COS18 Poll: Sign or be Terminated

[Shoebox]

COS18 Poll (https://linkto.run/p/5MALG7P5)

Since the US Elections are days away it gave me the idea to share this poll. I may or may not have made it myself.

[mngmt mole]

Have to agree with STW on this one. The long storied history of CX as the per-eminent place to be for a career as a pilot is officially over in just a few hours. By signing, you are effectively "volunteering" to accept the new COS. There will be no going back from that point, and any value in the career will be gone for good. A very sad day indeed.

ok, just saw STW deleted his post, which said regarding the poll..."why bother, everyone will sign". Hence my comments.

[Will IB Fayed]

Pointless. What people say and do on a anonymous forum (and poll) is completely irrelevant. Today is indeed a very sad day. The final push to rid HKG of gweilos.

[SloppyJoe]

I think that is going to be Cathays problem, HKG, well CX, will be rid of gweilos. Give it two years and they will be upping the COS to try to retain pilots, problem will be everyone will remember, and no one will accept the mediocre increase they propose as they know they can't trust any of it. CX is going to be just another lion air, air asia, airline overrun, pulling CBs and turning off flight computers Asian airline. I have mixed feelings, I want them to reap what they have sown, but I feel bad for those who will suffer because of it.

FYI, saying it will be CXs problem being rid of gweilos is not about race, there are many, many HKG guys I have flown with who are far superior to some of the expats, they are in the same **** situation but will probably stay as it is their home. Fast recruitment, fast promotion, inexperience being forced into roles they are not ready for, it would be the same the world over. This will come back to haunt CX.

[The100thmeridian]

Why get terminated when you can resign?

[veritas777]

CX is going to be just another lion air, air asia, airline overrun, pulling CBs and turning off flight computers Asian airline.

Gotta love expats who think their superiority over the locals is the only thing stopping those idiot Asian airline people from killing themselves.

Why, pilot error has never existed in western airlines, of course :rolleyes:

[icemankk2001]

what is so great about this gweilos? hahahaha....

[SloppyJoe]

Did you even read what I wrote? It will be the lack of crew, the standard of those joining with no other options, such as the French guy who applied but ended up killing lots at Air Asia (an expat). The forced rapid progression.

I guess you didn't and are just an angry racist looking for an issue.

[veritas777]

Well given time to command right now is well over 15+ years, "rapid progression" is hardly the problem in this company. If that's such a concern for you I guess never fly a regional airline in the US, the guy in the left seat might have been only there a 1 year instead.

[Rie]

15 years at the moment, remove all the expats and that drops significantly. You could have people in command of wide bodies with barely 3000hrs of radio work experience. These things happen in South East Asia. Safety is compromised. Good old Swiss cheese.

[LLLQNH]

What are you talking about they will
just hire direct entry captains! (COs 18 allows it) You will never ever see a 3000 hour pilot in command of a cx jet, the insurance premiums are too much!

[Farman Biplane]

Spread em wide guys and gals, the age of consent is upon us!
The Swire directors gin palace will be in full party mode tonight, funded by your permanent future earnings contribution.

[Rie]

Sorry LLQNH, I wasn't looking to offend. Was just pointing out the previous posters distaste of all expat pilots. If his wish was to come true then the outcomes are not great.

[wongsuzie]

Aviation with Asian values

One more from the esteemed PM

you can't run an airline with out risk

[AllWobbly]

LLLQNH

That's not actually the case. KA had several and CX in the late 80s had a very low time ex lightning (v talented)chap.

[fly1981]

Airlines around the world put low time local pilots in the left seat, cx is no different.

[Flap10]

Poetic Justice? For years several self righteous keyboard warriors here never missed an opportunity to mock or berate those joining a lower CoS, while they themselves were too scared to do anything to protect their own CoS during a long period when we had the upper hand.

Now they're tripping over themselves to quickly sign over onto a CoS that will seal their fate for good come round 2. I am LMAO!!!!!

[Farman Biplane]

Round 1: 05Nov20, commence termination of those pilots that refused to help out CX.

Round 2: 06Nov20, Conduct bases review and arrive at predetermined finding that all will be closed and pilots will return to the prevailing COS18 in HK. This will “help” to fill in those pilots that had to be terminated, avoiding any rehire of tainted exCX/KA pilots.

Round 3: 01Jan21 conduct review/update of forward bookings and recovery rate of the industry. Admit that as forecast the demand will only be 25% of normal for 2021. Come to the already decided conclusion that 777 pilots are in excess and terminate half of them without that pesky legacy LIFO contract in place.

Round 4: 01Apr21 finally get the HKCAD approval to do MFF A350/321neo and A330/320 and cross train all Airbus pilots. This will aid in rostering exactly 46.66 hrs/mth for the foreseeable future, thus avoiding any productivity pay.

Round 5..........

[doolay]

Sadly, that's probably going to be pretty accurate.

[fatbus]

MFF 350/321? Why not 350/330 and 320 family ?

[mngmt mole]

I think that concern will be least of your worries Fatbus...

[mngmt mole]

Word has it that 98% signed over before yesterday's deadline. Yes....almost everyone. I think we can officially put a fork in any hopes of reviving the career of "pilot" at CX.

[Farman Biplane]

who cares?
You can still resign on current COS until 04Nov.

[SaulGoodman]

Airlines around the world put low time local pilots in the left seat, cx is no different.

3000 hrs short haul is a different game to 3000 hrs long haul.

[fly1981]

Firstly cx now has 320’s.... secondly, having done both, I can assure you certain destinations in China are a 100 times more difficult than any long haul I have ever done. My long haul days were operated for an Asian airline( rated one of the safest airlines in the world) a local full function captain had around 100 landings in his total career before he got ungraded. When you flying long haul, Total hours means nothing, be because you acrue them very quickly as a result of sector time, 3000 hrs is nothing in the long haul division, agreed, however, the local ka pilots that were let go, 3000 hrs is a substantial amount of experience, all sectors are short, mostly 3 a day, to some very tricky destinations. They are very capable.

[icemankk2001]

only 98% signed ? I was hoping for 99.5% hahahaha. Congrats all.

[Dragon Pacific]

It will be very much interesting to see how many resign and walk away.

[mngmt mole]

When the reality sinks in, I suspect many will conclude it's no longer viable staying in HK. With a family it will be almost impossible to not be upside down each month. Add in the impossibility of commuting (never mind the cost) and you quickly recognise that you are going backwards each month. I predict the resignations will begin to flow in at an ever increasing rate in the coming months. As an expat airline, CX is finished.

[rhoshamboe]

That's what they want and are counting on.

[mngmt mole]

I suspect you are correct.

[icemankk2001]

please dont just talk only... act on it. why wait for few months to resign? why wait to be moving backwards each month ? the queue is long waiting outside the door. come on..... lets do it

[cabbages]

Why all the vitriol 'Iceman'? You don't fly for CX. You never have and never will.

[icemankk2001]

Of course nobody can get into CX... because all CX pilots signing the new COS.... or almost all... duh.....

[MENELAUS]

English not your strong point Iceman ?

[LLLQNH]

It will be very much interesting to see how many resign and walk away.

I would be incredibly surprised if hardly any didn't sign, and ended up walking away! Those who were close to retirement took the ERS and went early already! People aren't stupid despite all the chest thumping on here, they know that CX on Cos18 is the way it will be until they find a new job elsewhere! If that's going to be a flying job then it wont be for 2-3 years! I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I just don't see any jobs being backfilled for any guys on the street at the moment. If anything it appears as though we are still over staffed.

[cannot]

Under current conditions I don’t blame anyone for signing , it gives them a breathing space during the pandemic . Once things pick up I can see a large number of people finding other jobs in their home countries

[Dilbert68]

Exactly what he said. Most of us realize that there is no future here, when the world reopens, the exodus will begin. I would not be surprised if CX is woefully short of pilots in two years time. I guess that is a gamble they are willing to take.

[Koan]

Unless most resign there is no gamble they will have enough crew as best case scenario traffic in two years will be a fraction of 2019 levels

[Avinthenews]

In two years, COS18 - RA55. Would you like an extension?

[Oddball77]

3000 hrs short haul is a different game to 3000 hrs long haul.
How is it any different?

[OK4Wire]

1200 landings vs 100, for starters.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Exactly what he said. Most of us realize that there is no future here, when the world reopens, the exodus will begin. I would not be surprised if CX is woefully short of pilots in two years time. I guess that is a gamble they are willing to take.

They will roster us at 35ish hrs for the next few years, and arrange crewing levels accordingly. Like that they have full flexibility at very little cost.

[carolknows]

:) For those interested, there is a #FlyWithDignity facebook and instagram page started by the FAU.
Also as they mentioned, i quote, - The mgmt's 1 year paycut is as follow: CEO 30%, directors 20%, managers 15%.

[Gordomac]

At the start of all this, one chap defended his actions with a statement that he was well aware of the "kack sandwich" that was coming his way. Unlike anywhere else in the industry, CX fellas have been sitting around, doing nothing, on FULL pay. Stacks of time to take a step back and while Rome burns, view carefully what is going on. No brainer, actually. Now the kack sandwich has been delivered, of course everyone will bite. It is the only sensible decision given all the elements in a highly combustable environment. Making the only "sensible" decision appears to have occurred to some 98% almost a no brainer again. Not a nice tasting sarnie but it buys time. First thing we were all taught in the unplanned emergency case wasn't it ? Buy time. 98% have come to the same conclusion.

[Oddball77]

Gotta love expats who think their superiority over the locals is the only thing stopping those idiot Asian airline people from killing themselves.

Did you even read what I wrote? It will be the lack of crew, the standard of those joining with no other options, such as the French guy who applied but ended up killing lots at Air Asia (an expat). The forced rapid progression.

I guess you didn't and are just an angry racist looking for an issue.
The French expat you talking about was a Pay to Fly pilot, who didn't have a clue how to recover a stalled aircraft - PPL stuff mate. He was the PF, the skipper was the one pulling circuit breakers.

[cxorcist]

How is it any different?
That you have to ask tells us just how little you actually know. Hence the point!

[Drc40]

Everyone needs to look at these worthless concessions for those cretins. They are an insult!

[mngmt mole]

Let's put a few things in their proper light:

1) Managements pay cuts, only one year, then back to their former level
2) Management will reap larger bonuses due their cost cutting on all budgets
3) Trainers and Checkers have apparently been given a higher housing allowance, and in some cases a "secret" salary deal (not verified but there is evidence)
4) Senior levels of the company will see their compensation increase over this period, while all the regular staff (pilots/FA's/others) will see a catastrophic decrease in theirs
5) Management retain their gold-plated medical benefits for themselves and their families. Our families are thrown to the wolves if you have a serious illness

[Farman Biplane]

and that surprises you?

[Air Profit]

If course it doesn’t surprise me. I made plans accordingly these last 12 months. I just weep for the company and many close friends who have been devastated.

[mngmt mole]

Not at all. I made my plans months ago. I just feel very sad for many of my peer group and their families.