UK Helicopter Payscales in 2020

[helimutt]

I know this is often a subject that many don’t wish to discuss, and that’s understandable, but can we have some sort of discussion on the way the industry has historically decided payscales?
Offshore is usually covered by a CBA and Union input. This was often done with some sort of benchmarking involvement. At least when I worked offshore and was involved in discussions it was.
The onshore market is different. Instruction hourly rate R22 was around £15-25 an hour nearly 20 years ago. An FI could earn £40-45 an hour with some schools on freelance basis. This doesn’t appear to have changed in all those years since.
I would like to know what onshore pilots consider a ballpark serious Annual Salary for various tasks. I see Air Ambulance are paying more money. Police pilot pay doesn’t appear to be very high considering the job they do, and knowing that you can go straight from an R44 to an EC135 means that maybe this helps keep pay low?
What is the standard daily rate charged by a freelance Multi eng (IR) rated ATPL? Would £650 / day ( 24hrs to include an overnight) be considered too high or too low?

Thanks if you comment with input to this thread.

[helicrazi]

That was roughly the recent offshore P1 contractor rate

[HeliMannUK]

Single engine instruction - I used to earn £60 per hour in the north of england (two years ago), which is not too bad. Single engine daily rate of £250 for charter or safety pilot. Which is too cheap imho.

Offshore is a great pull because of the decent wage, Air ambulance or NPAS captain wages are close to a 2 year first officer (ish) as you probably know.

[Non-PC Plod]

I know this is often a subject that many don’t wish to discuss, and that’s understandable, but can we have some sort of discussion on the way the industry has historically decided payscales?
Offshore is usually covered by a CBA and Union input. This was often done with some sort of benchmarking involvement. At least when I worked offshore and was involved in discussions it was.
The onshore market is different. Instruction hourly rate R22 was around £15-25 an hour nearly 20 years ago. An FI could earn £40-45 an hour with some schools on freelance basis. This doesn’t appear to have changed in all those years since.
I would like to know what onshore pilots consider a ballpark serious Annual Salary for various tasks. I see Air Ambulance are paying more money. Police pilot pay doesn’t appear to be very high considering the job they do, and knowing that you can go straight from an R44 to an EC135 means that maybe this helps keep pay low?
What is the standard daily rate charged by a freelance Multi eng (IR) rated ATPL? Would £650 / day ( 24hrs to include an overnight) be considered too high or too low?

Thanks if you comment with input to this thread.
Helimut, just my twopenny worth, but I think in the current climate £650 would be top-end. Its maybe what you could ask as a TRE. I think for freelance P1 jobs you are going to be fortunate if you get much over 500 plus expenses.

[handysnaks]

Helimut. To approach your question in a different way, why are offshore salaries so much higher than onshore.
it is my contention that we have to go back to the start of N Sea O & G anD thank our lucky stars that British Airways and British Caledonian decided that this was a market they should be involved in and also that BALPA membership was strong in both of those companies. If that hadn’t been the case, then I suspect that salaries would have been much lower, and would have equated to the salaries doled out in the Gulf of Mexico.

With regard to onshore salaries (at least, Police and HEMS salaries), well when PAS and OSS started, they were sort of making those numbers up. They were never going to be able to compete with the BCal pilots who operated the Met’s helicopters, as they were mostly all volunteers from the N Sea who were naturally going to expect a similar income to their jobs up in Aberdeen.
Add to that, that really high numbers were going to kill a fledgling market stone dead at inception. After that a trend has been set.

for what it’s worth, having seen at first hand the point at which the (exceptionally pro helicopter), finance managers of a very large police force on the UK, Started to raise their eyebrows and consider going elsewhere, I think that Police salaries in particular are pretty close to their maximum, although they might manage another couple of percent more.

As for HEMS salaries, in the end, it’s not so much the willingness (or lack of) of the aircraft and crew providers to pay a particular rate, as much as the wealth, viability and income capacity of the charities.

[hookes_joint]

In the United States,
Gulf of Mexico heavy captains make around $150,000 per annum with benefits for an even on off schedule.
EMS captains make around $120,000 per annum for an even on off schedule.
Corporate pilots for private flight departments can make over $200,000 per annum.
Utility pilots and spray pilots far exceed these numbers. But risk is the price you pay.
When I moonlight for other companies doing utility work within the powerline construction, maintenance or aerial saw niche I charge $1500 per day

[Same again]

Last year Bristow were paying £650 per day for offshore captains. Onshore/corporate multi-IFR charter about the same. Difference is Bristow did not pay expenses but the onshore corporate did - and the flying was much more interesting.

[helimutt]

Helimut, just my twopenny worth, but I think in the current climate £650 would be top-end. Its maybe what you could ask as a TRE. I think for freelance P1 jobs you are going to be fortunate if you get much over 500 plus expenses.


Thank you for the reply. Interesting that you say in the current climate. Helicopter usage would appear to be picking up again and remember, we aren’t commercial fixed wing pilots (well, not all of us) in a world of pain and layoffs and base closures. I’d say if there was a surplus of helicopter pilots available, with specific experience in certain roles, then maybe you then have to fight to get the best rate you can, but then, why drop your daily rate if it’s something you’ve been getting for some time? The other point with this is that if an owner/company can afford to own and run a helicopter, they can certainly afford the pilot too!!! Unfortunately you’d be hard pushed to know this as a fact sometimes.
To me, the top end should actually be way more. I know of guys on way more that £650 and yes the corporate world do tend to pay expenses.

[heli87]

As a freelance FI on SEP, pay ranges from £45-55 per flight hour depending on where you instruct

[Non-PC Plod]

I say in the current climate, because the offshore industry seems to be going through a world of hurt at the moment, and I suspect that there is a growing surplus of highly experienced pilots out there who are going to be competing for anything going. When I was unable to work back in April, I took a short job at £500 a day, although its less than I normally expect. It was the only work I had for 4 months!

[Brutal]

The UK offshore wages are higher than onshore because no one in their right mind would fly the dullest rotary job available in the crappiest weather, wearing extremely uncomfortable attire for hours on end(and given the 14lb life jacket, potentially spine and neck damaging) dealing with all of the corporate b.s. and always being asked to be "flexible" for onshore wages? Offshore would have no one left to fly if they paid the same? :confused:

Onshore wages are now creeping up, and as Helimutt says, we are not fixed wing and there is a demand for qualified pilots. Any offshore redundancies will most likely be voluntary and the whole of the uk has a really ageing pilot fleet. No one is coming up through flight school and military leavers are few and far between...

There are jobs out there, and of the 14 tupe'd pilots from Bristow to Babcock 7 of them have already taken jobs elsewhere ( I'll leave that open for you all to ponder why):=
B.

[helicrazi]

The UK offshore wages are higher than onshore because no one in their right mind would fly the dullest rotary job available in the crappiest weather, wearing extremely uncomfortable attire for hours on end(and given the 14lb life jacket, potentially spine and neck damaging) dealing with all of the corporate b.s. and always being asked to be "flexible" for onshore wages? Offshore would have no one left to fly if they paid the same? :confused:

Onshore wages are now creeping up, and as Helimutt says, we are not fixed wing and there is a demand for qualified pilots. Any offshore redundancies will most likely be voluntary and the whole of the uk has a really ageing pilot fleet. No one is coming up through flight school and military leavers are few and far between...

There are jobs out there, and of the 14 tupe'd pilots from Bristow to Babcock 7 of them have already taken jobs elsewhere ( I'll leave that open for you all to ponder why):=
B.

Not quite correct, there is 9 of them currently training with Babcock and I dont think it was ever as many as 14

[helicrazi]

CHC have just made around 20 pilots redundant in their latest round of redundancies. 10 in Aberdeen, 10 in Norwich/Humberside.

I’d imagine with the downturn in the oil market similar numbers will be shedded from the others too.

This thread looks only to be covering contractor rates rather than salaried PAYE rates.

What’s the going rate for salaried offshore helicopter pilots in the U.K? £50k-£125k?

I'd say you are pretty much on the numbers, but I do know of P1s on the region of £150k, but that includes training allowances etc

[ApolloHeli]

No one is coming up through flight school [...] There are jobs out there

Hmm.... I'm inclined to disagree there

[Brutal]

OK Apolloheli, very very few helo pilots coming through flight school, certainly vastly outnumbered by retirements across the board....and yes, you will find jobs out there for qualified pilots.....
No redundancies for Chc in Norwich or humberside as yet.....they are still working on the numbers and we'll see what the real number is (if any) will be let go?

[HeliMannUK]

The UK offshore wages are higher than onshore because no one in their right mind would fly the dullest rotary job available in the crappiest weather, wearing extremely uncomfortable attire for hours on end(and given the 14lb life jacket, potentially spine and neck damaging) dealing with all of the corporate b.s. and always being asked to be "flexible" for onshore wages? Offshore would have no one left to fly if they paid the same? :confused:

Dont forget the equal time rosters which are superior to the NPAS/HEMS 4/4, great part-time rosters, the ability to have 3 weeks off for just 7 days, great overtime pay and a free breakfast/lunch :ok:

[ApolloHeli]

OK Apolloheli, very very few helo pilots coming through flight school, certainly vastly outnumbered by retirements across the board....and yes, you will find jobs out there for qualified pilots.....
No redundancies for Chc in Norwich or humberside as yet.....they are still working on the numbers and we'll see what the real number is (if any) will be let go?

But what do you consider qualified? Medium/Super medium type rating? Sure, I agree there'd be no problem finding work... CPL(H)/IR with MCC? No interest...

[SimonK]

Not quite correct, there is 9 of them currently training with Babcock and I dont think it was ever as many as 14

Yes you’re right helicrazi - I was one of the 14 but jumped for another position for reasons I won’t go into on here, along with several others. I think the final numbers were 2 co-pilots and 7 captains, with another captain taking a copilot slot....so 10 all in.

Back OT offshore has its flaws and a previous poster above does a fine job of giving a totally one-sided and biased viewpoint of it which I would caution as “mostly bollocks”. I’ve got close friends who’ve only ever done onshore and love it, likewise friends who hate it and are desperate to go offshore. Offshore can be repetitive but it’s got a pressure all of its own and managing a go-around on limits with your sole alternate 10 minutes away fogging out is genuinely hard work. Having done some very challenging flying in the military I thought offshore would be dull as f*** but it can be as challenging as anything else out there.

Salaries and t&cs are still generally pretty good too - personally I’d be happy to finish flying in the offshore world but we’ll see.

[Brutal]

Helimannuk, I think you'll find that our brothers and sisters working down south on the north sea do not get equal time rosters!

Simonk...well thank you for your personal opinion that must be fact as it's coming from you and everyone else's is "mostly bollocks"? I wouldn't be so rude if I were to disagree with your posts sir.
Just curious, have you done an onshore flying job outside of the military? I would be interested to know what you think? Personally, sitting in an uncomfortable immersion suit for 6/7 hours sweating like a pig everyday is not my idea of comfort?
I will have to correct your post though, you said offshore can be repetitive..there's no can about it...it IS really mind numbing repetitively boring. Do you fly only on sunny days then? Did I get the bit about the weather wrong too?
I think you will find the hard work comes from being so under aroused flying imc with no hands on at all for hours on end...not from managing a go around? ( As a training Captain I never seemed to find this hard work or challenging, even with a new co-jo, especially in
today's automated aircraft, one should be able to sit back and relax)?
But if this is how you personally find the N.Sea then that's your opinion....and I wouldn't say it was "mostly bollocks"?
B.

[Apate]

Bottom line is that pilots are nothing more than a commodity that the operator needs to factor in cost wise when it quotes for work. There are so many factors that dictate what that cost should be. Some of it is historic, however most is driven by basic economic theory i.e. Keynesian supply and demand.

So if you cost too much and the demand isn't there, you lose! Sorry ex-BHL Scatsta pilots!!!!

[SpindleBob]

Personally, I quite liked SimonK's post. Was nice to see some balance for a change

I've done onshore an offshore. Onshore was more fun generally, but also more stressful with weather closing in, having to deal with clients that were demanding, knowing there was more commercial pressure to get a job done, not knowing how many days I would be flying.

Offshore is actually quite fun, certainly challenging. OK, it is broadly 'repetitive' but you can still do two flights to the same place on the same day and find them very different. I like the two crew environment, and yes, if the money was the same for every helicopter pilot job, I would do HEMS, then Police, then offshore, then Onshore / VIP. But overall with the balance of everything, the money, the actual job, the comfort of knowing the engineering and training is excellent, the crews I work with - I'd still choose offshore.

[HeliMannUK]

Brutal, got a feeling you dont like working offshore. I don't mind it, Good roster, good pay and Good T&Cs, hard to find onshore, also grey areas and commercial pressures are less in the offshore environment which is a big plus for me.

Flying in a extremely hostile environment though does weigh on my mind.

[EESDL]

Toughest job out there is SPIR onshore Corporate, followed by onshore SPIR AIC. Period.
I laugh when I hear offshore pilots talk about their ‘captaincy’ decisions when you consider that almost any captaincy decision has been taken out of your control.
Every landing site is ‘licenced’, to a greater or lesser extent (HCA is a farce), you usually return to an ILS option and you have ‘current’ regulated weather reports for each HLS. HOMPs, FCOMs and SOPs dictate how and when you fly - and rightly so.
Fog is not just an NS phenomenon.
Captaincy has been reduced to deciding whether or not we tell ATC the real reason for our RTB in case it becomes headlines in tomorrow’s P&J!
I had great fun in the mil and in both corporate and aoc onshore but give me offshore any day ;-)

[HeliMannUK]

EESDL - Who wants to work hard for their money! Both on shore and offshore has their challenges and the worst of these challenges both, you wouldn't want to do on a regular basis.