Clothing.

[Sunfish]

I am finally irritated enough to consider buying some sort of jacket for flying. I’m sick and tired of trying to get at the phone, handkerchief, sunglasses, find a biro or a pencil, etc. when trussed up in a seatbelt and shoulder to shoulder with a companion. A jacket with pockets at the front and an “arm office” seems to make sense. In any case windswept airstrips make a jacket necessary, at least here in winter.

I am however concerned about fire risk. Polar fleece and all plastics except nomex are a huge liability in a fire so I’d rather think of leather as a compromise because nomex is too pricey.

Forget the Ace on base squadron patches, Ray bans and dinner plate sized watches, this is about comfort not style.

Any observations and suggestions?

[morno]

Why not get a flight suit? And a helmet too? Can’t be too careful

[Squawk7700]

Why not get a flight suit? And a helmet too? Can’t be too careful

Good idea. You won’t need a face mask if you’ve got a helmet.

Gloves would also be a good idea. Not too thick though, as it will be hard to get your pencil out of your pocket and some gloves don’t work when you press on your iPad screen, so maybe fingerless.

So many things to consider for the safe operation of a small aircraft!

[john_tullamarine]

In a previous life I had a lot to do with fabric materials flammability characteristics.

Leather is a good start but beware of decorative treatments, some of which are flammable.

Just about all materials you might choose are able to be treated to make them fire resistant. Try a search along the lines of "fabric fire resistant treatment.".

The problem then is the extent to which any given treatment tolerates laundry processes. Some may need to be reapplied after washing, for instance.

From that previous life and the many flame test procedures I did, some of the then treatments were nothing short of miraculous, transforming very hazardous fabric materials into near flameproof products.

[morno]

Sunfish, do you take this much consideration into what you wear in the car? After all you’re more likely to be involved in an accident going to get the milk

[Ndegi]

An African Safari jacket should have enough easily reachable pockets to meet your needs. Just put on an extra T shirt on in winter (or move to QLD/NT for the winter!! Seriously, they are a practical jacket for flying.

[Sunfish]

I suppose I’m lucky, nobody has yet suggested the Ronald McDonalds clown suit. One gentleman who posts here does wear nomex gloves. I’m afraid plastics are not something to be worn if there is a danger of fire, they melt into the skin.

As far as driving cars goes, I can always stop if I drop something, nor do I have to navigate or consult forecasts.

I suppose you could take the fatalistic view, if you hit hard enough for a fire, you are not likely to be in any condition to worry about fire.

[Aussie Bob]

Last time I was in Melbourne I went through the major bike shops in Elizabeth St. They had some really good jackets made out of cotton as well as denim. Quality items I briefly considered for dress or flying jackets. Cotton, wool and denim are all reasonably flame retardant.

[A37575]

so maybe fingerless.

Excuse me - we call them Derro gloves.
Signed Homeless man

[Stickshift3000]

Last time I was in Melbourne I went through the major bike shops in Elizabeth St. They had some really good jackets made out of cotton as well as denim. Quality items I briefly considered for dress or flying jackets. Cotton, wool and denim are all reasonably flame retardant.

That's probably the last time you'll see them. If they haven't shut they've moved to cheaper locations...

[Ixixly]

Sunfish, do you take this much consideration into what you wear in the car? After all you’re more likely to be involved in an accident going to get the milk

Give it a rest Morno, everyone knows you don't like Sunfish, we get it. The bloke is trying to be safe and practical, I really don't see the point in mocking someone in doing that tbh.

You'll pay a bit extra for Nomex but they'll do the job fantastically both in terms of fire resistance and having all the pockets and spots you want. Go check out the Sisley range, I used them in a past job and actually really liked them. Perhaps look around and see if there is anyone selling surplus stock or send an email directly to Sisley and ask them if they have any surplus available for purchase that will suit you.

[Ixixly]

Oh and if anyone is actually wanting gloves, I got a great set from Kathmandu that worked perfectly with touch screens as well so would recommend going and seeing them for a good set. They were their own Fleece Gloves with little pads on the tips of some fingers to allow them to work and were quite warm. Even had little connector on them so you can clip them together when not in use so you don't lose a single.

[Less Hair]

Do you guys have any safety vest requirements? Maybe keep this in mind? ANSI certification and such.

[subsonicsubic]

Found these (https://store.glennsarmysurplus.com/usgi-issue-nomex-cwu-45p-tan-desert--flight-jacket-medium-p575.aspx) which look good value and a lot cheaper than many out there.

And this. (https://store.glennsarmysurplus.com/usgi-nomex-flyers-jacket-lightweight-ml-p858.aspx)

Best,

SSS

[Lead Balloon]

I usually go for the day-glo spandex mankini with velco patches on the shoulder straps to secure pens, pencils and other cockpit essentials.

Safety meets comfort meets utility.

[Sunfish]

Leady, do you favor the Airforce fighter pilot spandex mankini or the Qantas rainbow one? Can’t make up my mind. However you have to be very careful not to get hairs in the throttle quadrant.

[Lead Balloon]

I stick with the Borat brand. Special reinforcement for the nether regions.

[cattletruck]

If you plan on getting wet then either a mankini or this fishing vest will do.

https://www.amazon.com/Foxfire-Ultimate-Travel-Hiking-Safari/dp/B007RERSV6/ref=as_li_ss_tl?th=1&linkCode=sl1&tag=roadaffair-20&linkId=13509b9b241a7c3b364dcb08c8cd7b2f&language=en_US

Mind you, wearing the above could probably land you a job in FNQ as a tour bus driver, provided you can escape the Victorian border.

[gerry111]

I go for $20 jeans and a $5 T shirt as I'm more fatalistic (but less fashion conscious) than some here..

[Fred Gassit]

I go for $20 jeans and a $5 T shirt as I'm more fatalistic (but less fashion conscious) than some here..
Sounds like you haven't bought your own clothes since about 1990!

[Huntaway]

Why not get a flight suit? And a helmet too? Can’t be too careful
I get that people think might think flight suits are pretentious or over the top for general aviation, but the company I work for has us wear flight suits and if I did any private flying I'd probably wear one too. Mostly for the convenience of not getting oil and dirt on my regular clothes and having most of what I need in my various pockets, and a scribble pad on my thigh. The fire retardant bit is just a bonus should it come to it.

[Tinstaafl]

I had a leather jacket made to order by a mob in Sydney some 30 years ago. I based it on one of their off the rack models and had them make some changes: I added pen pockets on the upper L sleeve, a longish skinny pocket on the right breast area for sunglasses, a square 4" pocket with clipped flap for my CR5, plus larger flapped pockets at belly level with hand warmer pockets behind. Also a couple of inside breast pockets. And a removable sheepskin collar for chilly bloody weather. Still have it today.

[Squawk7700]

Sounds like you haven't bought your own clothes since about 1990!

Lol, I was going to say the same thing. Other than a Good Will store, where does one get jeans for $20 ??

[gerry111]

Lol, I was going to say the same thing. Other than a Good Will store, where does one get jeans for $20 ??
I bought them a while back from a 'Bravo Whisky' store that was having a sale. (They currently sell the same plain cotton T shirts for $4! Great for using as oil dipping rags after wearing..)

[Sunfish]

Thanks to “Subsonic”, I think I might have snagged an unlined military surplus nomex jacket without badges and suchlike. A jumper underneath if necessary and I’m good to go. Pockets for wallet, keys, phone, glasses, pens and PLB.

.....Goes over the mankini ..........

[morno]

I get that people think might think flight suits are pretentious or over the top for general aviation, but the company I work for has us wear flight suits and if I did any private flying I'd probably wear one too. Mostly for the convenience of not getting oil and dirt on my regular clothes and having most of what I need in my various pockets, and a scribble pad on my thigh. The fire retardant bit is just a bonus should it come to it.

No, I didn’t say General Aviation as such, I was more inferring your Sunday warriors like Sunfish. Tell me the odds of Sunfish actually being in the situation whereby he’d need such unnecessary clothing.

Flight suits when it’s your job is a different kettle of fish.

[cattletruck]

As someone who's had a sh!tbox Warrior catch on fire on take-off I am very conscious about the clothing I wear when flying. No Nomex, but mainly 100% cotton including underwear.

I've also flown with people that wear bone domes in rather benign craft, I guess it's all about personal past experience, like me.

[KRviator]

No, I didn’t say General Aviation as such, I was more inferring your Sunday warriors like Sunfish. Tell me the odds of Sunfish actually being in the situation whereby he’d need such unnecessary clothing.I wear an old tactical-type vest in the RV every flight, without exception. It's got a first aid kit, my PLB, small survival kit and a bunch of other goodies tucked in its' various pockets. I don't plan on ever using anything in there but if I do prang it, I might not have time to get anything else out beyond what I've got on me. Using the explanation "I fly in a plane I built in my back shed!" makes answering questions at the fuel bowser easier! :}

[Sunfish]

Morno, I second your wish that Sunday warriors were non inflammable. However this Sunday warrior has had to deal with a fire in a Cessna 172 that did about $11000 worth of damage. There is nothing quite so galvanising as smoke filling the cockpit just after takeoff. My main concern in having something fireproof, apart from saving my own skin, is to be able to continue to operate the aircraft or help others for as long as possible.

I have a healthy respect for fire gained in the CFA and if there is cheap and available fire protection then I think any pilot should consider getting some. If you have a fire and you are wearing polar fleece and synthetics, maybe synthetic runners as well, you are going to end up with extremely painful third degree burns if you survive and the hospital staff will have the delightful task of trying to separate what is left of your skin from what was molten plastic.

No synthetics except nomex, for me.

‘As for driving a car, I can always stop and get out.

I also work on Murphy’s law: if you have the safety gear, you will never need it.

[currawong]

Sunfish, you should be able to pick up a practically unused ex-mil. nomex jacket from any number of local surplus stores for about $100.

Availability is variable.

[outnabout]

Sunfish:

FYI - For every flight I have ever been on (as SLF or PIC), it is a requirement for the crew to be clothed.

[uncle8]

Lol, I was going to say the same thing. Other than a Good Will store, where does one get jeans for $20 ??
Not far off https://www.harrisscarfe.com.au/hs/Brands/Bullshead/BLSH

[Sunfish]

Currawong, yes. However nomex mankinis are rather hard to find.

[Centaurus]

I have a healthy respect for fire gained in the CFA

Couple of anecdotes broadly aligned with this thread.

1. Flew with attractive young female in a Cessna 172 on her first dual cross-county flight from Essendon. She turns up wearing extremely short shorts. A bit distracting especially in such close proximity during the three sectors. On engine shutdown back at Essendon, I bit the bullet and tactfully suggested she wear clothing more suitable for future flying as an engine fire in flight could mean heat leaking through the rudder pedal area causing burns to bare limbs. Same with her sandals which showed her uncovered toes. She accepted the advice gracefully as no one had told her about this before.

2. During my time in the RAAF I was converting a senior officer to the four engined Lincoln bomber which invariably always had a slight smelt of petrol fumes in the cockpit because of the presence of fuel crossfeed cocks near the main spar. Some old aeroplanes have their own smell. For example the Dakota cockpit invariably has a whiff of hydraulic oil. The senior officer, a Wing Commander of about 40, took his place in the left seat and in the process of strapping in he suddently stopped and cautiously sniffed the air.

"Can you smell petrol" he asked me. I said it was a normal Lincoln smell.

"I don't care" said the Wingco. "We are not flying this aircraft" and with that he unstrapped and went back to his office, summoning me to follow him as he left the aircraft. In his office he told me he had flown Baltimore light bombers against the Germans during the Western Desert battles in WW2. These were flown single pilot apart from a navigator and gunner. He had watched one start its engines before takeoff. There was an explosion in the cockpit area which enveloped the pilot with fire. The pilot was unable to escape the flames. The investigation found that particular aircraft had a history of petrol fumes pervading the cockpit before start-up. On this occasion an electrical spark must have ignited the fumes.

The Wing Commander said the sight of the unfortunate pilot was forever in his mind even in peacetime and that unless one had seen what he had seen, petrol fumes didn't particularly concern some pilots.

After that episode our ground staff airmen checked the cross-feed pipes in all the squadron Lincolns and found evidence of fuel stains. The Wing Commander was right and after that maintenance was tightened up.

[krismiler]

Boiled frog syndrome, tiny whiff of fuel which gets worse extremely slowly. Everyone gradually gets used to it and accepts it as normal.

You can sometimes tell which aircraft a pilot flys by the type and location of the stains on his clothing. Westwind Pilots typically have a large carbon stain on the upper arm/shoulder area from reaching into the engines to depressurise the thrust reverser. Metroliner Pilots have lines of oil from contact with the edge of the gear doors. High wing Cessna Pilots have a gas stains from drips from the fuel drains.

[Derfred]

Great story, as always, Centaur.

Kris, B737 pilots always have a dark stain on their shoulder from ducking in and out of the wheel well, constant cuts on their hands from sharp edges in the cockpit, an indent in the top of their skull the exact size of the SERV/INT switch located on the rear overhead panel in a cockpit that anyone over 5’9 thinks they can stand up in but can’t, quite, and are deaf in one or both ears due to a cockpit noise level that legally doesn’t require even passive noise attenuating headsets. The last one is probably not exclusive to the B737, of course. :)

[Sunfish]

Anyone of a certain age has a dint below their right eye socket from the peep sight of an L1A1SLR.

[Derfred]

Anyone of a certain age has a dint below their right eye socket from the peep sight of an L1A1SLR.

At least those who managed to reach the “certain age” were obviously on the lucky end of one... :)

[Checkboard]

Flame retardant.

Hi Vis for the ramp nazis.

Pockets

Waterproof for winter.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Hi-Vis-Custom-Winter-Work-Safety_62166276534.html

[krismiler]

A safety vest can always go over a coat or jacket so you still have plenty of options. Workwear shops usually have suitable clothing which complies with the relevant standards. I used to have a waterproof coat in navy blue and light green with luminous strips which was great for night freight.

I still buy from work clothing suppliers and occasionally army surplus shops, usually you’re getting a hard wearing item at a reasonable price. These shops are patronised by people who want durable clothing and aren’t interested in paying for fashion.

King Gee have a “Cool Max” fabric range which is great in tropical climates, looks smart and costs about half of what you would pay for something similar in a fancy camping shop.

[PoppaJo]

Clothing can be sourced from the likes of BW or Kmart for next to nothing these days. BIGW sells organic cotton tees for what $7? Usually have a few in the car and take spares for the Sunday Adventures.

Tropics flying attire can be challenging. Bug smashing Sunday sessions with the young fella and I’m practically naked. Even commercial ops I avoid the the tie or jacket. A previous employer (Airbus) actually let us wear shorts. Current company not.

[aroa]

RAF fine kid leather gloves ...good for protecting the hands and feeling the switches.

[sheppey]

I am however concerned about fire risk
If you are concerned about fire risk make sure you aren't wearing a nylon wrist watch band. Or anything nylon. The material melts into your skin when exposed to flame and leaves terrible burns. Same with nylon socks. In the 1960's the RAAF issued aircrew with wristwatches with nylon bands. These were replaced with metal bands when the fire danger of nylon became known.

[Sunfish]

Shep, same rule applies in CFA. we don’t wear synthetics at all.

[Traffic_Is_Er_Was]

I suppose you could take the fatalistic view, if you hit hard enough for a fire, you are not likely to be in any condition to worry about fire.
Not so much the fatalistic view, more the realistic one.

[currawong]

Helmet is to keep you conscious through the impact sequence, to be able to extricate yourself before it gets too hot.

Have posted this before.

https://youtu.be/kh9QkRG5Skw

[the_rookie]

Clown suit would be fitting