Service numbers old or recent?

[zetec2]

I have my original brass button stick embossed with the service number 893351 been in my possession for donkeys years (I was a 684*** App starting in 1958 so the numbering predates later entries !) have been trawling through service numbers and as far as can deduce it was/would have been issued to specifically WAAF in 1939 within a block of numbers, now am trying to pin it down further to maybe if a family still exists to pass it on to them, any ideas as to how I get to identify the individual ???, thanx Paul H

[unclenelli]

A few years ago I got my Grandfathers Army war record from SPVA, Kentigern House, Glasgow (192****)
If it's older, then maybe National Archives at Kew.


I can usually tell the difference between RAF Swinderby and RAF Halton recruits by service no.

My mate was a AC B******** and was x84246**
I was AC C******* x84247**

So there aren't many AC A******'s in front of us on the first intake at Haton on 9th Nov 1993!
(No1 School of Recruits, not Apprentices)

[zetec2]

Interesting ?, part of my query was that I joined in September 1958 at Halton with a 6 digit number 684***, the number on the button stick which has been in my possession since then (don't we hoard things ?) shows a 6 digit number that cannot possibly be a Halton number due to the sequencing etc, RAF records show that a block of 6 digit numbers were allocated to an intake of WAAF's in 1939 - did WAAF's get inducted at Padgate then ??? just hoping it triggers some memories and info.

[Out Of Trim]

When I joined in 1979, this was something I did not see at RAF Swinderby. Luckily for me, Brass Buttons were no more! :)

[Arfur Dent]

423****
Oct 1967.
never forget your service number do you

[staircase]

I remember sitting in the KG5 night club in Berlin circa 1980, watching the floor show with my crew, when a group of 'elderly gentlemen' entered.

One asked me if i was in the services, and I told him to mind his own business - it was Berlin during the cold war after all.

He then asked me if i was ashamed to admit it, and I said no, but it may pay to be discreet given where we were.

He then said that he was military, as were all his companions and showed me his ID. I said that it had no service number on it.

He then said that 'my dear boy, when one hits 2 stars and above, they don't bother with the number!'

I made my excuses and left.

[matkat]

For me it was Swinderby June 1976 S812****

[brakedwell]

423****
Oct 1967.
never forget your service number do you


Mine was 417****
Sept 1955
Haven't forgoteen mine either.

[golfbananajam]

In 1980, while languishing in DKMH Catterick, an old gentleman in the ward told me his number only had three digits. From memory he served at Catterick as part of the RFC/RAF during WW1. His wife was also in the same hospital and they celebrated their 60th wedding anniversary while I was there. Sadly, neither of them ever left the hospital.

[John Eacott]

Royal Navy officers in the 60s and 70s (& probably earlier) didn’t have ‘service numbers’. We were advised they would only be issued in times of war.

[Oldlae]

Halton Sept 1955, 81st Entry, my number 681XXX became V0681XXX in the late sixties.

[NRU74]

423****
Oct 1967.
never forget your service number do you

That looks South Cerney(ish)

[Mogwi]

Royal Navy officers in the 60s and 70s (& probably earlier) didn’t have ‘service numbers’. We were advised they would only be issued in times of war.


I was assured that it was because the Queen knew us all personally!

Mog

[twothree]

Royal Navy officers in the 60s and 70s (& probably earlier) didn’t have ‘service numbers’. We were advised they would only be issued in times of war.
So why have I a series of letters and numbers stuck in my mind from 1965??

[MPN11]

423****
Oct 1967.
never forget your service number do you
Direct Entry Aircrew, then.

Direct Entry GD(G)ATC back then was 433**** ... I know that 'cos I were one!

[esa-aardvark]

My late Father was 568XXX

[Radley]

Must be some 8141s out there

[PARALLEL TRACK]

Must be some 8141s out there
Plenty! NCA 70s/80s

[Herod]

423 should be a South Cerney number. 423xxxx Dec '64.

A few months ago I went in for surgery. The anaesthetist knew I was ex-service, and as I was going asked "last three". A bit of a surprise, but I told him, just before I went out. Not been asked that for well over thirty years.

[spitfirek5054]

Swinderby Nov 1971 S8098 ***

[Not Long Here]

OCTU 73 - H8026***
RNZAF 05 - H1018*** :) and years to go yet :)

[Shackman]

423xxxx - South Cerney/AOTS '66

[air pig]

PMRAFNS Cranwell 1982 520****. Still remembered tot his day, in fact went to the International Bomber Command Memorial in Lincoln the other day and the tour guide an ex-nav asked had anybody served and what wa their number, came straight out without a thought.

As an aside the memorial may close after Christmas due to Covid a=which has depleted their reserves.

[Union Jack]

I remember sitting in the KG5 night club in Berlin circa 1980, watching the floor show with my crew, when a group of 'elderly gentlemen' entered.

One asked me if i was in the services, and I told him to mind his own business - it was Berlin during the cold war after all.

He then asked me if i was ashamed to admit it, and I said no, but it may pay to be discreet given where we were.

He then said that he was military, as were all his companions and showed me his ID. I said that it had no service number on it.

He then said that 'my dear boy, when one hits 2 stars and above, they don't bother with the number!'

I made my excuses and left.

Using the simple example indicated at https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/62321/supplement/10419 announcing the appointment of General Nick Carter 505216 as CDS suggests that the elderly gentleman concerned was pulling your plonker - quite hard !:eek:


Royal Navy officers in the 60s and 70s (& probably earlier) didn’t have ‘service numbers’. We were advised they would only be issued in times of war.

Absolutely correct, since Service Numbers were only considered necessary for Royal Navy and Royal Marine officers following the introduction of computerised pay accounts.

Jack

[SLXOwft]

Jack, glad to know it wasn't because in the 80's we were all oiks lacking Mog's and JE's social connections.:)
For what little it's worth mine was C0 or CO (never been quite sure) followed by five numbers and a letter.

Computerised pay accounts reminds me of bring told by the relevant pusser shortly after arrival at BRNC, that if I moved my account to N?????t's Dartmouth branch I would be paid a day earlier.

[ExSp33db1rd]

277**** issued Sept. 1955. Not forgotten, despite just celebrating my 86th ( deferred Nat. Svc. )

[DeanoP]

No 5200xxx
I was recruited in Salisbury Rhodesia in 1960. Enjoyed a 3000mile steam train ride over 2 or 3 days covered in soot from the steam engine, no air con in those days from Salisbury to Cape Town. Then a lovely cruise over 2 weeks with Pretoria Castle (Union Castle line) to Southampton. Very depressing arrival in Feb 60 to mist, smell of coal smoke, dirty train and bloody cold weather. Very hard for a colonial boy. Joined 147 course at South Cerney and then 35 years of thorough enjoyment in the truckie fleet.
Not many around, I am sure, with the 5 million sequence.

[kiwi grey]

Royal Navy officers in the 60s and 70s (& probably earlier) didn’t have ‘service numbers’. We were advised they would only be issued in times of war.

This was indeed true from at least the 1930s until 1966.
My father was commissioned in 1938, having joined BRNC Dartmouth in 1934 (age 14), and retired from the RN in 1966. His records have his name, no number. When he applied for an Australian War Veteran's Pension - it has some additional benefits to the Age Pension - the folks at Veterans' Affairs in Canberra were quite discombobulated by an ex-serviceman with no Service Number (:eek:). This was last year, so I guess it may be that nobody in the office had dealt with an application from a WW2 veteran before!

[Pom Pax]

My late Father was 568XXX

My late Father a founder member was 178XXX.
Fast forward forty years and I was 519XXXXX, two extra XXs.

[JW411]

4230*** South Cerney 1960.

[MPN11]

My brief time in the RN, Dartmouth 63-64, I had no number ... but I still have the payslips (£0/15/0 per day) and Tax/NI paperwork.

[50+Ray]

5200xxx was the number given to this old codger when starting a University Cadetship in 1968. Long afterwards a letter was added at the end. Jumped ship on 38th birthday to go to Saudi.

[MPN11]

As an aside, there was (is?) the unusual 9xxx numbering for WRAF Graduate Entrants. Obviously not a lot of them!

[Bill Macgillivray]

352**** in 1956 but I believe that this was reserved for ex-ATC cadets joining the Service. (as was a 4** number for ex-CCF cadets.). Never forgotten, even now !!

Bill

[papajuliet]

ExSp33db1bd
The book "Stand by your beds" by John Hamlin lists National Service numbers.
Yours falls into the batch 2700000-2787999 allocated July 1953 to Feb. 1956. 88,000 in all and all non ATC.
I was 5011609 in the batch May 1956 to an unknown date. ( I went in 1 May 1957 ). A total of 1334 in that batch and all ex-CCF(RAF). Not until I read that book did I have it confirmed that there had been separate numbers for ex cadets - although it had been rumoured.

[2Planks]

I had 2, as a VR Cadet on the UAS I was 26xxxxx, then when I was awarded a cadetship I was changed to a 520xxxx.
IIRC there was the non PC joke about the similarity between RAF Police Dogs and Members of the WRAF, answer 6 digit service numbers!
Takes cover!

[Arfur Dent]

That looks South Cerney(ish)
I actually helped with the move from South Cerney to Church Fenton.

[MPN11]

Due to posting, I sadly had to give up my dog for adoption ... so he became 8988 Air Dog "Defa".

He then failed the course due to 'lack of determination' and was re-homed to a family.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1940x2000/defa_1977_1065752934a42e387a63948355970d747bdb6610.jpeg

[76fan]

My brief time in the RN, Dartmouth 63-64, I had no number ... but I still have the payslips (£0/15/0 per day) and Tax/NI paperwork.
Historic paperwork! I still have all/most of my P60's and the first of those from my RN days which showed a service number was for the tax year 1972/73. Never had a reason to remember the number though.

[zetec2]

Thanks for all the amusing posts sadly doesn't get me any closer to who the button stick was originally issued to, never mind onwards & upwards, rgds PH.i

[John Eacott]

Historic paperwork! I still have all/most of my P60's and the first of those from my RN days which showed a service number was for the tax year 1972/73. Never had a reason to remember the number though.

I, too, have all my payslips from 1967 to 1975 but no service number on any of them. Even my final ID Card has only a card number, nothing to do with a Service Number. There was much conjecture that the payslip number would become a Service Number (usually in the bar over a 4p HN or three) but nothing official prior to my leaving late 1975.

When applying for a Veteran's badge when they were first announced there was instant agreement that I had no Service Number, and all boxes were ticked without such an abomination.

This all reminds me of a PO Prune cartoon from the wartime TeeEm which had Prune looking over the shoulder of an old and bold pilot with a caption along the lines of "He never had a Service Number, when he joined everyone knew each other by first name' :p

[SLXOwft]

zetec2, on the off chance I did a search of the Gazette. I thought I had found her but I had typed 895351 which brought up a list of newly appointed Assistant Section Officers from 1941. Unfortunately I got no results for 893351 however the number would appear to be part of a range allocated to Aircraftwomen as it is slap bang in the middle of those of the new WAAF officers listed.

[SLXOwft]

JE, undoubtedly one of those of whom PO Prune would have said "He has been in since Pontius was a pilot."

Sorry all but I couldn't resist the temptation.

[MPN11]

zetec2, on the off chance I did a search of the Gazette. I thought I had found her but I had typed 895351 which brought up a list of newly appointed Assistant Section Officers from 1941. Unfortunately I got no results for 893351 however the number would appear to be part of a range allocated to Aircraftwomen as it is slap bang in the middle of those of the new WAAF officers listed.
Surname Harvey, perchance? 😃

BTW, 76fan, in that ancient box file I also unearthed my Nov ‘66 Mess Bill from Shawbury ... £54/12/6. I used to have the corresponding Pay Slip, which was £52/10/0 ... 😱

[zetec2]

SLXOwft thanks for the comments, appreciated, guess an in depth search at Kew or Hendon is calling, will post back if I ever find the info,rgds, PH.

[SLXOwft]

zetec2, my pleasure.

MPN, I'm sure she would have made Flight Officer by then.:) Given the list was of over sixty newly promoted ASOs I did a risk assessment prior to posting and decided, in the absence of images, it was ALARP even given the likely effect on the imaginations of certain well known PPRuNers.:ok:

[olddog]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1418/227_cse_aots_1967_d2cbd87ec878ee284a235be1d20a5b3a1f8c371b.j pg
Shackman, youll be on here then! 4233***

[Warmtoast]

When I joined in 1951 my number was 406xxxx

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/450x278/rafbridgenorth_endofcoursephoto_10thmay1951_09731012ef62f0df 573c4de1d446ce333f38e9c8.jpg
Photo taken at RAF Bridgnorth in May 1951.

[ericferret]

423 should be a South Cerney number. 423xxxx Dec '64.

A few months ago I went in for surgery. The anaesthetist knew I was ex-service, and as I was going asked "last three". A bit of a surprise, but I told him, just before I went out. Not been asked that for well over thirty years.

I was always slightly jealous of my mates last three, 007

[Cornish Jack]

Oddly perhaps, I remember my late brother's number as well as mine. He was ex-Air Training Corps so started 351 xxxx. The numbering system was somewhat odd but as DE aircrew I started with 414xxxx in December1951.

[Tankertrashnav]

In 1980, while languishing in DKMH Catterick, an old gentleman in the ward told me his number only had three digits. From memory he served at Catterick as part of the RFC/RAF during WW1

In WW1 the army did not have a system of unique service numbers until some time in 1916. Prior to that they had regimental numbers which in fact started at 1 and were duplicated across the regimental system. Thus there could be a number 456 in the Suffolk Regiment and another in the Norfolk Regiment, and so on. The same applied to corps, although as these tended to be larger than line regiments their numbers often contained up to five digits. The unique service number came in to assist in admin when the army grew in size to several millions. The old gentleman at Catterick would have lost his original three digit number when the new system came in.

In the medal collecting world medals to individuals with low numbers are highly prized. I once had 1914-15 Star named to a number 10, an NCO in the Royal Warwicks, and a chum who specialises in this field has several "number 1s" in his collection. Although army and RAF officers have always had service numbers, these never appear on medals named to officers (check your own!)

[Herod]

undoubtedly one of those of whom PO Prune would have said "He has been in since Pontius was a pilot."

You'll see from my user name that I was young Pilate's C.O. :)

[John Eacott]

JE, undoubtedly one of those of whom PO Prune would have said "He has been in since Pontius was a pilot."

Sorry all but I couldn't resist the temptation.

Those familiar with TeeEm and P/O Prune may recall a series of cartoons, these may whet your appetite :cool:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1300x2000/po_prune_1_83a2a7702f151458f7eda0f272227b8ea8a05bb3.jpeg


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1300x2000/po_prune_2_7a3881ea8f131faffcb8fa807306797a87451d3d.jpeg

[cliver029]

Zetec2

Recapping, the number in question was in a block "880000 to 897999 " for WAAF personnel inducted as of March 1939, If she had been commissioned she would have had her service in the ranks terminated and re-enlisted with a new (officer ) number? that's what happened with my father when he was commissioned, the London Gazette showed his new number 17xxxx not his airman's no 75xxxx issued on joining.

[BEagle]

My mother was a WAAF and joined shortly after March 1939 as 'Class F reservist' with the 22nd North Riding Company - Service No. 884731.

Hopefully her full service record will be on its way to me soon. I understand that she was 'in radar', probably working in a filter room...

[Fortissimo]

[QUOTE]He then said that he was military, as were all his companions and showed me his ID. I said that it had no service number on it.

He then said that 'my dear boy, when one hits 2 stars and above, they don't bother with the number!'
[QUOTE]

That was indeed the position in the 80s and earlier, although I believe it was officers of gp capt rank and above who were not required to use their service number, and it was not shown on ID cards. I think it all changed with the introduction of the check digit (letter!), the stripping out of admin support in the early 90s and the move towards having all the personnel records on the new admin computer.

The London Gazette was not showing service numbers for gp capts and above as recently as 2015 (I haven't needed to look since then...).

[Top West 50]

I was issued with 4232xxx in 1963. A few years later they added a "J" at the end. Anyone know why?

[Haraka]

I was issued with 4232xxx in 1963. A few years later they added a "J" at the end. Anyone know why?
As I understood it it was the so called "check digit device" . Basically , again as I recall, an algorithm was passed over the numbers which generated a letter. This was then matched against the one provided to check that the service number had been entered correctly. I had one on entry in 1968. Allegedly the first three digits of your number indicated your Service entry status. I believe the suffix was later discontinued.

[MPN11]

IIRC the 'check digit' was introduced for Accounts purposes, as the Innsoworth abacus was replaced by a computer.

[Barksdale Boy]

I was given a letter after my service number on entry as an officer cadet in Sep 65. The moment I was commissioned in Dec 65 it disappeared, never to be seen again.

[DODGYOLDFART]

In summer 1956 the basic number ranges were for regulars 418xxxx and national service 503xxxx. These were applied to all trades air and ground. Exceptions were Boy Entrants, Apprentices and Cranwell entrants having separate number ranges.
Hope this helps.

[langleybaston]

In WW1 the army did not have a system of unique service numbers until some time in 1916. Prior to that they had regimental numbers which in fact started at 1 and were duplicated across the regimental system. Thus there could be a number 456 in the Suffolk Regiment and another in the Norfolk Regiment, and so on. The same applied to corps, although as these tended to be larger than line regiments their numbers often contained up to five digits. The unique service number came in to assist in admin when the army grew in size to several millions. The old gentleman at Catterick would have lost his original three digit number when the new system came in.

In the medal collecting world medals to individuals with low numbers are highly prized. I once had 1914-15 Star named to a number 10, an NCO in the Royal Warwicks, and a chum who specialises in this field has several "number 1s" in his collection. Although army and RAF officers have always had service numbers, these never appear on medals named to officers (check your own!)

Sorry to demur but:
Unique army service numbers were not issued until 1920 +/- a year. Regimental number series had [from memory] seven iterations, the first c. 1836. The Great War Series began in 1881 for all regiments and corps but was generally subject to upper limits 9999 after which a new series should have begun. Many regiments were allowed past 10,000 by 1914, and there was not a new topping after that. Again, many regiments had:
a single series shared by both regular battalions,[or all four, in a few cases]
a separate series for each of their SR/Extra SR battalions
a separate series for each of their TF battalions.
Wartime Kitchener men were deemed to be regulars and used that series. It was quite possible for a slack handful of soldiers, wearing the same cap badge, to have the same number.

I co-wrote the definitive article [so far] on numbering, and the above is from memory. I can, if asked nicely, email copies to interested parties. There is also an internet site which benefits fully from modern connectivities and I can dig that out also.

[Tankertrashnav]

Very interesting, L-B, I had always thought the unique service number came in during the war, but happy to be corrected. I am sending you a PM with my email address as I would appreciate a copy of the article you refer to. I have been in touch with my medal collecting chum and he tells me he has a fair sized collection of WW1 medals to recipients with 3 digit numbers, including Z-204 to the RFC and 800 to the RAF. He also has quite a few "number ones" including to the RA, RAMC, Rifle Brigade and The Queens,as well as several Indian Army units.

[HAS59]

RAF Service numbers are fascinating, as Haraka pointed out there was an algorithm for deducing which letter was allocated as a prefix to the seven numbers.

Step one

Multiply the first number by 8
“ the second by 17
“ the third by 4
“ the fourth by 16
“ the fifth by 2
“ the sixth by 13
“ the seventh by 1

Add them to get ‘Answer A’.

Step two

Divide Answer A by 23 and reduce the number to the nearest integer to ger Answer B.

Step three

Take away Answer B from Answer A,
the result is then applied to the alphabet.

0 = A, 1 = B, 2 = C, 3 = D, etc until 23 = X.

There was a code in the first two digits which defined, Airman (Ground), Airman (Aircrew), Officer (Direct) and Officer (from the ranks). There may have been other codes, but if so, I’ve forgotten them.

My dad was a National Serviceman on entry 109 his number was 2349032 (1947 – 1949)

Mine was in the 8102*** group September 1972.

[wub]

My service number, issued in March 1971 was A8093***. When I was commissioned as a VR(T) officer in 1988 I was given the same number but the 'A' was moved from the front to the back.

[Avionker]

RAF Service numbers are fascinating, as Haraka pointed out there was an algorithm for deducing which letter was allocated as a prefix to the seven numbers.

Step one

Multiply the first number by 8
“ the second by 17
“ the third by 4
“ the fourth by 16
“ the fifth by 2
“ the sixth by 13
“ the seventh by 1

Add them to get ‘Answer A’.

Step two

Divide Answer A by 23 and reduce the number to the nearest integer to ger Answer B.

Step three

Take away Answer B from Answer A,
the result is then applied to the alphabet.

0 = A, 1 = B, 2 = C, 3 = D, etc until 23 = X.

There was a code in the first two digits which defined, Airman (Ground), Airman (Aircrew), Officer (Direct) and Officer (from the ranks). There may have been other codes, but if so, I’ve forgotten them.

My dad was a National Serviceman on entry 109 his number was 2349032 (1947 – 1949)

Mine was in the 8102*** group September 1972.

Are you sure that the algorithim is correct?

Applying it to my service number answer A is 190, Answer B is then 8. How do you get 6 (check character G) from that?

One other service number I know, my best mate in training, gives Answer A to be 261, Answer B as 11. We need a 5 for him as his number had F as a check character.

Or are my arithmetic skills letting me down?

[Fortissimo]

When the check digit (letter) for officers was introduced, I was told it was all to do with computing time - the search starts with the letter, which means you are only looking at 1/26 of the records. If you then work backwards through the number, it then apparently only takes 3 or 4 turns of the handle to produce a result. At that point I lost interest!

[SLXOwft]

L-B, I have sent you a PM requesting your article. One of my grandfathers and his brother both had four digit numbers beginning with 2 having joined up on the declaration of war in 1914.

TTN, My grandfather left me his brother's medal set Pip, Sqeak and Wilfred plus the DCM - unfortunately they went missing while on loan to familly member who died suddenly. I regularly visit my great uncle's grave in France, I greatly regretted not having the medals with me when I did so on the 100th anniversary of his death in action.

[huge72]

When I joined in 1972 as an airman my Number like all others at the time started H8100, then when I was commissioned in 2002 the prefix letter moved to the end of the number. Before I retired in 2010 however the dreaded JPA had arrived and my number disappeared from the computer system. So when I joined the ATC as VR(T) in 2011 I was issued a completely different number with no letter, the strange thing was that if I substitute the 4 with the letter H and rearrange the other numbers I still have the same number.

[Lancelot37]

[QUOTE=Cornish Jack;10885391]Oddly perhaps, I remember my late brother's number as well as mine. He was ex-Air Training Corps so started 351 xxxx.

Are you sure it started 351? I was ex A.T.C and my R.A.F number started 315---- I was told this was for all ex A.T.C.

[DON T]

My service number was preceded by a D and ended in 6. The lad before me had letter C and ended in 5 and the lad after me was E ending in 7. I can remember discussing it at Swinderby.

[gzornenplatz]

My late father was in the RAF from 1921 to 1927 in Egypt and Iraq (Mespot, as it was known), as an aircraft fitter on DH9As and Vickers Victorias. His number was 353xxx. I joined in 1956. Mine was 681xxx. That's progress for you.

[HAS59]

Are you sure that the algorithm is correct?

Applying it to my service number answer A is 190, Answer B is then 8. How do you get 6 (check character G) from that?
One other service number I know, my best mate in training, gives Answer A to be 261, Answer B as 11. We need a 5 for him as his number had F as a check character.
Or are my arithmetic skills letting me down?

Here's mine:
Answer A was 144, then divide it by 23 = 6.26. Then multiply that integer (6) by 23 to get 138. Take that away from 'Answer A' to get 6 which = G.

[Herod]

The joys of an earlier, simpler system. I joined in '64, starting at South Cerney. 423****. Left in '76, and re-enlisted in the VR(T) to fly AEF Chippies, in '84, retiring in '90. Retained the same number; none of this modern "check-letter" nonsense.

[Tankertrashnav]

TTN, My grandfather left me his brother's medal set Pip, Sqeak and Wilfred plus the DCM - unfortunately they went missing while on loan to family member who died suddenly.

SLXOwft sorry to hear that but unfortunately it is a common tale. You might try contacting Medal News, which is produced by Token Publishing (Google them for contact details). I understand that they have a section where you can post details of lost or stolen medals. You will need as much information as possible as regards the naming on the medals (number, rank name and unit). Also if you want to let me know this info by private message I can post it on a couple of Facebook groups connected with medal collecting I am a member of. These may be long shots, but worth a try.

A few months ago I went in for surgery. The anaesthetist knew I was ex-service, and as I was going asked "last three". A bit of a surprise, but I told him, just before I went out. Not been asked that for well over thirty years

As regards everyone remembering their own number till they shuffle off, I once had medals and a lot of paperwork which had belonged to a Grenadier Guards officer back in the 1930s/40s. Among the papers was a letter he had written, post retirement, to his regimental HQ asking them if he could be reminded of his service number. Obviously guards officers rarely had to quote their "last three"!

[Avionker]

Here's mine:
Answer A was 144, then divide it by 23 = 6.26. Then multiply that integer (6) by 23 to get 138. Take that away from 'Answer A' to get 6 which = G.

Ahh, that explains it. It appears that the multiplication step is missing in your original post.

With that step the algorithm does indeed return the expected results.

[langleybaston]

Just back online. Don't ask.
Will send the promised article to supplicants in the next few days.

[mabmac]

One more wrinkle to take into account. Previous postings stated "the result is then applied to the alphabet. 0 = A, 1 = B, 2 = C, 3 = D, etc until 23 = X." This is not quite true. I and O (India and Oscar) are omitted from the sequence to avoid confusion so H=7 and J = 8, then N=12 and P = 13, ending up with Z=23 (which is, of course, why 23 is the divisor).

[simmy]

Thanks olddog. I wonder if shackman is Ray C...? Excellent student and it seems Cathay management thought he was excellent as well!

Quite a few of these names I remember with some pleasure as they came to Leeming where I was a QFI.

[langleybaston]

Numbering article sent by email to those who requested and gave an email address!

[Brian 48nav]

Herod

I was going to say when I joined at South Cerney in Dec' 65 IIRC I was given a 4232*** number followed by a suffix letter which disappeared on commissioning, but Barksdale Boy beat me to it in post No. 60.

[Herod]

Hi Brian, and Barksdale Boy. That gives us a rough date as to when it all started. I joined Dec '64, and there was never a letter.

[ROC man]

Great grandfather who served in RFC was issued with 13*** in November 1915 which was carried forward into RAF service in April 1918.

[MPN11]

Great grandfather who served in RFC was issued with 13*** in November 1915 which was carried forward into RAF service in April 1918.
Likewise for my Grandfather, RNAS Air Mechanic (F 22***) who appears to have retained that number on 1 Apr 18 on transfer to the RAF.

Slightly surprised by his uniform with peaked cap, as a basic Naval Rating ... he was only a newly-joined Air Mechanic 2nd Class when that photo was taken. But Google has helped explain that ... Class III was worn by RNAS ratings! https://www.uniform-reference.net/insignia/rn/rn_ww1_ranks_enlisted_1.html#class1

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/554x800/wpg_rnas_673e393c645a0d95fd870c681c7d66b84ddbc3be.jpeg
Called the "fore-and-aft rig" in contrast to the "square rig (https://www.uniform-reference.net/insignia/rn/rn_ww1_ranks_enlisted_1.html#class2)," Class III uniform was similar to Class I (https://www.uniform-reference.net/insignia/rn/rn_ww1_ranks_enlisted_1.html#class1), but without gilt buttons and with badges worn on the sleeves. Black buttons were worn on blue uniforms and white on white uniforms. The cap badge was embroidered in red thread. The personnel distinction reflected in Class III dress originated with those known as "idlers" in the sailing navy, who did most of their work during daytime hours and did not keep watch around the clock. Class III was worn by petty officers and lower ranks of the Shipwright (https://www.uniform-reference.net/insignia/rn/rn_ww1_ranks_enlisted_1.html#artisan), Accountant (https://www.uniform-reference.net/insignia/rn/rn_ww1_ranks_enlisted_1.html#acct), Medical (https://www.uniform-reference.net/insignia/rn/rn_ww1_ranks_enlisted_1.html#sberth) and Naval Police (https://www.uniform-reference.net/insignia/rn/rn_ww1_ranks_enlisted_1.html#npolice) ratings, as well as those of the Royal Naval Air Service (https://www.uniform-reference.net/insignia/rn/rnas_ww1_ranks_officer_1.html).

[Geriaviator]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/472x386/halton36_6b27308931fd76711a5a0896acc15bfb634dc34c.jpg

[Pontius Navigator]

Thanks for all the amusing posts sadly doesn't get me any closer to who the button stick was originally issued to, never mind onwards & upwards, rgds PH.i
search the London Gazette for that number. You might get a match. In a different question I found some NCO aircrew who changed numbers on commissioning. The number might pop up.

[Pontius Navigator]

Herod

I was going to say when I joined at South Cerney in Dec' 65 IIRC I was given a 4232*** number followed by a suffix letter which disappeared on commissioning, but Barksdale Boy beat me to it in post No. 60.
Brian the letter didnt disappear, it appeared at a guess around 65-66 with airmen having a prefix and officers a suffix. It was a checksum letter with computerisation. There is a detailed explanation and decode on Pprune some years back.

I remember some resistance to using the letter. When that crumbled we delighted in answering 'last three ' with '34a' 'no I mean last 3 numbers '

[EngAl]

It was definitely 65 or 66. I was at Gaydon from Jan 65 to Mar 66 and acquired my prefix while I was there, probably around mid 65. I was summoned to General Office and given a slip of paper with my new prefix on it. My apprentice number of 6 digits (688xxx) was prefixed with R0 (zero) so all numbers were padded out to 8 digits. Later after commissioning the letter migrated to the end, but not the zero.

[kenparry]

Somehow I seem to have been late to the game of the suffix letter. I was a regular from 61 to 78, then joined the VR(T) to fly with an AEF. It must have been sometime in the 90s when HQ AC started adding a D to my 7-digit number.

[Bill Macgillivray]

Joined in late '55 with a 352**** (ex - ATC) number which stayed with me until I left Jan. '80. This was some airman service and a lot of commissioned service. I never had a letter at any time, to my knowledge. (Must have missed out or been forgotten!!).

Bill

[kenparry]

Bill - me too, ref the letter.

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

I was in Boy Entrants when we received our Prefix Letter. That would have covered Jan '64 to Jul '65. I think it was mid '64. I think it took a couple of years for everyone to receive their Letter.

Aaron.

[Prangster]

Pardon my ignorance in these matters. My stepfather joined the VR pre war based at Scampton. Trained as a WOP/AG. eventually becoming a squadron signals leader before converting to pilot. I recall a PFF certificate on the wall so would this have resulted in renumber? He became a VRT (T) officer and I'm think he gained another No. My own VR(T) No began 208XXX issued in 1970. I'd like to trace his path, particularly time spent on 7 and 156

[bspatz]

I can endorse Geriaviator's comment re knowing your fathers service number, growing up on numerous stations during the 50's and 60's I knew my fathers off by heart 9246xx and still do. It was particularly useful when caught wandering around somewhere you were not strictly allowed to go but could lead to trouble once you got home!

[cynicalint]

As far as I am aware, once issued with a service number, that stays with you for life. Ex ground airmen re-mustering to aircrew or officer or NCO aircrew to officer, took their numbers with them. The letter given before the number, on commissioning, moved to the back. It was mid 80's that I remember the letter being attached to the commissioned branches, even though it had existed but not used previously. Much to the consternation of at least one direct entry Ex V-force AEO sent to maritime, who insisted that that he never had a letter in his service number, and felt degraded by being referred to as an ex- NCO AEOp.

[lsh]

I am S812**** Joined 11 May 76 Swinderby.

My Grandfather was "Pte No 3197 Royal Fusiliers 23.2.15."
Promoted "Temp 2nd Lt" on 25.9.15.
He became a "Temp Lieut" on 13.11.16 with the RFC.
His RFC / RAF number was 03128.

lsh
:E

[ICM]

I suspect things may have changed in later years but, during WW2, men commissioned from the ranks were allocated a new personal number. I have found this to be so when investigating several individuals for members of the 10 Squadron Association.