BA @ Edinburgh shambles this evening.

[olster]

Ahead of schedule currently routing direct to the final approach crowed the captain of the inbound flight to Edinburgh this evening. More verbiage about how early we were as we arrived on stand. 55 minutes later we were finally released and we listened to a litany of excuses. Apparently due to I kid you not, covid of course, there was only one set of steps @ Edinburgh and these were nowhere to be found. The lad behind me mildly enquired and complained to the senior cabin crew and was barked at in return ‘to not take his frustration out on the staff’. Very precious and unjustified. Having enjoyed a packet of crisps and a bottle of water as our in flight ‘refreshment’ I can only say that the former national carrier is a national embarrassment. Yes I know times are tough but really.

[ICEHOUSES]

Well the last time I flew BA 10 years ago in club LGW to Naples, we HAD to ask the cabin crew to get up and serve us a drink and food after being airborne 50 mins, cabin crew were very rude and lazy the whole flight, I’ve never flown BA ever again after this terrible service.

[CabinCrewe]

I've heard worse shambles to be honest, all things considered...

[RealFish]

Ahead of schedule currently routing direct to the final approach crowed the captain of the inbound flight to Edinburgh this evening. More verbiage about how early we were as we arrived on stand. 55 minutes later we were finally released and we listened to a litany of excuses. Apparently due to I kid you not, covid of course, there was only one set of steps @ Edinburgh and these were nowhere to be found. The lad behind me mildly enquired and complained to the senior cabin crew and was barked at in return ‘to not take his frustration out on the staff’. Very precious and unjustified. Having enjoyed a packet of crisps and a bottle of water as our in flight ‘refreshment’ I can only say that the former national carrier is a national embarrassment. Yes I know times are tough but really.

How were you going to be 'released' without the steps being there? Climb off the wing? (Mind you is the US it's been know for a disgruntled, impatient passenger to pull the emergency chute).

[JinjaNinja21]

Your issue is wholly the responsibility of Edinburgh airport and Menzies, BA has absolutely no control over the ground staff there who deal with that, how many steps there are, or even where the steps are on the airfield. Something you should bear in mind before blaming any carrier.


Ahead of schedule currently routing direct to the final approach crowed the captain of the inbound flight to Edinburgh this evening. More verbiage about how early we were as we arrived on stand. 55 minutes later we were finally released and we listened to a litany of excuses. Apparently due to I kid you not, covid of course, there was only one set of steps @ Edinburgh and these were nowhere to be found. The lad behind me mildly enquired and complained to the senior cabin crew and was barked at in return ‘to not take his frustration out on the staff’. Very precious and unjustified. Having enjoyed a packet of crisps and a bottle of water as our in flight ‘refreshment’ I can only say that the former national carrier is a national embarrassment. Yes I know times are tough but really.

[deja vu]

To think they once ran an empire on which the sun never set.

[VariablePitchP]

Ahead of schedule currently routing direct to the final approach crowed the captain of the inbound flight to Edinburgh this evening. More verbiage about how early we were as we arrived on stand. 55 minutes later we were finally released and we listened to a litany of excuses. Apparently due to I kid you not, covid of course, there was only one set of steps @ Edinburgh and these were nowhere to be found. The lad behind me mildly enquired and complained to the senior cabin crew and was barked at in return ‘to not take his frustration out on the staff’. Very precious and unjustified. Having enjoyed a packet of crisps and a bottle of water as our in flight ‘refreshment’ I can only say that the former national carrier is a national embarrassment. Yes I know times are tough but really.

Which will clearly have had absolutely nothing to do with BA and everything to do with the handlers. What do you want the flight crew to do, make some steps out of bits of plastic they can find in the flight deck?

[4468]

Not that I am or wish to be any apologist for BA. The company (though not many of the employees!) deserve to go to hell in a handcart! But it doesn’t sound like your problems had anything to do with the airline.

Do be sure to take your ire out on the right target!

On this occasion that would be Edinburgh airport. Since I presume BA have outsourced their handling there on the altar of ‘cost saving’!

Incidentally. Perhaps the majority of passengers should ask themselves how much they paid for a ticket, and how that can possibly be a half or a third of what it was ten years ago?

Just a thought??!

[olster]

Sorry, but I obviously did not explain well enough so let me clarify. I am well aware that it is the outsourced handling company that provides ancillary equipment. Ironiquement I have been in exactly the same position at the sharp end of a leisure airline B737 prior to my retirement. This happened more than once and I was unsurprisingly based @EDI.The only difference was that I was not on the PA every 20 seconds plus personal appearance in front of the passengers ad nauseam. Sometimes less is more.I know that it is not the flight crew fault but the self aggrandisement on the PA coupled with snippy cabin crew and combined with the water, crisps and face masks add up to a miserable experience. And we were imprisoned for 55 minutes due organisational issues which I would have thought a ‘superior ‘ product such as BA could have provided. Yes I know it is not the worst shambles in the world but it is not good either. Hope that helps.

[FRatSTN]

You mention also that you arrived early, in which case it's not unreasonable to expect the handling agent to not be there ready to meet you. In normal times, it's a big challenge for the more capacity constrained airports and the handlers, one in which the airlines have little care about and see arriving half an hour early as job well done. You're lucky you maybe wouldn't be able to get on stand even in such a situation.

You can argue to the cows come home about whose to blame, or even the whole blame culture for that matter. But at the end of the day, the airports and handlers can only plan to schedule with the limited resource the airlines fundamentally are willing to pay the cost towards. Unless you're a CDM airport (which only a handful besides the main hub airports are currently) with better insight on real targeted times, it's not a situation likely to improve anytime soon. And of course understandably, the resource provision will be rock bottom at the moment for all the right reasons.

Of course it's frustrating for the customer, and I won't pretend that what you describe is an acceptable level of service. But unless it's something you're passionate enough about to take up with the airline, who will inevitable direct you to their handling agent, who will then pass you onto the airport or even back to the airline, you may just be best to take it on the chin and move on.

[keep_er_lit]

[QUOTE=olster;10901499]Ahead of schedule currently routing direct to the final approach crowed the captain of the inbound flight to Edinburgh this evening. More verbiage about how early we were as we arrived on stand. 55 minutes later we were finally released and we listened to a litany of excuses. Apparently due to I kid you not, covid of course, there was only one set of steps @ Edinburgh and these were nowhere to be found. The lad behind me mildly enquired and complained to the senior cabin crew and was barked at in return ‘to not take his frustration out on the staff’. Very precious and unjustified. Having enjoyed a packet of crisps and a bottle of water as our in flight ‘refreshment’ I can only say that the former national carrier is a national embarrassment. Yes I know times are tough

First world problems hey?

[easyflyer83]

One of those things, it happens unfortunately. I see nothing wrong with the flight crew announcing you were arriving ahead of schedule, a bag of crisps and a water on such a short flight is more complimentary than you’d have ever got pre-Covid and if the senior crew member sniped, I’d hazard a guess the lads enquiry was a little more than just “mild”.

[stonejo]

Another thing to take into consideration is that the handling agents are almost certainly running on reduced manpower and where busy serving another aircraft at that time considering you where early.
As to the crew announcing things too often,it was probably to keep everyone seated. If there where no announcements people would have been complaining of being kept in the dark.

[rog747]

BA mainline ''shuttle'' into EDI... (I am assuming here it was from LHR?)

Firstly I would have thought the Legacy London flight would have been put on a Jetty.
EDI is hardly busy these days surely?

Second even though ground handling in the main today is outsourced a delay of 55 minutes for a set of steps is beyond pathetic - There is hardly any excuse for this unless the whole ramp crew suddenly died or they all tested positive for Covid -19!
EDI is not some tiny little Greek island airport - one set of steps LOL
Doesn't matter what you paid for your ticket or if you used Avios,
Flight time is not much more than 55 mins - then a 55 mins wait to get off! Unacceptable, and I would have expected the Station Manager wanting to know why and without tea or any biscuits offered to the GH boss.

Obsequious Self congratulating PA's by the FD and/or the CC always make my stomach churn. Just be honest with the Pax - Yes this event was not the Crews' fault but the skipper surely
could have offered a better response to the cabin?

Of course we have no aircraft types today with built in airstairs - Back in the day we had DC-9 1-11 and 727 and even the old BEA Vanguard, all capable of basically being self handled
The Tridents although, needed all the kit to get off the plane if no Jetty.

[LTNman]

Another EDI shambles here as passengers rush to exit an Easyjet flight on Thursday. https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-man-takes-photo-crush-19080890

[olster]

Thanks Rog747, you get it. I am aware that compared to the rest of the world issues this is not top of the pile. This is not a ‘first world problem’ but it is still an unacceptable level of service from the former world favourite. Also to blame covid for one set of steps is Alice in wonderland stuff. My point would be that the Walsh / Cruz combo have reduced a famous airline to a husk of its former self. This is an aviation forum and I am just relating my experience. I am too lazy to complain officially so I am venting here. And on reflection this morning, the customer behind me,a jovial Scottish lad did nothing to warrant being barked at. Taking offence now the default position in modern society.

[wiggy]

Sadly last time I looked it's mostly down to what 4468 says ^^...

The days when BA to threw cash at a problem to solve it have long gone; a year or more back they wouldn't do it, now with cashflow as it is my guess is they feel they can't do it.

I can't speak for EDI itself but that line of thought has meant the demise at many station of the likes of the dedicated BA uniformed/badged station manager rog747 describes, many of whom took pride in ensuring "their" station performed as well as possible and certainly would be straight onto the GH if their flight was delayed inbound and/or outbound.

As for the PA's...I'm fully in alignment with those that hate self congratulatory PA's (and I was always aware you were holding yourself hostage to fortune if you started predicting an early arrival too soon) but the teaching at BA certainly was that in unusual situations the passengers need to hear something from the front end on a frequent basis, even if the something was "I have no news of an improvement in our situation". :ooh:

[caaardiff]

Another EDI shambles here as passengers rush to exit an Easyjet flight on Thursday. https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-man-takes-photo-crush-19080890

Just because it happened at EDI doesn't make it an "EDI shambles". It's hardly Edinburgh Airports fault this happened and probably happens on many flights around the world every day. It's more an "EZY shambles" if the crew weren't proactive in getting people to remain seated.

With regards to the original complaint, it would be interesting to know if any other flights at EDI at the time were delayed. I can imagine handlers are on skeleton staff to enable social distancing within crew rooms etc. If they were stuck on another delayed aircraft, it's a perfectly logical explanation (which in normal times would still happen but be totally unacceptable, but in current times may well be a more common occurance)

[willy wombat]

Shame on you airline people posting above telling pax it’s not the airline’s fault, blame the handling agent. Who appoints and (hopefully) monitors the handling agent? That would be the airline. Average passenger doesn’t draw a distinction between the airline and the handling agent and airlines by and large understand that. I used to travel a lot through EDI, but haven’t since March and the place used to be a shambles because it was too busy. Now it sounds like a shambles because it’s too quiet.

[Cornish Jack]

the Walsh / Cruz combo have reduced a famous airline to a husk of its former self.
The 'shambles' started way before that - when 'gottle 'o geer' and his 'vent' decided to outsource everything in sight and handed over to their aptly named successor to continue the slide. The arrival of the gabby Irishman and the British enthusiasm for anything cheap and nasty ensured that the 'drift' became a race to the bottom. Ultimately the customer dictates the quality - given that such is placed above price.
'Cost of everything, value of nothing' mentality?

[easyflyer83]

Shame on you airline people posting above telling pax it’s not the airline’s fault, blame the handling agent. Who appoints and (hopefully) monitors the handling agent? That would be the airline. Average passenger doesn’t draw a distinction between the airline and the handling agent and airlines by and large understand that. I used to travel a lot through EDI, but haven’t since March and the place used to be a shambles because it was too busy. Now it sounds like a shambles because it’s too quiet.

In fairness this is a forum for pilots and airline personnel so that kind of thing is going to happen. Indeed, there will have been an internal apportion of blame when it came to categorising the delay in question.

For me personally, it just came across as a pure attack on BA. I think some of the comments about the pilot(s) being “self congratulating” are unfair when the chances are it was probably a simple “we are expecting to arrive ahead of schedule” statement. I was on a BA flight just the other day that arrived early and it was just announced as a simple fact by the Captain.

Now, 55 minute delay in disembarking is not great at all, and somewhere someone will have to account for that delay such is the process within an airline. I see nothing to suggest that this is a regular occurrence at BA. I’ve flown 8 sectors with them this year, more last year and haven’t experienced this.

In my opinion the delay, however frustrating, was being used as a stick to beat BA for the OP’s misgivings and dislike the airline it is today. It’s had to adapt to compete, certainly within Europe, and I don’t agree with all cost cuttings it has made, certainly on long haul. Some of the measures on the latter were reversed pre-Covid though.

[judge11]

Even pre-CV, airports have never been able to cope with 'early'. It is an anathema.

Run late or cancel - that is what the system expects and is geared to.

And bear in mind as well, handling agents' ground staff was pared to the bone even during normal operations. Out-of-hours and you were flogging a dead gorse if one had been even rostered.

[olster]

I agree with you Cornish J. I have lived and worked in sunny and humid climes in my nomadic career. The sight of a British Airways B747 would bring an admittedly metaphorical lump to the throat and a welcome reminder of home. All this was played upon with the misty eyed farewell to the magnificent 747 this week. Unfortunately this only served to highlight the difference between those days and the modern reality. I suppose it was this juxtaposition that precipitated my (I think justifiable) rant. Cheers.

[SWBKCB]

Another thing to take into consideration is that the handling agents are almost certainly running on reduced manpower and where busy serving another aircraft at that time considering you where early.


I was thinking the same, but looking at FR24 presumably this was BA1458 due at 19.25 which is shown as landing at 19.05?

The only flight for an hour either side was BA8708, also due at 19.25 which landed at 19.11. Usual caveat of this being FR24 data.

[BA318]

It happens a lot. Last Monday I flew ARN-LHR on BA. We landed 25 mins early and the pilot came on and said that we’ll now need to wait here on the taxiway for 15-20mins because our gate is busy. BA pilots are usually decent about it and more often than not just as p***ed off as the rest of us.

[olster]

Rest assured regardless of FR info we were sat there for 55 minutes.

[Jack D]

Avoid , Avoid ! Although when flying to EDI
there probably isn’t much choice for the passenger as to what carrier to use.

The only saving grace is that BA have a good safety record and that’s important.
Otherwise the passenger experience is mediocre in all classes , and we all know why.

[olster]

Plus FR data may say the landing and on blocks time but it doesn’t tell you when the one set of steps arrive.

[GoEDI]

I was thinking the same, but looking at FR24 presumably this was BA1458 due at 19.25 which is shown as landing at 19.05?

The only flight for an hour either side was BA8708, also due at 19.25 which landed at 19.11. Usual caveat of this being FR24 data.

There was also another LHR on the deck (BA1452/1455). I can only assume Menzies have not adequately prepared for the recent frequency increases by BA, and are still running things too short with staff furloughs to be able to deal with 3 turnarounds at the same time...

[ivor toolbox]

I expect the main reason for the lack of ground equipment being provided in a timely fashion is this

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/24/aviation-services-firm-swissport-to-cut-more-than-4500-uk-jobs-coronavirus

Thousands of people in the Aviation sector are losing their jobs because the bottom has fallen out of the market, governments have barred travel to other countries, and within their own borders, and you decide to have a rant. Well done.

Ttfn

[esa-aardvark]

Unfortunately in the modern world systems are often designed with lots
of cracks in the woodwork for problems to fall down. Blame becomes a pass-the-parcel game.

[olster]

Cheers aptly named toolbox. I happen to be one of those aviation employees losing their job. But hey why not make a pointless bitchy remark when you don’t know me or my circumstance? Either way to sit imprisoned on an A320 for 55 minutes waiting for the one set of steps is unacceptable covid crisis or not. I started this thread thinking that surely for once most people could have consensus that this is not good or even normal service from one of Britain’s most well known companies. But of course this is the internet where everyone can pile in.

[TotalBeginner]

I don't blame the cabin crew for barking, what do they honestly expect them to do? They might apologise, but what does that achieve? Steps won't come any quicker! If someone is dissatisfied write in, email, leave a terrible review, take your money elsewhere; having a pop at the cabin crew over something that is completely out of their control just to show off/vent is quite frankly immature.

[AircraftOperations]

Do BA even have Station Managers based at their UK regional bases anymore? Or is it done remotely from LON?

I am always surprised how many drivers don't realise that arriving ahead of schedule (at least at busy airports in busy times) can be as complicated for the airport and handler to accommodate than being the same amount behind schedule.

[The96er]

Do BA even have Station Managers based at their UK regional bases anymore? Or is it done remotely from LON?

All BA regional Managers are long gone. As for the incident it's self, I suspect a combination of reduced staff on the ground handler (Menzies) due furlough, and also, which has not been mentioned is that most Handlers rent equipment, steps etc.. and a huge chunk of that has been returned to the owners to save cash meaning the guys and gals on the ground are having to use even less equipment than they would normaly have baring in mind that even in normal times, they don't have enough equipment.

[Momoe]

Bottom line - 55 minute wait on stand is unacceptable.

Made worse by flight crew raising expectations, reasonable to expect that flight crew know that arriving early needs to be co-ordinated with handling agent.
Flight crew could have ameliorated problem by advising that there will be an unfortunate wait for ground equipment, having raised expectations, it's unfair to expect CC to deal with outcome.

Could easily have been handled better. Some folk on this forum need resist getting their tuppence worth in and be honest with themselves, who wouldn't have been irritated under the circumstances as described?

[unmanned_droid]

The next gen single aisle could well come with airstairs or a floor low enough such that you only need a step. Still, there are further problems from then on - no ones getting off if there isn't a bus or ground staff to control passengers.

[4468]

The next gen single aisle could well come with airstairs or a floor low enough such that you only need a step. Still, there are further problems from then on - no ones getting off if there isn't a bus or ground staff to control passengers.
Precisely.

Things that were possible in days of yore, no longer are! To rail against that is simply life shortening!

It’s where price comparison sites and the pursuit of ‘cheapest’ gets us. All mixed in with a hefty dose of ‘elf n safety’ and ‘security‘. Get used to the brave new world. You’ll live longer, if less satisfactorily!

[easyflyer83]

Bottom line - 55 minute wait on stand is unacceptable.

Made worse by flight crew raising expectations, reasonable to expect that flight crew know that arriving early needs to be co-ordinated with handling agent.
Flight crew could have ameliorated problem by advising that there will be an unfortunate wait for ground equipment, having raised expectations, it's unfair to expect CC to deal with outcome.

Could easily have been handled better. Some folk on this forum need resist getting their tuppence worth in and be honest with themselves, who wouldn't have been irritated under the circumstances as described?

I think few are saying that passengers should just suck it up. Flight crew raising expectations is just rubbish. Fact was they were going to arrive early, they were keeping the passengers updated as per their role. A plane cannot run to a bus style timetable (although you’d think they could given the very precise schedules in the US) and arriving early is sometimes unavoidable.

[Jack D]

I don't blame the cabin crew for barking, what do they honestly expect them to do? They might apologise, but what does that achieve? Steps won't come any quicker! If someone is dissatisfied write in, email, leave a terrible review, take your money elsewhere; having a pop at the cabin crew over something that is completely out of their control just to show off/vent is quite frankly immature.

I,m not sure anybody had a “ pop” at the cabin crew , at least it’s not been described as such.

An apology, although ineffective in terms of influencing the prompt arrival of the ground equipment, is always welcome . After all the cc are the pax facing representatives of the company, an apology and a truthful explanation can effectively calm things down.

Most sensible people realize it is not the crew,s fault, but becoming all “ defensive” is a poor show and a sad reflection on the calibre of some employees .

[rog747]

Even our Tristars of 1973 ''vintage'' had their own airstairs and built-in on board bulk baggage conveyors -
The 1-11's had front & rear stairs, all had a nice punchy APU so all you needed was a low flat bed baggage truck for the bags and a few lads of 'bulk' muscle - although sometimes we had to load the bags ourselves with the FD & the CC helping out if it all went tits up down route and ''El we no-worko, Manana'' was in force.

To the OP I would complain especially, even if you (like me) are a lowly Blue BA Exec Club member - I would want/expect 10-15000 Avios deposited in my account for the inconveniences.
10 minutes to wait for steps is bad enough, but almost an hour's wait on an hours flight is wholly almost inexcusable, and unacceptable.

I had 2 instances of shocking ground handling on BA Club Europe flights going back to LHR both at Mykonos airport (Swissport) in the past 2 summers and I made constructive non-whining complaints to the No.1 CC who dealt with and recorded the matter superbly (hence that is why I fly BA) plus a follow up email to C-R and I got 10 and 15000 miles on each occasion.

How we boarded and loaded planes in the old days - Part 1

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/250x192/airstairs_f3179f0cbd02e72f3087a7ad7a2cd09756a116b8.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x577/11902376_800187770097967_7835463430173879306_n_a9ccdb8a29835 2c681b838cb157977f3e48589ea.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x584/11885402_800187820097962_5407848602757442059_n_195d47cb8cd7a c37a71d2ef9caa9d172417e1f19.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x571/11885224_800187713431306_7721334502053172055_n_13f2f6ab6fa1c 197f27775e7566eeab559ebf61b.jpg



How we boarded and loaded planes in the old days - Part 2



https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x600/null_zpsb2e21664_612b41bc8d5a25ed4007a95d6b5673f35a9be5c5.jp g

BA had left their steps in the way so our DC-9 could not go forward on to the Jetty - we lowered the airstairs

If we had moved the BA steps they would have kicked off - If we had called BA Ramp on the phone and waited for their chaps to come out (from their dens 50 yards away) and move them we would have waited ummm for ages...
We would call BAA Ramp Ops and report the misdemeanor of BA leaving equipment on stand.

[SLF3]

If you want passengers to come back you have to provide a service that makes it worth the effort. The current litany of delays, cancellations, crap service, Hidden charges, delayed refunds, surly staff etc. won’t encourage this. Yes, we have noticed, and we tell our friends.

BA are self harming.

[4468]

If you want passengers to come back you have to provide a service that makes it worth the effort. The current litany of delays, cancellations, crap service, Hidden charges, delayed refunds, surly staff etc. won’t encourage this. Yes, we have noticed, and we tell our friends.

BA are self harming.

The management of BA don’t care. The ONLY thing they are interested in is short term cost cutting, and their associated reward. (bonus) They don’t give a monkey’s whether you ever fly BA again. Truth is on a number of routes there is little competition.

Their nirvana is to eliminate BA completely, but amass a personal fortune in the process.

The reason some of the best staff in the industry can seem surly with customers is they see the destruction of BA on a daily basis, and have no more apologies left in their hearts!

That is unless you are talking about some of the cheapest staff in the industry. In which case you sometimes get exactly what you paid for!

Stop complaining (It’s useless!) and fly with any other airline whenever you can.

[Tom777]

To the OP, apologies you had to wait to disembark. To add a little to explain the current situation. Currently planned block times and schedules are based on this season last year when life was somewhat different. The 30 minute taxi out from LHR is now probably nearer 5/10 due to the complete lack of traffic, all the short-haul aircraft are planned at flying cost index 0 (basically most efficient speed, which is slower than normal) but that will still end up with most short haul aircraft arriving early at the moment. Short of delaying departure on stand, there's not much more we can do. Flying back at min clean speed would quickly earn a shoeing from ATC! We could delay departure but then any unexpected incident - fox on runway, tug brake down, runway inspection etc etc (you know how it is!) would eat to us then being late which would probably irk passengers even more if we'd deliberately delayed the departure. So unfortunately we'll probably be early more often than not at the moment. Outsourcing is rubbish as it means that you are at the mercy of contractors but that's the way of the industry at the moment. To compete on price you have to go down that road and as much as I'd love it if we still had our own staff in all out stations (bloody good people who were cast adrift because the industry changed) but if we did then we'd probably have gone under already. The contractors are all suffering as well - most of their business has gone and they are operating skeleton staff with the rest redundant or on furlough and so the service levels may at times not be what we'd hope for or that you'd expect. But I do know that those I deal with on a daily basis are trying their utmost under difficult and changing circumstances - why wouldn't they? Their jobs are as much under threat as ours. Basically what I'm trying to say is - I'm sorry that the level of service didn't meet your expectations but don't think the staff you interact with don't care, we really do. I can't speak for the cabin crew member who snapped as I wasn't there but all our staff have had the redundancy threat over them for the last six months plus all the stress we have all had due to COVID etc, sometimes people snap under stress. I understand that the PA's can be annoying, especially now we have all the COVID ones as well but we get as many complaints about lack of information (even if it's a simple nothing has changed) as we do about too much, it's a tricky balance. I'm sure that when the Captain announced an early arrival he was trying to put a positive slant on what was probably a difficult journey for many of our passengers in these unusual times. Would have taken some special skills to predict no steps for 55 minutes (although in this job you do come to expect the unexpected). Yup, sometimes we are rubbish but I think it's rare that we're rubbish on purpose, we're genuinely trying to do the best we can in difficult circumstances and are very grateful to all those who do choose to fly with us at the moment.

[TotalBeginner]

An apology, although ineffective in terms of influencing the prompt arrival of the ground equipment, is always welcome . After all the cc are the pax facing representatives of the company, an apology and a truthful explanation can effectively calm things down.

Always welcome? What possible satisfaction would one get from getting the employee on the lowest pay grade to apologise for the incompetence of their overpaid management? Cabin crew will be the last in the chain to receive information and anything that is forthcoming will have filtered down from us in the flight deck anyway. A PA with facts and an apology is sufficient, people don't need individual pardons to cater for their travel woes *cringe!!

Valid questions are a different matter and of course they should always be treated courteously.

[Mister Geezer]

At least you didn't have to pay for the water and the packet of crisps. :} :}

[anson harris]

Ahead of schedule currently routing direct to the final approach crowed the captain of the inbound flight to Edinburgh this evening. More verbiage about how early we were as we arrived on stand. 55 minutes later we were finally released and we listened to a litany of excuses. Apparently due to I kid you not, covid of course, there was only one set of steps @ Edinburgh and these were nowhere to be found. The lad behind me mildly enquired and complained to the senior cabin crew and was barked at in return ‘to not take his frustration out on the staff’. Very precious and unjustified. Having enjoyed a packet of crisps and a bottle of water as our in flight ‘refreshment’ I can only say that the former national carrier is a national embarrassment. Yes I know times are tough but really.

Just out of interest, how much was your ticket?

[Ralen]

Ahead of schedule currently routing direct to the final approach crowed the captain of the inbound flight to Edinburgh this evening. More verbiage about how early we were as we arrived on stand. 55 minutes later we were finally released and we listened to a litany of excuses. Apparently due to I kid you not, covid of course, there was only one set of steps @ Edinburgh and these were nowhere to be found. The lad behind me mildly enquired and complained to the senior cabin crew and was barked at in return ‘to not take his frustration out on the staff’. Very precious and unjustified. Having enjoyed a packet of crisps and a bottle of water as our in flight ‘refreshment’ I can only say that the former national carrier is a national embarrassment. Yes I know times are tough but really.

One set of steps, an hour after you arrive on stand? I believe at LGW we call that the Menzies Platinum Service...

[BA318]

Even our Tristars of 1973 ''vintage'' had their own airstairs and built-in on board bulk baggage conveyors -
The 1-11's had front & rear stairs, all had a nice punchy APU so all you needed was a low flat bed baggage truck for the bags and a few lads of 'bulk' muscle - although sometimes we had to load the bags ourselves with the FD & the CC helping out if it all went tits up down route and ''El we no-worko, Manana'' was in force.

To the OP I would complain especially, even if you (like me) are a lowly Blue BA Exec Club member - I would want/expect 10-15000 Avios deposited in my account for the inconveniences.
10 minutes to wait for steps is bad enough, but almost an hour's wait on an hours flight is wholly almost inexcusable, and unacceptable.

I had 2 instances of shocking ground handling on BA Club Europe flights going back to LHR both at Mykonos airport (Swissport) in the past 2 summers and I made constructive non-whining complaints to the No.1 CC who dealt with and recorded the matter superbly (hence that is why I fly BA) plus a follow up email to C-R and I got 10 and 15000 miles on each occasion.

How we boarded and loaded planes in the old days - Part 1

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/250x192/airstairs_f3179f0cbd02e72f3087a7ad7a2cd09756a116b8.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x577/11902376_800187770097967_7835463430173879306_n_a9ccdb8a29835 2c681b838cb157977f3e48589ea.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x584/11885402_800187820097962_5407848602757442059_n_195d47cb8cd7a c37a71d2ef9caa9d172417e1f19.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x571/11885224_800187713431306_7721334502053172055_n_13f2f6ab6fa1c 197f27775e7566eeab559ebf61b.jpg



How we boarded and loaded planes in the old days - Part 2



https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/900x600/null_zpsb2e21664_612b41bc8d5a25ed4007a95d6b5673f35a9be5c5.jp g

BA had left their steps in the way so our DC-9 could not go forward on to the Jetty - we lowered the airstairs

If we had moved the BA steps they would have kicked off - If we had called BA Ramp on the phone and waited for their chaps to come out (from their dens 50 yards away) and move them we would have waited ummm for ages...
We would call BAA Ramp Ops and report the misdemeanor of BA leaving equipment on stand.

those days of BA splashing the Avios for complaints are long gone. In the past you’d get 10,000 Avios for complaining about no choice of sandwich. Now you get a copy and paste reply to most complaints. You certainly won’t get anywhere near 10,000 Avios (unless perhaps you’re an important customer).

[Jack D]

Always welcome? What possible satisfaction would one get from getting the employee on the lowest pay grade to apologise for the incompetence of their overpaid management? Cabin crew will be the last in the chain to receive information and anything that is forthcoming will have filtered down from us in the flight deck anyway. A PA with facts and an apology is sufficient, people don't need individual pardons to cater for their travel woes *cringe!!

Valid questions are a different matter and of course they should always be treated courteously.

I respectfully suggest this is why you are in the wrong job ! “ Individual pardons “ what on earth does that mean ? individual explanations perhaps , that’s much better , doesn’t take a lot of effort.
I know you are underpaid and not appreciated by BA , I mean that , but sadly you are the only persons on board that can answer questions face to face. Easier for all concerned to offer an apology ( on behalf of your hopeless employer)
and get on with life, at least that’s my humble opinion.

[bex88]

Wow, what a lot of fuss.

Ba flight early. 55 minutes for steps. Menzies are the handling agent and failed to provide the service for which they are contracted. Crew are criticised for making too many PA’s and you did not like the tone of them either. Will BA be asking questions about why this happened? I would be pretty sure they will and I would be very confident it would be a one off. In 11 years I have not had this at EDI. Wheel chairs, well that’s different.

You also complain about the complimentary snack on a 55 minute flight. I get that it’s frustrating but it seems that if God himself had granted all your wishes you would have complained about how long he took too.

You want to blame something? Covid. You want to blame someone? Start with Sturgeon then move onto Bojo and finish up with the whole reaction to this mess that is 2020. Open your eyes and realise things are pretty different right now.

If it had been me up front you would have received a very blunt and truthful PA. I don’t hide my frustration either and I find passengers appreciate that. I am sure the crew wanted to resolve the situation and get home too.

[WindSheer]

There is a simple lesson in this post. Keeping people in a confined space for a minute longer than necessary during this pandemic, let alone 55, is not justified, regardless of the argument. Forget SLA'S, think risk mitigation.
Plenty of people out there desperate for work. Get them in and get them handling aircraft.

[TotalBeginner]

I respectfully suggest this is why you are in the wrong job !

I’m neither cabin crew (thankfully) nor an employee of BA. :rolleyes:

[The96er]

There is a simple lesson in this post. Keeping people in a confined space for a minute longer than necessary during this pandemic, let alone 55, is not justified, regardless of the argument. Forget SLA'S, think risk mitigation.
Plenty of people out there desperate for work. Get them in and get them handling aircraft.

Completly miss-understood the situation - you're implying that the issue was/is caused by people unwilling to work !? - The reality is aviation is looking down the gun barrel of the abyss and simply has no money to pay for the staff/equipment needed and not an unwillingness of staff to work. I've no doubt that what staff were on that night in EDI wore working under an impossible to achieve workload. The notion that it's the fault of the individuals on the Ramp is simply unfair on them.

[Kiltrash]

Sh*t happens you are lucky not to end up in court facing a interference with crew....

[johnnychips]

Wow, what a lot of fuss.

Ba flight early. 55 minutes for steps. Menzies are the handling agent and failed to provide the service for which they are contracted. Crew are criticised for making too many PA’s and you did not like the tone of them either. Will BA be asking questions about why this happened? I would be pretty sure they will and I would be very confident it would be a one off. In 11 years I have not had this at EDI. Wheel chairs, well that’s different.

You also complain about the complimentary snack on a 55 minute flight. I get that it’s frustrating but it seems that if God himself had granted all your wishes you would have complained about how long he took too.

You want to blame something? Covid. You want to blame someone? Start with Sturgeon then move onto Bojo and finish up with the whole reaction to this mess that is 2020. Open your eyes and realise things are pretty different right now.

If it had been me up front you would have received a very blunt and truthful PA. I don’t hide my frustration either and I find passengers appreciate that. I am sure the crew wanted to resolve the situation and get home too.

I rarely write on here, but I can’t believe what I just read defending poor service on a customer-facing industry. Yes, stuff can happen, but you can handle it well, leaving the passenger annoyed but understanding. This didn’t happen here.

[eastern wiseguy]

To think they once ran an empire on which the sun never set.


Who? British Airways, Edinburgh Airport, or, Menzies?

Give your head a wobble....

[bex88]

I rarely write on here, but I can’t believe what I just read defending poor service on a customer-facing industry. Yes, stuff can happen, but you can handle it well, leaving the passenger annoyed but understanding. This didn’t happen here.

I am not defending poor service. Far from it. The service experienced was terrible once the aircraft arrived at EDI. What I am defending is BA in this situation. This is not normal, this is not directly BA’s fault but it is always our responsibility to look after our passengers. I have been in positions where I cannot do anything and it is BA’s fault. You will not hear a defence of them from me then. I have been known to say “this is entirely our fault” on the PA. What can the flight crew do? Blow a gasket over the radio too the handling agent who is not listening because half are redundant and the half of the remaining half are on furlough. Cabin crew can snap at people which is wrong but they are only human and mostly they snap when being snapped at. It does not make it right.

I find it really frustrating reading this stuff. It’s always BA’s fault. The staff are always rude and rubbish. The prices are always too high and the food not good enough. I do not see that on the vast majority of flights. Mostly we get it right but there is no defending it when we really get it wrong.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Your issue is wholly the responsibility of Edinburgh airport and Menzies, BA has absolutely no control over the ground staff there who deal with that, how many steps there are, or even where the steps are on the airfield. Something you should bear in mind before blaming any carrier.
100% wrong. Menzies ARE the face of BA, they handle BA wearing BA uniform and BA pay them to deliver a service. However since the EU changed the rules on ground handling, it has been a race to the bottom in terms and conditions. Whereas once BA and Midland had in house staff who were expected to deliver a high standard and were trained accordingly, nowadays the bar is way lower. Yes it absolutely is, flying UK domestic since the 90s the difference is palpable!
Cruz doesn't care as BA only need to compete at easyJet levels on these routes. How far things have changed hit home a few years back when BA parked the late Shuttle on cargo and bussed! Something unimaginable back in the glory days. Frankly EDI have more time for easyJet as they're a bigger customer anyway.

The current BA operation is really struggling, aircraft arrive at LHR and frequently wait for stand guidance and towing aircraft, 9/10 call up with the wrong details to ATC with the resigned response of "call company". I would bet a lot of the wrong people left or are leaving.....

The attitudes to customers on this thread are classic BA, just before Colin Marshall got rid of anyone who shared them!

[olster]

This is my final post on the matter. If you want to defend the indefensible then go ahead but you were not there. It is BAs fault or rather the organisation of ground equipment which they are responsible whether farmed out or not. To others I will say this: at no stage did I say anything to any crew member except thank you for the ludicrous plastic bag containing a packet of crisps and a bottle of water. Nor did I mention that I had been in the biz for a host of obvious reasons. The Scottish lad behind me was not offensive in any way to the cabin crew but got told not to take his frustrations out on them which he manifestly did not. He asked me what he had done to deserve that response. So as you like bluntness bex I will tell you that I do not give a flying foxtrot how you would have dealt with the scenario for the very reason I spent 40 years at the front end of Boeing’s and Airbuses and have been in exactly the same position. If you read my post you would know that in no way do I blame the crew but the captain was a slight hostage to fortune as our incredibly ( apparently) expeditious arrival ended up sitting like lemons for the oft mentioned 55 minutes. On reflection I may have been a little harsh on the skipper but his enthusiasm for the limelight was a bit much for my taste. Essentially although in my flying days I was aware that one needed to engage the passenger but my view was that to get there in one piece provided the best customer experience. In case of any further misunderstandings which are popping up here I have no doubt that BAs operational standards are as high as they always were along with the other major UK airlines. Shouting at handling agents? No, never a good idea and unfair with the pressures they are under. Now or pre covid. However and finally in summary, as has been mentioned this was a very poor customer experience whatever price I paid for the ticket and is the direct result of poor organisation; that is down to BA and the toxic management that run it. My view anyway.

[WindSheer]

Completly miss-understood the situation - you're implying that the issue was/is caused by people unwilling to work !? - The reality is aviation is looking down the gun barrel of the abyss and simply has no money to pay for the staff/equipment needed and not an unwillingness of staff to work. I've no doubt that what staff were on that night in EDI wore working under an impossible to achieve workload. The notion that it's the fault of the individuals on the Ramp is simply unfair on them.

Not a single word in my post is pointing a finger at the individuals on the ramp. My post is highlighting the issue in culture v business v cost. I am very experienced in risk mitigation and the balance between reasonable practicality versus cost. I am also very experienced in ramp operations and the time bound pressures that ground crews face, particularly when dealing with outbound v inbound aircraft.
Historically (and with financial penalties in mind), airports, airlines and handling agents have prioritised departures versus arrivals. My point was more towards the industry needing to take shift in risk mitigation. Unfortunately safety has now knocked both performance and cost saving out of the park. Keeping people waiting on aircraft in this pandemic will cost far more than a few additional ground agents in the long run. People just won't stand for it and will take their business elsewhere. Rail, drive etc.

I think the OP is very on topic and has a justified argument in the current climate.

[fergusd]

The last time I flew on a BA flight into EDI, and as a previous loyal customer clocking about 1.5 million miles on BA since the late 80's . . .

The flight landed on time, then proceeded to taxi to what I assume was somewhere on the east coast of England . . . we then waited nearly an hour for some steps to arrive, we then waited for a bus to arrive, and finally after another hour we waited for someone to open a door at the airport for 20 minutes so we could trudge through the rain to the carpark . . . of course I was charged more for parking . . . and I decided to simply not fly BA any more . . .

There was no Covid excuse at the time, or really any valid excuse, and I have no interest in what chump didn't do their job, I paid BA, and they did not deliver . . . and this was largely a repeat of a similar service a month before, and a litany of very late flights from LHR to EDI in the previous year . . . every single one late, sometimes hours, I was flying HEL <-> EDI weekly.

I remember the days when BA was the carrier of choice which I loyally booked and I flew all over the USA and europe with them for nearly 20 years . . . things have changed and they offer no value over the budget carriers . . . but still charge a premium price . . . If I'm going to get sh1t service I may as well pay less . . .

A real shame . . . but like everything this is what you get when you cost reduce things to the point where they don't work any more.

I realise I've spoken in a manner which suggests I still fly or even may fly again . . . neither of those are looking likely for the forseeable . . .

[mike current]

Ahead of schedule currently routing direct to the final approach crowed the captain of the inbound flight to Edinburgh this evening.

Every single flight has been routing direct to the final approach since March :E:E

[caaardiff]

This is an aviation forum and I am just relating my experience. I am too lazy to complain officially so I am venting here.

There is a key point here. There is an entire 4 page thread, to which the OP has commented several times on over the past 24 hours, which the topic has also raised many frustrations from either side of the argument.
The simple and quicker option would have been to actually complain to BA/Menzies/EDI and awaited a response with an explanation as to what happened, and maybe some kind of compensation/offering as way of an apology. I dealt with very similar complaints many times in my career. Many irate customers that when actually offered an explanation as to what happened or at least if it really was a complete mess up, a sincere apology.
THEN post the experience, and the outcome on open forums.

[RoyHudd]

Olster is quite right, and he should know. BA can be very shabby these days. Ground handling at EDI is a function of what BA are now prepared to pay. They were top notch.

I flew First and then Club World just this year, as a paying passenger LH ,and the cabin crew attitudes were astonishingly poor on all 4 long sectors, as was their service. A couple of years back, one of BA's Captains was poor enough to divert due fuel on our MAN-LHR sector, on a snowy day with insufficient resources to hold for 45 mins. Many missed their connection, due to a 4 hour delay on the ground at LTN. Hard to forget.

I am sorry that BA are now so poor in terms of customer service. However, things may change in the future.

[Jack D]

I’m neither cabin crew (thankfully) nor an employee of BA. :rolleyes:

You are fortunate indeed ! my apologies, but PA,s don’t always reach the parts that personal contact can, I think you know that .

[Jenny Tails]

The OP needs to give their head a wobble and get a grip.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

The OP needs to give their head a wobble and get a grip.
And you need to remember who pays your wages.....
Blaming the customer is never a good strategy.

[Aero Mad]

Absolutely right Skippy. Poor customer service for unavoidable reasons is one thing; buck-passing, on the other hand, is both appalling and entirely avoidable. We should all be able to agree that BA has, for lots of reasons, been run down quite severely over the last five years. I have little truck with that more novel technique of customer-blaming - 'it's all they're willing to pay for' - given that the firm we're talking about makes somewhere around £1 billion p/a in a normal year. 2020 is, of course, an exception - but sadly these problems long predate the current crisis. It will take new management, which recognises the value to the shareholder of customer retention and finds the leitmotif of shambles upon shambles simply embarrassing, to solve them.

[AnotherRedWineThanks]

Is it unusual for steps to be available early i.e. well before scheduled arrival time? If it is unusual, is there any point in being early? If being early is simply a result of ATC and tailwind happenstance, is there any point boasting about it until after a timely set of steps has been confirmed? And if the whole industry is going down the tubes, wouldn't the flight crew be aware that it's going down the tubes and adjust their boastfulness accordingly?

[4468]

I remember the days when BA was the carrier of choice which I loyally booked and I flew all over the USA and europe with them for nearly 20 years . . . things have changed and they offer no value over the budget carriers . . . but still charge a premium price . . . If I'm going to get sh1t service I may as well pay less . . .
This got me thinking.

According to skyscanner, booking ahead and flying from LHR to EDI with BA will cost £64 return.

If Luton is convenient for you, you can fly from there to EDI with Easy for £59 return. I didn’t look at LGW.

Catching a train from Kings Cross will cost £61 return on the same date.

Ryanair would probably offer a similar service for £9.99 each way.

Too few customers will pay for a robust level of service, and no airline executives will sacrifice their (cost cutting = profit making) bonus to provide it. Of course they will charge whatever they can, but the customer has decided that price is everything!

This is rather sad to say, but the halcyon days of aviation have gone for a very considerable time to come, if not forever.

On many routes everyone is competing with Ryanair levels of cost and service. Because that is what customers in their droves have shown they want.

[D9009]

In my view, the powers that be demonstrated their contempt for British Airway's hard won reputation for good service and a very British corporate identity when they painted the tailfins with the ludicrous "Utopia" world image livery in the 90s.

[MichaelOLearyGenius]

They probably have to disinfect the stairs between flights too

[speedrestriction]

Personally I’ve not used BA since a FA threw a packet of peanuts at me on a domestic sector about a decade ago. From a customer service POV it is a “has been.”

[RetiredBA/BY]

Let me get this into proportion.

Just how early was this flight, surely NOT 55 minutes, so why werent the steps available for the scheduled arrival time. Rotten ground handling.

That said, perhaps I should not criticise BA in case my Avios etc are removed by Sr Cruz !

[olster]

I said I would not write anymore but I have just seen the post from Tom 777. Thank you for a very reasonable reply and I completely agree with you. Everybody is on edge right now and I do not blame flight / cabin crew, ground staff or hard working employees of any ilk. I do blame the upper echelons of BA management for the dysfunctional organisation that caused this problem. Not the end of the world but not acceptable either. Finally, I had a very enjoyable flying career and I am desperately sorry for all those who take pride in their aviation jobs currently under threat whatever the specification. Truly unbelievable that aviation has been thrown under the bus for this. That is another story I guess. Thanks again Tom 777.Cheers.

[blind pew]

From an ex employee...happy to be ex :-)
Ba
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ba-threat-to-frequent-flyers-who-air-criticism-jpp3xn3gs

[macdo]

Unfortunately, civil aviation became commoditised and as a direct result cost cutting is the absolute goal of everyone involved on the business side. Olsters' complaint is hardly news. But if mass air transport at prices less than the car parking at the airport continues, nothing can change. The complainers grumble, then still go online for and baulk if a £30 fare to Malaga is unavailable. The accountants know this and they know that the headline price is all the punter is interested in. BA, for all its faults, tried in vain to resist the tide and now is what it is, pi@@ poor like its competitors. It is entirely feasible that BA may cease to exist, and the entrails of the industry will be handed over to the likes of Wizz, who get around the financial issues with questionable employment policies. Flying now, as a commodity, is the same experience ias being in a bus or a train, tolerable if all goes well, but only to do if you have to.

[anson harris]

A couple of years back, one of BA's Captains was poor enough to divert due fuel on our MAN-LHR sector, on a snowy day with insufficient resources to hold for 45 mins.


I'm sure you're right. He probably just set off with flight plan fuel without checking the weather at LHR. What a pity you didn't offer your superior knowledge up before departure.

[Locked door]

Many axes being ground on this thread but this one takes the biscuit. You’re complaining because an aircraft diverted from Heathrow on a snowy day? What planet are you on? Have you ever operated into Heathrow on a snow day? “delay undetermined, one a/c has been holding for 55mins” was my favourite. Far better to take the delay on the ground somewhere less chaotic and relaunch when delays are known.

I remember when Heathrow changed the stand numbers years back, we took a little extra fuel just in case but we weren’t expecting carnage. Bet BA would get your blame for that too.


Olster is quite right, and he should know. BA can be very shabby these days. Ground handling at EDI is a function of what BA are now prepared to pay. They were top notch.

I flew First and then Club World just this year, as a paying passenger LH ,and the cabin crew attitudes were astonishingly poor on all 4 long sectors, as was their service. A couple of years back, one of BA's Captains was poor enough to divert due fuel on our MAN-LHR sector, on a snowy day with insufficient resources to hold for 45 mins. Many missed their connection, due to a 4 hour delay on the ground at LTN. Hard to forget.

I am sorry that BA are now so poor in terms of customer service. However, things may change in the future.

[helipixman]

You mention also that you arrived early, in which case it's not unreasonable to expect the handling agent to not be there ready to meet you..

I have worked as a ground handler and staff constantly watch for flights coming in early and attend that flight normally by waiting at the stand for the aircraft to approach, ready with all equipment needed. So I dont think by being early you get ignored ? What if you are late, lets not bother with them, it's their fault they are late ? Problems I could envisage are staff shortage, steps needing handrails to be cleaned before being used etc, so not BA fault. It's also not unheard of for Edinburgh to hold aircraft because a stand is not available ?(although that should not be a problem currently). I have seen long haul aircraft wait for ages to get a stand, shocking after passenger have already been on the aircraft for 8-9 hours

[wiggy]

one of BA's Captains was poor enough to divert due fuel on our MAN-LHR sector, on a snowy day with insufficient resources to hold for 45 mins.

Just to second Anson's and Locked Door's comments upthread - you think this was "poor" because of?

Did you have access to the TAF the captain had available at the time the fuel decision was made?

[Litebulbs]

Having enjoyed a packet of crisps and a bottle of water as our in flight ‘refreshment’

How would you rate the crisps?

[olster]

Very mediocre Litebulbs but in view of the volatile nature of the internet I think that would be a whinge too far. Sea salt apparently if you are interested. I made a schoolboy error in that I did not realise that by gate A6 @ T5 there is wait for it a ‘Spoons. The majority of travellers in T5 were obviously in the know and the cognoscenti were tucking into lashings of everything by the time I got there. If I had known I would have pitched up earlier for several large Merlot’s which would hopefully have made me more sanguine about subsequent events. Instead I had consumed a sandwich from Pret A Manger which tasted of cardboard. I really will stop contributing here but in view of your enquiry Litebulbs and with the intent of lightening the mood I have succumbed again. Anyway traveller top tip Wetherspoons is by A6 and is amazingly open until the fun police close it I suppose. Cheers.

[aileron]

Taxiing in on any BA flight..........’........welcome to xxx airport we are 3 minutes early! ‘
10 minutes later and still taxiing I look at my watch and chuckle to see we are now ‘7 minutes late’. 25 minutes later the cabin doors are finally opened.
Top tip......can we let the customers decide if we are early or late? Smacks of desperation and frankly who is sick of being preached at about how we are supposed to feel? After a mediocre flight with Cabin Crew who resent the passengers?
BA are finished. London Airways RIP.

[Klimax]

BA is a joke and covid-19 is just an excuse for the sake of the excuse. Blaming service providers for inadequate support is a lame way of running away from the real problem. Thankfully there's other choices around - unfortunately at this point in time, sometimes BA is the only one (hence why we still fly with them!).

[Klimax]

How would you rate the crisps?

Most likely you had those chilly crisps. Fake, fake, fake. I feel sorry for the staff!

EDIT: I realize you had the sea salt ones - less fake!. Easyjet has orange chocolate bars limited edition on sale right now! You pay for it - at it's almost as sh@t as the BA crisps, but at least the ticket is about 1/5th of the price (not that I pay myself - but just for info!).

[Litebulbs]

Very mediocre Litebulbs

But you did enjoy them? What stood out that made you enjoy a mediocre experience?

[fergusd]

This got me thinking.

According to skyscanner, booking ahead and flying from LHR to EDI with BA will cost £64 return.

If Luton is convenient for you, you can fly from there to EDI with Easy for £59 return. I didn’t look at LGW.

Catching a train from Kings Cross will cost £61 return on the same date.

Ryanair would probably offer a similar service for £9.99 each way.

Too few customers will pay for a robust level of service, and no airline executives will sacrifice their (cost cutting = profit making) bonus to provide it. Of course they will charge whatever they can, but the customer has decided that price is everything!

This is rather sad to say, but the halcyon days of aviation have gone for a very considerable time to come, if not forever.

On many routes everyone is competing with Ryanair levels of cost and service. Because that is what customers in their droves have shown they want.

Personally I have no interest in how much a train costs . . . my time is far more valuable . . . if you want to see a service far worse than the worst ****show that aviation can stoop to, take the train . . .

And relevantly . . . how the *uck to I get to Helsinki on a train genius ? . . .

Fd

[Icanseeclearly]

Ahhh

kilimax the old EasyJet is far cheaper than BA myth.

a quick look says I can fly from GLA to LHR on the 19th of this month, for example, for £36 with BA, it’s £33 to LTN with EasyJet so hardly 1/5th of the cost...

which just shows that aviation is a race to the bottom and in order to compete the once decent airlines have to cut costs and that means outsourcing - but hey the paying public get what they want, cheap tickets, but are unwilling to accept that sometimes that comes at a cost.

[Litebulbs]

Ahhh

kilimax the old EasyJet is far cheaper than BA myth.

a quick look says I can fly from GLA to LHR on the 19th of this month, for example, for £36 with BA, it’s £33 to LTN with EasyJet so hardly 1/5th of the cost...

which just shows that aviation is a race to the bottom.

What should the price be then?

[Jack D]

Who are the “thet” you refer to?

Inhabitants of the planet “ Tharg “ perhaps ?

To be fair, as a comparison,short haul flights to LHR with other so called legacy carriers offer a better travel experience than BA .

I have used Lufthansa , Swiss, KLM, SAS, Finnair even Alitalia all are mere shadows of their former selves all are low cost ( not officially of course). All were consistently more pleasant

[4468]

my time is far more valuable
Perhaps a private jet might be more appropriate for you? 🤔

[JOSHUA]

Ahhh

kilimax the old EasyJet is far cheaper than BA myth.

a quick look says I can fly from GLA to LHR on the 19th of this month, for example, for £36 with BA, it’s £33 to LTN with EasyJet so hardly 1/5th of the cost...

which just shows that aviation is a race to the bottom and in order to compete the once decent airlines have to cut costs and that means outsourcing - but hey the paying public get what they want, cheap tickets, but are unwilling to accept that sometimes that comes at a cost.

Spot on. Really is nothing to add to this comment.

[wiggy]

Ahhh

kilimax the old EasyJet is far cheaper than BA myth.



:ok:, though I guess it can mean what people define as "far"....

In the spirit of the thread I have just done a comparison from our local airport...from which BA serve LHR and Easyjet serve LGW.....same day, about a month from now.

BA tickets available from €66
Easyjet €42.50

The BA station manager and station staff fired several years ago in the spirit of cost cutting.

[srjumbo747]

Sorry, but I obviously did not explain well enough so let me clarify. I am well aware that it is the outsourced handling company that provides ancillary equipment. Ironiquement I have been in exactly the same position at the sharp end of a leisure airline B737 prior to my retirement. This happened more than once and I was unsurprisingly based @EDI.The only difference was that I was not on the PA every 20 seconds plus personal appearance in front of the passengers ad nauseam. Sometimes less is more.I know that it is not the flight crew fault but the self aggrandisement on the PA coupled with snippy cabin crew and combined with the water, crisps and face masks add up to a miserable experience. And we were imprisoned for 55 minutes due organisational issues which I would have thought a ‘superior ‘ product such as BA could have provided. Yes I know it is not the worst shambles in the world but it is not good either. Hope that helps.
The BA S/H pilots just won’t shut up and fully backed by the cabin crew but I won’t bang on about their PA’s
35 minute flight from Jersey to LHR
Welcome from the Captain
After take off PA
Mid flight PA
Before Landing PA
After landing PA
Goodbye at the door.
Ridiculous in the extreme.

[hec7or]

Alex Cruz is stepping down.

[4468]

Alex Cruz is stepping down.
Stepping down as Chief Executive, but remains as non executive Chairman for a “transition period.”

You just can’t get these people’s snouts out of the trough!

Replaced by Aer Lingus’ (and ex-BA’s) Sean Doyle.

Non of which will be good news for the long suffering staff.

[Paul Lupp]

Way back around 1998, IIRC, I was on a domestic flight from Newcastle to LHR. Plane arrived on time, pulled up at airbridge and we waited about an hour for someone at LHR to open the door to let us off. There was apparently nobody available and "rules" made it difficult for the crew to open the door and use on-board steps to let passengers off (in any event with nobody to unlock terminal doors, we wouldn't have been able to get into the terminal anyway). Wait on plane was longer than the flight itself, followed by further wait (yup, even after an hour on board) for luggage to appear. Also have a few other experiences of waiting for a gate to become available after the plane has touched down, again usually on or around scheduled arrival time - all incidents at LHR. Never come across this phenomenon at any other airport.

It's not BA's fault but someone else's, trouble is as has been suggested that even if you do contact the airport or airline to complain, everyone passes the buck and you never get an apology or explanation, let alone compensation.
Customer service in the UK died decades ago; get over it, OP, it's unfortunately to be expected that every so often there will be an avoidable delay that you get caught up in, for which nobody will ever take responsibility as "it's just one of those things that happens from time to time". And I doubt that the crew were boasting when they announced arrival ahead of schedule, probably just informing passengers in a "pat on the back" kind-of-way.

Also I seem to recall that back in the 1980's/1990's when BA operated the shuttles to Edinburgh, the flight time was one hour (same flight time to Glasgow), and 1 1/2 hours to Aberdeen. Now it appears that the flight time to EDI is 90 minutes. I wonder why.... increased taxiing time at both ends, ATC delays now being normal or ???

[DaveReidUK]

Also I seem to recall that back in the 1980's/1990's when BA operated the shuttles to Edinburgh, the flight time was one hour (same flight time to Glasgow), and 1 1/2 hours to Aberdeen. Now it appears that the flight time to EDI is 90 minutes. I wonder why.... increased taxiing time at both ends, ATC delays now being normal or ???

And, earlier than that: LHR-EDI Vanguard 80 mins, Comet 70 mins (southbound times 5 minutes less).

[AirportPlanner1]

I understand from sources Alex Cruz was dismissed for gross misconduct because there were no steps available for an arrival at Edinburgh on Friday night

[Asturias56]

I can remember years ago arriving on KLM at AMS one morning and taxying up to the gate. After about 10 minutes waiting and not a soul to be seen we were told to get back in our seats and then proceeded to taxi across from D26 to E26..... a mistake anyone could have made..........

[ShotOne]

In Vanguard/Comet days, aircraft handler was viewed as a responsible and reasonably well-paid job. These days it’s min-wage, fire-at -will. There’ll be no spare steps if anything goes wrong. Or spare staff to position them. Or spare anything else. Back then of course an air ticket cost massively more than today in real terms. You can’t have it all ways!

[D9009]

Alex Cruz is stepping down.

But not immediately due to a lack of steps

[AirUK]

First of all, I’m flightcrew and I have been for nearly 20 years. This period has and will continue to be very difficult for all of us, and as a workforce, I have a lot of respect and empathy for all of my peers and what they’ve had to deal with, regardless of carrier, at this time.

That said, with my work hat off and full fare-paying passenger hat on, BA’s service level is appalling nowadays. Several recent flights as a fare-paying passenger have left me less than impressed every single time. In my opinion nothing distinguishes them from other (average at best) low cost airlines - they’ve lost their USP entirely and they do know it - that’s why they no longer refer to themselves as ‘The World’s Favourite’ - it’s because they’re not. I used to willingly pay more for a BA service because of the better service level than the low cost brigade, as tempting as they’re fares were, but they have now aligned their product (and attitude) with that of said low cost carriers, yet still have the cheek to charge (in many cases), a much higher fare - I imagine they think some will still just pay for the name (and those awful M&S sandwiches), despite no real ‘substance’ any more. This is not the fault of the crew at all and I sympathise with them because they’ve lost the tools (and quality training it seems) to be able to do their jobs as well as in years gone by. But as someone said above, an experienced crew member would hesitate to ‘tempt fate‘ and shout from the rooftops about an early arrival before actually arriving (not overhead, not landing - at the gate with parking brake set and engines shut down).

I’ve had some awful diversions with hefty ground delays (on arrival) with both Aer Lingus and Easyjet before, where ground staff/company staff/crew could have done something (anything!) to help the situation, but did absolutely nothing - it happens unfortunately, it shouldn’t happen, but is not unique to BA. It’s not the end of the world, but the frustrating part is that whichever the carrier, what they all have in common nowadays is that the cost-cutting, bonus-hungry ‘management’ just don’t seem to care one jot about customer experience and inconvenience whatsoever: cue the copied and pasted insincere standard responses of ‘it was out of
our control’, ‘our customer’s opinion means a lot to us’, ‘we’re really sorry we didn’t impress you on this occasion’, blah blah blah - whatever. I don’t bother complaining any more.

As an aside - pilot hat back on - why is it I’ve found, increasingly in recent years, that only the BA flightcrews stare at you like you’re from another planet when you say ‘good morning’ walking through the terminal? Is it the impersonal BA management culture filtering down from above? If so, what a shame. Everyone used to be so friendly, even at 5 o’clock in the morning!

Have a good day all.

[D9009]

As an aside - pilot hat back on - why is it I’ve found, increasingly in recent years, that only the BA flightcrews stare at you like you’re from another planet when you say ‘good morning’ walking through the terminal? Is it the impersonal BA management culture filtering down from above? If so, what a shame. Everyone used to be so friendly, even at 5 o’clock in the morning!


I've noticed that too, all the other crew you meet are fairly friendly, but I hadn't considered it to be a morale problem, more an issue of class as highlighted by John Cleese, Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett.

[Saintsman]

Rest assured regardless of FR info we were sat there for 55 minutes.

In my experience, as soon as the aircraft arrives at the gate, nearly everybody jumps up, grabs their bags and queues to get out. Getting them to sit down again is not the easiest of jobs...

[Timmy Tomkins]

To think they once ran an empire on which the sun never set.
That was before everything was privatised and funding pubic services became akin to communism. Everything is now fragmented into subcontractors and sub, sub contractors all shaving the costs with the inevitable drop in quality.

Edinburgh is an appalling airport anyway and I am thankful I no longer have to use it. Grumpy staff and arrive there after 2200 and access to the terminal from the apron may be via busses to a distant ground evel entrance. I have waitied an hour on the a/c and another hour to get past the 2 people on passports, processing 3 or 4 a/c loads of pax. Make a polite observation about poor service and you get barked at.

If we were to venture off aviation then volumes like War & Peace are easily possible on the degeneration of this country.

[Slamitin]

pubic services

Are you sure you meant shaving costs 😬

[helipixman]

Edinburgh is an appalling airport anyway and I am thankful I no longer have to use it. Grumpy staff and arrive there after 2200 and access to the terminal from the apron may be via busses to a distant ground evel entrance. I have waitied an hour on the a/c and another hour to get past the 2 people on passports, processing 3 or 4 a/c loads of pax. Make a polite observation about poor service and you get barked at.

Totally agree, even living closer to Edinburgh I try to avoid it if possible and use Glasgow, they seem to be far happier to see customers and Loganair were also fantastic, could not fault the crew/pilots, great service.

[tictack67]

Totally agree, even living closer to Edinburgh I try to avoid it if possible and use Glasgow, they seem to be far happier to see customers and Loganair were also fantastic, could not fault the crew/pilots, great service.
​​​​​​
​​​​​​That does like daily fail customers who refuse to fly X airline again until the next wave of £9.99 flights lol

[CabinCrewe]

i cant believe this thread is at 5 pages... in the middle of one of the worlds biggest crises...

[AirUK]

i cant believe this thread is at 5 pages... in the middle of one of the worlds biggest crises...

Due to the crisis you mention, many air crew have been sat on their behinds for the past 7 months... PPRuNe provides the vent we would usually reserve for cruise chatter! You did just find time out of your crisis-ridden day to trawl through the 5 pages yourself, did you not?! ;)

[Jenny Tails]

I take it all back. A late set of steps at Edinburgh proved to be the downfall of Alex Cruz!

I thought it would have been the Unions...

[TotalBeginner]

The BA S/H pilots just won’t shut up and fully backed by the cabin crew but I won’t bang on about their PA’s
35 minute flight from Jersey to LHR
Welcome from the Captain
After take off PA
Mid flight PA
Before Landing PA
After landing PA
Goodbye at the door.
Ridiculous in the extreme.

After takeoff, before landing and after landing will be made by all operators (or a variation of) because they're mandated. Although I'm not sure why, nobody seems to be able to follow the instructions anyway.

[NoelEvans]

Originally Posted by Jenny Tails View Post (https://www.pprune.org/showthread.php?p=10902199#post10902199)
The OP needs to give their head a wobble and get a grip.
And you need to remember who pays your wages.....
Blaming the customer is never a good strategy.
An excellent response!

Haven't I read somewhere in the many pages elsewhere here that "BA Short-Haul is 'EasyJet where the pilots wear caps'!"?

[old,not bold]

About once a fortnight, during the time of my life when I was responsible for the ground handling of our airline as well as others we handled at a busy Middle East airport, I would go into a quiet room somewhere and pray to God (in all her various forms) to spare us from gung-ho Captains who just loved to be able to say the their admiring passengers; ".....and we are going to land 35 minutes ahead of schedule!" as though this was some kind of achievement. Early arrivals are often unavoidable, I know, but there's no point to striving for them. It disrupts everyone, including passengers, and frequently simply means sitting on a patch of tarmac, engines running, while a gate is cleared and passengers launch into their social media to complain about inefficiency. Handling equipment, and the staff to work it, are not an infinite resource.

[Jenny Tails]

About once a fortnight, during the time of my life when I was responsible for the ground handling of our airline as well as others we handled at a busy Middle East airport, I would go into a quiet room somewhere and pray to God (in all her various forms) to spare us from gung-ho Captains who just loved to be able to say the their admiring passengers; ".....and we are going to land 35 minutes ahead of schedule!" as though this was some kind of achievement. Early arrivals are often unavoidable, I know, but there's no point to striving for them. It disrupts everyone, including passengers, and frequently simply means sitting on a patch of tarmac, engines running, while a gate is cleared and passengers launch into their social media to complain about inefficiency. Handling equipment, and the staff to work it, are not an infinite resource.

It's a shame more people don't realise this.

[david120]

6 pages! have not read all so I may be wrong - has anybody mentioned the necessity for TWO sets of steps to ensure optimum social distancing. I recently flew LGW-INV-LGW with LCC and found the cabin s-d procedures to be not fit for purpose - full loads each sector. I won't go into details but in these times two sets of steps should be mandatory, together with other COVID rules including maximum loading (middle seat free?) plus cabin rules which are currently guidance only in UK. A reasonable additional ticket cost should be accepted while train fares are typically double the average flight cost for domestic and European destinations.

As a former airline employee for several decades I flew frequently - both on and off duty. Since retirement my wife and I would normally fly several times a year for leisure, however following this experience we will not be flying again anytime soon.

Airlines need to accept that this 'new normal' is for many reasons indefinite. If they wish to keep customers they should be striving to keep them feeling safe from infection, otherwise, like us, they will find other ways to travel or stay at home.

[wub]

i cant believe this thread is at 5 pages... in the middle of one of the worlds biggest crises...

You should have a look at the BA Executive Club forum on Flyertalk, there is a 95 page thread about lounges being closed.....

[8029848s]

Shame on you airline people posting above telling pax it’s not the airline’s fault, blame the handling agent. Who appoints and (hopefully) monitors the handling agent? That would be the airline. Average passenger doesn’t draw a distinction between the airline and the handling agent and airlines by and large understand that. I used to travel a lot through EDI, but haven’t since March and the place used to be a shambles because it was too busy. Now it sounds like a shambles because it’s too quiet.

Both the public, airlines, and all other stakeholders (including governments) are to blame for the state of the industry to a degree. The public want to fly all over the world for a euro, and to remain competitive, and profitable, all airlines outsource anything not attached to the aircraft (and things that are in some cases). The industry is not liberalised and in some cases such as the US completely protected from market forces and competition. The other end of the scale is counties like Italy that prop up a 'zombie' airline that simply should not be allowed to operate.

You pay for what you get 'Willy"....I imagine the cost of your ticket was similar to the cost of filling a car tank with petrol, and how far would that get you?......look in the mirror before criticising "airline people' per se.

[irishlad06]

6 pages! have not read all so I may be wrong - has anybody mentioned the necessity for TWO sets of steps to ensure optimum social distancing. I recently flew LGW-INV-LGW with LCC and found the cabin s-d procedures to be not fit for purpose - full loads each sector. I won't go into details but in these times two sets of steps should be mandatory, together with other COVID rules including maximum loading (middle seat free?) plus cabin rules which are currently guidance only in UK. A reasonable additional ticket cost should be accepted while train fares are typically double the average flight cost for domestic and European destinations.

As a former airline employee for several decades I flew frequently - both on and off duty. Since retirement my wife and I would normally fly several times a year for leisure, however following this experience we will not be flying again anytime soon.

Airlines need to accept that this 'new normal' is for many reasons indefinite. If they wish to keep customers they should be striving to keep them feeling safe from infection, otherwise, like us, they will find other ways to travel or stay at home.

1.1BILLION people have flown on a flight since March 2020 - a total of 41 people have or are suspected of catching COVID from flying.

41 people out of 1.1billion.

[DaveReidUK]

1.1BILLION people have flown on a flight since March 2020 - a total of 41 people have or are suspected of catching COVID from flying.

41 people out of 1.1billion.

While you - or rather IATA's modelling - may well be in the right ballpark, the actual figure is demonstrably unprovable, unless you are suggesting that every one of those 1.1 billion people was tested a week or so after flying, which sounds a tad unlikely.

What IATA actually said was "there is no way to establish an exact tally of possible flight-associated cases".

[God_of_Fire]

EDI gorundhandling is some of the worst in my experience and is staffed by officious and unhelpful jobsworth's. It can't be a Scottish thing because Inverness and Prestwick and Glasgow are all efficient and friendly. It's been like this for decades and I often wonder why.

[RealFish]

EDI gorundhandling is some of the worst in my experience and is staffed by officious and unhelpful jobsworth's. It can't be a Scottish thing because Inverness and Prestwick and Glasgow are all efficient and friendly. It's been like this for decades and I often wonder why.

I can't speak for Prestwick or Inverness, but I wonder if the answer lies in that clever 1980's ad campaign: 'GlasgowSmiles better'

[ve3id]

Ahead of schedule currently routing direct to the final approach crowed the captain of the inbound flight to Edinburgh this evening. More verbiage about how early we were as we arrived on stand. 55 minutes later we were finally released and we listened to a litany of excuses. Apparently due to I kid you not, covid of course, there was only one set of steps @ Edinburgh and these were nowhere to be found. The lad behind me mildly enquired and complained to the senior cabin crew and was barked at in return ‘to not take his frustration out on the staff’. Very precious and unjustified. Having enjoyed a packet of crisps and a bottle of water as our in flight ‘refreshment’ I can only say that the former national carrier is a national embarrassment. Yes I know times are tough but really.
What do you expect from Angloflot? The time I flew with them and the stew looked down her nose at me when I asked for cream for my coffee was the last time I ever flew with them! OK, it wasn't their fault, but there is no need for them to be rude.

[old,not bold]

a total of 41 people have or are suspected of catching COVID from flying..That sounds very like one of those statistics where you say "they cannot possibly know that," and it turns out to be an estimate based on spurious grounds, aka "complete guess". This applied to most of the data presented as solid facts by Chris Whitty (for UK readers only) a few evening ago, but at least the word "Estimate" was clearly visible on the charts, even though Dr Whitty failed to point that out.

[DCS99]

Due to the crisis you mention, many air crew have been sat on their behinds for the past 7 months... PPRuNe provides the vent we would usually reserve for cruise chatter! You did just find time out of your crisis-ridden day to trawl through the 5 pages yourself, did you not?! ;)

We in the business for 000s of years combined are all just venting our frustrations.
Everyone has a limit.
50% Salary reductions in the Middle East
Kurtzarbeit in Germany
New contracts in Europe
Mass redundancies everywhere.

Better we all vent about airstairs, slots, taxi times and crisp flavours than do something stupid.
I know of suicides since this crisis started.
Better to complain about the crisps...

[olster]

Cheers DCS99, I agree. For those above you are not the arbiter of what goes into pprune. Secondly particularly cabin crew(e) you obviously do not do irony as your little bitchy comments every couple of pages extended the thread even longer. Hilarious. I am well aware of the current crisis affecting aviation which saddens me greatly. However that does not absolve BA from providing a normal service. This does not include Bollinger but it does include the steps to get off. Just for balance I took the same flight a week later and it was all seamless apart from the stale crisps.

[SunnyUpHere]

My own experience of EDI through the years was mostly sub-standard, so I doubt Covid-related issues have made much difference. On a few occasions in a busy security hall I have seen the change happen where bags suddenly flow easily through the scanner with no diversion to the "bag check" line which has backed up. It's understandable I suppose. Many passengers have two or even three trays - and get shouted at to take them all to the single tray area to refill their bags. Even LHR does this better.

Unable to board because the corridor is closed to allow arrivals from another gate ambling past was common enough - no big deal except for the subsequent missed TO slot / late LHR arrival / missed connection etc.

Arriving at EDI early, waiting for a gate/jetty/steps - not unusual. Deplaning onto a bus to be driven all the way back across the airport, stopping (it seems) every few yards for various traffic, to arrive at the newest/latest entry point - which then requires an amazingly long walk back to the arrivals hall. Hopefully you have no luggage to wait for - that can be a legendary period in which time seems to stand still.

Not all is bad - immigration has improved considerably. After the absolute shambles of the first and second versions of passport reading machines, they now work well and quickly.

To be fair, EDI is primarily a shopping mall with some nice eateries, and the world's most expensive car park. Sometimes they remember there is a runway attached....

Unless EDI is essential, personally I would take the train to MAN which is a better experience by some distance. NCL is good, but of course much smaller.

[tictack67]

My own experience of EDI through the years was mostly sub-standard, so I doubt Covid-related issues have made much difference. On a few occasions in a busy security hall I have seen the change happen where bags suddenly flow easily through the scanner with no diversion to the "bag check" line which has backed up. It's understandable I suppose. Many passengers have two or even three trays - and get shouted at to take them all to the single tray area to refill their bags. Even LHR does this better.

Unable to board because the corridor is closed to allow arrivals from another gate ambling past was common enough - no big deal except for the subsequent missed TO slot / late LHR arrival / missed connection etc.

Arriving at EDI early, waiting for a gate/jetty/steps - not unusual. Deplaning onto a bus to be driven all the way back across the airport, stopping (it seems) every few yards for various traffic, to arrive at the newest/latest entry point - which then requires an amazingly long walk back to the arrivals hall. Hopefully you have no luggage to wait for - that can be a legendary period in which time seems to stand still.

Not all is bad - immigration has improved considerably. After the absolute shambles of the first and second versions of passport reading machines, they now work well and quickly.

To be fair, EDI is primarily a shopping mall with some nice eateries, and the world's most expensive car park. Sometimes they remember there is a runway attached....

Unless EDI is essential, personally I would take the train to MAN which is a better experience by some distance. NCL is good, but of course much smaller.

Wow, I find it hard to believe someone would take a 3.5 hour train journey or 4 hour drive to avoid Edinburgh airport.

BAA under invested in Edinburgh for years, spending money elsewhere.

In the 8 years (including this covid year) it has flourished with routes and passenger numbers outside of the BAA. Routes I personally would never have thought when I worked there in the 80s

[SunnyUpHere]

I should have clarified it more. Most of my travel is long haul, and Cathay / HKG is my main carrier/ hub. So EDI to LHR to HKG or Carlisle to MAN to HKG is pretty much equal in overall time.

[4468]

Wow, I find it hard to believe someone would take a 3.5 hour train journey or 4 hour drive to avoid Edinburgh airport.
Why is it so hard to believe?

As you say, central London to central Edinburgh is advertised as a total travel time by train of 3:30.

The flight from (for example) Heathrow to Edinburgh airport is advertised by BA as 1:25. But don’t forget to add in your travel time between both airports and their city centres. A comfortable check in time, plus time to move through ‘security’ and the shopping centres laughingly called Terminals. Plus boarding and baggage reclaim should you have had to put any items in the hold. Then add in delays for stand allocation.

For city centre to city centre, I doubt there’s a cigarette paper between the two total travel times.

Add in the associated additional transport costs of travelling to and from airports, and actually flying between some city pairs starts to look pretty non-sensical to me?

What’s the attraction?

[DaveReidUK]

As you say, central London to central Edinburgh is advertised as a total travel time by train of 3:30.

Fastest London/Edinburgh train journey is about four and a quarter hours.

[tictack67]

Why is it so hard to believe?

As you say, central London to central Edinburgh is advertised as a total travel time by train of 3:30.

The flight from (for example) Heathrow to Edinburgh airport is advertised by BA as 1:25. But don’t forget to add in your travel time between both airports and their city centres. A comfortable check in time, plus time to move through ‘security’ and the shopping centres laughingly called Terminals. Plus boarding and baggage reclaim should you have had to put any items in the hold. Then add in delays for stand allocation.

For city centre to city centre, I doubt there’s a cigarette paper between the two total travel times.

Add in the associated additional transport costs of travelling to and from airports, and actually flying between some city pairs starts to look pretty non-sensical to me?

What’s the attraction?

Apologies you did not make it clear you lived in Carlise so Manchester a better option.

It read like you were nearer Edinburgh and would use Manchester by preference.
The train time I mentioned was Edinburgh to Manchester's I never mentioned London.

[Paul Lupp]

Sort-of follow-up to this:
My younger daughter is currently "trapped" with others on a plane at LHR at the moment - arrived from EDI and the jetty at LHR T5 has broken as it went to "meet" the plane. So they are stuck like sardines waiting for steps to be brought to the plane to get off. Whose fault is this fiasco? BA's, Heathrow Airport's, someone else's.... or is it just "fate"? The plane will have been on the ground about the same length as the flight itself was, before passengers can start to deplane.

Is this a shambles or not ??

[RogueOne]

How has this excuse for a thread got 7 pages!!

This is the real shambles.

[DaveReidUK]

How has this excuse for a thread got 7 pages!!

Tweak the page size in Control Panel and it's only 5. :O

[MARKEYD]

Dear God .,,,
I thought this was all over but now we have to listen to someone’s daughter “‘ trapped “‘ on board a plane

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Sort-of follow-up to this:
My younger daughter is currently "trapped" with others on a plane at LHR at the moment - arrived from EDI and the jetty at LHR T5 has broken as it went to "meet" the plane. So they are stuck like sardines waiting for steps to be brought to the plane to get off. Whose fault is this fiasco? BA's, Heathrow Airport's, someone else's.... or is it just "fate"? The plane will have been on the ground about the same length as the flight itself was, before passengers can start to deplane.

Is this a shambles or not ??
It's BA.
Look the operation is screwed and has been for weeks. I suspect they're understaffing to save money, they have no choice, but the balance is tricky. It's now very common to land and be waiting quite some time for a stand, or steps. It's also very common for buses to be exceedingly late. What had almost become a well oiled machine has been thrown into disrepair with good people leaving and COVID procedures meaning the likes of buses being cleaned and then cleaned again. Operational efficiency is gone.

Is it BA's fault? 100% But it's not going to be fixed quickly, they're doing their best but the outcome is an ongoing poor passenger experience.