Airline Pilot re-employment ?

[Busbitch]

For those of you who have lost their job with an Airline or can plainly see they are about to (like me) can you tell me what jobs you have found or realistically would like to do?
I'm an 18,000 hr heavy jet Pilot & I know my career as an Airline Pilot will be over very soon, I doubt I'll be flying ever again.
I'm too young to retire but no job seems to hold any real appeal for me. For those that have gone through this already, what are you doing for work or planning to do ?
Given the type of person who operates a Jet & has only ever flown for a living and considering my obvious skill set, does anyone have a bright ideas?
I don't need an immediate income but I'm ruined unless I can come up with a decent alternative to flying as I have young children to care for as well.

[Climb150]

There are two things to consider with your question. Do want a job with similar remuneration to your flying job, or just any job that puts food on the table and you want make you die of boredom/monotony?

[PoppaJo]

You will probably need to relocate if you want to maintain any form of flying job, albeit with a large pay drop, which I know for many is not an option. Those I know who have got a flying job were mainly newer FOs who had recent ties to these companies and were taken back on.

Perhaps truck driving? Know a few doing that right now. Otherwise everyone else appears to be in Retail or Health.

If your after something long term, I would be looking at some form a trade.

[krismiler]

How old are you ? With 18 000 hours I’ll take a guess at 50+, same as me. Unfortunately at our age it’s a bit late to start out in a new profession which requires 5 years training and a few more years experience before the $$$ start to become meaningful.

If you have the flair for it, being a salesman offers good income potential with little training required. Otherwise driving jobs always come up, if you can take 12 hour shifts FIFO on the mines in WA can get you $110 000 a year

[Buster Hyman]

From personal experience (not a Pilot of course), chasing the $$$'s was the wrong move for me after AN. After maybe 15 years, I found myself in a senior role in a dead boring job thinking 'WTF am I doing here?' I wont elaborate on the personal issues that ensued but I managed to get back into Aviation where I'm definitely happier.

We all have a unique set of needs & it's a good start to seek advice but make sure you move in a direction that will meet your needs & keep you and the family sane. Don't compromise too much.

[Flying Mechanic]

i am a pilot based in Japan, still have a job. I loose my job , i plan to become an amazon delivery driver . That will keep food on the table and pay the rent . prior to flying i was a aircraft mechanic, so maybe look at using those skills ie car shop.Over my 20 years of flying , i have always gone back to aircraft engineering as back stop, but this time it wont be an option.

[dr dre]

but no job seems to hold any real appeal for me.

Here’s some starters for what particular jobs you may be suited to:

https://joboutlook.gov.au/career-tools/career-quiz
https://www.opencolleges.edu.au/careers/career-quiz
https://www.training.com.au/ed/career-quiz/
https://www.careerexplorer.com/career-test/

Use the many resources available from the government at:
https://jobsearch.gov.au/serviceproviders
https://jobactive.gov.au/
https://jobsearch.gov.au/career-transition-assistance

Look at Seek, what are the in demand vacancies atm?, look at the training courses, TAFE, Uni and other RTO courses. Search for in demand occupations that require minimal training for a start. Franchising? Small business? Google for “career transition assistance”?

[Busbitch]

How old are you ? With 18 000 hours I’ll take a guess at 50+, same as me. Unfortunately at our age it’s a bit late to start out in a new profession which requires 5 years training and a few more years experience before the $$$ start to become meaningful.

If you have the flair for it, being a salesman offers good income potential with little training required. Otherwise driving jobs always come up, if you can take 12 hour shifts FIFO on the mines in WA can get you $110 000 a year

I'm late 40's, I'm fit & motivated. I won't do FIFO though, not with young kids. If I could make near $100k (less than half my previous pay check) I would be happy. I know that sounds a bit entitled but I feel like I'm worth more than a job pushing a fork lift. I'm happy to invest some time or money to get there as I reckon I got another 15 years in the workforce, so I'm trying to think of something outside of the box, sales is a good suggestion.

[crosscutter]

Almost all local governments have an emergency management division. It is an environment we are well suited, have many of the desired qualities and you can work your way up through the ranks.

[Walking Ballast]

Not sure where you are located, and note that you have young children to look after.... so, might not be for you... but the agricultural sector is desperate for harvest machinery operators at the moment.

Training is provided, no experience is necessary, but it is seasonal and you move north to south following the work the money is ok. You can expect to earn from $27 to $35 an hour as a chaser bin driver or between $32 and $48 in a header. Hours are long an weather dependent.... but you are in a machine with a/c and comfy chair, 99% of the time your are working with a really great crew of ppl from all over.
​​​​​
Some of your existing skills will be very welcome. You would be surprised how transferable things like CRM and the ability to read and interpret weather are.

Another area that needs workers.... but in limited numbers is for loaders in the air ag industry. Worth a few phone calls.

All the best in your search.

[Valdiviano]

This might work for some.
Post 89 as a 38 year old with a young family and a VERY supporting wife, overseas was not for us.
Moved to mid north coast NSW after selling our home in WA, with all our pooled money, not much, we bought a run down business. We had no experience but were passionate about it, had to, our balls / ovaries where on the line.
We worked very, very hard, she in admin and money gymnastics, I in sales and running the show. We looked after the staff and the customers, this is key. After 8 years we bought the Real Estate and redeveloped on a shoe string.
At 52 sold the business and kept the Real Estate and retired.
Not for everyone but it might work for some.

[SixDemonBag]

I’m stood down. Applied and got a delivery driver job in the inner west in Sydney off seek. Only stood out because I was seen to be grossly over qualified. Deliver glass to worksite. $30/hr. Offered full time, chose to do 4 days a week. I work with great people and enjoy the change. Sleeping in your bed at night and taking a packed lunches are nice novelties.

[PoppaJo]

I was at Woolworths (still am- casual) whilst stood down, prior to returning back to limited flying recently, Store Managers earn around 130k plus car, Assistant Store Manager 100k. Department managers around 90k. Most seemed to be jumping the promotional ladder fairy quickly. I guess the best bit is can be very close to home (well for me was 7 minutes and can leave home like 10 minutes before sign on). Seemed to be many opportunities in that company, quite the opposite to this industry. Culture and staff engagement left our company for dead, many things we could learn of these operators. Was always ongoing vacancies In Management they told me, just a nature or the business, as people cycle the promotional ladder in the company.

[krismiler]

but the agricultural sector is desperate for harvest machinery operators at the moment.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/244x206/image_62970c9186b7a78b659e2c05161600627c0f1bdc.png


https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/04/pilot-scheme-planes-may-be-grounded-but-theres-work-on-australias-farms

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/countrylife/audio/2018762621/from-boeing-to-baling

[aviation_enthus]

I was at Woolworths (still am- casual) whilst stood down, prior to returning back to limited flying recently, Store Managers earn around 130k plus car, Assistant Store Manager 100k. Department managers around 90k. Most seemed to be jumping the promotional ladder fairy quickly. I guess the best bit is can be very close to home (well for me was 7 minutes and can leave home like 10 minutes before sign on). Seemed to be many opportunities in that company, quite the opposite to this industry. Culture and staff engagement left our company for dead, many things we could learn of these operators. Was always ongoing vacancies In Management they told me, just a nature or the business, as people cycle the promotional ladder in the company.

I’ll second this idea. Woolies was my second job for 5 years early in my career. I briefly explored the idea of climbing the corporate ladder when I struggled to get my flying career going.

In house training, opportunities to move between stores as well (anywhere within Australia, I transferred between NT and QLD twice).

[DeltaT]

Aircraft refueller
Airline Flight Planner
Airport Apron Controller (on the radio talking to planes between gate and ATC demark point)
Airport safety officer (covers many facets of the airport)
Air Traffic Controller (get paid while training depending on your country, 1 year, AU and UK yes you do)
Technical document writer

Train Driver
Sea port pilot (on the tugs)
Port planner (scheduling ships and container loads)
Operations Manager (on anything)

If you have a Space industry in your country, the job opportunities are numerous and the scope is accelerating. Rocketlabs here in NZ is advertising nonstop.

[Ken Worth]

I can second what others have said about the ag industry, seems to be quite a demand there.

Also in heavy transport. I was fortunate to have worked in this field prior to getting a pilot license so that helped to get back in to it.

There is a real shortage of decent people to operate this equipment. It is more than just driving down the road however. Loading and securing freight. Fatigue rules and which roads one can drive a certain combination on are all daily challenges. I would say pilots are very suited to this work but one does need an M/C or at least H/C license.

Most towns have several freight companies so it should be relatively straight forward to go down to one and have a chat.

I am operating a road train or b-double and grossing between 2 and 3 k a week.

[Busbitch]

Some really good info in here thanks guys. I understand many of the Airline employee help websites, phone numbers & assistance resources have seen a three fold increase in demand the last six months. Time to put aside petty & corporate disputes for a bit & help out some of our colleagues, some I know are really struggling & some are really falling apart. Keep any suggestions coming, not just for my sake, regards.

[getaway]

For those of you who have lost their job with an Airline or can plainly see they are about to (like me) can you tell me what jobs you have found or realistically would like to do?
I'm an 18,000 hr heavy jet Pilot & I know my career as an Airline Pilot will be over very soon, I doubt I'll be flying ever again.
I'm too young to retire but no job seems to hold any real appeal for me. For those that have gone through this already, what are you doing for work or planning to do ?
Given the type of person who operates a Jet & has only ever flown for a living and considering my obvious skill set, does anyone have a bright ideas?
I don't need an immediate income but I'm ruined unless I can come up with a decent alternative to flying as I have young children to care for as well.flight schedules in China are back to pre corona levels & flights are full, if you can believe news coming out of china.

USA deaths rates haven't actually increased, just instead of dying from flu, they die from corona.

Things will be back to normal soon. How long no one knows, but suggest all surviving airlines will be back to normal within 6 to 12 months.

Stop reading all the garbage in the media about cases of corona. Cases mean nothing & deaths are only in the vulnerable.

Will you have to take a pay cut ? Probably, but that's partly due to recession which we had to have.

[Australopithecus]

Getaway. Why don’t you ditto. Permanently.

[Ladloy]

USA deaths rates haven't actually increased, just instead of dying from flu, they die from corona.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/health/coronavirus-excess-deaths/2020/10/20/1e1d77c6-12e1-11eb-ba42-ec6a580836ed_story.html%3foutputType=amp
25 to 40 age group has deaths 25% higher than previous years
300k more deaths this year than last.

[dr dre]

C’mon children, stick to the topic of helping our colleagues find meaningful employment, there’s enough threads on this website if you want to go down the rabbit hole of Covid truthing conspiracy theories.

[KRUSTY 34]

A mate of mine (stood down A380 F/O) gave me a call the other day. “Krusty, you know how people refer to us as glorified bus drivers, well now I’m a real one”. Apparently the company he’s now working for has taken on a few stood down Long haul drivers.

Probably not what we envisioned as the final years leading up to retirement, but at least it gives a purpose to getting up in the morning.

I think pilots in their 30’s/40’s who have had everything ripped away after finally starting to see the fruits of many years of climbing the ladder, will have the greatest challenges.

[PilotLZ]

I know some pilots who hold a HGV licence and drive trucks whenever there's no flying. I also know some marine personnel who do the same in between contracts (in the world of ships, relatively few hold permanent jobs, most work on contracts that are 4-8 months in length and you have to look for a new one almost every time you step ashore). Few truck drivers are career drivers, most only do this job temporarily. Also, starting as a driver, you can advance your career in the logistics company as someone in dispatch and management. Could be an option if you're looking for something to fill in a gap between now and the next flying job or between now and retirement. Many of those jobs only involve driving short distances, so you won't necessarily get to sleep in the driver's cab even once. But, if you do - be very wary of where you stop. On some dodgy parking lots, you can easily get gassed and robbed while sleeping. Worse than that, there have been cases of drivers who were not aware that they had been gassed and ended up getting on the road and getting in an accident because of dizziness.

Another option I can think of is teaching. Depending on your knowledge, interests and aptitude towards teaching, you might be able to find a job as a lecturer in some technical subject. Ask around the educational institutions in your area. It doesn't have to be an ATO, quite the contrary. Universities and colleges tend to look for people who have actual industrial experience, as opposed to purely academic one, for the delivery of some practically orientated modules.

[Obscured by clouds]

One avenue worth thinking about are the emergency services (Police, Fire, Ambulance). They are all (very) underpaid for the work they do however this is offset by the excellent rosters (particularly the ambos and firies) which allow another job on the side. It is very satisfying and you're working with a fantastic bunch of people.
There is no upper age limit however the selection process for each service is very competitive and takes a number of months to go through.

[LostWanderer]

One avenue worth thinking about are the emergency services (Police, Fire, Ambulance). They are all (very) underpaid for the work they do however this is offset by the excellent rosters (particularly the ambos and firies) which allow another job on the side. It is very satisfying and you're working with a fantastic bunch of people.
There is no upper age limit however the selection process for each service is very competitive and takes a number of months to go through.

Agreed. However most emergency services roles have a 1+ year wait from application to employment, could be a good path if you expect to be out of flying for 3-4 years still

[krismiler]

I think pilots in their 30’s/40’s who have had everything ripped away after finally starting to see the fruits of many years of climbing the ladder, will have the greatest challenges.

In your 30s you're still young enough to change careers permanently or get back into flying when things pick up.
In your 40s it's more difficult and your commitments are higher.
In your 50s it will be much more difficult, however you may have done well enough to retire/semi retire.
In your 60s forget it, by the time recruitment starts again you'll be too old.

Driving jobs always make the list, however most states require you to have held a Heavy Rigid licence for a year before you can apply for a Heavy Combination licence. Uber is easy to get into, very flexible and much easier with GPS having replaced the Refidex. However some states have suspended new driver sign ups due to COVID.

Earlier this year I was appraising my options just in case, and FIFO on the mines in WA seemed quite appealing with $110 000/year for 2 weeks on/1 week off for dump truck drivers. If you can get onto a grader $200 000/year is possible.

Breaking into a new area of employment is usually difficult, more so at a time like this but anyone who has done the hard yards in GA won't be too put off. Remember the number of charter companies you knocked on the door of before you got a break ? Remember trying to get a twin job with 10 hours M/E time ? Remember thinking you would never even get onto a turbo prop let alone an airline ?

These days any job will usually be better than the shonky GA employers of 20 years ago who didn't even pay the award.

[dr dre]

In your 30s you're still young enough to change careers permanently or get back into flying when things pick up.


Whilst doing a career change to another professional occupation may be an option and a goal for some, it isn’t exactly a desirable path. 30’s is an age where after the early transient stage of the 20s a lot of pilots have hit the stable airline job with decent pay, have married, started a family, have a mortgage without much equity or other assets. Financially vulnerable.

To start another professional career (which most pilots would have the aptitude to do) would involve 3+yrs of university, and then entry level roles in that field which would likely be poorly paid. It would take a few years beyond that to start approaching their previous income level, in the meantime the struggles and pressures would occur. There’s really no easy solutions.

[PilotLZ]

The reason why most pilots who are temporarily out of flying end up in less-than-prestigious jobs with a high staff turnover rate is exactly because they're pilots. Most employers realise that they will be gone in 60 seconds the very moment a flying job is thrown their way. And it's almost impossible to persuade anyone that, after having been subjected to a compulsory redundancy, you are now dreaming of a job that pays less than half of a pilot's salary becoming your "new normal" once and forever.

[Buster Hyman]

But not unheard of PLZ. I worked with an ex AN Pilot in the Public Service. He was doing well & was happy. Had no intention of returning. Of course, that was just one but if you put your mind to it, AND were genuine in your desire to start a new career, I don't think it's impossible.

[PilotLZ]

True that - but you need to be VERY convincing that you're 100% committed to a PERMANENT career change and there's no going back, whether aviation recovers or not in the foreseeable future. If you can convince your new employer that you're here to stay, getting a head start into a new career is not impossible. But if you give off the impression of someone who hasn't completely disengaged from aviation and left behind any idea of flying - see previous post.

[Luke SkyToddler]

I'm driving a bulldozer doing farm forestry conversions, and pretending that every pile of stumps is my airline management office :E

And trying to study and keep current as much as possible cause I do believe, it's suddenly going to come good again just as quickly as it went bad

[BendyFlyer]

BUSBITCH and others - A very good question. Some of us have been on that merrygoaround several times in our lifetimes. The best advice I would offer anybody is I have no advice but I would highly recommend a very good book called :

"WHAT COLOUR IS YOUR PARACHUTE by Richard Nelson Bolles"

Cheap book but priceless assistance - it simply gets you to focus on yourself, your attitudes, likes dislikes, where you want to live etc through a series of really well thought out exercise that help you re-examine yourself and where you want or need to go. If you do the various exercises and steps conscientiously you may come up with a range of possibilities that you can then focus on doing or looking for. Have lots of butcher paper handy you have to make up a lot of lists about a lot of stuff about yourself etc. It got me out of the rut of what do I do now, where is a job etc and a lot of self indulgent reflection to focus positively on a whole lot of stuff particularly related to work and what we do and where we do it.

It helped me actually discover the jobs I had done and thought I had done I never really wanted to do and actually hated and where I lived was not where I really wanted to live either. So yes, never lost my passion for aviation but rejigged it into a realistic outcome, did I get rich nah who gets rich in aviation? but I actually have enjoyed my life and where I got to live ever since. Still plenty of crap comes your way but thats life. As for the other half, if your in a relationship well this should help as well got to negotiate with yourself and others I guess. No miracle cure for that one except learning to listen.

And yes I guess there is the issue of luck and fate we all need it and some of us miss it but recognising that because someone else seems to have done good in some way just means they were lucky not blessed. Ernest K Gann dealt with an aviators luck in his classic "Fate is the Hunter".

For a lousy $36 from a whole bunch of booksellers really worth the effort and time. The outcome will keep you focused on where your going for yourself even if you go sideways every now and then on the journey.

Take care.

PS - the book has been around a long time I first worked my way through it about 1989 if I recall over 30 years ago now. Has pride of place on my bookshelf. And yes, no regrets ever since then about where I decided to go and do it all worked out fine.

[wheels_down]

I hope all you young ones take note of this thread and see the potential importance of learning something else in the 5-10 years post school prior to starting your aviation career in poverty wages.

What’s the rush. Enjoy life. Jump into it late 20s. I could not think of anything more miserable than becoming a pilot right after school.

[Centaurus]

At age 53 was retrenched from an overseas 737 operator many years ago. Used to fly Prime Ministers and Governors General in the RAAF in a previous career. Applied to be an Australia Post motor bike postie. Never got past the then public service aptitude test even though I already had logged 100 hours driving my own 50cc Honda motor bike same model as the posties. Just the luck of the draw.

[KRUSTY 34]

At age 53 was retrenched from an overseas 737 operator many years ago. Used to fly Prime Ministers and Governors General in the RAAF in a previous career. Applied to be an Australia Post motor bike postie. Never got past the then public service aptitude test even though I already had logged 100 hours driving my own 50cc Honda motor bike same model as the posties. Just the luck of the draw.

Interesting thing some selection processes. I recently interviewed for a position that would have been perfect for me. Definitely out of interview practice, and in hindsight would have done it differently. When I asked HR for some feedback they kindly agreed. Curiously the feedback didn’t give any specifics about my own performance but the HR lady lamented how the two successful candidates were unable to pass induction training! Yeah!

[spektrum]

I could not think of anything more miserable than becoming a pilot right after school.

I don't know man. Sitting in a lecture hall bored as hell or laying bricks with a bunch of kids who failed school doesn't sound like a great alternative.

[deja vu]

I don't know man. Sitting in a lecture hall bored as hell or laying bricks with a bunch of kids who failed school doesn't sound like a great alternative.
Nobody fails school anymore. And a good bricklayer is the smartest one in the room, beats being an unemployed pilot.

[patty50]

I’m a soon to be made redundant airline employee (non-pilot) and the job market in Sydney is looking pretty good. A number of my colleagues have found new work in decent jobs that don’t involve driving or shelf stacking. Relocating for most simply isn’t a viable option.

I think for many spamming job ads could be the way to go. There are so many random things out there these days that you will be tangentially qualified for that you’ve never even heard of. Set up a very vague seek job alert and look through what you like. Apply to everything interesting, the worst they can do is say no.

Obviously you’ll need a good story for why you won’t rush off in 5 minutes but the downsides of long haul flying aren’t difficult to explain.

My impression of late is that employers seem to be keen to swallow up airline employees knowing that by and large they are hard workers with heads screwed on straight. They know why you’re in the predicament you are in, many are sympathetic and will give you the benefit of the doubt.