Voyager Parties

[Countdown begins]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8677865/Military-police-arrest-RAF-Voyager-captain-drink-flying-moments-jet-off.html

it’s a shame.

[Jhieminga]

Voyagers – known as the petrol stations of the skies – support sorties by RAF Lightning and Typhoon strike aircraft used for precision bombing of Islamic State strongholds in Iraq.
Learned something today....

[Meester proach]

Whoops.
Akrotiri was a great gig when we civvies did it . About min rest if i remember , but good fun .

Never forget the giant foam hands waving us off from the tower

[Busta]

I remember those riotous parties.

[Easy Street]

Well, I hope the crewmembers concerned are punished suitably. I'm more angry about the 'source', though. Portraying what could just as easily be termed a 'concern for safety' as 'desire for revenge' compounds the entirely avoidable reputational damage wrought by airing such dirty laundry. So now, instead of looking like an organisation dealing appropriately with its miscreants, we appear to be a spiteful, point-scoring bunch of individuals. I recognise that it's all too easy to fall into the trap of shooting the messenger, but in this case the legitimate messenger was whoever called the police. All the 'source' has done is made an already bad situation much worse. From the candid, ill-considered nature of the comments, I wonder whether they even realised they were talking to a journalist...

[The Nip]

Well, I hope the crewmembers concerned are punished suitably. I'm more angry about the 'source', though. Portraying what could just as easily be termed a 'concern for safety' as 'desire for revenge' compounds the entirely avoidable reputational damage wrought by airing such dirty laundry. So now, instead of looking like an organisation dealing appropriately with its miscreants, we appear to be a spiteful, point-scoring bunch of individuals. I recognise that it's all too easy to fall into the trap of shooting the messenger, but in this case the legitimate messenger was whoever called the police. All the 'source' has done is made an already bad situation much worse. From the candid, ill-considered nature of the comments, I wonder whether they even realised they were talking to a journalist...

Disappointing you have been taken in by a report in the DM. There is a report, re members of crew being removed from an aircraft. The rest is, at the moment, just a story, unless you know differently. But it makes for a story.
Depending where people stand, this will either be those saying it is spiteful, or someone potentially saving an aircraft and more importantly lives.

[Easy Street]

Disappointing you have been taken in by a report in the DM. There is a report, re members of crew being removed from an aircraft. The rest is, at the moment, just a story, unless you know differently. But it makes for a story.
Depending where people stand, this will either be those saying it is spiteful, or someone potentially saving an aircraft and more importantly lives.

Disappointing that you're unable to distinguish between uncritical belief in media stories and concern for public perception. I know nothing about the incident, which makes me no different to the average punter reading the story. Rags that the Mail and its online namesake may be, they have sizeable readerships and influence public views. Implying that there is little or no reputational damage because the backstory could just be made up is like saying that the Army suffered no reputational damage from the Mirror's made-up prisoner torture story during TELIC.

Anyway, ways of working at the heart of government mean that unnamed 'sources' carry more weight with the public than they really should.

[Runaway Gun]

I don’t remember those riotous parties.

[Bob Viking]

What I find most shocking is that tanker crews were forced to sleep on base. Times must really be tight.

BV

[Shytehawk]

Back in the 60's and 70's visiting crews used to stay in the "Curious Palace". Walking distance from Hero's Square.

[mole man]

Should have gone to Chris's restaurant off base, like the good old days of the mighty VC10

[Tankertrashnav]

What I find most shocking is that tanker crews were forced to sleep on base. Times must really be tight..

Really? Never once stayed off base during my many visits to Akrotiri on Victor tankers in the 70s. Our bitch was we always got the worst accommodation, whilst the pampered pets of the shiny transport fleet slept in air conditioned luxury in blocks 100 and 101. Only once did the worm turn when an unwise VC10 NCO called out "there go the tanker trash" as they slogged past on the way to their own inferior billet. Unfortunately for him the party contained a well known irascible red headed squadron leader navigator, who immediately ordered the NCO out of his room, which he promptly allocated to one of the tankers guys. The VC10 captain took offence, and took the matter to the station commander, who wisely came down firmly on the side of the tanker flight commander.

[OHP 15M]

What I find most shocking is that tanker crews were forced to sleep on base. Times must really be tight.

BV
You'd need a gallon of Kokinelli to get to sleep in those unconditioned blocks in the middle of summer!

[The AvgasDinosaur]

Just one more reason not to read that scurrilous rag.
ONLY three things correctly reported in there
Date
Price
Horoscope
everythin else is made up or fiction
David

[Two's in]

When I had the virtues of flight safety drilled into me, it actually didn't matter about the rank, qualification, role or the ultimate intent of the person reporting a potential flight safety incident, all that mattered was you had the integrity and moral fortitude to try and prevent something quite terrible from happening to our brethren in the aviation community.

If you want to protect the reputation of the service, you might want to think about that before you publicly act in a way that causes others to think there might be a flight safety issue. This is nothing to do with the reporting or information source standards of a gutter rag I wouldn't wipe my arse with, and everything to do with professional standards. This incident is a long way from reaching its legal and judicial conclusion, but it's already a massive own goal, whatever the outcome.

You already said "don't attack the messenger" and yet proceed to do exactly that.

[DuncanDoenitz]

Any word on the Lightning and the Typhoon? Did they go to another petrol station, or are they still up there?

[Easy Street]

all that mattered was you had the integrity and moral fortitude to try and prevent something quite terrible from happening
...
You already said "don't attack the messenger" and yet proceed to do exactly that.

If you read my post again, carefully this time, you will note that I drew a distinction between the person who (correctly) notified the authorities and the 'source' who spilled the story to the press. There's no integrity or moral fortitude involved in the latter, just unthinking, damaging spitefulness.

[waddingtonpete]

Please read the DAOSR for the real story

[BEagle]

DASORs aren't normally available for the genpub to read, so your advice is perhaps of rather limited value?

[Axel-Flo]

Is there actually a Mg limit for breath or blood testing aircrew laid down now then? The old no drinking within 50ft of the aircraft and moderate drinking in the 24 ft beyond that kind of rule did leave it open to interpretation and I’d guess make it harder to secure any conviction at a CM or in civilian court?

[Timelord]

There are much more stringent limits for civilian public transport workers including pilots, train drivers etc than the standard breathalyser limits. I believe that these now also apply in the military to everyone involved in flying activities.

[Tashengurt]

Is there actually a Mg limit for breath or blood testing aircrew laid down now then? The old no drinking within 50ft of the aircraft and moderate drinking in the 24 ft beyond that kind of rule did leave it open to interpretation and I’d guess make it harder to secure any conviction at a CM or in civilian court?

I believe it's only 9Mg per 100ml of breath for aircrew.

[Ken Scott]

Limits posted in GASOs/ OM A, for blood, breath & urine, all 25% of UK drink driving limits.

[BEagle]

I believe it's only 9Mg per 100ml of breath for aircrew

9 microgrammes per 100ml of breath!

See: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2013/9780111100455

[Just This Once...]

I believe it's only 9Mg per 100ml of breath for aircrew.

That was the stretch target.

[Le Chiffre]

Yep, and for various other 'safety critical' duties too.

35 microgrammes for most duties but down to 9 if you are doing something a bit more 'safety critical' then just 'run of the mill safety critical' if that makes any sense.

I'm not sure how that compares to civvy strasse - can anyone enlighten me?

[Easy Street]

I'm not sure how that compares to civvy strasse - can anyone enlighten me?

The military limits were copied directly across from the Railways & Transportation Act 2003. See Part 5 for the aviation limits, including a list of the roles to which the 9 and 35 apply.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/20/contents

[PapaDolmio]

13mcg in a breath sample for all Railway Staff working in a safety critical role, includes drivers, conductors, signallers, control staff, technicians ... even the bod on the platform with whistle and lollipop.

Testing is done randomly (quotas per 4 week period for testing) and following any kind of safety incident, failure in 99.9% of cases means instant dismissal and forget getting any sort of job on the railway again.

From experience, most colleagues do not drink for 24 hrs before a shift, I dare some there are some there who will chance it but that's up to them. Although I'm not in an SC role I hold a Personal Track Safety card so could go trackside without notice, plus when travelling for work 'on the cushions' I am expected to assist the train crew in an emergency, therefore I leave the alcohol until Friday or Saturday evenings only unless I'm on call over the weekend when it's none at all.

If you talk to some of the old BR boys boozing used to be endemic until some spectacular accidents in the 60s and 70s. Folklore says that Tommy Bray (Mallards fireman on the world record run) shovelled around 7 tons of coal during the record run and drank an equivalent amount of beer afterwards!

[Fareastdriver]

When I was operating in Shenzhen, China, the oil company that had contracted us demanded a random breathalyser check once a week. There were no facilities in China, in fact no breathalysers, so we sent out teetotal chief engineer to Hong Kong once a week to do it there.

[langleybaston]

"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there."

When I were a lad, drinking in the Met. Office was far from unknown. This included on duty ....... as recently as the 1970s I had colleagues, forecasters, bring a six-pack on night duty, and prepare TAFs and route forecasts and do 1000 bomber raid station briefs as a matter of course. The larger, mostly civil, offices with long Day shifts had liquid lunches. In retrospect, totally reprehensible.
Fortunately, my holy high moral stance was driven by medical problems, so I had a 24 hour rule until I hung up sea weed and fir -cone in favour of admin.
The big crack-down became possible when smoking in the office was banned: management had an opportunity to be hard-arsed and attempt to solve both problems at the same time. Needless to say, winning a popularity contest was unlikely.

Before anyone else makes the point, I am not at all sure that the forecasts by the sober out-performed those by the rat-arsed.

[wub]

One morning at Akrotiri in the 1970s, an eagle-eyed local controller spotted a figure collapsed by the nose wheel of a Belfast that was due for departure. Medics and fire crews were dispatched to find that it was the captain, who, having spent the previous night in The Swan kebab house, had stopped to throw up during his walk round.

[airsound]

langleybastonI am not at all sure that the forecasts by the sober out-performed those by the rat-arsed. Brilliant! With an attitude like that, lb, do you think you could come back and advise the current Met Office? I'm sure they'd appreciate it....

airsound

[langleybaston]

langleybaston Brilliant! With an attitude like that, lb, do you think you could come back and advise the current Met Office? I'm sure they'd appreciate it....

airsoundThank you, but, to be fair, the present bunch do remarkably well, even if po-faced and political.
I served under great men and women, proper meteorologists and scientists, with 40 year careers and Doctorates. Even if they did like a drop!
These days no way would three good A Levels give a platform for a career such as we old folk enjoyed. Besides that, the RAF that we served has changed beyond recognition.
Don't tempt me!

[B Fraser]

Boozing at the Met Office ????? I remember a lunchtime birthday bash in "The Isobar" where a shapely young thing came into the bar dressed in her underwear but had balloons taped to every available surface. The birthday boy was then given a pin.

I don't think I did much that afternoon.

[sharpend]

Really? Never once stayed off base during my many visits to Akrotiri on Victor tankers in the 70s. Our bitch was we always got the worst accommodation, whilst the pampered pets of the shiny transport fleet slept in air conditioned luxury in blocks 100 and 101. .

I over-nighted at Akrotiri many times. Never once off base. Yup, most of the time in that luxurious 5* accommodation known as Block 100. Wonderful it was. Rats, toilets totally disgusting (no loo seats at all), no locks on doors, male/femalel all together, and the building was condemned. I was stationed at Akrotiri in the 60s & block 1001 was terrible then! After GW1, the powers that be decided to build a new decent block for transit aircrew. As soon as it was built, the resident schoolies and civilians moved into it. We still got block 100 and all that entailed. As for Tankertrash always getting the worse accommodation, I think that is just a wee bit economical with the truth. Either that or we must have stayed at different Akrotiris :)

[oxenos]

Only once stayed off base at Akrotiri. On the crew bus next morning, Nav Captain said to one of the siggies "God you look terrible - who were you drinking with last night?" "You, Sir" No more was said.

[PapaDolmio]

Thank you, but, to be fair, the present bunch do remarkably well, even if po-faced and political.
I served under great men and women, proper meteorologists and scientists, with 40 year careers and Doctorates. Even if they did like a drop!
These days no way would three good A Levels give a platform for a career such as we old folk enjoyed. Besides that, the RAF that we served has changed beyond recognition.
Don't tempt me!
Boozing in the Met Office? Whatever next?

The only training course I ever attended in 30 years service where the bar was open (and used) was the Met Observer course at Shinfield.

[langleybaston]

Boozing in the Met Office? Whatever next?

The only training course I ever attended in 30 years service where the bar was open (and used) was the Met Observer course at Shinfield.
Ah! Yes!

Old Tom in charge behind the bar.
Breakspears draught. Smelt like sewage but after a couple who cared? The bar was in the lovely old Shinfield House, ex-Fighter Command minor HQ in the war, complete with Eagle statue.
The squirrels were semi-tame, and ate scraps from the students, and sometimes ate scraps of the students.
The Principal used my son and I, each with a 22 air rifle, to cull the little buggers. We would nominate a target, and fire simultaneously. Squirrels never knew what hit them. The other big perk was being near to Arborfield Garrison, complete with stables. Offspring could do the full Pony Club thing in exchange for shovelling sh1t and grooming. And free bags of sh1t when dad collected.
The Instructors at Shinfield had the best jobs in the organisation, and most were moved on after 3 or 4 years to retain real world currency. As in a demanding Wing Co Ops or Wing Co Flying.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Times have changed. In the early 1980's returning from a NATO Drink Ex err I mean EW course, a participant had over achieved at the end of course pub crawl. The next morning he was dragged to the taxi and decanted at the air base main gate were the Hercules home awaited. The only problem was the airplane was a fair distance away, however a fork lift with an empty pallet happened by. For a generous cash donation the driver agreed to have the the still unconscious guy flopped on the pallet and driven to the airplane were the pallet was slid on and secured. He woke up when it got really noisy and could not understand where he was, and why there why there was ratchet straps all over him !

At the time everyone thought the story was hilarious, god only knows what the fun police would do to all involved today......

[MENELAUS]

Back in the day of the FI airbridge, the seasoned travellers would pop a couple of Mogadon (? sic), washed down with a mouthful or three of Famous Grouse, just after lift off and camp down in their green maggots on the rear ramp of the Herc. On this occasion the crew did some refuelling northbound to Ascension, not long after airborne, and they broke the probe.. So return to Stanley, whereupon the sleeping beauties on the ramp couldn't be roused, so they were unceremoniously dumped by eager beaver on to pallets on the pan. And then reloaded equally unceremoniously on to the replacement aircraft. When they eventually came to, they took some persuading that we'd turned around and re departed, and equally p@ssed off that they still had 8 hours to go.