan? You say your not that old, youve gotta lot of experience, get paid more then Qantus pilots and have a lot more experience than them, and have just turned down a job on the BBJ.
Sounds like you started a thread just to let us all know what that you think your better than most. But obviously theirs a screw missing somewhere!

[Whiskery]

IVAN maaaate! You are either having a lend of us on this forum or, as Dexter suggests, there's a screw missing somewhere.

For a bloke


gainfully employed earning a lot more than the likes of QF

$20 is only 2 packets of cigarettes and several hundred dollars I can spend after a great day at the races.
Come on Ivan, what's the deal? Get knocked back at the latest round of interviews with QF or just having a bit of fun with the troops?

[Ivan Urge]

Dunce-ster. What is my point? What part of the written word do you not understand? Read the topic and the very first line in my first post. It can not be much clearer than that. But then again with a spelling and grammar age of 8, it is no wonder you find the point elusive.

All but one reply agree that it is a sad indictment that pilots have to pay for assessments, applications and endorsements. I guess you think it is OK. Who has the screw loose?

Whiskery; Oh dear, we are a sad lot here on Proon sometimes. Why is it that every time someone posts something remotely critical of QF that they are immediately guilty of being "knocked back"?

Off to get my bolts readjusted.:p

[hmm...]

Why is it that every time someone posts something remotely critical of QF that they are immediately guilty of being "knocked back"?

Not sure but I must admit people get very touchy when QF is ever mentioned (good or bad)!

Guys they are not the world's greatest airline!

The pay is s#it and their safety record..... well please let's not get started on that "impressive" no crash record! :rolleyes:

QF is not god's gift to Australian aviation! :p

Ivan Urge wait up, need my bolts re-adjusted too! :D :D :D

[Capt Claret]

J W

I don't think Qantas need pause to see that you're a committed applicant. They have committed applicants coming out of their wazoo. And therein lies the problem.

The supply of suitable applicants far exceeds their need, hence they make the culling process easier by charging for this, that and the other also. As they hold the box seat as the employer, they don't need to consider the niceties of timely advice to applicants, knowing full well, that most people will jump to them if offered a position.

I don't neccessarily agree with this, but can see why it happens. One day there will be a dearth of suitable drivers in Australia and the fees will go, advice will be timely, and the pendulum will have swung in our favour.

The easiest way is to be an old codger with no HSC or degree, then QF won't even look. :D

[hmm...]

Damn!

Tried to stir the pot and it failed! :D :D :D

Maybe next time.....;)

[sprucegoose]

I can't wait to be an old codger, I can't stand the suspense.

[E.P.]

IVAN

My understanding was that Ryanair did not pay all that flash!

[Dexter]

Woo hoo, have we got a live one here.
Young IU with more experience and money then a Qantus Captian, and who has just knocked back a instructor postion on the BBJ has started a post asking why he should hafta fork out 200 bucks for an interview.
Oh yea IU, I see you know pricisely the exact number of positions available. 27.
Might just be youre aggro attitude knocked you out of the QF selection proces, so know your crying foul. Or could it be that your a wannabe. Knocked back a IP position on a BBJ, hahaha.
Better stay in your present job then huh. Whats that? Chief check and trainer on the Concorde?

[Ivan Urge]

Dick-ster, I see you truly do have problems with the English language. When one talks of 'one', one does not talk of oneself, so I fail to see how you come to the assumption as to why I 'should hafta fork out 200 bucks for an interview'

It is obvious that you do not work for QF; they require at least a 50% mark for high school English.

It may come as a surprise to you and your C152 flying buddies that QF is not the best airline to work for, nor does it pay the best; in fact far from it. If QF could pay me AUD340K then I would eat my hat cos thats what I get. Eat your heart out. I turned down the BBJ job because they could only just equal that, not better it.

My point remains that it stinks that anyone should have to pay to lodge an application or pay for an assesment. Where would it end.

Good luck with your HSC exams, I'm off to see my fund managers.

[Dexter]

Perhaps YOU o greatest of all avators IU(D), might like to tell US how much YOU had to pay to get that 340k job an does it include gluves to keep you from stroking youself in public?
On that kinda money next thing youll be telling us that your Geoff Dixon or Bransom.
The subject is good but I think IU(D) might be a shilling short of a pound. Every post of his(?) just gets more an more better.

[Ivan Urge]

Delerious-ter, go to sleep.

You are far more interesting that way.

[desertsager]

Now I am really confused:confused: ....who is the enemy again.

[tightcannon]

Spruce baby I saw the back of your head the other day, guess what???? I saw Grey hair. hahahahahahahahah??????? you old codger you. Hey whats the goss on the airbus, anything said yesterday.

[tightcannon]

Spruce baby I saw the back of your head the other day, guess what???? I saw Grey hair. hahahahahahahahah??????? you old codger you. Hey whats the goss on the airbus, anything said yesterday.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Sprucey you were born old:D:p ;)

Chuck.

[otaio]

A few years ago I was doing a rating exam in Auckland. Along with 6 or so engineers, doing different exams, were 30 or 40 baby pilots all doing the same paying to do a CPL

I talked to a couple of them afterwards, and the frightening thing was they all seemed to think that Qantas, ANZ et al. Were going to beat a path to there door as soon as they had enough hours, and to get those ours they were prepared to do anything. Hence all the people flying for nothing or close to it.

The trouble with flying is that is "glamourous" to all those who havn't been in the industry for a year or so, then when you have spent 40K getting somewhere you tend to be stuck.

No wonder airlines can stuff the youngsters around when it comes to getting a job.

Lots of pilots in NZ and Aussie but how many CPs do Qantas, Air NZ and Virgin have? 1 each I think.

[Dexter]

Answer my qestion Ivy "How much did YOU pay to get your $340k job"?
You seam to like telling all of us how grate you ARE an knocking them who are williing to pay $200 for a Qantus interview but I bet YOU paiad to get that grate job your in now.
If your employed direct you probly paid a bond for x years. If you are employed thru an agency then they take a cut off your salery evry month.
Either way you pay.
Which one are you Ivy?

[PPRuNe SPELL POLICE]

Ivy "How ... = Ivy, "How ...

qestion = question

job"? = job?"

seam = seem

grate = great

an = and

Qantus = Qantas

paiad = paid

probly = probably

thru = through

salery = salary

evry = every

[Dexter]

Is that so, PPRuNe SPELL(ing) POLICE?
don't judge a book buy it's cuver!

Let Ivy anser the queston.

[Rich-Fine-Green]

Attn: Cadet PPrune Spell Police (reg. 25th August 2002).

Surely there are other forums where you can act like a w@nker.

Try the Big Brother forum. I bet there are enough spelling mistakes there to keep you hard for a month.

Cut the cr@p and go back to your old user name.

[Towering Q]

Now now girls and boys....settle down.:rolleyes:

Spruce...."old codger"?? Hope you're not talking about us 30 somethings??

[Dexter]

Seams that the one that opened the subjec cant finished it buy ansering how much he or she has to pay for the privlige of having his or her grate job hey.
Hears my qestion agian Ivy,
If your employed direct you probly paid a bond for x years. If you are employed thru an agency then they take a cut off your salery evry month.
How much did you pay Ivy or how much are you still paying now?
I reackon Ivy has woulden now a BBJ if he got sucked into one hahaha.

[Capt Vegemite]

OMG....wheres the spelling police?

[Pinky the pilot]

Cap'n Veg; never mind the spelling police. 'Tween thee and me... I think I detect a bit of a wind up!
How's the search going? Thought I'd found one recently,
but it was only a bad cork!:D

[Ivan Urge]

Vegie et al. I agree.

He obviously is smoking some serious stuff.:eek:

[BAE146]

Ivan - why would you want to take a pay cut to work in a dump like Riyadh?

I am looking for information on expat life in Riyadh. Housing, recreation, shopping, cost of living, schooling, etc, etc, and the all important question; is it worth taking your family there for three years?
from the Middle East forum. Living in Riyadh.

The Royal Flight guys don't get anywhere near $340K pa and I don't know of any other flying jobs in the region that would pay half that amount.

[Exotic-Temptress]

Is there going to be an after school punch up behind the canteen?? or a water bomb fight during recess??

I can't seem to stop myself from laughing! I feel like i'm in a school playground with a bunch of kids spurring each other on.

Dexter.....seriously speaking, and i do appologise if my following comment is to upset you in anyway, but man, your english teacher did a baaaad, bad job. If i were your mother, i will be sueing the school.

And in regards to SpruceGoose, whether or not he has grey hair, is irrelevant. Despite that, i find grey hair to be sexy, a sign of wisdom. He is very much a gentleman, who announces the best PA's during flight...a Captain very much respected by all Cabin Crew.

[Pinky the pilot]

Exotic-Temptress; Thank you for the observation re grey hair. Today is my 48th birthday (thanks for the message Gaunty) and looking at my grey hairs in the mirror this morning.....well I don't feel bad at all now!!:D :D :D :D

[Ivan Urge]

BAE146, since you asked, I didn't take the job there. It was not worth moving the family for what they were paying; which incidently is what I get now. Riyadh may be a dump in some peoples opinion, but I wanted to hear from people who actually live and work there. Surprisingly the replies I received were generally favourable. The bottom line is there had to be a monetary incentive for me to move there and there wasn't.:)

[otaio]

Work in KSA for 6 years, it is indeed a dump, but it does pay well so if you need money, you'll do anything.

Fortunately i don't need money and would not go back to KSA if King Fahd went down on bended knee.

[DIVINE WIND]

Jesus people,
from paying for a job to doing spell checks.The good thing thing about mustering is being isolated from all this cr@p.
You got a point though Ivan,but I tell if a few hundred smackaroos could lead off the hard I have taken then,yes I'll pay it. however if i had a spare 20,30 or 40K then I think i would call my broker.

By the way you jet jockeys,what is the night life like in bangkok now.Been ten years plus for me.

SIT BACK,RELAX AND ENJOY THE FLIGHT:cool: :cool: :cool:

[TIMMEEEE]

Divine Wind - (not of the flatulant type I trust).

The girls in Bangok are still doing their things and performing as they did some 10 years ago in Pat-Pong Rd as well as everywhere else..
The Queen's Castle is still my favourite although there are plenty of such venues.

The plus is that if the girls haven't died yet from the big A (apparently some 80% are HIV+) they'll still remember your name!

[DIVINE WIND]

Queens castle!!!! good to hear it is still around.used to go there alot.:D :
there is a bar in the next street called daimond royale or something like that. owned by an ex air america chopper pilot,Izzy Freedman,check it out:cool:

[yowie]

Cant tell if you are an old codger Claret,you got no grey hair left!
I thought it was Captain Baldy now!!!!!