Seeing Hitler in real life

[Hokulea]

My mother is 87 and was born in Austria, somewhere near Vienna. She spent most of her life in the Austrian Alps during WWII as a refugee escaping the Nazis with her mother and sisters. Her brother was forced to join the German Army and lost his life on the Russian front, but she survived. Later on, she emigrated to the UK and married my father who was in the RAF and fought during WWII. My father passed away a long time ago but told me all sorts of stories about his service during the war and afterward. My mother has been reluctant to tell me stories but did learn about how her family continually moved to escape the Nazis.

Just yesterday, I learned from a family friend that she actually saw Hitler in real life. She didn't meet him she just saw him in an open-top vehicle, I assume visiting Vienna. My mother never told me about this and am reluctant to ask her about this, but at some point, I think I should. I live half a planet away and due to COVID I can't visit but do call often just to see how she is. Of course, I will go back to the UK if she becomes ill, but right now she's doing fine.

For some reason, however, I just can't get it out of my head that she actually saw Hitler. I'm having a tough time processing this and wondered if anyone else here is in the same position or knows someone who is. I suspect some might see this as some weird liberal "look at me" post but that couldn't be further from the truth. For those who might understand what I'm getting at, do you have any advice? My mother lived with this for so long without telling me and I'm sure she has a good reason for doing so, but she is also a part of history and is in a group of people that is growing smaller every day.

Sorry for the somewhat discordant post, but hope one or two of you will understand how I feel.

Thank you.

[AnglianAV8R]

There are huge numbers of people who got on with life after the terrible days of war and chose to let sleeping dogs lie. Perhaps this is one of those cases. Obviously, many thousands (or more) saw Hitler as he went about his role.
My mother has vivid memories of seeing the aftermath of an air raid shelter taking a direct hit in the war. She has had a morbid fear of fire ever since.
Why not simply say to her... "I hear from (insert name here) that you actually saw Hitler yourself... What was happening then?" or something like that. She will either share her memory or dismiss the subject. I doubt that the actual occasion would form a traumatic memory for her.

[Asturias56]

Hitler visited Vienna several times immediately after the German take-over in '38 and there were some vast processions along the Ring I believe.

I understand your mother's reluctance to talk - as the unofficial family historian I've hit the same wall a few times - one of my family fought at Casino and he only talked about it once, another spent the whole of WWI in the front line and NEVER talked about it.

Sometimes the best thing is to get someone a lot younger - a grandchild, a great grandchild or a neighbours kid she knows to ask the question - somehow it seems less threatening to people who are old and they can open up.......

[chevvron]

Take a look at 'Hunting Hitler' on Freeview Ch 38 fridays at 9pm BST (may be repeated other times) .
Not sure if it's a hoax or if it's true but the claim is they've traced his escape route intitlally to Argentina then Brazil and Paraguay.

[Not Long Here]

Hokulea,
I think this has impacted you far more than it would have impacted your mother. Asturias and Anglian raise points about other peoples experiences but these are where there has been a traumatic event or experiences.

I wouldn't rate just seeing Hitler in an open topped vehicle as a traumatic event. What we know about him now makes it seem so. Just talk to her about it.

[Flugplatz]

At the risk of getting all Monty Python about seeing Hitler, my father who passed away a couple of years ago, told us that he had been taken by my grandfather to a Nazi rally when they were touring Vienna and Germany in the 30's! To say I was surprised is an understatement and I said that "you might want to keep quiet about that one Dad..!!!" apparently my grandfather had gone to 'see what all the fuss was about' and my father was too young to remember anything much. One just hopes they didn't pay an entrance fee/carry any torches etc. In these days when you can get in trouble for spelling LGBTQ the wrong way, letting on that you have attended a Nazi rally with real Nazi's and with you-know-who as the keynote speaker, is probably something you don't want to advertise .
Flug

[Saintsman]

I think that the secret to asking her, is telling her that there are not many of her kind left and that the youngsters need to know the story so that we can try and make sure it doesn’t happen again. Hearing the story from a real witness Is much better than reading a book about it. She might be more amenable to opening up if she is telling her story.

[Imagegear]

I often thought of asking my father why he studied the German language in the "20's" to the point of becoming completely fluent and literate in all aspects and a noted scholar at the time.

During the 30's, when Germany was rising from the ashes of WW1, a new populism and confidence had started to develop. This then led to more students seeking to improve their ability to communicate and trade with what was being seen as an emerging power. So I put it down to a simple desire to improve his job prospects.

It made sense to me, but oddly, even before the start of WW2, he no longer pursued any interest in the language and would only bring it out of the closet as a party trick much later to surprise people. Was he involved in something which he never spoke of? Unfortunately I did not have the opportunity to have a conversation about it which I now much regret.

It will be worthwhile not to let this small piece of history in your family slip by.

IG

[Quemerford]

My wife's grandfather was "in the war" but according to his wife, he didn't want to talk about it, so no-one asked and he didn't tell. However when his wife died, given a few respectful years I took the plunge and asked him. And what followed were several long conversations that he'd been dying to have since 1945, and which his wife had told him no-one wanted to know. He was overjoyed that someone was interested in what he had to say.

Turned out he was first into France in 1939, missed Dunkirk, was made PoW and spent the war in a number of locations, all of which were fresh in his mind. He was repatriated in a Lancaster in May 1945 and the whole thing was an amazing story.

I doubt I'd have regretted not asking him, because I'd never have known what I'd lost. But instead we have a far richer picture of him now that he's gone.

[Ascend Charlie]

In 50 years time, when the Delete Culture has wiped Donald Trump and his excesses from the history books, will anybody actually stand up and say "I voted for that goose."

[DownWest]

Father of a girl I knew once showed me an invite to a pre war embassy function he attended. It was signed by one A Hitler.... Also, a close friend from Sweden told me over lunch one day that his great aunt was Herman Göering's mistress. I said that I doubted that he mentioned that very often.. No, I don't,he replied. Neither of them was very concerned about the events.
The girl's father was also one of a very large familly, spread over several countries, and as a military govenor in occupied Germany, he found it slightly awkward that the mayor of the main city in his area was a cousin.
My father flew Hurricanes in France and the BoB, then Spitfires and commanded a Squ in Torch. He had a few unpleasant memories, it was only later that I realised that he had only talked to me on the odd occasions that he did, not my other siblings.

Edit: Just looked, and it seems that the great aunt of my Swedish friend was HG's first wife, Carin.

[certifs]

... wondered if anyone else here is in the same position or knows someone who is. I suspect some might see this as some weird liberal "look at me" post but that couldn't be further from the truth. For those who might understand what I'm getting at, do you have any advice? My mother lived with this for so long without telling me and I'm sure she has a good reason for doing so, but she is also a part of history and is in a group of people that is growing smaller every day.

Thank you.
Hokulea, I can share an almost exact parallel story.
My partners mother would have been a little older than your mother. She was born and lived the first part of her life in the Austrian Alps (though she had worked as a maid in Graz). She had two brothers in the German armed services, the older of whom also disappeared in Russia (his picture, in uniform, still hangs on her bedroom wall, we haven't had the heart to change her room since she died). Neither her nor my partners father (who died several decades ago) spoke about their wartime experiences other than they knew each other from both working in a steel factory during that time. My partners father came to Australia after the war as he was a stateless person and when looking to settle down wrote to my partners mother, to see if she was interested in marriage. She came to Australia and married him here.
One night a couple of years before she died while we were sitting in the lounge and a documentary on WW2 was playing on the television (though none of us were really paying it much attention) she looked up and saw some old newsreel of Hitler in an open topped car in a parade and simply said, "I saw him, you know". We pressed a little bit and she said that every one (from the factory we assume) was given a day off if they would go and watch him go by. So she did. It wasn't anything more sinister than that.

In fact, we went back to her home town after she died and talked to the few of her friends who were then still alive (they are all gone now) and we got clues of some things but either they didn't know everything or wouldn't tell us either. We also found a lot of records regarding my partners father in Australian refugee records. We think he wouldn't speak of his experiences due to his fear of retribution by post war Jugoslavian communist forces (even 40 years later in Australia). When they met in Austria, he was almost certainly some form of "forced worker" (Zwangsarbeiter) though not a slave worker. There seems be a story about her being threatened with punishment and being told not to give bread to a group of forced workers (including him?) but we cant confirm the details.

From what little bits we have been able to piece together I think she was just a fairly normal, kind hearted person, very parochial* in a lot of ways. The partners father _may_ have deserted from one (or more!) Slovak conscript armies before being a forced worker (because of it?) and may have done some shady things (black market?) directly post war but probably due to circumstances of the time and was a perfectly fine law abiding naturalised citizen for the remainder of his life in Australia. Both of them just normal folks born into a bad place and time, dealt with it as they could.
* If you know of the writings of Peter Rossegger you'll understand exactly what I mean.

I would advise you ask you mother her stories though. Some of the things we found out, I don't think either of my partners parents would have freely talked about, one for maybe embarrassment and one from fear, but that will vary from person to person.

Certifs

[certifs]

I often thought of asking my father why he studied the German language in the "20's" to the point of becoming completely fluent and literate in all aspects and a noted scholar at the time.


IG

Imagegear, was he a physicist?

I believe that a great deal of scientific literature of the early 20th century was from Germany (world leaders in maths, synthetic chemistry and atomic physics as well as other science disciplines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_in_Germany)). I had heard it was common for English speaking scientists in those fields to learn German to keep abreast of developments in Germany from German published papers. Of course Mr H. pretty much stuffed up that whole unbiased sharing of science concept even before the war.

Certifs

[George Glass]

Many , many people met Hitler. He was far less paranoid about meeting the general public or military than you might think. He did however change plans and randomise his movements to minimise known threats. Really not that uncommon at all.

[Hokulea]

Thank you very much, everyone, your replies have been very helpful. I think I was surprised to find out that my mother told someone else, albeit a close friend, but had never told me. I can think of a few reasons for this, all of them quite reasonable, but will redouble my efforts to get her to talk about this period of her life. I think it's important I explain this is very important to me to know and understand my family's history before the opportunity is lost. What she has told me in the past was fascinating and has made me realise that no matter how bad things are right now, it doesn't compare in any way to what she and millions of others experienced during the war.

[DH106]

Erm.... isn't this an aviation forum?

[SpringHeeledJack]

Aloha!

It is possible that your mother might have seen AH in the border region of Germany and Austria, as he had his favourite residence just outside Berchtesgaden ? I'm sure he might have made trips locally both privately and for functions. Maybe it was before WW2 really got going and AH was more relaxed in his movements before becoming paranoid after the attempt on his life.

It was a moment in modern history for your mother to have seen AH, but as in all these sightings (including the present) it probably wasn't more than a passing excitement (either positive or negative), much like I see the Queen close up at the Epsom Derby each year. Time seems to give these encounters a magical sheen, perhaps because they cannot be repeated.

The participants of the turmoil of WW2, and other conflicts are often reticent to discuss their experiences, putting it behind them as the best course of action to get on with their lives. I would definitely ask a parent/uncle/auntie about different aspects of their experience, they can choose to say no and that also should be respected.

[Hokulea]

Erm.... isn't this an aviation forum?
Yes, it is, which is the reason I brought this up here. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but was hoping some people here would understand why I brought this up. My mother escaped the Nazis while my father did his best to help RAF pilots shoot down Luftwaffe pilots, which included him flying as the radar/RDF operator on mosquito night fighters. I'm simply trying to get a little more perspective on my family's history in a forum I know, feel comfortable posting on and within which I've made a few friends who share a common history whether it WWII or later conflicts. I apologize if you don't approve of it. And again, thank you everyone else for your responses, they have been very helpful.

[ATNotts]

My wife's grandfather was "in the war" but according to his wife, he didn't want to talk about it, so no-one asked and he didn't tell. However when his wife died, given a few respectful years I took the plunge and asked him. And what followed were several long conversations that he'd been dying to have since 1945, and which his wife had told him no-one wanted to know. He was overjoyed that someone was interested in what he had to say.

Turned out he was first into France in 1939, missed Dunkirk, was made PoW and spent the war in a number of locations, all of which were fresh in his mind. He was repatriated in a Lancaster in May 1945 and the whole thing was an amazing story.

I doubt I'd have regretted not asking him, because I'd never have known what I'd lost. But instead we have a far richer picture of him now that he's gone.

You make a very god point, and one which I have had close personal experience of.

Mrs ATN's late grandfather was at Arnhem as a medic, and obviously saw many very distressing injuries. He talked little about it, but back in the 90s when the UK was commemorating the Battle of Arnhem, the memories that the coverage brought back landed him in a mental hospital for some time. Not everyone want to don their old uniform and remember their experiences in war, many, especially those who served during the times of conscription would rather pigeonhole their experiences, but the media fails to understand this.

[SpringHeeledJack]

I think that very traumatic experiences are often pigeon-holed to varying degrees as the psyche is just too over-flooded with stressful data to process it properly. A survival method perhaps, to keep the organism going and functioning. In the past (100years and further), there were no tools/methods to safely release these maladies from the mind, so we just got on woth things, perhaps even had to just to survive normal daily life. Observing people with majorly traumatic experiences attempting to release their effects, it's a tricky business and for some you are just cast into a fast flowing river where respite is often being whirled around in various eddy currents when you think you've managed to find the river bank.

Those generations preceding us were very practical, because they had to be, and the pigeon-holing and not discussing a part of that.

[derjodel]

Plenty of people saw Hitler. I mean, there are videos of him talking to huge crowds. In Vienna, he held an anschluss speech from the hofburg palace balcony (heldenplatz). Many people saw him, but it kinda wasn’t really a thing to brag about after ww2.

Also, the part about hiding from nazis is a bit strange. Brother was enlisted - so they were not jewish, right? They were also not hiding, or he would not have to go, right?

but really, what’s the obsession with seeing a politician from that era with her own eyes? I once saw Gorbachow with my own eyes, less than 10 meters away from me. So... what?

[PAXboy]

Hokulea I think it's fine to post here. Not least, other topics are quiet at the moment! My father was also Nav/Rad operator in Mosquitos and Beaufighters.

In my work with bereaved people across the last 29 years, I have spoken to countless numbers of British and European people about the war. I have met those who were on the Kindertransport, those whose families saw the writing on the wall and got out early. I have met those whose families did not get out early. I have heard the story of a women who survived the war in Vienna by continually moving her hiding place. I met a Jewish man who was in Berlin on Krystallnacht but one of the most memorable was a story of a two Jewish teenagers who escaped from Austria, through the mountains to Switzerland.

May I suggest that you ask her about the escape? That will prove interesting and memorable. In the process, when and where she saw the parade will probably emerge - including it's place in her memories.

My father wrote a memoir in his retirement that was intended for his children and grandchildren and those of his pilot. By good fortune, it was also published. My father had spoken little of the war, there were photgraphs on the walls and we attended memorials and fund raising events. He said, "When I started to write, it just poured out of me." He would now be 96 years old. There were many things I did not ask him but his memoir gave us many answers.

I also agree that a grandchild may be spoken to more easily than a child. I have heard this reported numerous times.

[fauteuil volant]

Fascinating though this topic is, I'm not sure how it meets the description 'aviation history and nostalgia' (unless the two concepts are meant to be mutually exclusive - which I doubt).

[Quemerford]

It's certainly nostalgic and I don't see why anyone minds the discussion. One could always ignore and go to another thread; or post something positive maybe?

[ExSp33db1rd]

Erm.... isn't this an aviation forum?

Someone mentioned Hermann Goering. Fits the bill. If you've never heard the name, look it up.

[India Four Two]

Hokulea, lots of interesting responses. My recommendation is "Ask away".

My Dad fought in Burma during WWII and rarely talked about his experiences. I wish I had asked him more questions while he was alive.

[rog747]

In the 1930's (Hitler became Fuhrer in 1933 and by 1934 his control was Total & Absolute) many wealthy Brits and Americans were doing the ''European Grand Tour'' usually with Thomas Cooks.
Other less well heeled travellers took to walking & cycling tours by train and taking the mountain air in Bavaria and such like.

Some had the privilege of colour Cine film cameras at that time taken by these travellers.
There are some superb archive films of Hitler himself at various rallies, State events, or 'public' gatherings (1936 Olympics being one such) and how Germany and its towns and Cities were being ''Nazi-fied'' being adorned with flags and soldiers seen everywhere.
The new buildings of modern Germany was apace.

The curiosity then to visit Germany by foreign travellers was not uncommon.

Travel and Tourism from 1933 until 1939 was still popular to Germany but there was a growing uncertainty and fear that Hitler was out for more than just annexing old Territories.
Obviously many folk living there (and also in Austria and Czechoslovakia) knew this danger far more well than any of the well heeled Thomas Cook Travellers.

Likewise as the the OP's mother who now at 87 may have some stories to tell, if she can, and if she wants to.

Visits by 1930's travellers to the growing Nazi controlled Germany and then ultimately annexed Austria were still going until summer 1939 and this was still at a time of appeasement and ''who is this little funny fella with a tiny moustache'' but by Summer 1939 many tourists were quickly returning home having seen the 'change of mood, and that a Gathering Storm was looming' and the knowledge that War was likely.

In addition to the tourists leaving we know that many Germans and Czechs were also trying to flee...
A read up on Sir Nicholas Winton is both sad but fulfilling.

I highly recommend a 10 day Tour that I did last year ''Hitler, The Face of Evil - The Rise & Fall of Nazi Germany''
This tour tells the whole story of the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich chronologically from its birth in 1919 Munich, to its bloody end in Berlin in 1945 and the Aftermath.
You will learn a lot from this - My guide was Author and Historian Roger Moorhouse
We started in Munich (where it all began) then to Berchtesgaden in the mountains, Eagles Nest & the Berghof, The stories of the locals and farmers there hiding out in the mountains from the Nazis, back to Dachau, Nuremberg, for Rallies and Trials, Lake Wannsee and the Villa, Templehof, 1936 Olympic Stadium, and many of Berlin's historic buildings & sites both above and underground.

We also visited Wagner’s Museum & Opera theatre in Bayreuth, Bavaria. Hitler was Wagner's No.1 fan.
We were made uncomfortably familiar from photographs of Adolf Hitler (the keenest of Wagnerites) arriving in State, surrounded by swastikas and outstretched-arms.
Hitler would then wave to his adoring crowds during the Opera interval from a first floor balcony.
That the Nazis annexed Wagner wasn’t wholly Wagner’s fault: he had, after all, been under that black, untitled slab for half a century before Hitler came to power.
But his extra-musical writings – which covered everything from the evils of Judaism to the virtues of a vegetarian diet were a gift to the Third Reich.
It’s a subject that three generations on still haunts the Wagner family – who still run the annual music festival.

[ATNotts]

rog747

I have not done as many of the historical Third Reich sites and museums as you but have been to the rally grounds in Nürnberg, and boy did it feel very strange standing where Hitler did and look out over the field. I can't describe the feeling, it just didn't seem right. I also went, on the same trip to the Dokucentrum in Nürnberg, and on a later holiday to the Berchtesgaden "Eagles Nest". If you can speak German and read some of the documents in these museums they provide a real insight into the "other side". Generally speaking we in the UK are fed, for good reasons, a very UK centric view of the war.

Your trip sounds really interesting from a historical perspective, and it is something that I would be very interested to do. History has two sides, and wherever possible it's good to learn about them.

[rog747]

rog747

I have not done as many of the historical Third Reich sites and museums as you but have been to the rally grounds in Nürnberg, and boy did it feel very strange standing where Hitler did and look out over the field. I can't describe the feeling, it just didn't seem right. I also went, on the same trip to the Dokucentrum in Nürnberg, and on a later holiday to the Berchtesgaden "Eagles Nest". If you can speak German and read some of the documents in these museums they provide a real insight into the "other side". Generally speaking we in the UK are fed, for good reasons, a very UK centric view of the war.

Your trip sounds really interesting from a historical perspective, and it is something that I would be very interested to do. History has two sides, and wherever possible it's good to learn about them.


I was very impressed to see at many of the places we went to that new exhibition halls and more Documentation Centres have been opened and/or being upgraded - In both German and English.
The sight of many young German students and study groups with their teachers was very evident - At last Germany seems to be passing down its darker history to be told in a constructive way to its young.
We must remember that many of these sites are deemed ''Toxic'' and frankly the German's did not know what to do with them for the past 50 years or so.
I am glad that they have not been bulldozer ed into oblivion but are now able to be seen by all and described there what happened.

Our guide Roger Moorhouse was fascinating. I learn't so much.
This was my tour -
https://www.historicaltrips.co.uk/tour/17/Germany/The-Face-of-Evil.html?site=UK

For 2021
https://www.theculturalexperience.com/tours/the-rise-and-fall-of-nazi-germany-history-tour/?sid=8242aaf296c9f7c93816157da59176eb

I may do their 2022 Burma Tour (my trip this year was cancelled)

[ATNotts]

I was very impressed to see at many of the places we went to that new exhibition halls and more Documentation Centres have been opened and/or being upgraded - In both German and English.
The sight of many young German students and study groups with their teachers was very evident - At last Germany seems to be passing down its darker history to be told in a constructive way to its young.
We must remember that many of these sites are deemed ''Toxic'' and frankly the German's did not know what to do with them for the past 50 years or so.
I am glad that they have not been bulldozer ed into oblivion but are now able to be seen by all and described there what happened.

Our guide Roger Moorhouse was fascinating. I learn't so much.
This was my tour -
https://www.historicaltrips.co.uk/tour/17/Germany/The-Face-of-Evil.html?site=UK

For 2021
https://www.theculturalexperience.com/tours/the-rise-and-fall-of-nazi-germany-history-tour/?sid=8242aaf296c9f7c93816157da59176eb

I may do their 2022 Burma Tour (my trip this year was cancelled)

What you say about the Germans attitudes is so very true, back in the 70s when my Dad was working on the MRCA as it was then called he spent a lot of time working with MTU, and on a couple of occasions I remember as a child him entertaining a couple of his colleagues at our house for dinner. Both almost couldn't wait to apologise for the war; fast forward to the beginning of this century and people talk about is as history, and I never heard an apology from my German colleagues and bosses. It's refreshing, but I suppose not entirely surprising. I just find it sad that many people in UK, and not just the older generation continue to "fight the war" not helped by our jingoistic print news media.

[Quemerford]

In my dealings with German work colleagues, I find them a joy to work with and socially we have a great deal in common. Our sense of humour seems to be very similar too. It does make one wonder how we managed to fall out - twice.

[Alpine Flyer]

By all means talk to whomever is still alive about those days. History is many-faceted and different people will have experienced different bits of it. As said before, seeing Hitler was not that rare, whole schools were sent to wave to his open-car motorcade when he traveled through Austria after it had been annexed in 1938, and they probably had to fight for space with a lot of others wanting to see him. Remember that was a time when speaking to the masses was a required political skill as radio set saturation in households was far from 100%.

Living in a city that was bombed was certainly awful but I remember an uncle, then about 12 years old, telling me what an adventure is was for his friends an him, who ignoring the bomb raid sirens rather than going to a shelter, went out into the fields to watch dogfights between Allied escorts and German fighters and maybe even see a bomber crashing. For them it was just another adventure. (For those a few years older, it was more serious as they were drafted as auxiliaries manning flak guns, carrying ammunition, etc.)

Depending on what you saw it is quite understandable that you might not want to talk about it, although there are some books detailing such youth war experiences.

I regret not talking more about those times with my grandparents and parents when they were still alive, so I have to fall back on bits and pieces that surfaced occasionally.

[DownWest]

I had a US friend, now gone, who, while in school in Germany, argued with the Hitler Youth guy who came round to talk to them about how good it was going to be. After the debate, the school principle told him to get away as fast as he could, as they would be looking for him. He moved to France then when that was over-run, Britain. He wanted to help, so, while still a German national, joined the British Army. When it became apparent he would be given unimportant duties as they didn't trust people like him, he joined the special forces and managed to get some action. Changed his obviously Jewish name to Bentley as, while likely to be executed anyway if captured, he might get better treatment.
War over, he emmigrated to the US and started a sucessful engineering company, married a very waspy lady who bred race horses.
Further down the line, after the wall went down, he had to go back and deal with the several properties that had been confiscated from his family . Virtually all of whom died in camps. We talked about it and it very tricky for him to go back, but he felt he had to do it for the few remaining members of his family who were not so well off as he.
I have rarely met such an ethical and entertaining person and miss him.

[lederhosen]

A now deceased friend was tasked as a child with taking some flowers to an aunt to mark her birthday. The aunt was a nurse in a Munich hospital and she was a little surprised how quiet everything was. In any case she bounded up the stairs and literally ran into three leather coated men. The middle one with a distinctive moustache took the flowers and thanked her. Her family were less impressed when she finally owned up as to what happened to the flowers. In any case she would often avail listeners of this tale, lamenting her 'Nazi Past'.

[Hokulea]

I would like to thank everyone again for being so kind and providing so much information in this thread. Special thanks to certifs, PAXboy and rog747. I looked up tours by Historical Trips and either to due to the pandemic or other reasons I don't see the Hitler tour you mentioned, but it is one I would certainly take if I get the opportunity. Several years ago I offered to take my mother on a tour of Normandy and other places my father visited after D-Day but she declined. I suspect she thought it would be too hard for her emotionally. I'd still like to visit those places myself. I remember my father saying he was in Belgium and could see the V2 rockets being launched and felt so frustrated he couldn't do anything about them.

I have two further questions if you don't mind and given you've all been so helpful I have no problem if you can't help further. Anyway:

1) rog747 - could someone who is disabled go on the Hitler tour you mentioned? Not horribly disabled, just not able to walk very far;

2) My father told me several times he shared a tent with someone who became a famous Welsh opera singer. I don't know the exact dates, i.e., not sure if it was before or after D-Day (I suspect the former), but does anyone have any idea who that singer might have been? They would have served in the RAF during WWII and worked with an RDF/radar group and presumably gone on to become relatively famous for their voice. Any information would be very welcome.

India and Spring - nice to see you here! I hope both of you are doing well!

[Grumpyauldgit]

Hokulea,
Very interested in your story and indeed, all the other postings.
I "googled" your request and think Sir Geraint Evans may be the name you are looking for. He was in the RAF and trained as a radio engineer.
Out of interest, my father was taken as a 9 year old boy by my grandfather to Berlin in 1936 and saw Hitler at the Olympic games. My 94 year old mother confirmed this today when I told her about this particular forum.
Regards, Grumpy.

[sandiego89]

Definitely ask her. I have found in several cases, including my Grandma, and my wive's grandma, they both had the thoughts "oh, no one wants to hear those old stories" thinking the younger generations had no interest. My Grandma "never spoke" about the loss of her brother in the Philippines (Corporal Paul Warhoover, USA) until I asked her about it one day. She was still saddened about it, but was fine to talk about and she was happy to hear we had put his name on a remembrance list at the National Mall in Washington DC.

My wife once asked her Grandma what it was like during prohibition and at first got the "oh you don't want to hear all that old stuff" but then she got talking and it was fascinating.

[Haraka]

A good (deceased) aviation doctor friend of mine heard him speak in 1936 and described his oratory as "electrifying", Same friend was one of the first in to the concentration camps and looked the other way as summary justice was handed out by the inmates to their oppressors ........

[Hokulea]

Thank you, Grumpy! I'm sure that's the person with whom my father shared a tent. My father could also sing a bit - I wonder if he picked it up from Sir Evans? Thank you again!

[esa-aardvark]

Did a tour of my erstwhile boarding school, in Germany. Had a look in the 'bunker'.
Row of latrines, all with pot but no door. The end one had a door labelled 'Fuehrer'.
I don't think he ever used it.

[oldchina]

I may be wrong, but notice that folks of my generation refer to it as "the war", whereas "WW2" or "WWII" is common among those for whom it's history

[SpringHeeledJack]

As did the participants (in all senses) of WW1 referred to it as "The Great War". I guess that with the perspective of time, and the consequent conflicts/wars, they need to be collated in some way so as to distinguish whats what. When you've been part of/lived through a massive continuous conflict of all out hostilities you have every reason to refer to it as 'the' war.

[Hokulea]

oldchina - I always try and specify which war I'm referring to for the reasons SpringHeeledJack mentioned. I've always assumed that if you say "the war" then different people, perhaps different generations, will think of different wars. I also assume that "the war" might be interpreted differently depending on which country you grew up in and when. I certainly get your point, but someone who served in Vietnam might refer to that as "the war".

[Allan Lupton]

I may be wrong, but notice that folks of my generation refer to it as "the war", whereas "WW2" or "WWII" is common among those for whom it's history
The Great War did not become the First World War until the Second World War had been with us for a good few years. My father, who had served in it, would refer to "The last War" during the Second War, but I can't remember how he referred to it in the post-war years.
"WW 1" and WW 2" are good examples of abbreviated forms that take longer to say than what's being abbreviated (c.f. WWW in our time!).

[Hokulea]

This is turning into a very interesting discussion. I didn't mean it to turn out this way, but this is the beauty of online forums.

So, back in around 1984 or so, I gave up caddying at Sunningdale. Nearly everyone I caddied for was a rich jerk. There were exceptions, but I got fed up being treated as a piece of dirt so started working part-time at a nursing home. It made sense at the time, I would work weekends there while being at school and both my mother and sister were nurses and it sort of ran in the family. On my very first day of work there I became friends with a man called Arther Swales. He was 101 years old, experienced both WWI and WWII and god knows what else. I would stay after work just to talk to him and we both loved cricket. His sight had gone but he loved listening to TMS so we would sit together listening to England being thrashed. I even became friends with his family. I learned so much from that wonderful man and was so upset when I learned he'd passed away at 102.

Excuse me, I'm raving a little bit, but in the six years I worked there, from school to university just trying to keep myself above water financially, I cared for two or three men that had lived through WWI, but several more old ladies. Nearly all of them had been engaged to or married soldiers that fought during that war and their husbands never came back. If my memory serves, none of them remarried - that was the done thing back then.

I'm not quite sure why I mentioned this, but it had a profound effect on me - a generation that lived by principles and stuck to them. I hope people understand why I posted this.

For those curious, this is where I worked:

https://ben.org.uk/our-services/care-services/care-centres/lynwood/

The place has changed a lot since I last worked there around 1990, but I have so many stories I could tell just by caring for the people there, but most of them would be about cars! However, I still think back to those days and feel grateful I was able to spend time with and learn from that generation.

[rog747]

I would like to thank everyone again for being so kind and providing so much information in this thread. Special thanks to certifs, PAXboy and rog747. I looked up tours by Historical Trips and either to due to the pandemic or other reasons I don't see the Hitler tour you mentioned, but it is one I would certainly take if I get the opportunity. Several years ago I offered to take my mother on a tour of Normandy and other places my father visited after D-Day but she declined. I suspect she thought it would be too hard for her emotionally. I'd still like to visit those places myself. I remember my father saying he was in Belgium and could see the V2 rockets being launched and felt so frustrated he couldn't do anything about them.

I have two further questions if you don't mind and given you've all been so helpful I have no problem if you can't help further. Anyway:

1) rog747 - could someone who is disabled go on the Hitler tour you mentioned? Not horribly disabled, just not able to walk very far; I would say yes - we had a 90 yo on our tour and he was OK. I would speak to the Tour Co.

Here is the Tour for 2021 link -
https://www.theculturalexperience.com/tours/the-rise-and-fall-of-nazi-germany-history-tour/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=5th%20September&utm_content=5th%20September+CID_7e08c02d650d5da54057e9493cac b082&utm_source=Email%20marketing%20software&utm_term=ise%20%20Fall%20of%20Nazi%20Germany%20tour




Hope that helps - More info here on the Tour----

https://theculturalexperience.cmail20.com/t/ViewEmail/r/5997D73C84C3CD382540EF23F30FEDED/68F4BE24B19ABFAB2018F019E6F15D33

[akerosid]

As it's the 91st birthday of this comic legend, I hope you won't mind my adding a little levity to this thread. Here the great Bob Newhart talks about mistakenly seeing Hitler (and on a plane, too!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkEQPKT0Eqc

[Mr Mac]

akerosid
Perfect, had not heard him for a while and had almost forgotten how good he is.
Cheers
Mr Mac

[Hokulea]

Thank you, rog747. I've registered my interest on their site.

[Bergerie1]

Hokulea,

Thank you for starting this thread, I think many of us have mixed up feelings about these things, you are not alone.

My father was captured shortly after the fall of Singapore and spent the war in Changi, he was fortunate not to be sent on the Burma railway. I was born in Penang shortly before the Japanese arrived and my mother and I were lucky enough to be evacuated to Australia in the nick of time. He was not.

When my father returned after the war he hardly ever spoke about his experiences, and I only found out about some of them from reading other people's accounts. My mother said little about what he had told her, but when ever she watched the film 'A Town Like Alice' she nearly always ended up in tears.

During my flying career, I flew through Singapore many times, but could never bring myself to visit Changi. Looking back now I wish I had, but I just had a mental block about it.

Many families were traumatised to varying degrees by what happened back then - on both sides.

Thanks again for posting.

[Hokulea]

Bergerie1 - thank you so much for that, it makes me feel I haven't wasted my time. And thank you to everyone else who has responded, you have all been a tremendous source of information.

When COVID allows, my plan is to fly back home and spend time with my mother. She's healthy and pretty intelligent, so am hopeful she'll still be around when that opportunity returns. We spent last Christmas together and I know it won't be the last time I spend with her, and am now more determined to get her to talk. Obviously my tactics will be gentle. I know a lot about my father's service, but still know little about my mother's WWII experience, and I won't feel complete until I learn that. It's not something I think I can do on the phone, this has to be face-to-face. We get on well (that wasn't always the case but it is now) so I think this will happen.

Thanks to all of you who understand this thread and please understand my admiration and appreciation for all of you that have served your country. All of you are remarkable people and deserve thanks from everyone enjoying their freedom today.

[Private jet]

Thanks to all of you who understand this thread and please understand my admiration and appreciation for all of you that have served your country. All of you are remarkable people and deserve thanks from everyone enjoying their freedom today.

I'm not really sure what this thread is about to be absolutely honest. My grandfather shook Hitler's hand, but I think what is forgotten is at that time people had to tow the line, or risk a black car coming for them in the night..... Way too many on here are "experts" on history from a very, very distant perspective... My mother came to the UK from Germany in the 50's to work as a nanny for a Jewish family, the first one that comes to mind with all you keyboard experts.They didn't have a problem, but some "little Englanders" did.and still do