What happened to all the retired Lynx ?

[Fonsini]

With the removal of the Lynx from RAF and RN service I was curious as to how the British disposed of them - military sales, civilian, or were they all scrapped ?

[[email protected]]

Many of the rotor heads were transplanted into the Wildcat aircraft at Westlands. You are not allowed to call it a Mk 10 Lynx but it looks and sounds like one:)

[NIREP reader]

They came to Middle Wallop (mostly flown in) and had components that were compatible with the Wildcat removed (not an exhaustive list) and assessed for Serviceability with a caveat, then they were put into the logistics system. The remainder of the cabs were sold or allocated as gate guards. Common knowledge has it that they were sold for £1k each to a contracted 3rd party. It’s all over now though and the engineering team moved onto other roles.

[212man]

With the removal of the Lynx from RAF and RN service I was curious as to how the British disposed of them - military sales, civilian, or were they all scrapped ?
Army Air Corps, not RAF

[Wirbelsturm]

had components that were compatible with the Wildcat removed

Surprised there was anything left serviceable on any of them given the many, many years of 'inter flight' robberies that went on! :E:}

[Fonsini]

Army Air Corps, not RAF

Quite right, I stand corrected.

[Two's in]

The BP exploratory drilling team has made an offer on the Lynx aft fuselage sections, and are confident they can get 15-25 years worth of fossil fuel by extracting all the oil that has soaked into the frameworks. Good job Westlands.

[MightyGem]

One or two have been turned into camping pods:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/travel/uk-ireland/gallery/helicopter-actually-fully-equipped-caravan-11526657

and I believe someone is trying to get one restored to flying.

[TEEEJ]

I heard most were released into the Welsh countryside to fend for themselves.

Some have been released in the Midlands.

71T_I9cVNRA

[TEEEJ]

Breakers yard, Lancashire 2014.

jcpLg3obOWY

[TEEEJ]

ZG914 glamping at Wainfleet, Lincs

1PeD3_uoMoU

[etudiant]

I'd always thought that helicopter airframes were just wrapping for the expensive bits.
That shifts the question to whether there is any utility to the surplus Lynx engines, transmissions and instruments. No idea what the market for those is. Can anyone help?

[N707ZS]

You can probably buy a whole Lynx helicopter in bits on Ebay.

[[email protected]]

Etudiant - you could run a RR Gem engine in something else as long as you can afford the bill for all the oil:)

[Wirbelsturm]

Crab,

Is that oil consumption or just the oil that pisses pours out of the labyrinth 'seal'? :}

[[email protected]]

They both count as oil consumption since you have to keep replacing it:)

[Cornish Jack]

On introduction, the engine being a RR 'Gem', it was suggested that they were manufactured from old double-edged razor blades - so reversion a possibility? :p

[Chris P Bacon]

You will find most of the retired Lynx fleet ended up with Hayward and Green www.haywardandgreen.com/aircraft/lynx-helicopters/ along with lots of spare parts.

[Fonsini]

Gems for sale - £5,000 “as pulled” up to £25,000 for serviced and mint. Interesting how they make specific mention of an integral oil tank - was the oil consumption really that bad ?

Gem Turbines For Sale (http://www.jetenginetrader.co.uk/product/rr-gem-engine/)

[Wirbelsturm]

was the oil consumption really that bad ?

When landing at an airfield that had a very nice, new, white concrete dispersal I was asked if the aircraft 'dripped' as I was merrily shoving drip pans under the aircraft and hanging coke cans on the exhausts after shutdown.

My reply was...'It's a Lynx', nuff said.

[mmitch]

I still see 'Lynx' on the aircraft type on ADS-B labels. There was one flying in the West country this morning. Would Westlands still use it as they have military serial numbers?
mmitch.

[[email protected]]

ISTR the problem was that they were installed a few degrees nose up in the Lynx - not sure if that was intentional but it was why the oil ran out of the jet pipes so much.

[gsa]

ISTR the problem was that they were installed a few degrees nose up in the Lynx - not sure if that was intentional but it was why the oil ran out of the jet pipes so much.

I remember somewhere in the back of memory it was 8 degrees so that they were flat in the intended cruise.

Weald are rebuilding a MK7 for flight so hopefully one will grace the sky’s again.

[212man]

I still see 'Lynx' on the aircraft type on ADS-B labels. There was one flying in the West country this morning. Would Westlands still use it as they have military serial numbers?
mmitch.
I'm guessing they will be Wildcats and that the type is considered a Lynx variant

[NutLoose]

If you want one see

https://www.everettaero.com/helicopters.html

[Two's in]

I remember somewhere in the back of memory it was 8 degrees so that they were flat in the intended cruise.

Weald are rebuilding a MK7 for flight so hopefully one will grace the sky’s again.

All of the above regarding the oil leak problem with the engines. Normally labyrinth seals not being effective after shutdown is not a problem, until you mount the engine 7 degrees nose up, when the oil runs out the back into the jet pipe. The lack of design coordination between RR and Westlands was mind boggling. It was always amusing when the Army Brass arrives to see the new Lynx, only to be confronted with sawn off oil cans hanging off the jet pipes with a skillfully crafted locking wire hook, looking more like a contender for a Romany festival than an anti-armour asset. As already mentioned, you can imagine the warmth of the welcome when landing away on a pristine dispersal to leave the Lynx DNA all over the concrete.

To prove incompetence knows no bounds, RR came out with snazzy dipsticks for the Gem to reduce maintenance time and allow quick and accurate check of the oil level, but it turns out the pip-pin locking was no match for Somerset's largest vibrator, and the dipsticks used to pop out and liberate the engine oil. The answer was to apply some complex wire locking to the dipstick handle, thus turning a quick oil check into an F707 entry. Genius! There was no shortage of dipstick jokes in circulation.

A Lynx fly away kit always included a couple of cans of oil and a Risbridger gun. That was one aircraft where you took engine oil checks seriously, compared to the Aztazou on the Gazelle, which seemed to run forever with no need to even top it off. Damn Frenchies.

[[email protected]]

I'm guessing they will be Wildcats and that the type is considered a Lynx variant Not at the home of the ACC a few years ago:) The Wildcat fielding team got very crinkly if you voiced the opinion that if it looked like a Lynx and sounded like a Lynx then it was a Lynx:)

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Not at the home of the ACC a few years ago
Actually, quoting the Aldershot Concrete Corporation aka Army Catering Corps is entirely appropriate when it comes to commenting on the Lynx... which in my biased opinion should've never been made, with the materials diverted to making pots and pans or park railings. The only aircraft which tried - with no undue input from me - to kill me on more than one occasion. Lookout was comparable to sitting in a bungalow and peering out through the letterbox; tail-rotor control was risible; hydraulics overheated after 5 minutes hover ops in OAT 30+... and whoever thought that the Accessory Drive from the Wessex was a good thing to bring over to this monstrosity had a very advanced sense of humour. The Mildcat folk can crinkle all they like - the Lynx was an abomination bought purely to give work to a Somerset factory, and the fact that it served so long and with relatively few casualties is a testament to the professionalism of the RN, AAC and REME personnel who had to keep it flying. As for the WG30 "Lynx with a topbox"... so glad that was seen off before it put even more lives and livelihoods at risk.

[Phil Kemp]

I always remember the WG-30, an aircraft that no-one in the hangar even knew existed, arriving at Bristow Redhill on a demonstration flight. Among a hangar and ramp filled with S61's, 212's, 205, Wessex, Whirlwind, Bell 47, and Hiller 12's, they landed, shut-down and immediately proceeded to hang these little cans under the exhaust to catch the profusely dripping oil. I think all credibility and potential for a sale evaporated immediately!

[ericferret]

Actually, quoting the Aldershot Concrete Corporation aka Army Catering Corps is entirely appropriate when it comes to commenting on the Lynx... which in my biased opinion should've never been made, with the materials diverted to making pots and pans or park railings. The only aircraft which tried - with no undue input from me - to kill me on more than one occasion. Lookout was comparable to sitting in a bungalow and peering out through the letterbox; tail-rotor control was risible; hydraulics overheated after 5 minutes hover ops in OAT 30+... and whoever thought that the Accessory Drive from the Wessex was a good thing to bring over to this monstrosity had a very advanced sense of humour. The Mildcat folk can crinkle all they like - the Lynx was an abomination bought purely to give work to a Somerset factory, and the fact that it served so long and with relatively few casualties is a testament to the professionalism of the RN, AAC and REME personnel who had to keep it flying. As for the WG30 "Lynx with a topbox"... so glad that was seen off before it put even more lives and livelihoods at risk.

I think the Acc Drive man now works for Leonardo on the 169 design team.

"Lets put the Acc dive on the left side where the baggage bay door is so those unloading can be deafened. Also a good idea to have an upward opening baggage door so it can be cooked in the exhaust stream".

"Job done, pizza anyone?"

[MightyGem]

ZG914 glamping at Wainfleet, Lincs

1PeD3_uoMoU
Ahh..they seem to have put the correct blades on in the correct direction.

[noooby]

I think the Acc Drive man now works for Leonardo on the 169 design team.

"Lets put the Acc dive on the left side where the baggage bay door is so those unloading can be deafened. Also a good idea to have an upward opening baggage door so it can be cooked in the exhaust stream".

"Job done, pizza anyone?"

Which is even more ironic when you consider the Accessory Drive for the 139 (when installed) is on the #2 side! They never got around to installing the actuator to disengage the engine though. All that is fitted is a spacer called the Dummy Actuator.

[Fonsini]

So when they put those upward facing diffusers on the exhausts did that solve the oil drip problem, or was there just an oil vomit on startup as it burped out the accumulated oil ?

PS - I never realised the Lynx was so hated by its pilots.

[NutLoose]

All of the above regarding the oil leak problem with the engines. Normally labyrinth seals not being effective after shutdown is not a problem, until you mount the engine 7 degrees nose up, when the oil runs out the back into the jet pipe. The lack of design coordination between RR and Westlands was mind boggling. It was always amusing when the Army Brass arrives to see the new Lynx, only to be confronted with sawn off oil cans hanging off the jet pipes with a skillfully crafted locking wire hook, looking more like a contender for a Romany festival than an anti-armour asset.
.

I was trying to find it online. the Army produced a recruitment poster in the 70's for the Lynx and it showed a cropped sideshot of the rotor head and engine area.... and low and behold there was the cut off oil can hanging off the exhaust that no one had thought to remove, it caused a lot of mirth at Odiham at the time.

[diginagain]

ZG914 glamping at Wainfleet, Lincs

1PeD3_uoMoU
Slept inside that one, and a few others. Can't say I'd rate it with a star, but it was drier than a trench.

[diginagain]

Actually, quoting the Aldershot Concrete Corporation aka Army Catering Corps is entirely appropriate when it comes to commenting on the Lynx... which in my biased opinion should've never been made, with the materials diverted to making pots and pans or park railings. The only aircraft which tried - with no undue input from me - to kill me on more than one occasion. Lookout was comparable to sitting in a bungalow and peering out through the letterbox; tail-rotor control was risible; hydraulics overheated after 5 minutes hover ops in OAT 30+... and whoever thought that the Accessory Drive from the Wessex was a good thing to bring over to this monstrosity had a very advanced sense of humour. The Mildcat folk can crinkle all they like - the Lynx was an abomination bought purely to give work to a Somerset factory, and the fact that it served so long and with relatively few casualties is a testament to the professionalism of the RN, AAC and REME personnel who had to keep it flying.
The finest small-ship's anti-submarine helicopter ever fielded by the British Army.

[diginagain]

So when they put those upward facing diffusers on the exhausts did that solve the oil drip problem, or was there just an oil vomit on startup as it burped out the accumulated oil ?

PS - I never realised the Lynx was so hated by its pilots.
Different donks. And, not ALL pilots hated the thing, although my knees will never recover from the experience.

[ericferret]

Which is even more ironic when you consider the Accessory Drive for the 139 (when installed) is on the #2 side! They never got around to installing the actuator to disengage the engine though. All that is fitted is a spacer called the Dummy Actuator.

It wouldn't be quite as bad for the 139 as you can unload from either side.
The 169 has a surprising number of design "gems" that are either annoying or expensive.

[[email protected]]

Fonsini - not all pilots hated the Lynx but those who flew the Mk 1 did have a lot to contend with as Thud describes - the Mk 7 and 9 were great fun to fly even if the anti-tank capability of the 7 was distinctly average.

[diginagain]

Fonsini - not all pilots hated the Lynx but those who flew the Mk 1 did have a lot to contend with as Thud describes - the Mk 7 and 9 were great fun to fly even if the anti-tank capability of the 7 was distinctly average.
Indeed. The progression from 1 to 7 via the GT was quite remarkable. Still needed to carry a Risbridger....

[Wirbelsturm]

The Mk 3 was great fun, the MK 3S Gulf Mod (cut holes and stuff fans in them) worked pretty well in hot areas but the Mk 8 was a bit of a whale in comparison. :E

Still the best chopper for wild deck work IMVHO.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Yes, I should've qualified my response by saying that all but 3 hours of my time on Lynx were on the Mk 1 - the Mk 7 was just coming in as I moved back to my parent service. I later learned that under the 'reorganisation' of airworthiness - perhaps 'filleting and gutting' would be a better expression - from which HM Forces are still suffering, the Lynx Mk7 service-intro was run by the same 'team' that had responsibility for the Chinook Mid-Life Update from Mk1 to Mk2. I had just assumed that the Army always introduced new variants with no Aircrew Manual, no Instructor's Guide, no FRCs and everyone just had to make do. Little did I know that this was the first sighting of the "new normal", which would in part lead to such tragic loss of life on the Mull and the miscarriages of justice that have still not been properly redressed. Shameful.

The fellas from the RN with whom I had the pleasure of working alongside from time-to-time were full of praise for the Mk3 (apart from its ditching properties, particularly if the floats didn't properly deploy), and were clearly capable of doing remarkable things with the beastie. I wish I'd remembered to include diginagain's description from post #37, which I often used to hear from AAC colleagues :ok:

[MightyGem]

I never realised the Lynx was so hated by its pilots.
No, it wasn't hated. When it stayed serviceable it was hard to beat, especially the Mk7 and 9. Mind you, it did kill a few of us. :(

[blind pue]

The Mighty Lynx wasn’t hated. We were constantly frustrated by it’s performance and serviceability, especially the Mk1. But once you understood the complexities of the Mk1 GTI, Mk2.5, Mk3.5, Mk3.5 Turbo & all the other combinations we had before the Mk7 it was treated with respect and loved. Even for those that suffered the odd Lynx bite.

[Two's in]

No, it wasn't hated. When it stayed serviceable it was hard to beat, especially the Mk7 and 9. Mind you, it did kill a few of us. :(

Exactly.

It was simply not crash worthy in any way, as many BOIs were to point out, and post crash fires were common. In 1994 when Les Berrisford and his pilot lost their Main Rotor Blade at 2,000 feet with predictably tragic consequences in XZ650, confidence in the Lynx was severely eroded. It was hard to fly a Lynx and not consider that particular outcome at some point. Westlands and the MoD did the usual dick-dance over accountability on that one, finally saying it was a one-off event caused by unique manufacturing circumstances, only to have Gazelle ZA777 have a tie-bar failure and blade loss in 2001 with the loss of Simon Hill. In 1999 the Leicester Lynx crash (XZ 199) took 3 lives in a post crash fire following an in-flight mechanical break up.

Flying carries risk, and military flying even more so. We all know that when we sign up, but the cavalier disregard for the safety record of the Lynx (not forgetting all the Royal Navy and foreign losses) and the wilful ignorance of the post-crash fire risk by the authorities is still shameful.

It seems cruelly ironic to say how nice it was to fly when it has killed quite so many friends and colleagues.

[[email protected]]

Good post Two's In:ok:

[tucumseh]

Thanks for that perspective Two's In. I only worked on RN Lynx avionics, but was vaguely aware of the tie bar issue being discussed next door in the mid-late 90s. But I do recall in 1987 the RN attrition rate (which determined future buys, from which Westland calculated shopfloor loading, but patently did not reflect reality) being increased from 30k to 40k hours. Quote a large leap, with little or no evidence, and had the effect of chopping Lynx funding. Another issue was trend analysis being cancelled in 1991 as a savings measure, which may explain being sometimes suddenly bitten.

Going further back, I recall my Divisional Manager on the phone to Intertechnique about the Fuel Quantity Indicators. (You'd get a batch of 10 to repair, all different inside, with no AP, repair manual or spares. From day 1 repair was by cannibalisation). 'They're sh**e. Ye may as well hang oot the ******* door wi' a ******* dipstick. What, ye dinna understand? Dae ye no' speak ******* English'. Er boss, neither do you, and he's French.

[[email protected]]

I wasn't a fan of the Gem oil system - the white metal bearings were at the end of the oil delivery system so that any drop in pressure or slight blockage immediately put you at risk of a catastrophic failure.

[Same again]

Loved the fuel gauge on the AH1. Simply by offsetting the selector a few mm's the needle fell to zero. Always a joy to watch your fellow aviators face on a quick instrument scan :-)

[Squat switch]

As to the original question; You'll find most of their locations here Demobbed - Out of Service British Military Aircraft (http://www.demobbed.org.uk/aircraft.php) - a few are spread across SPTA, some are paintball targets. Some are still intact.

Fun to fly, nightmare to maintain.

[Squat switch]

As to the original question; You'll find most of their locations here Demobbed - Out of Service British Military Aircraft (http://www.demobbed.org.uk/aircraft.php) - a few are spread across SPTA, some are paintball targets. Some are still intact.

[MightyGem]

Loved the fuel gauge on the AH1. Simply by offsetting the selector a few mm's the needle fell to zero. Always a joy to watch your fellow aviators face on a quick instrument scan :-)
Never knew that.

[lynx-effect]

That was my trick to scare the QHI on check rides. The faces!

[MightyGem]

As a QHI that would have been useful to scare the students. :}