JETPACK for GNAAS

[Aucky]

I thought it was April 1st for a moment...

Jet suit paramedic tested in the Lake District 'could save lives'

Link (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-54331994)

[TUPE]

“Job on!”...

[Torquetalk]

Rule 1: DON‘T lose references
Rule 2: BE on the ground before the power runs out.

Pretty cool bit of kit. Just needs a hoist.

[Tashengurt]

On BBC breakfast I think they mentioned a 9 minute flight time? They also mentioned using it on mountains such as Helvellyn.
I can't help wondering if the paramedic isn't going to be left up a mountain with however many lbs of rocket gear to lug down?

[hueyracer]

Looks more like they are trying hard to find a "purpose" for their toy.....

Don´t get me wrong:
Its an impressive piece of engineering, and obviously a great toy.

But i don´t ever see a "medic" using this to get to a patient instead of using a car or a helicopter......or a fire fighter to use this getting on top of a burning building......

[OldLurker]

Looks more like they are trying hard to find a "purpose" for their toy.....
Don´t get me wrong:
Its an impressive piece of engineering, and obviously a great toy.
But i don´t ever see a "medic" using this to get to a patient instead of using a car or a helicopter......or a fire fighter to use this getting on top of a burning building......As the BBC story says, with the jetpack a paramedic could "fly" to a fell top in 90 seconds rather than taking 30 minutes on foot. That's important time saving. This is rugged terrain: car (even 4x4) can't get near many places; helicopter would likely take much more than 30 minutes to scramble and arrive on scene.

[OldLurker]

I bet other paramedics are GNAAShing their teeth.
(sorry)

[hueyracer]

As the BBC story says, with the jetpack a paramedic could "fly" to a fell top in 90 seconds rather than taking 30 minutes on foot. That's important time saving. This is rugged terrain: car (even 4x4) can't get near many places; helicopter would likely take much more than 30 minutes to scramble and arrive on scene.

And what do you think how long it will take the medic to take off the equipment, and finally get to start working on the "patient?"?

What do you think how many times it happens that a patient is only 4 flight minutes away.. If the endurance of this thing is only 8 minutes?


Nah....!

[Tashengurt]

As the BBC story says, with the jetpack a paramedic could "fly" to a fell top in 90 seconds rather than taking 30 minutes on foot. That's important time saving. This is rugged terrain: car (even 4x4) can't get near many places; helicopter would likely take much more than 30 minutes to scramble and arrive on scene.

But they still have to "scramble" and arrive on scene.
I've no doubt GNAAS are getting these for free or next to nothing but numbers of units are still going to be very low.

[SWBKCB]

I've no doubt GNAAS are getting these for free or next to nothing but numbers of units are still going to be very low.

I was thinking the opposite - something to spend their money on

[TLDNMCL]

On BBC breakfast I think they mentioned a 9 minute flight time? They also mentioned using it on mountains such as Helvellyn.
I can't help wondering if the paramedic isn't going to be left up a mountain with however many lbs of rocket gear to lug down?
I imagine the medic taking the role of first responder, giving the life-saving treatment until the rest of the team get there. I can't see the heli crew refusing a lift back down! Of course the medic is going to need to be based quite close to any incident in the first place given the limited flight time. I can see limited, but realistic uses.

[Tashengurt]

I was thinking the opposite - something to spend their money on

Inventor said he'd previously sold them for £340,000. I can't see the GNAAS being that flush, especially after they've just bought a new aircraft.

[griffothefog]

They’re be better off sticking to polishing their own rocket rather than trying to fly one.....
Lovely boys though 😷😂😂😂

[Two's in]

Definitely reduces the time for the operative to get to the casualty - especially if they become one and the same...

[hueyracer]

I imagine the medic taking the role of first responder, giving the life-saving treatment until the rest of the team get there. I can't see the heli crew refusing a lift back down! Of course the medic is going to need to be based quite close to any incident in the first place given the limited flight time. I can see limited, but realistic uses.


There will be massive issues with Dangerous Goods restrictions, taking the equipment and the patient back together in the same helicopter without the required paperwork....

[GrayHorizonsHeli]

if you look at it through a narrow lens, yes it has merits.
at one time people thought hanging off a rope whilst a helicopter hovered over a patient was crazy too. What about parachuting medics into the forest? crazy too.

but, zoom back that lens and take a wider picture, there many things that wont get this off the ground in the near future.

My main concern is that this could be successful on great weather days. but how many people need rescue when the weathers perfect? right off the bat this literally severs off a huge chunk of success stories and replaces them with reports and inquiries as to what went wrong..
I could go on, but I dont think i need to convince many of you this is a good idea that will end up bad in short order.

[Two's in]

...My main concern is that this could be successful on great weather days. but how many people need rescue when the weathers perfect? ...

"...the Board determined due to dense fog near the summit, that the jet pack operative's glasses had become steamed up. In an attempt to wipe his glasses, the operative became temporarily inverted which caused the jet efflux to ignite his starboard trouser leg. Distracted by the burning clothing and momentarily disoriented, it is believed the operative incorrectly selected the "TOGA" power setting button which was adjacent to the "Demister" switch. The sudden increase in power caused an immediate bowel evacuation, the secondary effect of which was a CG shift which then pitched the operative back to the vertical. The fecal weight loss combined with the TOGA setting generated an immediate high velocity climb. The increased power setting consumed the remaining fuel at a far higher rate, and the jet pack flamed out shortly afterwards, while still firmly IMC. The parabolic arc described by the jet pack led to the operative arriving in a near vertical dive at a high velocity some 20 feet from the stranded hiker. The hiker reported the operative was still on fire with steamed up glasses shortly before impact. Rescuers were able to use a spatula and cigar box to recover the remains. The hiker walked down from the mountain unharmed."

[[email protected]]

Gray - plenty of people need rescuing on good weather days - that is when you will find thousands of walkers and climbers in the hills. The MRT's staple fare is lower leg injuries and I've lost count of how many jobs have been like that on glorious days.

I understand the jetsuits are not exactly a quick-don or doff item so time saved getting up the hill could be offset by getting the kit sorted.

However, I want one:)

[helipixman]

Could be a good idea, looks like it has to hug the terrain, what is its max height ? What would happen if it had to go up a cliff face, shear drop etc, plenty of them in the Lake district.

Example could it take off and then go over a shear drop or would the pilot just fall out of the sky ?

I want one also, soon we will all be going to our local shops in/on one !

[212man]

Could be a good idea, looks like it has to hug the terrain, what is its max height ? What would happen if it had to go up a cliff face, shear drop etc, plenty of them in the Lake district.

Example could it take off and then go over a shear drop or would the pilot just fall out of the sky ?

I want one also, soon we will all be going to our local shops in/on one !

I don’t think it has to stay low (from what I’ve seen of this device elsewhere) - my take was that it was just risk based for this role. Staying close to the ground minimises risk to the paramedic who is basically just running very quickly up the hill.

[Tashengurt]

Could be a good idea, looks like it has to hug the terrain, what is its max height ? What would happen if it had to go up a cliff face, shear drop etc, plenty of them in the Lake district.

Example could it take off and then go over a shear drop or would the pilot just fall out of the sky ?

I want one also, soon we will all be going to our local shops in/on one !

The inventor said that they can go high but they stay low for safety.

[PANews]

Wow and I thought the Israelis had it all covered by sending in drones to pick up the injured parties!

Gives the term flying doctor a whole new meaning.

Great publicity for someone..... and a change from the death and disease of COVID19...... no more.

[finalchecksplease]

I watched a documentary: "Own the sky, jet pack dreamers" a couple months ago (it is still available to watch on BBC iPlayer, worth a watch).
Unless the technology suggested here makes it a lot easier to fly, it will take a lot of training to get those paramedics up to a safe standard and once proficient a lot of recurrence training because I assume it will be a perishable skill.

[ShyTorque]

All they need now is a helicopter to drop the paramedic at the base of a hill near the scene of the incident and then.....

[Ascend Charlie]

As long as the paramedic knows EXACTLY where the victim is, and that there is a clear area to set down next to him/her, it might be OK. But there isn't a lot of time available to look for the victim or find a landing spot, before gravity finds it for you.

Nearly as good a daydream as the flying car.

[capngrog]

Are we all sure this is not just clever CGI? The jet pack pilot would need to have very impressive upper body strength to control the thrust of the forearm-mounted jet packs. Just a small unplanned arm movement might place the pilot in a position of losing control of the arm-mounted jet packs. Very few gymnasts can perform the "iron cross". Has anyone seen one of these operate for real instead of in pixels?

Just wonderin'.

Cheers,
Grog

[gijoe]

Are we all sure this is not just clever CGI? The jet pack pilot would need to have very impressive upper body strength to control the thrust of the forearm-mounted jet packs. Just a small unplanned arm movement might place the pilot in a position of losing control of the arm-mounted jet packs. Very few gymnasts can perform the "iron cross". Has anyone seen one of these operate for real instead of in pixels?

Just wonderin'.

Cheers,
Grog

Was at Bournemouth a couple of years ago - impressive stuff but the questions above about training requirements and skill currency must be valid.

[hueyracer]

And don't forget the licensing issues.... Finally, this thing is a manned aerial vehicle, that needs to be properly licensed and insured.. With proper training courses at an ATO for the pilots...
😂

[TWT]

And just when it's all looking good for a perfect landing, the jetpack burners set the dry grass on fire and turn your patient into toast.

[hueyracer]

Just did some look-up on that "thing"...

They say its max speed is 120 km/h.
Its endurance (before running out of fuel) is about 8-9 minutes...(lets say 8 for this calculation).

120 km/h for 8 minutes (2 Km/min) equals a maximum distance covered of 16 Km.
Cut that in half (going there and back) makes it 8 Km.
Now take into consideration that-when you go up and down a hill or mountain, you cannot go "max speed"-turns the operational range into something like 6-7 Km around the base (at maximum).

Then again:
The medic/doctor needs to put on the suit (he will not be wearing it sitting around all day on alert, right?), needs to fly there, needs to take the suit off (he cannot work on the patient while wearing smoking hot turbine packs on his hands), and-lets not forget-he will need his medic pack as well.....


So all in all:
Best case would be a 30-minute-notice to move, followed by a flight of (at max!) 6 Km distance from base, followed by another 5-10 minutes taking the suit off.....

That´s 45 minutes from alert to "start working on the patient"......

How is that any quicker than an ambulance, or a rescue helicopter?

[Chris P Bacon]

Isn't it all a well thought out publicity stunt by GNAAS to keep them in the press/on the news, when charities are desperate for donations?

[TUPE]

Isn't it all a well thought out publicity stunt by GNAAS to keep them in the press/on the news, when charities are desperate for donations?
Bingo! Ladies and Gentlemen we have a winner!

[MarcK]

And don't forget the licensing issues.... Finally, this thing is a manned aerial vehicle, that needs to be properly licensed and insured.. With proper training courses at an ATO for the pilots...
😂
I didn't see any place to store the POH

[Deltasierra010]

The likelihood of having a jet pack and pilot trained to use it close to any incident is remote, you would need a chopper on call to transport the jet pack outfit close to the scene, a nice idea that ain’t going to be much use.

[homonculus]

The likelihood of having a jet pack and pilot trained to use it close to any incident is remote

And the paramedic has to trained to fly the jet pack, and remain current when GNAAS will want him to be usefully employed at all the mundane call outs.

Interested in the payload....cant see how much useful kit could be carried, and if the non superman paramedics then take an hour to walk up the medical benefits are meagre

[GrayHorizonsHeli]

I sure hope they arent doing heli rescues for those twisted ankles.

you wrap them, give them a walking stick and make them learn the lesson the hard way and walk them off the hill.
definately not life threatening on a nice sunny day

[pilotmike]

It appears a perfect way to create another casualty - a case of 'create your own market'.

[roscoe1]

Don't forget that most HEMS isn't really made or trained for doing SAR. Landing at off airport sites and flying limited IFR is about as dicey as it gets. One person might be able to get to a victim and stabilize them but moving, packaging a patient to get into a helicopter takes more than one guy who is likley exhausted from donning the suit, getting there and doffing his gear. Just send the helicopter in the first place. Since they'd likley need a helicopter anyway, just shorthaul an EMT in and land as near as possible. Much faster. Although.......it would probably make for some awesome GoPro video. Also, I wonder, can these little turbo jet engines set things on fire? They aren't the hydrogen peroxide jet packs like the Bell jet belts or yore. I've only seen video of them flying off fire resistant surfaces and over water. It was news to people when they realized that Ospreys fighting fires with buckets could actually burn things and melt Bambi buckets if folks weren't careful of the exhaust.

[jimf671]

What could possibly go wrong?

The most effective plan so far for reducing the paramedic population.

[hueyracer]

What could possibly go wrong?

The most effective plan so far for reducing the paramedic population.

Ah, I think we got this all wrong....

Maybe the plan is to have a doctor and a medic, both equipped with jet packs....

Then they fly up to the patient, and bring him down on a stretcher that they share amongst each other....

😂

[[email protected]]

I sure hope they arent doing heli rescues for those twisted ankles.

you wrap them, give them a walking stick and make them learn the lesson the hard way and walk them off the hill.
definately not life threatening on a nice sunny day And then they fall again on the way down, only this time badly injuring themselves and now you have to get the MRT and helicopter out anyway.

Casualties who can be walked off the mountain usually are but I don't think I could walk far with a broken ankle.........

[Baldeep Inminj]

I think the point here is that like all things, the days of the manned SAR helicopter are limited. However they are not over yet, and there will be another generation of them for sure, but it may be the last.
The RAF are procuring the Tempest as their next Gen Fighter. It can be either manned or unmanned, and the Chief if the Air Staff has said it will be the UK’s last fighter with a seat for a pilot. Now, I know that Air Combat and SAR are not the same sport, but the principle is clear.
Drone and UAV technology is progressing and developing at an exponential rate. I feel the most likely outcome will be other solutions being used alongside helicopters in the medium term, but in my opinion their utility will continue to increase, until they become the reference solution.

This particular device is not the solution though. This is the stone that Barnes Wallis skipped across a lake - but the bouncing bomb is coming.

[PaulH1]

And once the CAA have certified it, that 8 minutes endurance will be a problem. Alternate plus holding fuel and 5% contingency. It would never get off the ground!

[PANews]

Forgive me for being an old cynic but that statement by the Chief of Air Staff about the Tempest next Gen Fighter and it being manned or unmanned... Wow, the Chief of the Air Staff has said it will be the last manned fighter with a seat for a pilot... I am sure that Duncan Sands said the same thing about the Lightning back in 1957.... so forget that tosh.

This is all very complex, no point taking one paramedic to the scene of the incident by Jet Pack if you need someone else to hold the other end of the stretcher to get the customer off the mountain .... no point sending in an unmanned air ambulance to pick up an unconcious patient because they are simply not going to get into it... so hey lets send a helicopter with a doctor and a couple of paramedics ready and willing to 'Yomp' to the scene of the need!

[helipixman]

This is all very complex, no point taking one paramedic to the scene of the incident by Jet Pack if you need someone else to hold the other end of the stretcher to get the customer off the mountain .... no point sending in an unmanned air ambulance to pick up an unconcious patient because they are simply not going to get into it... so hey lets send a helicopter with a doctor and a couple of paramedics ready and willing to 'Yomp' to the scene of the need!

Solution... send two medics/ jet packs one for each end of the stretcher ;)

Helicopter all the time !

[ShyTorque]

Surely the technology now exists for an all weather drone to fly to the scene, autonomously grab the casualty in a device like those fluffy toy slot machines at the amusement arcades and go straight to hospital.

[Fostex]

Drones can't do an RSI at scene... HEMS isn't just about retrieval!

[PANews]

Well if you manage to put such a device in service ..... the drone that autonomously grabs the casualty in a device like those fluffy toy slot machines ... let me know and I will self isolate forever.... my experience of those manually guided grab slot machine is that they do not work! So there you are with your broken leg on the hillside - after your 500 foot fall - when without a by your leave this 'thing' grabs you by the scruff of the neck and drags you down the remaining 3,000 feet!

Bring it on!

[ShyTorque]

Well if you manage to put such a device in service ..... the drone that autonomously grabs the casualty in a device like those fluffy toy slot machines ... let me know and I will self isolate forever.... my experience of those manually guided grab slot machine is that they do not work! So there you are with your broken leg on the hillside - after your 500 foot fall - when without a by your leave this 'thing' grabs you by the scruff of the neck and drags you down the remaining 3,000 feet!

Bring it on!

Well, having done my time as an SAR pilot and police, where we pre-dated all but one air ambulance and occasionally carried casualties off the hills and from RTAs etc, of course I was very much joking. As well as the flying claw dropping the odd casualty from its uncertain grasp, I can imagine an unwilling and struggling sheep inadvertently finding itself delivered to A & E... :ok:

[Ascend Charlie]

Who is going to be feeding the $2 coins into the fluffy bunny machine every time it misses grabbing the patient? Could be expensive.

[Baldeep Inminj]

...Sooooo...Does anyone believe that 200 years from now we will be using manned helicopters for rescues?

Really?

There will be a time when the manned SAR capability is obsolete. Will it be in 200 years, or 100, or 50, or 20...

I don’t know. But I do know it’s coming.

It is inevitable.

[hueyracer]

...Sooooo...Does anyone believe that 200 years from now we will be using manned helicopters for rescues?

Really?

There will be a time when the manned SAR capability is obsolete. Will it be in 200 years, or 100, or 50, or 20...

I don’t know. But I do know it’s coming.

It is inevitable.



I don´t know about you, so i am only speaking for myself now:

I don´t care what people do in 200 years from now.
I won´t be around, and i also have no influence on that time in history......

[Bell_ringer]

In 200 years, those that aren’t on fire will be under sea water, so you’re more likely to need a fireproof boat.

[RetiredBA/BY]

This concept is complete nonsense. I have been operating gas turbines in model aircraft since their inception over 20 years ago and now own 12 all installed in aircraft with over 2000 turbine flights logged. All are beautiful pieces of precision engineering and start (automatically) and run superbly. Mine have been extremely reliable but not without a very low rate of problems.

That said, there is the occasional flameout or mechanical failure, bearings, compressor or turbine blades being the main culprits fir mechanical failure, fuel system problems for flameouts.

To use these engines for life dependant functions in remote areas Is, in my opinion, ludicrous.

The Consequences of a main lift engine failure probably serious injury or fatal.

Totally unrealistic.

[[email protected]]

Shortly expecting a word from one of our 'Single engine is super safe' brethren:E

[Maoraigh1]

How does the Jetpack handle strong, gusty, winds?
I believe many mountain rescues are not done in flat calm conditions.

[Tashengurt]

How does the Jetpack handle strong, gusty, winds?
I believe many mountain rescues are not done in flat calm conditions.

True but many are because they draw out the unfit and ill prepared.

[Tashengurt]

I'm sceptical that this will ever become a reality but if you've ever seen a HEMS team lugging their kit to a casualty you can see how one person, who perhaps got ready en-route, going ahead with this kit to provide immediate care such as CPR, defib, pain meds etc.
I don't think anyone's suggesting it's deployed alone.

[Radgirl]

...Sooooo...Does anyone believe that 200 years from now we will be using manned helicopters for rescues?

Really?

There will be a time when the manned SAR capability is obsolete. Will it be in 200 years, or 100, or 50, or 20...

I don’t know. But I do know it’s coming.

It is inevitable.
Baldeep Inminj is offline Report Post (https://www.pprune.org/report.php?p=10896556)

It is unlikely we can replace a human to actually provide healthcare en scene in the next 2o years - we will use smart glasses etc to provide instructions (as I was doing by radio in 1982!!) but some medical procedures need a human.

The mode of transport is irrelevant to the health system as long as it is safe and fast and.....cheap. So if you can produce a safe drone that carries medical team and patient and is a dollar or pound cheaper you are onto a winner. Of course, you will need room for the additional person who often provides the grunt to load the patient....currently called the pilot :ok:

[helipixman]

I think it has been mentioned before, how much upper/lower arm strength is required to fly this Jetpack ? Jet nozzels on the end of flimsy arms, one slight twitch and the pilot will be going through the skies like a Catherine wheel ? How many jet engines have we seen mounted on a flimsy moveable pylon ? cannot think of any, they are all fixed to the airframe.

Maybe with the Catherine wheel in mind they should launch it on November 5th !

[capngrog]

The question of upper body strength requirements was posed back in Post #26 on 29th September. The question remains unanswered. I looked up the Bournemouth jet pack demo and found this video:

https://youtu.be/3RlCyutlgyg

Apparently two jet pack fliers were involved in the demo, one of which, hits the drink at 20 seconds into the 40 second video. I've looked at other discussions of the video, and some of them fail to mention the unplanned dunking and otherwise ignore details of the "demonstration".

In this age of all too realistic CGI, I'm afraid that I'm a bit of Doubting Thomas with respect to all of this. Has anyone seen technical/engineering details of the design of these jetpacks? It would be interesting to see how the thrust is divided among the 5 jet engines, and how thrust control is managed ... among other details.

Cheers,
Grog

[ShyTorque]

One can only wonder what the OEI capabilities are..... :eek:

[Bravo73]

In this age of all too realistic CGI, I'm afraid that I'm a bit of Doubting Thomas with respect to all of this. Has anyone seen technical/engineering details of the design of these jetpacks? It would be interesting to see how the thrust is divided among the 5 jet engines, and how thrust control is managed ... among other details.


There are far too many videos of this particular ‘system’, both online and on TV, for them to be faked. If they were fake, their CGI budget would run into the millions, far more than it has cost to develop the system in the first place.

As for the details of the system, have you tried searching for their patent applications, both in the UK and worldwide? They might reveal some of the technical details.

This is very definitely a ‘thing’. However, as has been pointed out for multiple reasons, HEMS isn’t going to be one of the applications.

[BigDotStu]

In this age of all too realistic CGI, I'm afraid that I'm a bit of Doubting Thomas with respect to all of this. Has anyone seen technical/engineering details of the design of these jetpacks? It would be interesting to see how the thrust is divided among the 5 jet engines, and how thrust control is managed ... among other details.

Gravity Industries let Colin Furze loose on it - took him a few hours on their training rig before he was able to go untethered. There is some detail on how the system works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QCZTACuHYc

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

I'm sceptical that this will ever become a reality but if you've ever seen a HEMS team lugging their kit to a casualty

...then you've seen a group of people (including the casualty) who need a SAR helicopter. Of course, GNAAS are known for being extremely reluctant to call in a rescue helicopter...

[mickjoebill]

https://fb.watch/cSWQyB0WfW/

Hot on the heels of a post asking for historical info of the first helicopter rescue, comes the dawn of first jet pack rescue! Well, a trial at least.
In regard to fuel as dangerous goods cargo, could the pack be transported in a typical air ambo without any additional paperwork?
I'm thinking cloud cover allowing helicopter access to the base of a mountain to drop off jetpac pilot. Such weather windows unlikely in Wales? Video says only 6 days training so maybe there will be enough of these kits around to be deployed by road?
Less or more physically/mentally arduous than climbing to the patient?

Mjb
​​​​

[Agile]

He goes to the patient with his jet suit and do what ???, he does not have one pound of equipement ...!

That is what a paramedic needs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnNFYhuuoLQ

2 large backpacks full of medical supply of all sorts so heavy they need to fly a B3

[Bravo73]

They did something similar a couple of years ago in the Lake District:

https://youtu.be/-7N24DsQMkU

There will be a thread about it somewhere.

[mickjoebill]

Interview with paramedic.
https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1522117175531687936?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembe d%7Ctwterm%5E1522117175531687936%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.itv.com%2Fnews%2Fborder%2F2022-05-05%2Fflying-paramedics-in-jet-suits-could-be-saving-lives-by-this-summer

[Ant T]

Agile - “He goes to the patient with his jet suit and do what ???, he does not have one pound of equipement ...!”

- according to other reports available, they have the capability to take “10 to 15kg of medical kit, including a defibrillator and patient-monitoring devices which are strapped in pouches on the pilot's legs and chest”

Bravo73 - “They did something similar a couple of years ago in the Lake District”

- again, according to other reports, it is apparently close to ready for operational use this summer in the Lake District.

[Cornish Jack]

Currency training will be ...? Additional costs will be borne by ... from ??????

[jimf671]

I think you'll probably find that the Norwegian approach of longlining the air ambulance paramedic into difficult incident locations and then using the SAR fleet for extraction is safer, cheaper and quicker.

[XA290]

At times like these, I turn to the bible. In particular:-

John Chapter 11 Verse 35.

[havick]

Are we taking bets as to how long until the jet pack paramedic needs a rescue paramedic themselves? 😂

[Two's in]

I'm genuinely curious how fuel level and endurance is indicated/calculated, I'm certainly not an expert on jet pack operation, but I'm thinking the engine out characteristics are quite limited. A stopwatch would definitely be an MEL item.

[Radgirl]

You can carry pain relief, a splint and some intravenous fluids which have their benefits for an hour or so but I am not really sure why it will be that much faster than a helicopter. Then there is the issue of what happens if your lowly paid paramedic who has now also undergone flight training isnt up to speed on weather and gets weathered in. Add in the issues of navigation and a low hours jet paramedic being able to actually search with limited flight endurance and you have all the ingredients for another medical nonsense article.

[XA290]

The following was posted by Two’s In on the last thread about this nonsense and in case they don’t get round to re-posting it I will as it’s hilarious……..

"...the Board determined due to dense fog near the summit, that the jet pack operative's glasses had become steamed up. In an attempt to wipe his glasses, the operative became temporarily inverted which caused the jet efflux to ignite his starboard trouser leg. Distracted by the burning clothing and momentarily disoriented, it is believed the operative incorrectly selected the "TOGA" power setting button which was adjacent to the "Demister" switch. The sudden increase in power caused an immediate bowel evacuation, the secondary effect of which was a CG shift which then pitched the operative back to the vertical. The fecal weight loss combined with the TOGA setting generated an immediate high velocity climb. The increased power setting consumed the remaining fuel at a far higher rate, and the jet pack flamed out shortly afterwards, while still firmly IMC. The parabolic arc described by the jet pack led to the operative arriving in a near vertical dive at a high velocity some 20 feet from the stranded hiker. The hiker reported the operative was still on fire with steamed up glasses shortly before impact. Rescuers were able to use a spatula and cigar box to recover the remains. The hiker walked down from the mountain unharmed."

[finalchecksplease]

Thanks for reposting that XA290, hadn't read that hilarious "accident report extract" by Two's In :D in the previous thread.

[TWT]

It's the middle of summer. No rain for months. The thick long grass is very dry. Someone breaks their leg on the mountainside while hiking.

Along comes our paramedic hero and, as they flare for landing, they ignite the grass and turn both of them to toast.

[[email protected]]

Of course they will undergo IIMC training...................................................

[Davef68]

Hmm, as someone who has spent a fair amount of time in the hills (Scotland rather than Cumbria, but the terrain is similar) I can see this might provide some limited usefulness where time is critical (Heart attack, serious bleeding) to stabilise the casualty until the SAR/AAmb team can get there, but as others have said, getting the jet pack to the nearest location to the casualty will take time. I had a friend who had a heart attack on the hill, his friends did (unsuccessful) CPR, but having quick access to a defibrillator might have saved him, but they were 10 miles from the nearest road.

Most MRT callouts are for minor non-life threatening injuries or lost walkers (and drones are great for the latter).

I also doubt it's usefulness in more mountainous terrain - you're not going to use one of them on a crag for example

[albatross]

I could see the use of this technology in an unmanned drone to bring equipment to a scene in place of the EMTs /. Paramedics having to carry it up a hill or over rough terrain. This would allow them to reach the patient sooner with the plus of quickly receiving additional needed equipment if required. A good way to get any extraneous equipment back down the mountain. Just a thought.

As an aside:
One bright guy suggested a stretcher with electric motors driving reversible fans much like bow and stern thrusters on ships to stabilize the stretcher on a hoist cable. You would only need a battery large enough to power it for perhaps 10 minutes max. ( we have all seen videos of wildly spinning stretchers.). The snag at the time was how they would be controlled a problem which todays computer technology may have an easy solution for.
It was an interesting discussion point during a boring night shift as various configurations were debated and sketched out. We decided upon 2 tubes 4-6 inch in diameter about 2 feet long each containing an entire system which could be snapped on the front and back of any stretcher with a small controller snapped on the side.
This was in the early 90s before computer tech had developed to today's level of sophistication. Perhaps today it could be totally automatic using a basic “heading hold” program.
It was all soon forgotten and nothing was sent up the food chain as the “High Priced Help” were, at the time, the type who actively discouraged suggestions from the coal face. “If it was a good idea WE would have thought of it already!”

[Tango and Cash]

Albatross,

Company in Colorado has made it happen.
Vita Inclinata (vitatech.co) (https://vitatech.co/)

[albatross]

Albatross,

Company in Colorado has made it happen.
Vita Inclinata (vitatech.co) (https://vitatech.co/)

Thanks for the info.
Should have copyrighted or patented the idea! (just joking).
I assume a much smaller version of the system would be sufficient to stabilize a stretcher or other sling / hoist load.
Cheers
Albatross

[snakepit]

I think you'll probably find that the Norwegian approach of longlining the air ambulance paramedic into difficult incident locations and then using the SAR fleet for extraction is safer, cheaper and quicker.

Perhaps suitable for such a large land mass where there are more HEMS aircraft than SAR cabs? In the UK a good number of the HEMS cabs are at the same airfields as the SAR aircraft. Forget the longline and use the hoist that is already available and paid for, just sat waiting for a task! I could get onboard with that idea Jim if UK SAR was at max capacity but it’s far from it and an expensive asset to just there waiting for Retrival jobs while the UK spends even more money training another group of aviators to do what’s already available?!

[PANews]

Those HEMS units that decided to go for fitting hoists to their new airframes (Yorkshire and the H145 for example) simply found that the cost and training requirement to attain proficiency ~(albeit a limited 'fixed line' tasking, not reel them in) were prohibitive for the few occasions when they might wish to use it. That and the CAA not being keen on the idea set it aside, perhaps forever.

[aeromys]

Slightly off topic - PANews, you'll know, did the Met ever use their winch in anger?

[PANews]

As far as I am aware it was a similar story of 'not worth the effort' but they did dust it off. Most training was aimed at the fast roping. But if the wheel comes off the gear will not be fitted anyway so they will simply deliver the 'troops' to a rooftop from a low hover from whichever 145 is in the air.

They say people should check out and learn from times past....but they do not .... put it in the store is exactly what happened with the winch they fitted to the Bell 222 on delivery in 1980 - that saw even less attempts at training.

As with the Jet Pack, gear that is in the wrong place at the time of need simply does not get used. The best rescue the Met ever did in the 222 was rescuing a worker from the roof of a burning power station in April 1992. No equipment, no training, they opened the door from a low hover and invited the gent to step inside where it was cooler.

No mean feat from a helicopter that notoriously was unable to hover!