Staines Trident crash revisited

[Judd]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_European_Airways_Flight_548

[tubby linton]

Is there anything new in your link?

[Judd]

Is there anything new in your link?

Not that I am aware of. But there is a whole new generation of pilots who have never heard of this accident. If you found the report interesting nearly fifty years ago, then maybe the current generation would too?

[tubby linton]

Blind Pew is the man to ask about Staines.

[DaveReidUK]

Blind Pew is the man to ask about Staines.

Just light the blue touchpaper and stand well back ... :O

[Jhieminga]

Not that I am aware of. But there is a whole new generation of pilots who have never heard of this accident. If you found the report interesting nearly fifty years ago, then maybe the current generation would too?
And in those fifty years, flight control systems, stick pushers and other associated hard- and software has matured to such a point that we have not seen a deep stall accident for ages. It is certainly still an interesting report, but also very much a report from those times, and personally, I was hoping for a bit more when I read 'revisited'.

[blind pew]

And an airbus with test pilot in the golf de lyon thats two stalls into the sea of modern aircraft off the top of my head.

[DaveReidUK]

And an airbus with test pilot in the golf de lyon thats two stalls into the sea of modern aircraft off the top of my head.

But neither was a deep stall (https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Deep_Stall).

[blind pew]

They were stalls that were not recovered in spite of all of the bells and whistles. As for papa india with hindsight they wouldn't had recovered from the last push as they didn't have the altitude.
The AAIB inspector involved in the national geographical white wash bull**** told me that the simulator flight characteristics were wrong; therefore the stall exercises did not reflect the aircraft performance.
The accident and the other 7 loses during my 6 years in BEA reflected management lack of abilities which involved training, crewing, flight standards and safety attitudes (common practice to destroy FDR tapes including one that concerned a flight manager).
The loss of the 1-11 during flight testing is another matter wrt deep stalls.
Having taught stalling and spinning on a variety of different machines the height loss and techniques vary considerably; avoiding and recognition are the important bits which is what Key had in common with the bus crews.
What the important part in my view is that this was a stall caused by configuration change of which BEA had at least two others which had been reported and ignored. I flew 4 other rear engined T tailed types none of which were lost through stalling.
semantics?

[DaveReidUK]

And in those fifty years, flight control systems, stick pushers and other associated hard- and software has matured to such a point that we have not seen a deep stall accident for ages.

The last documented (fatal) deep stall accident that I'm aware of was 15 years ago, in August 2005.

[Jhieminga]

Was that the high-altitude MD-82 event? Apologies, I had forgotten about that one. You could argue that this also involved the infamous 'what's it doing now' situation that's becoming more prevalent in accidents over the past few decades. My argument was that we have pretty much solved the main deep stall/configuration stall situation that, along with other factors, led to G-ARPI's crash, but along the way we have also introduced many newer and more insidious possibilities. We're not out of the woods, but the report on G-ARPI, however interesting, is becoming less and less relevant for today's aviation industry if you ask me.

[XV490]

To satisfy my curiosity, does anyone know what Stanley Key flew during WW2?

[134brat]

The Colgan Air Q400 crash was more recent than 2005. That was a deep stall resulting from crew fatigue.

[Dave Gittins]

I thought that was caused by slowing down and pulling back and at stick pusher retracting the flaps and stalling. Wasn't a deep stall and nose down and full power could maybe have saved it.

[rog747]

Jhieminga

There has been in recent years two similar MD-80 crashes from stalling at cruising altitude due to weather/icing implications either affecting the engines or not - Swift Air over the Sahara (Op for Air Algerie), and West Caribbean over Venezuela.

[DaveReidUK]

The Colgan Air Q400 crash was more recent than 2005. That was a deep stall resulting from crew fatigue.

That wasn't what the NTSB concluded.

[Bergerie1]

XV490,

I believe he was on Lancasters. A farmer down the road near where I used to live told me he was a gunner in Key's crew.

[XV490]

XV490,

I believe he was on Lancasters. A farmer down the road near where I used to live told me he was a gunner in Key's crew.

Thank you.

[DaveReidUK]

Very hard to take an article seriously that contains such a ludicrous and tasteless animation:

https://miro.medium.com/max/2413/1*28_pxNyd20RGgVAaqVoxVw.gif

Edit: Credit to Tubby Linton for his link (now deleted) to the article in question: Striking Out: The crash of British European Airways flight 548 (https://medium.com/@admiralcloudberg/striking-out-the-crash-of-british-european-airways-flight-548-f233e31e5941)

The fireball is only one of a number of inaccuracies in the article.