Air Europe at NCL

[anthbower1234]

Hi did AE have a based unit at NCL at any point? Ive seen pics of aircraft on the ground at NCL but cant see anything in regard to a programme. Thanks all!

[GBYAJ]

Hi did AE have a based unit at NCL at any point? Ive seen pics of aircraft on the ground at NCL but cant see anything in regard to a programme. Thanks all!

I love a bit of nostalgia especially around ncl but the answer is no (subject to the last point)

International leisure group (ILG) used Dan Air from NCL mainly. I think this dated back to the early 80’s at least when Airways Holidays used DA.

However, in 88 ILG introduced Florida from
many regional airports incl NCL. It was a great success and from one weekly flight there ended up
being a number of fortnightly flights too so the 757, appeared at least a couple of times each week in the summer.

the first sub-charter that I ever saw was AE733 G-BMTF operating a ski flight from ncl in 87 for Britannia (when they were still friends!). I think they sent another AE 733 the next week and there a pictures on flickrr of this. I think there may have a been a weekly 737-400 in 1989 but nothing significant.


However, as part of a wider move ILG tried to force danair out of business in 1990. The DA 737 -200 that ILG used completed the summer and then left. The winter being covered by Spanish airlines from TFS (no ACE or LPA in those days) and an AE F100 at weekends for the closer routes.

the plan was for Air UK leisure to operate from
ncl for ILG for summer 91 but ILG went bust that winter. Dan air returned the following summer with the biggest based IT programme they has ever had from ncl but sadly their days were numbered too!

A bit more drift but UKL only visited once a week in 91 instead of a based machine but provided a bit more variety than they did in summer 90, G-UKLA in Malaysian colours was based nearly every weekend in 1990 iirc.

[anthbower1234]

Wow thank you! Awesome update :)

[Border Reiver]

To add to BJAY's excellent post the based Dan Air 734 based at NCL following AE's demise was G-TREN. The aircraft was ex AE. The 732 was planned to leave at the end of summer 90 as I completed a CFM conversion that autumn and operated out of BHX for the winter before returning to NCL at the start of summer 91

[Gordomac]

12 years from start to end with AE , I often refer to "us" and "we". But, did we t r y to "force" DA out of business ? BA tried to "force" us out of business for ages. Thought DA were our mates. Many ex Dan started at the top in AE and after "we" crashed and burned, many got jobs with DA. But mucky old businessbelow decks eh ?

BJAY : fab post. "We" certainly were operating through NCL but never Based there. Shame, I would have put in for my regular summer posting request away from Gatters. Loved Jedburg and the Aeroclub . Aaaaaagh, gettin all misty eyed again .

[brakedwell]

Looking at my AE logbooks, the first Newcastle I did was on April 27th 1980. We flew From Gatwick to Alicante, then on to Newcastle in B737/200 GBMSM. On the 28th we operated GBJFH from Newcastle - Palma - Manchester.
After 6 years on the B757 my first Newcastle - Bangor, Maine was on May 23rd 1989.

[anthbower1234]

Love these updates gents! The heydays at NCL

[GBYAJ]

12 years from start to end with AE , I often refer to "us" and "we". But, did we t r y to "force" DA out of business ? BA tried to "force" us out of business for ages. Thought DA were our mates. Many ex Dan started at the top in AE and after "we" crashed and burned, many got jobs with DA. But mucky old businessbelow decks eh ?

BJAY : fab post. "We" certainly were operating through NCL but never Based there. Shame, I would have put in for my regular summer posting request away from Gatters. Loved Jedburg and the Aeroclub . Aaaaaagh, gettin all misty eyed again .

i suppose such a sweeping statement could cause offence, so apologies!

I think though ILG did try to muddy Dan air in the press. Having used them for years and benefited from the cheaper rates on old aircraft they did announce that they wouldn’t using Dan air anymore because of their old inefficient aircraft. Dan air responded by saying we’ve offered ILG our most modern aircraft (presumably the 737-400’s) but they still won’t use us!

I think they may have tried to merge at the same time?

When push came to shove they were both in trouble in the early 90’s it just happened that Dan air had more assets (rather than leased aircraft) when the bank pulled the plug.

david James the company doctor brought in to save Dan air then started operating air Europe routes with New expensive leased aircraft just like AE had, mmmmmm (with hindsight!) no surprise really that didn’t work out!!

[GBYAJ]

To add to BJAY's excellent post the based Dan Air 734 based at NCL following AE's demise was G-TREN. The aircraft was ex AE. The 732 was planned to leave at the end of summer 90 as I completed a CFM conversion that autumn and operated out of BHX for the winter before returning to NCL at the start of summer 91


Border Reiver, sounds like you were a pilot for DA? Were you able to stay at NCL post-DA and any ideas what TREN stood for??? It was a totally out of sequence reg for DA but did look smart as one was the first without London in the titles.

NB if NCL hasn’t had such a good viewing area in the 80’s and I didn’t live within 🚴‍♀️ Distance I’d never have visited and carried around all this trivia for years!

[rog747]

post-DA and any ideas what TREN stood for??? It was a totally out of sequence reg for DA but did look smart as one was the first without London in the titles.


G-BRKG Del. 1990 to AE as a 737-4S3 but after AE's demise 3/91, ILFC leased it 4/91 to DA and re-regd as G-TREN
I cannot find any Ref as to why this Registration was sequenced. There seems to be no notable persons at Dan Air whom this could have recognised.

737-4S3's G-BKPA, PB and PE were all also obtained from AE at the same time, and became G-BGVM, VN and VO with Dan Air.

Dan Air's own brand new orders (via ILFC) for 737-3Q8 and 737-4Q8 were all due in 1993 but sadly Not Built.
737-4Q8 G-BUHK and HL
737-3Q8 G-BUHI and HJ

The Dan Air 737-300 and -400 fleets was entirely absorbed into British Airways, and some of them also flew for BA Franchise GB Airways.

As an aside Lloyds Bank were very negative to Dan Air who were struggling and Lloyds were advising ILG (AE) to take over Dan Air in 1991.
ILG had its own financial troubles with it's loans with Citibank and as it was no finance was forthcoming and AE went under within 24 hours on 8/3/91.
Although after AE's collapse many Tour Operators were looking for seats and uplift and Dan Air was well placed to take this work on, but the DA Board chose to ignore this and wanted to become an all-scheduled airline, in addition they were well placed to take over some of AE's prime scheduled routes.
The Financial industry had advised DA to gain vertical integration for quality charter flights with a large Tour Operator, or set up its own. Again this was ignored by the Board.
After AE's collapse summer bookings for Thomsons, Horizon and Airtours all soared by as much as 40%.
In May 1992 DA was LGW's largest resident & short haul operator there, with a good number of peak slots.
Despite this, Dan Air's Board strategy and thinking which could have made them into the No.1 scheduled carrier at LGW by choice was not driven, nor was the chance to rid the image of a cheap charter airline.
During 1992 there was much negotiations to save Dan Air all of which the history of can be found on the Dan Air website.

Of course, Gulf War 1 was in part a big player in both airline's woes...

[GBYAJ]

G-BRKG Del. 1990 to AE as a 737-4S3 but after AE's demise 3/91, ILFC leased it 4/91 to DA and re-regd as G-TREN
I cannot find any Ref as to why this Registration was sequenced. There seems to be no notable persons at Dan Air whom this could have recognised.

737-4S3's G-BKPA, PB and PE were all also obtained from AE at the same time, and became G-BGVM, VN and VO with Dan Air.

Dan Air's own brand new orders (via ILFC) for 737-3Q8 and 737-4Q8 were all due in 1993 but sadly Not Built.
737-4Q8 G-BUHK and HL
737-3Q8 G-BUHI and HJ

The Dan Air 737-300 and -400 fleets was entirely absorbed into British Airways, and some of them also flew for BA Franchise GB Airways.

As an aside Lloyds Bank were very negative to Dan Air who were struggling and Lloyds were advising ILG (AE) to take over Dan Air in 1991.
ILG had its own financial troubles with it's loans with Citibank and as it was no finance was forthcoming and AE went under within 24 hours on 8/3/91.
Although after AE's collapse many Tour Operators were looking for seats and uplift and Dan Air was well placed to take this work on, but the DA Board chose to ignore this and wanted to become an all-scheduled airline, in addition they were well placed to take over some of AE's prime scheduled routes.
The Financial industry had advised DA to gain vertical integration for quality charter flights with a large Tour Operator, or set up its own. Again this was ignored by the Board.
After AE's collapse summer bookings for Thomsons, Horizon and Airtours all soared by as much as 40%.
In May 1992 DA was LGW's largest resident & short haul operator there, with a good number of peak slots.
Despite this, Dan Air's Board strategy and thinking which could have made them into the No.1 scheduled carrier at LGW by choice was not driven, nor was the chance to rid the image of a cheap charter airline.
During 1992 there was much negotiations to save Dan Air all of which the history of can be found on the Dan Air website.

Of course, Gulf War 1 was in part a big player in both airline's woes...

rog747 always enjoy your posts!

[Landflap]

Rog, agree with GBYAJ, always a worthy read. Don't want to creep the thread too much but with regard to "both airline's woes", on the AE side, a reasonable account is given in the book about AE, if you can get your hands on a copy. Noteworthy is the Editor's caveat concerning libel laws before commenting too much. Says it all. Mostly.

[GBYAJ]

Looking at my AE logbooks, the first Newcastle I did was on April 27th 1980. We flew From Gatwick to Alicante, then on to Newcastle in B737/200 GBMSM. On the 28th we operated GBJFH from Newcastle - Palma - Manchester.
After 6 years on the B757 my first Newcastle - Bangor, Maine was on May 23rd 1989.

thanks, a bit before my time so really interesting too! Tried to get my parents on one of those 757 to MCO but they wouldn’t go for it!

[rog747]

Thanks for your kind comments - Probably since I joined the charter airline and package holiday industry in 1972 I have always had a close interest in the IT market, the charter airlines, and its origins and history.

Sadly I was working with operations & handling at LGW for AE, one of our main customers the morning they went bust, big shock, very sad - met many crews out at the aircraft at LGW and often flew with AE on staff travel to somewhere sunny and warm or went down route with them to sort out handling issues at outstations.

Intasun Holidays, was one of Dan Air's largest customers for seats 'pre AE'
What came next was Air Europe's undercutting of IT seat prices was that it first waited for all the other Tour operators to place their business with Dan-Air and only then placed its contracts, fitting in with whenever aircraft and crews were available. This meant that a lot of Intasun's business involved mid-week and night flying which meant cheaper holiday packages to sell. This, in turn, was a win-win for both operator and airline.
It enabled Intasun to charter aircraft at substantially lower rates than its competitors, who had to pay a premium for chartering planes at weekend peak times although it permitted Dan-Air to increase its fleet utilisation, thereby boosting the company's overall profitability at that time.
However, the high fuel consumption of Dan-Air's older fleet – Comets, 1-11's and 727's which at that time made up the bulk of its charter fleet against rising jet fuel prices made it more and more difficult to offer Intasun the seat rates at which it was prepared to contract its business to Dan-Air.
It was all fun and games.

Air Europe became a first rate charter airline, using brand new equipment from the outset and provided food and service that were reviewed to be comparable to scheduled carriers.
Attracting higher-margin business from the more upmarket tour operators Air Europe was often chosen, who then aimed to distance Air Europe from Intasun.

ILG wanted without incurring the additional expense of basing aircraft and crews at regional UK airports to operate seasonal flights only or, alternatively, incurring the cost of operating empty legs with aircraft repositioned from its two main bases, LGW & MAN.
This resulted in an arrangement whereby Air Europa's aircraft from Spain were flying German and Scandinavian holiday makers during the daytime, and Intasun's regional UK customers at night. Higher aircraft utilisation and lower direct operating costs for Air Europa were vastly superior compared with Thomson's Britannia Airways, then the UK's leading charter airline, and Air Europe's biggest competitor in the European charter market, this in turn again enabled Intasun to undercut Thomson's prices.

AE was one of the first airlines to see the benefit of seasonal aircraft swap-leases with the likes of Air Florida, and British Airways.
More fun & games....


ILG was a giant really - In-house tour operator Intasun was to become the UK's second-largest package tour operator (after the market leader Thomson)
plus the ILG airlines -
Air Europe (ceased 3/1991)
Air Europa SA (still flying, now part of IAG)
Air Europe Italy Spa (became part of the Volare Spa group, then bought by Alitalia, closed down in 2008.
Air Europe Express
(AEX was highly profitable to the end, bought out by previous Connectair management as Euroworld, then CityFlyer Express which in turn became a BA Franchise, then fully absorbed into BA mainline at LGW to eventually become BA Connect.
British Airways' sale of BA Connect to Flybe in 2007 did not include the LCY operations and fleet of RJ100 aircraft, so a decision was then made to resurrect the name CityFlyer Express, now BA CityFlyer)
plus the tie-up & stake with Norway Airlines to use their new 737's in AE colours for the LGW - Scandinavia routes.

Orders had been placed with MDD by AE as launch customer on six + 12 options for RR powered MD-11's. The airline intended to use these aircraft to operate a mix of long-haul charter and scheduled services, thereby helping sister company Intasun to reduce its dependence on third party suppliers to provide it with often poor quality long-haul capacity.
In addition to the MD-11 order, Air Europe had outstanding orders for an additional 22 Boeing 757-200s, eight Boeing 737-400s and eleven Fokker 100.
Air Europe furthermore had signed a MoU with Airbus for an order of 40 A320 for delivery between 1995 and 1998 with options on another 40 aircraft, with planned deliveries to November 2001.
The new Fokker 100 fleet which I thought were very nice a/c, the first pair came from a cancelled KLM order in 1989 on PH- registrations.

I know we strayed O/T in a way from AE Ops in NCL, but this answers some of the Q's made by posters on here.....

[Mooncrest]

Air Europe used Leeds Bradford fairly early on its existence. No based aircraft but I remember seeing the 732s on W-patterns from and to Barcelona in 1980, just a year after launch. I don't think Barcelona lasted that long but by the summer of 1982 AE was twice-weekly to Palma (Thursday and Sunday), almost always using BMHG and BJFH. In 1983 we saw an ex-Maersk 732, BKRO, practically every Sunday and sometimes one of the leased Air Florida 732s graced us.

[SWBKCB]

rog747 - Interesting stuff. but having worked for Servisair at MAN, this bit raised an eyebrow -

Air Europe became a first rate charter airline, using brand new equipment from the outset and provided food and service that were reviewed to be comparable to scheduled carriers.

When they dropped the unused meals in our crew room, they were the same crap as everybody else had....

When I was working them, the only difference between Britannia, Orion and Air Europe was the colours. May have been different on the scheds out of LGW

And just to drag the thread even further off topic, anybody know why DanAir were handled by BA at MAN in the early eighties? Only charter airline to use them...

[N707ZS]

Teesside airport management somehow persuaded Air Europe to fly to Florida and Dominican Republic for a couple of seasons, very popular with the locals but for reasons unknown to me all dropped and not taken on by other tour company's when Air Europe closed.

[treadigraph]

Rog747, have you thought about doing a book on British Airlines? I seem to recall Air Britain or MCP or someone published a book many many years ago about British Independent Airlines, no idea if it was ever updated...

Suspect that with a few tales and so on it might run to several volumes though!

[rog747]

rog747 - Interesting stuff. but having worked for Servisair at MAN, this bit raised an eyebrow -
When they dropped the unused meals in our crew room, they were the same crap as everybody else had....
When I was working them, the only difference between Britannia, Orion and Air Europe was the colours. May have been different on the scheds out of LGW
And just to drag the thread even further off topic, anybody know why Dan Air were handled by BA at MAN in the early eighties?
Only charter airline to use them...



I do agree later on in years there was not much to note on the quality of charter meals between AE BY KG OM KT and AIH, although IEA were very good - nice outfit.
I never in my life had a HTML on a DA flight!
When AMM started up (as when Flying Colours did much later on) their charter meals were really top notch.

The AE hot meal quality was much better with the more upmarket Tour Co's, certainly out of LGW.
Air Europe introduced a separate Premier Class cabin at the front on its charter flights between Gatwick and Funchal which were flown for an upmarket Co, plus also to Heraklion Palma, and Faro for Travel Club Upminster who had a posh clientele, served Superior meals with Royal Doulton china, as seen on the first AE Schedules to GIB & PMI.
Kuoni also went for this on their longer haul AE 757 charters to Egypt, Mombasa, Goa. Maldives & Thailand, keeping the front cabin separate with the middle seat empty.
Same leg room though.

Businessmen were very impressed with Dan Air's superb Class Elite service - DA could have cleaned up at LGW had they really thought about it taking on flying their prime routes seriously. Dan-Air did not take the opportunity to boost the profitability of its scheduled operation by concentrating on maximising revenues from high-yield travellers.

I did not know that DA was handled at MAN by BA.
Servisair was then very much the big player at MAN.
Gatwick Handling Ltd did further establish itself in 1988 at Manchester and Stansted to begin ground handling at those airports.
Dan Air (GHL) then sold off its profitable Manchester GH Co.in January 1992.

Dan Air was a large handling agent at LGW from the 1960's (Previously Airborne Aviation did handling at Gatwick) then in 1972 Dan Air formed Gatwick Handling Ltd
GHL would be 50-50 jointly owned with Laker Airways (Discussions of tying with Caledonian Airways had stalled in 1970)
In 1982 when GK went under, NW & DL jointly bought GK's 50% share.

BAA allowed just 3 ground handling licenses at Gatwick.
The others were -
BEA (BA from 1974) handled many 3rd party airlines - such as TWA, ONA, SAM, Braniff, Inex Adria, plus Britannia & Wardair who had come over from Dan Air.
BUA also handled many 3rd party airlines including Spantax, TIA, Pan Am.
Caledonian Airways who were handled by Dan Air until their merger in 1971 with BUA, were to become BCAL who carried on the BUA handling.

This was the state of play until 1988 when BCAL was merged with BA who then gave all of the Gatwick South Terminal 3rd party handling over to Ogden Allied Aviation.
BA went to the North Terminal.
GHL started handling also in the North Terminal.
Air Europe forever wanting to harm Dan Air, cancelled it's handling contract with GHL in 1988 and went with Servisair, as did Britannia.
Air Europe then went to Ogden Aviation until AE's demise.
I am not sure exactly when Servisair came to Gatwick, but they took over Ogden Allied by mid 1990's.

Finally in 1993 BA sold their GHL share in full to Delta and Northwest.
In 1998 all the GH Co's were sold to Go Ahead Group, who then merged GH in 2001 with Midland Airport Services, British Midland Handling Services, and Reed Aviation.
In 2003 all these became Aviance.

After then I had lost the plot with so many new names appearing in the Handling business - Plane Handling, Aviance, Swissport, Reed, Menzies, Dnata (who are these people>?)

[ATNotts]

I thought the quality of catering on IT flights was largely dictated by the amount the tour operator wanted the carrier to spend on catering. I suppose though, that as tour operators and airlines became vertically integrated there were more opportunities to differentiate the catering product for both tour operator and airline.

[ATNotts]

Rog747, have you thought about doing a book on British Airlines? I seem to recall Air Britain or MCP or someone published a book many many years ago about British Independent Airlines, no idea if it was ever updated...

Suspect that with a few tales and so on it might run to several volumes though!

Used to have the full four volumes of the original British Independent Airlines written by Tony Merton-Jones. I believe it was updated some time later but never purchased the new edition.

I've always thought that a book devoted to the evolution of the UK inclusive business, from both the tour operator and airlines standpoint would be an interesting project for someone of Rog747's knowledge and experience of the industry.

[rog747]

I thought the quality of catering on IT flights was largely dictated by the amount the tour operator wanted the carrier to spend on catering. I suppose though, that as tour operators and airlines became vertically integrated there were more opportunities to differentiate the catering product for both tour operator and airline.

Yes, indeed absolutely -
Although when on a charter flight series the aircraft capacity/seats were sold & shared say between 2 or 3 or more Tour Companies they all got fed the same meal that the top payer had specified.
Then we started to go in to the hideous realms of some Tour Companies not wanting meals but some did, some paid, some did not - Again we catered the plane full and all pax usually got a meal. Even flew Laker several times as staff and everyone it seemed still got a full meal on a Skytrain service.

Things then really started to change (horribly) with the BoB ££ concept, which really was the start of the Race to the Bottom what we have now.

[treadigraph]

Businessmen were very impressed with Dan Air's superb Class Elite service - DA could have cleaned up at LGW had they really thought about it taking on flying their prime routes seriously. Dan-Air did not take the opportunity to boost the profitability of its scheduled operation by concentrating on maximising revenues from high-yield travellers.

Lucky enough to do at least one trip to Paris for the Salon sitting up the front of the bus (a 1-11 500) travelling with a friend who worked for DA. Seats presumably were standard but I do recall the food was definitely a cut above normal airline fare - on the return we had three seats so left the table down between us for parking cups and so on - the hosty serving the first course - smoked salmon - placed a plate on all three tables and since John didn't like smoked salmon, I ate all three - what a piglet!

[Twiglet1]

TEA UK put a 737-300 into NCL after AE demise (on a rotational basis). However the aircraft were delayed entry into service. So one week they put a 737-200 in. Tech stop @ EMA on way to TFS. Crew didn't have the balls to say the luggage was still in NCL.
As Rog747 would no doubt say "those were the days"

[PV1]

One of Air Europe’s last flights was a Boeing 757 from Orlando to Newcastle. We were asked to re-possess it on behalf of the Bank. Their esteemed London lawyer suggested we put an engineer on it when it tech stopped at Bangor! I discussed it with our lawyer who, by chance I was having dinner with, who pointed out they were asking us to hijack the aircraft which was illegal! Not wanting long jail terms we declined the appointment!

[SWBKCB]

I did not know that DA was handled at MAN by BA.
Servisair was then very much the big player at MAN.

Only two handling agents at MAN in those days, so BA did themselves, all the other flag carriers and DanAir, with Servisair to handle the riff-raff :O. All the baggage etc done by the council.... :eek:

[brakedwell]

I was in Bangor with my LGW crew when the 757 fleet manager phoned me in the early hours to tell me AE was finished and to tell me to get my crew back to Gatwick any way I could. My good friend was the Virgin Ops Director, who said we could have free seats back to LGW if we got ourselves to Newark. Unfortunately it started to snow heavily, so driving in hire cars was out. Eventually I managed to get very cheap seats on the Northwest DC10 from Boston to Gatwick for my crew plus a Manchester Crew. I sat next to an ex Laker flight attendant from the Man crew who had a very similar experience when Laker went bust! She was crying on my shoulder when we landed at Gatwick.

[anthbower1234]

Amazing reading gents its such a shame the diversity of the 80s and 90s chater ops is now long gone!

[rog747]

I was in Bangor with my LGW crew when the 757 fleet manager phoned me in the early hours to tell me AE was finished and to tell me to get my crew back to Gatwick any way I could. My good friend was the Virgin Ops Director, who said we could have free seats back to LGW if we got ourselves to Newark. Unfortunately it started to snow heavily, so driving in hire cars was out. Eventually I managed to get very cheap seats on the Northwest DC10 from Boston to Gatwick for my crew plus a Manchester Crew. I sat next to an ex Laker flight attendant from the Man crew who had a very similar experience when Laker went bust! She was crying on my shoulder when we landed at Gatwick.

We must have met at LGW as I was always out at the 757 departures especially the Long haulers...

I too had a similar 'gone-bust' moment.
Arrived LAX for a 5 day jolly on a £15 staff ticket Laker DC-10 30 in Feb 82.
Woke up at hotel next morning 4am (like you do) put TV on and boom - Laker has gone under.
I was in LA with my BA 747 FD pal who was on a 4 day trip staying with him in his hotel, I said blimey how do I get back>?
Had a fabulous 4 days in sunny California driving a hired Mustang, with visits to the Queen Mary and shown around the Douglas Aircraft factory both at LB.
Went to LAX with the BA crew going back on their rostered flight to LHR and the kindly older gentile BA Duty Officer guy there said Don't worry dear, just stay there I'll be back...
20 minutes later flight closed and he swanned back with a Super Club boarding card in his hand - Here you are duckie!
Awww he was lovely.

Many years later I was again at LAX with Virgin pals going back home after 2 hot weeks in Palm Springs and had just checked in for the second (and last of the day) VS A340 LHR flight and the check in guy said ''Shhh dont say anything the inbound aircraft from LHR has just landed and its TECH and will be AOG'' - just as our bags were disappearing down the belt....
He snatched back our J class boarding cards and lounge invite (sigh) and said go to the other desk to get Hotac and try again tomorrow night...
I said to the others lets try BA they have a 21.30 flight (it was now after 20.30) We had no ZED fare tickets only the VS staff freebies (worthless)
Clive went down to the baggage area to get our bags back as they were all coming up to collect...
The other VS pax had no yet been told of the cancellation...
Virgin's terminal at LAX is down one end of the road and BA was in Tom Bradley terminal up at the top - about a 10 minute walk or more...
So got to BA there and who was at the BA desk was the old chap from 1982, now very senior - We told him our debacle and he looked at our bits of worthless paper, and his face was a picture...

He said Virgin were starting to send him over their J pax to put on BA so we waited and waited then he came back about 6 times looking at the growing lines...Clive arrived sweating like a munshi with a trolley of bags......

Hopeless we thought we ain't gonna get on - Then out he flounced back again and said to the check in girls right Darlings that's it I'm closing it now...
Our hearts dropped - 2 minutes later he came back with our Boarding Cards for whole empty front row in Y but with loads of leg room - Sorry dears there's no movie - enjoy though!
Bless him xxxxx
He was a star - The days when we all helped each other out...

If any of you live down my way Dorset/SW and want to meet up for lunch etc then do Holla!
Might be some fun to reminisce lol

[Krystal n chips]

Only two handling agents at MAN in those days, so BA did themselves, all the other flag carriers and DanAir, with Servisair to handle the riff-raff :O. All the baggage etc done by the council.... :eek:

When AE commenced operations at MAN, Britannia did the engineering on certain registrations, Dan-Air did it on the others ....never sure as to why really

[rog747]

When AE commenced operations at MAN, Britannia did the engineering on certain registrations, Dan-Air did it on the others ....never sure as to why really

I wonder if it was the leased a/c?

The more I read lately it seems AE/Intasun attitude to the DA Board became really quite arch enemies - Seems slowly AE then began to take away its IT contracts from DA but also this included Engineering and Handling...

[GBYAJ]

TEA UK put a 737-300 into NCL after AE demise (on a rotational basis). However the aircraft were delayed entry into service. So one week they put a 737-200 in. Tech stop @ EMA on way to TFS. Crew didn't have the balls to say the luggage was still in NCL.
As Rog747 would no doubt say "those were the days"

this may explain another thing that’s kept me awake for years! I think G-BTEB only appeared the first week and was the only one with red UK in the titles. Every other week it was G-BTEC or G-BTED presumably as the first week had shown ‘EB couldn’t make it that far! (Was 1989).

[Gordomac]

Blimey ! What a read. As I said earlier, I had no idea we were out to "harm" Dan or that the antagonism persisted. "We" thought Dan was out to harm us (!)BA certainly was but again, as I said earlier, very clever dudes behind all this but very murky waters eh ? Glad to have been just an airframe driver but the hit ( I was at Gatters the day we ceased ops, wondering where me FO was and why the cabin crew on my trip were all in tears) was hard to take. Destined for the MD11, I had just sank a hefty chunk on a Volvo Estate for wife & kids and a Mini-Cooper for me. Drove the Cooper back to Brighton after popping into VA HQ to ask if there were any jobs and, according to Memsahib, just sat at the Kitchen breakfast bar for 8 hours, staring out the window !

About four doors down from me lived a DA 727 Skipper, can't remember his name, Dennis something, looked like a Viking Warrior. After my "For Sale" sign went up outside my house, bumped into him walking his Dog & he passionately remarked " Well, it was either you or us " !

Glad I was not embarking on a Summer Base at NCL. Would have been a very long drive home but less traumatic, perhaps, than your experience "Brakedwell".

Remember many Laker Stewies crying on my shoulder.................... but that's another story !.........................

[PV1]

Blimey ! What a read. As I said earlier, I had no idea we were out to "harm" Dan or that the antagonism persisted. "We" thought Dan was out to harm us (!)BA certainly was but again, as I said earlier, very clever dudes behind all this but very murky waters eh ? Glad to have been just an airframe driver but the hit ( I was at Gatters the day we ceased ops, wondering where me FO was and why the cabin crew on my trip were all in tears) was hard to take. Destined for the MD11, I had just sank a hefty chunk on a Volvo Estate for wife & kids and a Mini-Cooper for me. Drove the Cooper back to Brighton after popping into VA HQ to ask if there were any jobs and, according to Memsahib, just sat at the Kitchen breakfast bar for 8 hours, staring out the window !

About four doors down from me lived a DA 727 Skipper, can't remember his name, Dennis something, looked like a Viking Warrior. After my "For Sale" sign went up outside my house, bumped into him walking his Dog & he passionately remarked " Well, it was either you or us " !

Glad I was not embarking on a Summer Base at NCL. Would have been a very long drive home but less traumatic, perhaps, than your experience "Brakedwell".

Remember many Laker Stewies crying on my shoulder.................... but that's another story !.........................
As Lloyd’s Bank were principal bankers to Air Europe, BIA and Dan-Air they had a large role to play in destroying them all.

[Flightrider]

Newcastle 1985 charter programme:has no AE flying at NCL listed. It's fascinating to look back at some of the variety though:

Saturday evening with two JAT 727s and an Aviaco/Iberia A300 on the ground together from Pula, Dubrovnik and Palma
Britannia 767 following shortly afterwards on a late-night visit from Palma with two Aviaco DC9s also from Palma after that on Saturday evening/night
Sunday morning two Adria DC9s (Ljubljana and Pula), another Aviaco DC9 (Ibiza) and an Aeroflot TU154 on St Petersburg and Moscow charters
Monday Orion 737 positioning ex Glasgow for Corfu and back, another Aviaco DC9 (Mahon this time) and a Cyprus Airways 707 to/from Paphos
Wednesday morning Aviogenex TU134 from Pula, a Wednesday afternoon Cyprus Airways 707 to/from Larnaca this time, and another Aviogenex TU134 on Wednesday evening to/from Dubrovnik alongside an Air Atlantis 737 from/to Faro
Friday Aviogenex TU134 from Split, an Aviaco DC9 from/to Tenerife (long-haul in a DC9-34!!), a JAT DC9-32 to/from Rijeka and another Aviaco late night from/to Gerona

How times change! This was alongside the based Dan-Air and Britannia 737s with the Dan-Air 146 also doing weekend charters,

1988 for Newcastle had two based Britannia and two based Dan-Air 737-200s
Hispania 737 to/from Tenerife early hours of Saturday morning
JAT 727 on DBV-NCL-DBV Saturday morning
Dan-Air 1-11 MAH-NCL-MAH Saturday afternoon for Airtours
Spantax MD83 PMI-NCL-PMI Saturday afternoon for Intasun with a Hispania 733 following up for Horizon not long after
Paramount MD83 positioned in from BFS on Saturday night for a part-week programme
Universair 737 from Palma (Intasun) and Air Malta in together in the early hours of Sunday morning
Sunday morning Wardair 747, Aviogenex TU134 (Pula), Air Atlantis 727 (Faro), Adria DC9 (Split)
Sunday afternoon Dan-Air 1-11-500 from/to Faro for Airtours
Monday Worldways Canada DC8 from Toronto via Prestwick, Spantax 767 from/to Palma, Aviogenex TU134 from Ljubljana, Toros Air 727 to/from Izmir (Intasun again), Monarch 757 from/to Mahon, Britannia 767 from/to Gerona and an Air Atlantis 737 from/to Faro
Tuesday had no less than three Dan-Air 1-11s on W patterns from Mahon, Alicante and Palma!
Wednesday JAT DC9 from/to Pula, Aviogenex TU134 from/to Split, a Cyprus Airways A310 late night with a Britannia 767 on a very late night w from Alicante
Thursday BIA 1-11-500 from/to Faro, Adria DC9 from/to Pula and a JAT 737-300 from/to Dubrovnik
Friday Spantax 767 from/to Palma, a Dan-Air 1-11 from/to Ibiza, JAT DC9 on Pula, Orion 737 on a W pattern to Athens.
and still no Air Europe - but I think this was the year Spantax went bust so the 767s probably didn't happen, if I remember rightly?

1991 had a based IEA 737, three Britannia 737-200s, a part-based Dan-Air 727-200 and the Dan-Air 737-400 flying for Airtours and a part-based Air 2000 757 which did a 10-night Palma instead of positioning - that also flew some Bangor/Orlando flying and Monarch had a 757 coming through NCL on the same. Visitors including Aviogenex 737, Andalusair MD83, a ZAS Airlines of Egypt A300 which positioned up from Luton every Sunday for a Larnaca roundtrip for Owners Abroad, Air Atlantis 737-300, a Monday Air UK Leisure 737-400 from/to Corfu, Tuesday Nationalr 757 on Toronto, Thursday night Sultan Air 737 from/to Faro, two Royal Air Maroc flights on Friday night (727 Agadir and 737 on Tangier) and another Andalusair MD83 on Friday night from/to Palma.

[GBYAJ]

Newcastle 1985 charter programme:has no AE flying at NCL listed. It's fascinating to look back at some of the variety though:

Saturday evening with two JAT 727s and an Aviaco/Iberia A300 on the ground together from Pula, Dubrovnik and Palma
Britannia 767 following shortly afterwards on a late-night visit from Palma with two Aviaco DC9s also from Palma after that on Saturday evening/night
Sunday morning two Adria DC9s (Ljubljana and Pula), another Aviaco DC9 (Ibiza) and an Aeroflot TU154 on St Petersburg and Moscow charters
Monday Orion 737 positioning ex Glasgow for Corfu and back, another Aviaco DC9 (Mahon this time) and a Cyprus Airways 707 to/from Paphos
Wednesday morning Aviogenex TU134 from Pula, a Wednesday afternoon Cyprus Airways 707 to/from Larnaca this time, and another Aviogenex TU134 on Wednesday evening to/from Dubrovnik alongside an Air Atlantis 737 from/to Faro
Friday Aviogenex TU134 from Split, an Aviaco DC9 from/to Tenerife (long-haul in a DC9-34!!), a JAT DC9-32 to/from Rijeka and another Aviaco late night from/to Gerona

How times change! This was alongside the based Dan-Air and Britannia 737s with the Dan-Air 146 also doing weekend charters,

1988 for Newcastle had two based Britannia and two based Dan-Air 737-200s
Hispania 737 to/from Tenerife early hours of Saturday morning
JAT 727 on DBV-NCL-DBV Saturday morning
Dan-Air 1-11 MAH-NCL-MAH Saturday afternoon for Airtours
Spantax MD83 PMI-NCL-PMI Saturday afternoon for Intasun with a Hispania 733 following up for Horizon not long after
Paramount MD83 positioned in from BFS on Saturday night for a part-week programme
Universair 737 from Palma (Intasun) and Air Malta in together in the early hours of Sunday morning
Sunday morning Wardair 747, Aviogenex TU134 (Pula), Air Atlantis 727 (Faro), Adria DC9 (Split)
Sunday afternoon Dan-Air 1-11-500 from/to Faro for Airtours
Monday Worldways Canada DC8 from Toronto via Prestwick, Spantax 767 from/to Palma, Aviogenex TU134 from Ljubljana, Toros Air 727 to/from Izmir (Intasun again), Monarch 757 from/to Mahon, Britannia 767 from/to Gerona and an Air Atlantis 737 from/to Faro
Tuesday had no less than three Dan-Air 1-11s on W patterns from Mahon, Alicante and Palma!
Wednesday JAT DC9 from/to Pula, Aviogenex TU134 from/to Split, a Cyprus Airways A310 late night with a Britannia 767 on a very late night w from Alicante
Thursday BIA 1-11-500 from/to Faro, Adria DC9 from/to Pula and a JAT 737-300 from/to Dubrovnik
Friday Spantax 767 from/to Palma, a Dan-Air 1-11 from/to Ibiza, JAT DC9 on Pula, Orion 737 on a W pattern to Athens.
and still no Air Europe - but I think this was the year Spantax went bust so the 767s probably didn't happen, if I remember rightly?

1991 had a based IEA 737, three Britannia 737-200s, a part-based Dan-Air 727-200 and the Dan-Air 737-400 flying for Airtours and a part-based Air 2000 757 which did a 10-night Palma instead of positioning - that also flew some Bangor/Orlando flying and Monarch had a 757 coming through NCL on the same. Visitors including Aviogenex 737, Andalusair MD83, a ZAS Airlines of Egypt A300 which positioned up from Luton every Sunday for a Larnaca roundtrip for Owners Abroad, Air Atlantis 737-300, a Monday Air UK Leisure 737-400 from/to Corfu, Tuesday Nationalr 757 on Toronto, Thursday night Sultan Air 737 from/to Faro, two Royal Air Maroc flights on Friday night (727 Agadir and 737 on Tangier) and another Andalusair MD83 on Friday night from/to Palma.

wow, thanks, that’s a comprehensive update!! I remember standing at the dinnington end of the runway on a Saturday with those JAT 727’s taking off - the noise was immense!

Spantax - you are right they didn’t make it into summer 88 so instead it was a Caledonian tristar on Monday and Air Europa 757 on Friday. Andalusiair turned out to be Oasis.

[rog747]

wow, thanks, that’s a comprehensive update!! I remember standing at the dinnington end of the runway on a Saturday with those JAT 727’s taking off - the noise was immense!

Spantax - you are right they didn’t make it into summer 88.

I saw the Ref to Spantax 767 - That caught my eye - Plus I loved the 1985 and 1988 'May-Fly's' BTW

Yes they did go under just before the start of Summer 1988 leaving just 7000 pax stranded.
Plagued for years by financial troubles, an older inefficient fleet, poor safety record, & crew strikes, Spantax was sold to a finance group in Luxembourg in 1987.
The new owners committed an investment of up to 7 billion pesetas & Debts to the Spanish Govt. of 13 billion pesetas were reorganised over a twenty five-year period.
A fleet revamp and a new livery had already begun, with a fleet renewal program operating fifteen newer fuel efficient aircraft by 1993.
These attempts to revamp and refinance the airline, renew its fleet with McDonnell Douglas MD-83s, and negotiate with China Airlines for acquisition of Boeing 767s were all unsuccessful. A Kuwait Investment Co. withdrew from a planned offer to purchase the airline, thus Spantax ceased all operations on 29 March 1988.

Of all the original Spanish charter airlines such as TASSA, Air Spain, TAE, and Transeuropa, only Aviaco was left but they soon were to be fully integrated into parent Iberia.
Just the fledgling Air Europa, and soon to be Spanair would dominate, plus the many others who all would rise & then fall rather quickly.
Hispania bit the dust a year later in 1989.
Today only Air Europa is left, still flying, owned by IAG.

The BX 767's were never to be, sadly in Summer 1988.
Of the original BX fleet all of the dozen CV-990A's had already been stored at PMI to be scrapped.
3 DC-9 14's had been obtained from McDonnell Douglas from 1974, plus a pair of DC-9 32's, these by 1988 had now all been disposed of, although the 3 -14's did get the new Spantax livery.
A new type that was due to be introduced was the new DC-9 50 and SPANTAX ordered a pair of DC-9-50 aircraft
becoming the third airline to order this type of aircraft after SWISSAIR and AUSTRIAN, plus charter airline Inex Adria.
This order was later cancelled due to lack of finance, but another source says it is due to the inability of the aircraft to operate from the Canary Islands to Scandinavia non-stop, which was a key requirement for SPANTAX.
The original fleet of 3 DC8-61's had been returned. 2 of these hese aircraft were technically on the roster of American Airlines having acquired them when they took over Trans Caribbean Airlines, the other one was ex ONA, with GPA of Ireland now being the lessor.

They still had other leased DC-8 61's, plus leased 737-200 & DC-10's, including N1035F the fifth but NTU ship built for ONA.
Spantax had flown N1034F for a few years until its demise at AGP 9/1982 crashing after an RTO after V1.
Sister ship N1035F joined the BX fleet 2 weeks after the crash from Air Florida.

Spantax Boss, Captain Rodolfo Bay Wright gave serious consideration to operate the Concorde on routes from Northern Scandinavia to the Canaries, the Concorde could been flown supersonically, over water, almost all the way, passing over the top of Scotland, to the west of Ireland. The idea was to lease Concorde hours from one of the present operators, to have become the first company to offer supersonic IT packages, would indeed have been a major coup,
but the economics just didn't quite come out right. About 30 more seats in the Concorde was needed (over the 100) for the seat costs to look sensible stated Captain Bay in an interview.
In hindsight British Airways, who had already a booming charter business with it's Concordes, including Cunard QE2 JFK cruise charters, plus the high season scheduled leisure flights LHR to BGI Barbados could have reconfigured 1 or 2 charter/leisure aircraft dedicated with 130 seats and shared the flight hours with Spantax.
To save on empty legs BA Holidays Groups could have flown supersonic package holidays from LHR to the Canary Islands for the Brits - then a W pattern to/from Scandinavia then back to LHR. (HEL-LPA 2550 nm)

Although I am not sure if they could have reached BGI or JFK with 130 pax and bags non-stop? (JFK 3000 nm, BGI 3650 nm)
edit - the AF Concorde lost at CDG was overweight on Take Off with 100 cruise ship pax and bags...

Now we really have strayed into the unknown.............

[treadigraph]

The ONA DC-10s seem to have been dogged by misfortune.

[rog747]

The ONA DC-10s seem to have been dogged by misfortune.

Sadly of the 5 built for ONA only 1 remained. The first 4 were all delivered to ONA but the 5th was not.
ONA went bust on 14/9/1978 just days before N1035F was due to enter service.

N1031F Holidayliner America W/O Undershot landing IST 2/1976
Video of IST crash https://youtu.be/4adoK8nkhpE

N1032F Holidayliner Freedom W/O Bird strike RTO JFK 12/1975
Videos of JFK crash and from cockpit https://youtu.be/m83BIvDOqLQ
https://youtu.be/1kiifVK92NA

N1033F Holidayliner Enterprise sold to Korean Air 11/1978 W/O Collision on runway, taking off on wrong runway in fog ANC 11/1983
Video of ANC crash here https://youtu.be/57vfBBE9OH4

N1034F Holidayliner Liberty sold to SPANTAX 10/1978 W/O RTO after Vr AGP 9/1982
Video and simulation of AGP crash here https://youtu.be/oYjQ966Qhh4

N1035F Was it named?
ONA went under within days of delivery. No photos of N1035F exist in ONA colours but she f/f on 7/1978 so it must have been painted up for ONA.
The aircraft was sold to Seaboard World 10/1978 who then leased it to Loftleidir Icelandic. Then to Air Florida 1980. Then to Spantax 9/1982 to replace N1034F lost at AGP 2 weeks before.

Jet losses at Spantax
1970 Coronado at ARN to ZUR
3 engine ferry crashed just after take off 5F

1972 Coronado at Tenerife Los Rodeos to MUC
Just after take off the pilot initiated a steep turn at a height of 90 m and crashed just to the left and 325 m past the runway end having lost situational awareness and control in almost zero visibility. 155F

1973 Coronado MAD to LGW
Mid-air collision over Nantes with Iberia DC-9 PMI to LHR BX 0F IB 68F

1978 Coronado PMI to CGN
Pilots forgot to lower the landing gear at CGN and the aircraft slid down the runway for 1500m, resulting in the right wing and all 4 engines catching fire. Two AFS fire fighting vehicles who happened to be in the immediate vicinity were fighting the intense fire within 10 seconds, and probably prevented casualties in this accident. All 146 people on board escaped unharmed.
During initial approach to runway 32 at CGN the pilot experienced asymmetrical flaps and decided to land with flaps up. He then reduced power and silenced the gear warning horn. Shortly thereafter the engine no.3 reverser latch unlock light came on. Due to the excessive workload the crew forgot to lower the landing gear. 0F

1982 DC-10 30 AGP to JFK
RTO Severe vibration at or after Vr. The Pilot rejected the take off at 184 knots and the fully fuelled aircraft overran the runway at 110 knots and hit the ILS equipment, crossed the busy motorway, hit a small farm building and stopped 450 m after the end of the runway threshold and caught fire. The cause of the aborted takeoff was the severe vibration of the detachment of nose wheel retread 50F

In February 1976 an epidemic of typhoid broke out on SPANTAX flights from LPA to Helsinki and Germany.
One adult and one child died, and over two hundred of 253 passengers were hospitalized on the HEL flight.
Two Germans died with 385 sick of which 33 were in hospital in Germany.
Four flight crew members had typhoid infection which had also spread to passengers via egg salad served on board.
Spanish health authorities said that food prepared in Las Palmas and served aboard flights of the Spanish charter airline Spantax caused an outbreak of poisoning that affected hundreds of foreign tourists who had been holidaying in the Canary Islands.

(Don't have the fish)

[Mooncrest]

I believe Air Europe had a spotless safety record.

[rog747]

I believe Air Europe had a spotless safety record.

There was only one serious incident that could have been more unpleasant (thankfully not) was an Air Europe Fokker 100 PH-ZCL Dec 1989 that experienced dense flight deck smoke when landing in Copenhagen. It took off from Copenhagen to Gatwick and suffered a flight deck fire, necessitating an immediate return to Kastrup Airport. None of the 88 occupants (seven crew and 81 passengers) were harmed by the fire that had started behind the co-pilot's seat. The aircraft needed to be taken out of service and was sent for repairs elsewhere in the Netherlands. It re-entered service on 22 June 1990.

It's weird they entered servcie with AE when I was there - they got 2 new ones (unwanted by KLM) and 2 ordered for AE.
Whenever you went on board, apart from the new aeroplane smell you could always smell a sort of electrical burning. Funny that.

[Downwind_Left]

Another incident was the hard landing of 757 G-BLVH in 1987, resulting in significant structural damage to the nose landing gear and forward fuselage.

Air Europe 757 @ FNC (https://www.pprune.org/10495167-post33.html)

While I would not dispute AE had an excellent safety record, I would also point out they only operated for a little under 12 years and for early years were a fairly small airline compared to many of their longer lived and/or larger competitors.

[rog747]

Another incident was the hard landing of 757 G-BLVH in 1987, resulting in significant structural damage to the nose landing gear and forward fuselage.

Air Europe 757 @ FNC (https://www.pprune.org/10495167-post33.html)

AE had an excellent safety record,

Ah yes I forgot about that one, and Monarch also bent a 757 at GIB.

Also IIRC an AE or an Air Europa 757 had a tail scrape at TFS one night - Was that so?

[ATNotts]

Rog747

Significant thread drift, but I never realised that Spantax had such an abysmal safety record. I makes you understand just how much safer air travel is today than 50 years ago, yet even back then it was, quite rightly, touted as the safest means of transport. Any airline seriously bending as many aircraft, in proportion to their overall fleet size, today would have been out of business in no time. Unless they were in South America perhaps.

[Landflap]

ATN; Yes, h u g e drift. From AE at NCL to prangs at FNC. Interesting Stat provider (sorry, just can't wade through it all ) asks of 1985 "still no AE through NCL). I joined in 1983 and logged many "W" patterns through NCL. Indeed, Command Assessment trip was LGW-NCL-LGW in 1985. We were handled by DAN (hardly trying to see them off the turf ?) .

Just on the F100 issue, we all wondered about the fokker additions but history, if you really get into it, will show why. Indeed at one Staff/ Management meeting, I bravely stood up & asked why we were fielding a F100 on the Rome service against BA 767. Management clone, suspected BA plant retorted, "Well, better you just fly the planes and leave us to "manage ." I joined a steady group who walked out for fresh air.

Back on thread though; Passed the Assessment & went on to many NCL visits but we were never Based there. Pity. Loved the place. AE & NCL !

[GBYAJ]

Newcastle 1985 charter programme:has no AE flying at NCL listed. It's fascinating to look back at some of the variety though:

Saturday evening with two JAT 727s and an Aviaco/Iberia A300 on the ground together from Pula, Dubrovnik and Palma
Britannia 767 following shortly afterwards on a late-night visit from Palma with two Aviaco DC9s also from Palma after that on Saturday evening/night
Sunday morning two Adria DC9s (Ljubljana and Pula), another Aviaco DC9 (Ibiza) and an Aeroflot TU154 on St Petersburg and Moscow charters
Monday Orion 737 positioning ex Glasgow for Corfu and back, another Aviaco DC9 (Mahon this time) and a Cyprus Airways 707 to/from Paphos
Wednesday morning Aviogenex TU134 from Pula, a Wednesday afternoon Cyprus Airways 707 to/from Larnaca this time, and another Aviogenex TU134 on Wednesday evening to/from Dubrovnik alongside an Air Atlantis 737 from/to Faro
Friday Aviogenex TU134 from Split, an Aviaco DC9 from/to Tenerife (long-haul in a DC9-34!!), a JAT DC9-32 to/from Rijeka and another Aviaco late night from/to Gerona

How times change! This was alongside the based Dan-Air and Britannia 737s with the Dan-Air 146 also doing weekend charters,

1988 for Newcastle had two based Britannia and two based Dan-Air 737-200s
Hispania 737 to/from Tenerife early hours of Saturday morning
JAT 727 on DBV-NCL-DBV Saturday morning
Dan-Air 1-11 MAH-NCL-MAH Saturday afternoon for Airtours
Spantax MD83 PMI-NCL-PMI Saturday afternoon for Intasun with a Hispania 733 following up for Horizon not long after
Paramount MD83 positioned in from BFS on Saturday night for a part-week programme
Universair 737 from Palma (Intasun) and Air Malta in together in the early hours of Sunday morning
Sunday morning Wardair 747, Aviogenex TU134 (Pula), Air Atlantis 727 (Faro), Adria DC9 (Split)
Sunday afternoon Dan-Air 1-11-500 from/to Faro for Airtours
Monday Worldways Canada DC8 from Toronto via Prestwick, Spantax 767 from/to Palma, Aviogenex TU134 from Ljubljana, Toros Air 727 to/from Izmir (Intasun again), Monarch 757 from/to Mahon, Britannia 767 from/to Gerona and an Air Atlantis 737 from/to Faro
Tuesday had no less than three Dan-Air 1-11s on W patterns from Mahon, Alicante and Palma!
Wednesday JAT DC9 from/to Pula, Aviogenex TU134 from/to Split, a Cyprus Airways A310 late night with a Britannia 767 on a very late night w from Alicante
Thursday BIA 1-11-500 from/to Faro, Adria DC9 from/to Pula and a JAT 737-300 from/to Dubrovnik
Friday Spantax 767 from/to Palma, a Dan-Air 1-11 from/to Ibiza, JAT DC9 on Pula, Orion 737 on a W pattern to Athens.
and still no Air Europe - but I think this was the year Spantax went bust so the 767s probably didn't happen, if I remember rightly?

1991 had a based IEA 737, three Britannia 737-200s, a part-based Dan-Air 727-200 and the Dan-Air 737-400 flying for Airtours and a part-based Air 2000 757 which did a 10-night Palma instead of positioning - that also flew some Bangor/Orlando flying and Monarch had a 757 coming through NCL on the same. Visitors including Aviogenex 737, Andalusair MD83, a ZAS Airlines of Egypt A300 which positioned up from Luton every Sunday for a Larnaca roundtrip for Owners Abroad, Air Atlantis 737-300, a Monday Air UK Leisure 737-400 from/to Corfu, Tuesday Nationalr 757 on Toronto, Thursday night Sultan Air 737 from/to Faro, two Royal Air Maroc flights on Friday night (727 Agadir and 737 on Tangier) and another Andalusair MD83 on Friday night from/to Palma.


Ncl flyer (hope they don’t mind me mentioning) has a Twitter feed with lots of pictures at Newcastle from this era. Well worth a look.

[Gordomac]

Landflap : Got to join the "me too" brigade. Also did a Command "Training" line trip through NCL with AE but in 1982/3. Strange ,regular "w" pattern. LGW-NCL ; we got off. Another AE 737 would waltz in from somewhere, aircraft change and blast off in the one we brought up. After a further hour or so in the NCL transit lounge, we would then board and head for Gatters. Both LGW-NCL-LGW were empty sectors to facilitate the aircraft change at NCL. DAN did indeed carry out engineering for us at NCL and Serviceair for pax handling. Blimey, no wonder we went bust.

[bean]

What a waste. How many thousand quid did that cost i wonder?

[Landflap]

Mac : tongue in cheek of course. AE went on until 1992. Outsourcing Engineering and handling often causes this sort of thing. Commercial Planning/Engineer Planning and outsourced activity can cause a major head-ache. But hey (?) that's why we fly the planes and Management manage eh ? - See my post =45= .

[WHBM]

Used to have the full four volumes of the original British Independent Airlines written by Tony Merton-Jones. I believe it was updated some time later but never purchased the new edition.
This is indeed British Independent Airlines 1945-75 by Tony M-J, also longstanding editor of Propliner magazine. Originally in 4 paperbacked A4 volumes. It was later reprinted in a single hardback volume with new colour photos, but the actual text is the same. Published by Aviation Hobby Shop in West Drayton. Long ago a follow up was proposed, but I don't think it ever happened. I believe Tony was a CAA staffer at Swanwick and had access to all the records.

Air Europe was owned by Harry Goodman, who also owned Intasun/ILG, I believe managed all along from their start-up HQ in Ramsbottom, north of Manchester. Goodman used Dan-Air a lot and found two of their key executives had fallen out with Fred Newman because they wanted new aircraft and Newman was fine, as ever, with secondhand, so that was the start of the airline. At first they had some tie-up with BA, and some of the initial 757s went back and forth between the two - including an Air Europe 757 that became a semi-regular on the Manchester-Heathrow BA Shuttle for some time. The MD-11 order with Rolls-Royce engines is perplexing; was the order ever confirmed, and were either McDD or RR wholly behind the project ? If nothing else it would have been difficult to get financing on them, the lessors would have been cautious about being left with an orphan fleet on their hands.

Before AE started they were principal users of Dan-Air, indeed taking night flights left over when the bulk of the capacity had been sold. They did the same with Transeuropa, a Spanish Caravelle charter operator of the late 1970s, which put them into various UK airports for 2am departures. German tour operators apparently refused to have UK-style night IT flights - 6am first departures or midnight returns, OK, but not midnight departures and 6am returns, so there was space in what Transeuropa had sold (principally to Germany).

Back to the title, if I'm not mistaken ILG had bought out Airways Holidays, the major Newcastle-based tour operator of the time, who traditionally had chartered Tridents from Northeast (I nearly said BKS, and they possibly went back that far), so had a considerable established customer base. Northeast Newcastle-based Tridents used to do a morning business trip to Heathrow and back, then a short daytime IT to the Med, then another Heathrow rounder in the evening, and finally another night IT to Palma or wherever. I guess Air Europe inherited much of this customer base.

Once met (as you do) a holiday rep in the Canaries who had been lead rep there for ILG in their time; she described the amazing circus that came when Goodman arrived each year to negotiate with the hotel owners about next year's rates, with the local and other reps, plus a couple of AE flight attendants, all in uniform sat surrounding him ...

[GBYAJ]

Really interesting WHBM, And just to corroborate the above, my first flight NCL to PMI on a Transeuopa caravelle through the night (left uk at midnight, returned 11pm) with one of the tour operators mentioned. Too young to remember anything about it but have a picture of inside the cabin, before window blinds there were lovely orange curtains which I suspect were a fire risk....

[SWBKCB]

Do you mean Tae rather than Trans-Europa? Tae mainly did Germany and only turned up in the UK at odd times

[GBYAJ]

Do you mean Tae rather than Trans-Europa? Tae mainly did Germany and only turned up in the UK at odd times


definitely TransEuropa if directed at me! Can’t answer if not! My parents kept the in flight meal (cold) as I’d fallen asleep so we had a little plastic tray with the TransEuropa and their “T” on for years after. Also cross checked about 10 years later against Air North “magazines” for 1979.

[Flightrider]

The MD-11 order with Rolls-Royce engines is perplexing; was the order ever confirmed, and were either McDD or RR wholly behind the project ? If nothing else it would have been difficult to get financing on them, the lessors would have been cautious about being left with an orphan fleet on their hands.

I think you'll find that the MD11s being powered by RR engines in the first place underpinned the financing arrangements for the aircraft. I'm not 100% sure of this, but believe there were some reverse pre-delivery payments (the engine manufacturer paid the airline more than it had to pay to the manufacturer in up-front deposits and payments for the aircraft). It was an "interesting" financing arrangement but typical of some of the AE fleet financing arrangements which were....ground-breaking, shall we say.

[WHBM]

Do you mean Tae rather than Trans-Europa? Tae mainly did Germany and only turned up in the UK at odd times
No, TAE (Trabajos Aereos y Enlaces, or something like that) was a separate and smaller operation, I recall vaguely they only had two or three old Caravelles, came from Sterling, possibly only leased, after making the transition from the DC6, and indeed were not around in the UK much at all. Both TAE and Transeuropa operated the newer, less common, Super Caravelle, stretched and with P&W engines; Transeuropa actually bought some new ones, and had run subcontract flights for Iberia with the aircraft in Iberia's colours for a while.

[rog747]

definitely TransEuropa if directed at me! Can’t answer if not! My parents kept the in flight meal (cold) as I’d fallen asleep so we had a little plastic tray with the TransEuropa and their “T” on for years after. Also cross checked about 10 years later against Air North “magazines” for 1979.

TAE were not that regular in to the UK, (they had super Caravelles and DC8's and flew mainly Spain/Canaries to Germany and Scandinavia)

whereas Transeuropa (flying 10R & 11R Caravelles) were frequent at many UK regionals, as were Spantax, Air Spain, and TASSA at the very start, along with Aviaco.

Re Airways Holidays in the North East - they certainly were using BKS on their package holiday flights from the early 1960's from NCL, LBA and MME (Brits and Viscounts).
They were mostly only flown at weekends and night time.
They of course used the new BKS Tridents from NCL and MME from summer 1969 along with a few other tour operators such as Global, but again mostly at weekends.

Swans Tours of Oxford St in London also became a large Northeast Trident operator for their IT MED charters from LHR, again mainly flown on SATS & SUNS but with some mid week flights as well including night flights from LHR. They were so busy that at summer peaks sometimes 3 or all 4 of their Trident fleet were being used.
Swans also flew a large SKI program too in the winter at weekends with Northeast from LHR to MUC ZRH MXP & TUR