Passenger sues easyJet after crew told her to move seats to satisfy Orthodox Jews

[PAXboy]

I'm posting here, rather than in the easyJet thread as this is a new turn of events and might face other operators to Israel.
The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/27/woman-sues-easyjet-after-being-told-to-move-seats-due-to-ultra-orthodox-jewish-men)

A British-Israeli woman is suing easyJet after the low-cost airline asked her to move seats on a flight from Tel Aviv to London following objections from strictly-Orthodox Jewish men who refused to sit next to a female passenger.
The article relates that it happened to the woman twice on different flights with easyJet.

[Load Toad]

I always think in these situations that if your religious beliefs are at odds with societies norms you simply shouldn't put yourself in a position where you are at risk of 'sinning'. So they shouldn't fly unless they charter an aircraft just for themselves.

[PAXboy]

I suspect that some of those people consider their preferences to be the word of god and therefore above all else. I see in the article that El Al had a successful case against them for this a couple of years ago. That woman was a Holocaust survivor ...

[Bergerie1]

Why not ask the men to move or leave the aircraft. It is most unfair on the woman. I hope she wins, but is it really Easyjet's fault?

[PDR1]

Interestingly if you read the Qu'oran you see that Mohammed described a religion tailored to the needs of traders and travelling merchants, and he explicitly says that when in other countries and cultures the devout must respect their customs and laws as they would their own. The whole "you must allow my rules to over-ride yours even in your country" crap is a modern invention of the Islamist (ie polictical) rather than Islamic (religious) zealots.

"Orthodoxy" in any religion is almost invariably a political rather than religious culture.

PDR

[SpringHeeledJack]

Surely when inside an aircraft in the air one is under international law, but with priority towards the law of the country that the aircraft is registered in ?

[Less Hair]

Strange to pass on their problem to a fellow passenger. If they cannot find a seat that fits their special request they have to buy and reserve another empty one or get out. Next time a vegetarian demands not to sit next to somebody having the beef? Where should this end? People share some commercial aircraft cabin full of other people. Better get used to it or fly private jet.

[Momoe]

Springheeledjack, plane was on the ground when passenger asked to move.

Irrelevant anyway, as it's clearly gender discrimination.

Less hair, their problem is the other passenger but it's their problem not hers, totally agree with you in that they need to reconcile travel with some inconveniences or find another solution.

[DaveReidUK]

Why not ask the men to move or leave the aircraft.

But Easyjet didn't.

I hope she wins, but is it really Easyjet's fault?

See above.

[redsnail]

El Al won't move people for religious reasons. EasyJet's policy is to not move people on religious reasons either. It's possible an FA wasn't aware of this. The passenger was asked to move, she was not told to move. (A difference).

[PAXboy]

Would you want to sit alongside that person for the duration of the flight? I think this falls into the category 'white male privilege'.

[krismiler]

When traveling on a commercial aircraft you need to be prepared to leave your prejudices at the door. You may be sitting next to someone of a different gender, race or religion, so accept it or find another means of getting there.

Suppose a Muslim refused to sit next to an ultra Orthodox Jew and the Jew was asked to change seats ?

There are circumstances in which a seat change request would be reasonable but these would probably also be grounds for telling the offending party to desist or leave the aircraft.

In Thailand, monks have reserved seats on public transport and Thai Airways would ensure that a monk wasn’t seated next to a female on an aircraft. This is a societal norm in that country, similar to reserved seats for the elderly and pregnant women. Outside of Thailand they shouldn’t expect special treatment.

[PAXboy]

There are several cultural strands involved, I suspect. Some might be:

What the person has been used to in their home country and an inability to see the world any other way.
'My way of life' is better than your way of life.
The innate belief that your tribe is better than any other tribe. [Tribe may be defined as anything, incluidng being from a particular suburb of a city, to supporting a football club, to an entire nation]
The encouragement in the past 40+ years that we have rights that can superseed others. Most noticable this year in those who will not wear a mask, for several different reasons, but all amount to not caring about others.

[vctenderness]

I had this happen many times. It is a difficult one to resolve particularly on a full aircraft. Sometimes it was possible to move the male next to another male but this often resulted in the female taking offence.

One thing that surprises me is that the woman is an Israeli citizen and should understand the problem. Not that excuses it.

I once ended up handcuffing a senior Saudi government official who discovered, after quite a few Johnny Walker Blue labels, that the chap sitting next to him in first class was a jewish lawyer who was suing his son in Los Angeles and decided a smack in the chops was required!

He was met by both the LAPD and the US welcoming committee.

[S.o.S.]

Thank you vctenderness, that's a good story. I do appreciate all the folks who drop into the cabin in these empty days. Otherwise, I'm just wandering up and down the aisles by myself ...

[redsnail]

woman is an Israeli citizen and should understand the problem.
You could say that that male Orthodox Jew passengers also know the problem/rules. In Israel passengers are not moved for religious reasons. El Al won't do it, easyJet shouldn't do it either. I believe the female passenger was asked, not told. A subtle difference. However, I believe she had paid for an extra leg room seat and was naturally not happy to give that up for such a long journey. I know I wouldn't be too happy about it.

[Less Hair]

Was she offered refund?

[krismiler]

Ultra Orthodox Jews also have a problem with being served food by a woman when it’s her time of the month, believing her to be unclean. It’s not unknown for them to ask female cabin crew questions regarding this before accepting food and drink from them.

Delightful people, they even refuse to do military service in Israel but are quite happy to be defended by women in the army whilst their men remain safe at home.

[Doctor Cruces]

My first thought on a reply to the men would be, well don't fly then. I hope the Flight Crew and all of the Cabin Crew were women