WW2 Alcohol limits

[Tartiflette Fan]

I'm unsure if this should be here or JetBlast, but here goes .

In WW2 what were the permissible alcohol limits before flying operationally . Haven't been able to find it via normal searches

[Marly Lite]

The minimum was 5 pints of ale the night before and a jolly good sing song.

out of interest how old are you?

[JustinHeywood]

I don't think they had breath analysis machines back then, which was probably a good thing.
I did read that many BoB pilots relied on the head-clearing ability of pure oxygen first thing in the morning. Youth and adrenalin probably helped as well.

[Timelord]

Read Geoffrey Wellum’s book “ First Light”. I don’t think there were any limits! By the way JH, the hangover curing properties of pure oxygen were still much valued in the 70s and 80s. By the 90s the attitude to drinking was changing for the better.

[Herod]

In my thirties I found a whiff of O2 worked wonders, but not when in my fifties. I reckon they were producing inferior oxygen!

On thread, no means then of recording alcohol levels. Even the traffic police were using the "walk the white line" test well into the sixties.

[FantomZorbin]

"walk the white line" test ... known as part of the BAGS test: Breath, Attitude, Gait, Speech.

[George Glass]

I reckon if you could take a Lancaster to Berlin and back successfully in 1944 blood alcohol level was pretty much irrelevant.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

TROOO!!! I would 'second' that !!!

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

I refer the OP to 'Lancaster Target' by the late-lamented Jack Currie; Chapter 7 - The New Squadron Forms (626 btw) and the antics of 'Tony' and his need to imbibe ale at lunchtime. 'Tony' also re-appears in the sequel 'Mosquito Victory'. Both books (damn good 'reads', each) will tell you all you'll need to know.

[Four Types]

Never drink within 40ft of an aircraft and never smoke 12 hours before take off.

[aw ditor]

Reminds me of the old US Navy FS' Poster " No Smoking in Bed & No Sleeping in the Ashtrays".

[Green Flash]

I refer the OP to 'Lancaster Target' by the late-lamented Jack Currie; Chapter 7 - The New Squadron Forms (626 btw) and the antics of 'Tony' and his need to imbibe ale at lunchtime. 'Tony' also re-appears in the sequel 'Mosquito Victory'. Both books (damn good 'reads', each) will tell you all you'll need to know.
I had the great honour to drink in the same pub as Jack and he would often knock off a chapter at the bar on a portable typewriter. The corner of the bar where he sat is now named in his honour with some Lanc and Mossie memorabilia.

[Herod]

known as part of the BAGS test: Breath, Attitude, Gait, Speech.
"The Leith police dismisseth us". Try that three times quickly.

[MPN11]

... By the way JH, the hangover curing properties of pure oxygen were still much valued in the 70s and 80s. By the 90s the attitude to drinking was changing for the better.
There was a JP Refresher student at Manby (c. 1966) who drained the O2 test rig on many mornings, after arriving early to ensure privacy. No idea what happened after he was identified, though.

[OvertHawk]

"The Leith police dismisseth us". Try that three times quickly.

I can't even say that sober!

[GeeRam]

Read Geoffrey Wellum’s book “ First Light”. I don’t think there were any limits!

Quite.

Different world 80 years ago.

Even 50 years ago.

[Fareastdriver]

I always found that a stiff winged collar affected the neck seal of the immersion suit.

[BEagle]

1970s V-force station....

Land after night flying and repair to the scruffs' bar.

Beer is 20p per pint. 5 in the crew, a round is a pound.

We all buy our round.

We all drive home.

MADNESS!

[MPN11]

20p??? That would be the NEAF Bomber Wing, then! 😎

I left UK for Tengah about a fortnight after the breathalyser came in (1967). Fortunately I was within walking distance if all my local pubs, as I was back at my parents’ place on embarkation leave. And for the next 2.5 years in Singapore, nobody seemed to care very much. I only declared myself unfit to drive once, after a PU on HMS Hermes docked at the naval base, and after bouncing off kerbs on both sides of the road through the base invited Jules Leigh to take control of my Sprite and get us home. <insert further Singapore drink/drive stupidities>

But we were young and indestructible in those days. And the WW2 guys never knew if they’d see the end of the week.

[Pontius Navigator]

Never drink within 40ft of an aircraft and never smoke 12 hours before take off.
it was more stringent than that, it was 50 feet. Regarding smoking, there is ample contemporary evidence of lighting up at the aircraft steps. It may well have given rise to the ritual per in the pan.

[Pontius Navigator]

On one memorable occasion my skipper was sick before take off and slept soundly for the next 4 hours. We had absolute faith in our copilot and departed Goose as scheduled. The Det Com was no doubt aware of our skipper's inebriation though he had help it well until we opened the door and handed the evidence to the groundcrew.

We knew our flight was one of the highest profile ones featuring in the CinCs morning brief. At the very least cancellation would have led to a hats on with the AOC. NO one blabbed and he got away with it. As BEatle said, different times, madness.I

On my first sqn we had an alcoholic; it was the security service that withdrew his clearance that grounded him. We had another in Cyprus, just before BEagles time, who had DTs. No sanctions. And another in the early 80s who chewed Amplex and sprayed breath freshener before getting in to work.

Hard rules set for punishment rather than medical he!p.

[doubletap]

Had an EA6B formate on me during Gulf1...all 4 had a can of Coors in hand.

[MPN11]

... Regarding smoking, there is ample contemporary evidence of lighting up at the aircraft steps. It may well have given rise to the ritual pee in the pan.
Is that where the Coughman starter originated? 🤪

[cheese bobcat]

One Saturday morning after a heavy night in the bar the crew retired to the bowling alley at Goose. Well breakfast stretched into lunch and, of course, we had few bevvies. I was approached by one of the staff who said that there was a phone call. It was the Det- Com saying there was a big fire threatening the tank farm with the possibility of a large explosion and we needed to get airbourne. I explained that we had all been drinking and was told we could sober up on our way to Scampton!

Fortunately, the wind changed direction, so we retired to the bar.

CB

[The B Word]

Within my own time in the mob (I’m still in), I can recall cycling to work because I was too under the weather to drive - within a couple of hours I would be strapping a jet to my back. It was only in the last 20-25 years that it started to get more serious with respect to breathalysers. 1997/98 seems to ring about true.

[BBadanov]

Had an EA6B formate on me during Gulf1...all 4 had a can of Coors in hand.
Yes, but you know what was said about Coors?
"It's like making love in a canoe...f**king near water!"

[Yellow Sun]

Within my own time in the mob (I’m still in), I can recall cycling to work because I was too under the weather to drive - within a couple of hours I would be strapping a jet to my back. It was only in the last 20-25 years that it started to get more serious with respect to breathalysers. 1997/98 seems to ring about true.

In fact it all started to change somewhat earlier than that. Does anyone recall the introduction in the 1980s of blood tests as part of the Annual Medical and the rather curious little form you had to sign consenting to it? Whatever you were told was the reason, one of the motives was to identify the alcohol abusers.

Hard rules set for punishment rather than medical he!p.

Not at all sure about that. I saw more than one officer quietly moved into a non-post as a result of their condition. I felt that people were willing to help but unfortunately the system at large didn't really have the mechanisms or processes to do so. It wasn't until I moved into civil aviation that I witnessed a textbook case of how it should be handled with help, support, access to treatment and subsequent reinstatement of medical, licence and livelihood.

YS

[Fareastdriver]

General Le May was being shown around the latest B47 and as usual he had a cigar going. A young Lieutenant asked him to put it out as the airplane might catch fire.

Le May looked at him and said; "it wouldn't dare!"

[rolling20]

Wartime beer was reduced to around 2% ABV, so relatively weak.
​​​​​​According to various accounts, it took a lot to get drunk. From 1940 until 1944,there was literally no whiskey produced, unless illicitly. So one would imagine it would have been rather expensive.
Beer of course was never rationed, being seen as essential for morale.

[Jump Complete]

Wartime beer was reduced to around 2% ABV, so relatively weak.
​​​​​​According to various accounts, it took a lot to get drunk..

At 2% ABV I think I’d hit my liquid limit well before my alcohol limit and I’m not a heavy drinker!

[BEagle]

When the inferior VC10 mob were flying OP WARDEN trips from Bahrain, one lot were tested on their way IN to go flying and had to leave the car at the gate as they were over the driving limit. Then they went flying.....

[doubletap]

When the inferior VC10 mob were flying OP WARDEN trips from Bahrain, one lot were tested on their way IN to go flying and had to leave the car at the gate as they were over the driving limit. Then they went flying.....
...remember Simpo’s ‘Sharpeners‘ Beags??

[stevef]

I had the great honour to drink in the same pub as Jack and he would often knock off a chapter at the bar on a portable typewriter. The corner of the bar where he sat is now named in his honour with some Lanc and Mossie memorabilia.

One of my favourite authors, he had an easy and humorous style. I was saddened to hear of his death in 1996. I've always been intrigued as to what he did in the RAF between 1945 and 1964. Anyone know?
Back to the thread - he admitted to flying an Halifax as an instructor after drinking too much beer and whisky in a maudlin mood prior to the night detail. The book was Mosquito Victory, if I remember correctly.

[rolling20]

There is obviously a bit on the net and a farcebook book page, but I'm not a farcebook member so cannot read it.
IIRC, I remember from somewhere that he was a member of 44 Squadron, which must have been postwar.

[Beamr]

This doesn't quite answer the original question, nevertheless an intriguing case of ingenuity in challenging circumstances (i.e. mates running out of beer). Would love to see how innovatively the modern day crew would arrange this on, say, F35.

https://www.businessinsider.com/british-pilots-beer-runs-world-war-ii-2016-9

[rolling20]

S/L John Hartnell Beavis in his book Final Flight, tells of how on a Sunday morning pre-war, he would fly through the clouds into the blue above and stand up in the cockpit of his Tiger Moth to 'blow away his hangover'!

[Pontius Navigator]

Cheese Bobcat, was that when the C124 Globemaster landed in the tank farm? They were lucky, the tanks had just been filled. I saw one tank badly blackened, the wreckage had been removed.

[meleagertoo]

The RN stopped drinking before flying in the mid '70s I believe. Until then it was perfectly normal, according to ex colleagues, to have a pint or two of lager in the wardroom after lunch and then go off on the afternoon flypro. And not just the helo pukes either, Phantoms and Buccs were still in service then. Apparently the signal 'Effective Immediate' was read out in the wardroom before lunch one day by Cdr(F) completely out of the blue and was not at all kindly recieved.

There are myriad tales since then, some of which must be true, of the OOD entering the bar at close to midnight on a friday or saturday, silencing the revellers and telling all SAR rated crews to report to their squadron for immediate launch.
The technique apparently was to go down the line and ask how many pints each had had and pick a crew from the lowest.

[OvertHawk]

The technique apparently was to go down the line and ask how many pints each had had and pick a crew from the lowest.

I know of that happening (on at least) one night the 80's in the civvy offshore world when everyone had retired to the pub after the end of evening flying but the ops officer had forgotten to tell the pilots which of the late crews was on night standby.

So when the call came in for the standby crew for a casevac everyone laughed and looked for the standby crew only to find there wasn't one.

Then came the "how many pints have you had Bloggs" selection process!!

Would not happen now ( I hope) - should not have happened then.

[rolling20]

12.1.1950- ......The urgently picked crew for Lancaster SW363 was made up of highly experienced Officers and men who had been selected for their extreme competence and abilities – each was an Instructor in his chosen field, and between them, they had the experience and knowledge to carry out the task allocated to them successfully. Due to their positions as Instructors, they were ‘self-briefed‘ before take-off. It was probably unfortunate that on the night of 12th January 1950, when the call came through to find an Aircraft and Crew to ferry Naval Divers from Leuchars to Manston to take part in the rescue efforts for HMS Truculent, all of the Officers had been attending a ‘Dining in‘ night at Kinloss. Although each Officer had been drinking, the Board of Inquiry that followed the crash examined the Mess returns for the evening and decided that no Officer had drunk more than 4 sherrys and that therefore alcohol played no part in the accident. Although in today’s society, driving a Car after drinking 4 sherry’s would undoubtedly lead to complications. Most agree with the Board of Inquiry – the time between the Mess Event and take off, combined with the competence of the Crew and the urgency of their mission, would have left them clear-headed and up to their task. The fault that caused the mid-air fire was certainly beyond their control, and the Officers at the controls of the Lancaster had only seconds to react. Although the Fire Extinguishers hadn’t been triggered, everything else showed that they attempted an immediate ‘wheels-up’ landing.

One cannot today imagine a BOI deciding 4 sherry's played no major part.

[oldmansquipper]

I don't think they had breath analysis machines back then, which was probably a good thing.
I did read that many BoB pilots relied on the head-clearing ability of pure oxygen first thing in the morning. Youth and adrenalin probably helped as well.

as TM TG 13 on the worlds premier recce Sqn (RAFG late 70s) It was a challenge to get first use of my section Godfrey Mask Test Cabinet O2 on a Monday morning Before the pilots got in....if you waited til after their brief, they would have drained the tanks. Nothing left for us lot to eradicate the effects of a Sunday afternoon/evening in Mammas Weeze.

I also remember my brother, a hunter pilot on 4 Sqn (yes the numbers did go that high once) telling me of a Taceval (58 time?) being called whilst the summer ball was in full swing, and the next thing he recalled clearly was approaching FL 20 Heading south. 100% O2 working its wonders again...

happy days.

[taxydual]

Lancaster SW363

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/25260

[esa-aardvark]

Back when I worked, we were a hard drinking lot, our Director
issued a directive, anyone drinking at work should take a taxi home.
After work parties were very common, and the Chiefs had to pay for the Indians.
Helped a lot with morale, but not necessarily with morals.

Director paid, that was after the local police found him over the limit
after a few drinks at work.

[John Eacott]

The RN stopped drinking before flying in the mid '70s I believe. Until then it was perfectly normal, according to ex colleagues, to have a pint or two of lager in the wardroom after lunch and then go off on the afternoon flypro. And not just the helo pukes either, Phantoms and Buccs were still in service then. Apparently the signal 'Effective Immediate' was read out in the wardroom before lunch one day by Cdr(F) completely out of the blue and was not at all kindly recieved.

There are myriad tales since then, some of which must be true, of the OOD entering the bar at close to midnight on a friday or saturday, silencing the revellers and telling all SAR rated crews to report to their squadron for immediate launch.
The technique apparently was to go down the line and ask how many pints each had had and pick a crew from the lowest.

Indeed, many was the lunchtime beer before PM sorties in the late 60s/early 70s; not by me, of course.

I recall a few trips where someone wasn’t feeling the sharpest after a night on the tiles, but we all thought there was an ulterior motive when one Sea King driver mysteriously disappeared from the squadron after his ‘airsickness’ episode leaving Gib. Most of us weren’t feeling much better!

Following a night ditching of a Gannet off Ark there was a mad scramble to the 824 briefing room to put together a couple of crews to go off and retrieve any survivors: for some reason we had been celebrating in the wardroom when the call came. Only two of us had the (sober?) foresight to go via our cabins and don goonsuits so we took the second cab, as the Boss (in mess undress) had already manned the first machine. My offsider was copilot and spent pre launch following the Boss around the cockpit, rearranging the switches into an eye pleasing pattern such as Generators on, AFCS on, etc. They lurched airborne and actually found the Gannet pilot, and were called by Mother to hold off as the Ship’s Flight SAR Wessex was two minutes away with a doc and SAR Diver on board. The radio response of ‘I found him, he’s mine’ didn’t endear the Boss to anyone, least of all the Gannet driver who was water skied at the end of the wire before suffering an experience worse than the night ditching.

It was a year later that a limiting number of drinks per night per officer was introduced into the wardroom, effectively shutting down many a rowdy game of liar dice, cards, etc played to decide who stood the drinks at dinner or during the film.

Then I did a course with Aerospatiale at Marignane in 1976 where the French saw nothing untoward in having a litre carafe of wine at the lunch table.

Different times, but probably heavier drinking than in Dad’s time flying in North Africa in 1943 where they couldn’t get anything alcoholic to drink in most of the desert airstrips.

[Willard Whyte]

Yes, but you know what was said about Coors?
"It's like making love in a canoe...f**king near water!"

And only one tin each.

[Paying Guest]

Then I did a course with Aerospatiale at Marignane in 1976 where the French saw nothing untoward in having a litre carafe of wine at the lunch table.

I well remember taking a Gazelle to Marignane for a hot dry weather trial in Sep 76 and being somewhat taken aback when reaching the end of the lunchtime buffet line in the Aerospatiale cafeteria to be asked "red or white with your cous cous?"

[cheese bobcat]

PN,

No, it was just one of the many fires that even todaY plagues forested areas.

CB

[Fareastdriver]

In the mid seventies I took a Puma down to Practica del Mare, near Rome for a liaison visit. When we launched to come back to the UK as we approached the Riviera we opened the flight rations provided by the Italian Air Force and Included was a bottle of Chianti.

There were three of us: When in Rome..........................

[Firestreak]

When the BoB film came out, great stress was laid on the tiredness of the aircrew. The then AoC of 11Gp (a splendid gentleman) had been in the battle. He visited us whilst in Malta and inevitably was asked about the film. Re tiredness, he said yes they were tired but not for the reasons depicted in the film. Basically, they were on standby from dawn till dusk, if scrambled there was an obvious possibility someone may not return. To cope with this, as soon as they were stood down it was off to the pub staying till late, it was their way of coping and meant not a lot of sleep.

Was once on the flight deck of an Italian Fairchild C119(?) transport, there was a small wine rack present.

Years later on Lightnings, was diverted to Jever from Gutersloh in the middle of Taceval due to crosswinds, the landing at Jever was fairly exciting, met by the Station Commander who took us to a Sqn bar as soon as we’d turned the aircraft. Just finished the first beer when summoned back to Gutersloh, a quick discussion and we both declared ourselves fit for a simple transit, it worked.

[Ascend Charlie]

An F4 pilot was visiting the base where the Mirages lived, and the night in the bar stretched on.

At 0530, said pilot was seen on his hands and knees in the bar, with his singlet pulled through his fly, mopping up spilt beer.

At 0730, he passed over the Officers' Mess in full afterburner. But who was going to complain about the CO?

Plenty more stories about this lovable character.

[Wwyvern]

Thread Drift Warning

During the early 70s, the fighting 72nd's SD crew were off somewhere secret and we received a signal requesting a replacement tail rotor. A French Transall(sp?) had been arranged to collect the item. The French aircraft duly arrived and parked at the end of the dispersal. One of us went out to invite the crew into our crewroom for coffee. They declined, waving a half-full bottle of something red out of their DV panel.

Later in life, flying the North Sea out of Aberdeen, we flew a visiting delegation from the French embassy to a French drilling rig some 100 miles offshore. The plan was to wait for the delegation to have a tour of the facility, then have lunch with the party, before flying the passengers back to Aberdeen. The Offshore Installation Manager was surprised that we declined his pre-lunch offer of a whisky.

In the early 80s, visiting the Cranfield Air Show, which was like a mini-Farnborough for GA and helicopters, to experience an afternoon flight in an Agusta 109 with a view to considering it as a single-pilot IFR aircraft, I had lunch with the Company test crews and sales people. The Chief Test Pilot and one of his tps was there, and the CTP drank only water with the meal. I assumed he would command the demo flight. His tp took in a fair amount of chianti. After the meal, the tp, not the CTP, took my arm and said, "Let's go fly."

Before all that, in early 1960s, there is no truth in the rumour that three UAS QFIs were seen at Inniskillen Airfield during an Air Day supping from bottles of dark Irish liquid before flying home.

[BBadanov]

An F4 pilot was visiting the base where the Mirages lived, and the night in the bar stretched on.

At 0530, said pilot was seen on his hands and knees in the bar, with his singlet pulled through his fly, mopping up spilt beer.

At 0730, he passed over the Officers' Mess in full afterburner. But who was going to complain about the CO?

Plenty more stories about this lovable character.

Yep, and evidently the said loveable one was met on the tarmac by the base commander on his RTB, about 0800.

[Union Jack]

"The Leith police dismisseth us and that sufficeth us". Try that three times quickly.

Fixed that for you!:D

Jack

[cavuman1]

I believe I have posted this previously some years ago, but it fits the thread well, so once again:

RUM RUNNER

Back before - way before - the U.S. embargo of Cuba (1944 to be exact), my father, a Commander in the United States Navy and Naval Architect based in Norlolk, Virginia, was instrumental in the legal if somewhat surreptitious importation of Cuban rum. His choice of transport was the venerable DC-3; in Naval nomenclature, an R4D-2. The craft flew VIP's - Admirals and their (lady) companions - regularly between Miami and Havana. These sturdy craft had a fuel capacity of 822 gallons U.S. Dad greased the proper palms of the appropriate authorities and arranged to have the dry starboard wing tank filled with 400 gallons of high-proof rum. After a number of successful and highly profitable forays, my father decided to go along on a flight to enjoy the bountiful beauty of that then-unspoiled Caribbean paradise. And he did...

Two hedonistic days later he boarded the "Pack Rat" to fly back to Miami. He noticed a line boy mounting the starboard wing, laboring under the weight of a shoulder-slung fuel hose. Suppressing a grand mal epileptiform seizure and an inexorable urge to follow through, Dad leapt from his seat and ran out of the plane onto the apron. "STOP!", he screamed at the top of his lungs. Too late! The line boy, missing a number of teeth and with his remaining dentition capped in gold, smiled broadly. He chortled: "Señor Capitan! Ju weel be glad to know that I have topped off jour right tank! Eet was theerty gallons low!" 151 Ron Rico plus 100 LL do not a fine drink make, orange slices and miniature umbrellas notwithstanding. And thus came to an inglorious end my beloved, clever, and deeply-missed father's career as a rum runner!

- Ed

[treadigraph]

Was once on the flight deck of an Italian Fairchild C119(?) transport, there was a small wine rack present.

While commanding 257 Sqn at North Weald, Bob Stanford-Tuck described how he he was grounded with a sinus problem while the rest of the squadron decimated a large raid by Italian bombers and fighters. When they returned he went with another pilot to visit the wreck of a Caproni bomber that had been shot down and crash landed in eastern Essex. They were astonished to find (and acquire!) great hampers of food and wine aboard.

[Fareastdriver]

A friend of my father used to do the flying of contraband in a fuel tank with a Mosquito; this was flying coffee into Germany. The Continent socked in with fog en route so he had to land back at Manston.

Too late they remembered the coffee. Whether it is true or not but the story is they abandoned it soon after take off to hide the evidence in the English Channel.

[MPN11]

Let's be honest, we (RAF) have a bit of reputation. A long-dormant brain cell has just recalled something my father told me. Circa 1965 he was proudly telling a business colleague (ex-RN) that I had just been commissioned in the RAF. The response ... "Ah, The Drinking Service".

[S'land]

I left UK for Tengah about a fortnight after the breathalyser came in (1967).

8 October 1967 - the day I passed my driving test. Celebrating with a cup of tea and a short drive was NOT what I had originally planned.

[Phantom Driver]

The RN stopped drinking before flying in the mid '70s I believe. Until then it was perfectly normal, according to ex colleagues, to have a pint or two of lager in the wardroom after lunch and then go off on the afternoon flypro. And not just the helo pukes either, Phantoms and Buccs were still in service then. Apparently the signal 'Effective Immediate' was read out in the wardroom before lunch one day by Cdr(F) completely out of the blue and was not at all kindly recieved..

So. Explains this little tale . Early '70's . Friday afternoon . We're all in the 228 OCU crewroom celebrating something or other . An RN crew with us , having just landed , in transit from somewhere or other . In conversation with the pilot , I say- " so , Twiggy , back to Leuchars tomorrow then ? " . He says " no , I'll be off as soon as I've finished this pint ".

Sure enough , 30 minutes later we hear the afterburners of an 892 jet blasting off.

[smallonions]

Father of a friend of mine sadly no longer with us......bomber nav. Trained as pilot, couldn't hack landing so chopped and became nav.
Cut to ops.....crew had an Aussie skipper...couldn't get in a/c unless tanked....friends father took off...skipper landed after op.....true?...hope so...

Friends dad did 42 ops..........respect....

[Ascend Charlie]

The famous Sir Charles Kingsford Smith would rarely fly sober - brandy in the coffee in the thermos was the go. But using the thermos to transfer oil from a dead left engine to a live (overheating) right engine, mid-Pacific, made the coffee taste funny after that.

My mother paid 2 quid for a joyride with Charlie, said it was a hoot.

[rolling20]

S/L Humphrey Gilbert, CO 65 Squadron was killed 2.5.42, crashing his Spitfire locally.
Interesting to note:
'They took off from Great Sampford, the Debden satellite, having consumed 6-8 bottles each of Benskins Colne Springs beer, according to the licensee of the pub. This info was not revealed until after the Court of Enquiry. The CO tried to borrow a Magister but his flight sergeant, realising that he was in no fit state to fly, told him it was unserviceable. The CO then took a Spitfire.'

[Mogwi]

Hermes Wardroom bar one evening in '82; the late great Fred halfway down a pint of CSB with his immersion suit arms tied round his waist, when the ships Exec came in and said "Hello Fred, just been flying?" "No, Sir" quoth Fred, "Just going!". With that he downed his pint, pulled his goon suit on and headed for the crewroom.

Swing the lamp!

Mog