WW2 Post award photograph maybe?

[David Rayment]

Whilst trawling through my Father's aviation papers I came upon this photograph. My Dad was not one for keeping wartime memorabilia so it must have had some significance for him (He was killed in '58, Hermes G-ALDV) so I was interested in finding out some more about the gentlemen in this photograph. They are all post tour (I assume) - most have the DFC and they are not all pilots. Ranks are from pilot officer to squadron leader. On the original I can spot Air Gunners, Observers, Navigators and there are a couple of 'S' (Signaller). What I would like to find out is the where, when and why? Gordon finished his tour on 27/12/44 as a Flying Officer and was released from active service 16/1/47 as a Flight Lieutenant so the time the photograph was taken must be between those two dates. He was awarded the DFC as a F/L date unknown, missed the King, got award by post maybee? On 31/8/45 he was a Flying Officer but in the photo he is hiding his rank rings! . Oh and the large guy in the front row with the fine but unruly moustache has I think, a pair of pathfinder wings. After his tour Gordon went onto: Conversion Unit GIF Silverstone; 12 OTU, Chipping Warden; 84 (or 85) OTU Husbands Bosworth, and finally 17 OTU Silverstone.

I guess this is a long shot with not much to go on - anyone recognise anything on this photograph? Even down to the magnificent tin shed that probably, like so many, hung on so bravely after the war

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1280x726/raf_group_90790253129fb5c4331cc4ecad915c00f68bcaf0.jpg

[Quemerford]

Can't add anything but thankyou very much for posting an awesome photo! Very evocative.

[dduxbury310]

Also shows how one's stature is ruled by a very variable swarm of unruly genes! Just cannot get over the differences in height, and the shapes the face assumes in growing men. Also this was the age of large (generous) trousers. And I wonder if the background "shed" is one of the ubiquitous Nissan huts from the Great War period.
David D

[DHfan]

Nissan make cars. Peter Nissen invented/designed the huts.

[Yellow Sun]

Fascinating photograph, thanks for posting it. The lack of foliage on the tree in the photo would rule out it being taken in the summer months, not sure if that helps at all.Fenced off flower bed on the left would seem to indicate a station rather than squadron building maybe? I am also intrigued that although they are all wearing No1 HD there is considerable variation and informality about the photo. Some carrying coats and gloves, some wearing gloves, another with a sheet of paper (?) and one with a cigarette. It has the air of a quickly taken memento rather than an official photograph.

I too would love to know the occaision.

YS

[longer ron]

Is the guy standing inside the Hatch/Window wearing a 'Blancoed' Belt ?

[GeeRam]

Is the guy standing inside the Hatch/Window wearing a 'Blancoed' Belt ?

Yes he is.

[longer ron]

I do wonder if it is a Guardroom - I know it is not the standard type of RAF Guardroom but possibly they used a Nissen type building as such on some 'temporary' (ie wartime only) Airfields.

[safetypee]

Smallest signaller, front row with gloves; reminiscent of 'Monty' who commanded our ATC unit - Biggleswade.

Took a hit in a Halifax; possibly flying from Tempsford. Many old / temporary huts around the airfield and at the camp on the hill in Everton - WRAF, thence temp PoW.
My first memory of 'home'; our family squatted in the medical unit until houses were built in the village.

[David Rayment]

So now we have to identify the flowers which might enable us to identify the season / month. My guess is Dahlias for the left hand border and small roses in the right hand border against the wall of the guardhouse. The AG on the far right also has a scroll/bit of rolled up paper. The fence and stone work has recently received the whitewash treatment, so obviously a prestigeous entrance with its double doors.

I will put the original through Photoshop and see what magic that can achieve!

DavidR

[longer ron]

Hi David
I was looking at the 2 chaps with bits of paper in their hands last night and was speculating that they could be 'Clearance Chits' ( RAF personnel had to 'clear' from each station/unit' by getting signed off from the relevant station sections) - so perhaps 3 x crews have completed training and clearing from station ??
Of course it is pure speculation on my part - the papers could be anything :)

[mcdhu]

But no NCOs - strange for crews of big aeroplanes.
mcdhu

[Self loading bear]

I was wondering what the extra wings on the breast pocket could mean?

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/628x767/bb9d09a1_23e0_443c_ad71_996f978aa05c_1c8e1d806753a60c03a02bd 59c0d30691021e9eb.jpeg

[longer ron]

I was wondering what the extra wings on the breast pocket could mean?

SLB - it is a 'Pathfinders' Badge awarded to suitably qualified 'Pathfinder' crews.

[David Rayment]

The flowers rule out Chipping Warden because Gordon was only there in the last half of January 45. There is a scattering of ranks from Pilot Officer to Wing Commander - the pilot with the Pathfinders Badge. Assuming that a DFC was given to the Captain after a tour, the Pathfinder has not got his yet! There are also a number of other awards that I have not identified.

Looking through the window - is that a wooded hill - does Silverstone have such a hill. I forgot to look when I was there 24/7/71!

Thank you for all your interesting comments

DavidR

[David Rayment]

Yes it has a hill!

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Development_history_of_Silverstone_Circuit

DavidR

[megan]

But no NCOs - strange for crews of big aeroplanesPerhaps taken at the Officers mess, given David's comment, "The fence and stone work has recently received the whitewash treatment, so obviously a prestigeous entrance with its double doors".

[Mr Mac]

David R
Your photo is very evocative of the period, and I think I maybe able to help identify the location. The gentleman on the extreme right maybe Stan Hathaway, who was a Navigator in Halifax's flying from Tempsford. He definitely looks like him, and if the photo is of Tempsford that would fit. He was shot down over France on 22nd July 1943 I believe, and met my Father in POW camp, and they subsequently escaped together in 1945, and he was my Fathers best man hence my knowledge about him.

Kind regards
Mr Mac

[David Rayment]

Or maybe it was taken at No. 3 (Pilot) Advanced Flying Unit (3 (P)AFU), at Lulsgate Bottom - end of course 18 June 1945 - probably not - too many non-pilots!

DavidR

[Garfy]

The location of this picture looks very much like the Guard & Fire Party House (Bld.34) at RAF Silverstone.

Garth.

[longer ron]

The location of this picture looks very much like the Guard & Fire Party House (Bld.34) at RAF Silverstone.

Garth.

As I alluded to in post #6 - it does look like a guardroom with the open Hatch/Window and what is possibly the Duty Dog with the Blancoed Belt standing inside.

[Cornish Jack]

The Pathfinders badge brings back instant memories of Thorney Island Sgts' Mess in mid 50s - Lots in evidence plus quite a few of McIndoe's 'Guinea Pigs'. Regarded in awe by we 'Sprogs' and, unsurprisingly, tended to remain separated from those of us who hadn't shared their experiences. Quite a number of them were ex-617 Sqdn and bushy moustaches were common.

[brokenlink]

David hi,
Daft question but are their any clues on the reverse of the photograph?
Have also asked a friend at the PFF Museum to see if he can help with the guy with the Pathfinder Badge. I'll let you know....

Regards,

BL

[David Rayment]

Thank you all for your help with this photograph. I had foolishly discounted Silverstone because although Gordon was there from 20/6/45 the trees would have been in leaf. However a reapaisal of Gordon's Logbook shows that a month and a half after finishing his tour he spent a few weeks at Silverstone on an Instructors Course - Unit GIF Silverstone. What does GIF stand for?
That was in February 14/2/45 to 2/3/45 when flowers can be out and trees may not have their leaves. So it is very likely (definately) to be Silverstone and I assume that they are all instructors who have passed the course and will now be free to instruct. I wonder how many survived the 'resting' stage of their careers. Gordon got away with "Flaps u/s 1st night flapless Landing. Very Dicy" on a Wellington X and one engine failure, also on a Wellinton X.

So thank You Garth!

[lauriebe]

Two possibilities for the abbreviation GIF.

The first is the Glider Instructors Flight. However, I can find no record of that unit ever being located at Silverstone.

The other possibility is No.92 Group Instructors Course/School/Flight. This unit was at Silverstone from 15/3/44 until 92 Gp disbanded in mid-1945.

Hope that helps.

[David Rayment]

Helps a lot - almost certainly it's a photograph of the successful aircrew after a Group Instructors Flight course. Thank you lauriebe

[lauriebe]

Most welcome David.