Would you train for ATPL(H) in 2020/21?

[Krautwald]

I am happy & lucky with FW, but always curious of the other side of the fence:

If somebody had the nerve to go for helo flying this year or next, would you feel the urge to tie the man to a chair? Will there literally be no hiring whatsoever, or just fewer jobs and a weeding out of operators? I get that the industry has suicidal tendencies in terms of underbidding, but if the entire lot will go so far as to have zero new pilots getting any chance whatsoever, then that would effectively mean a generational cutoff of skilled labour wouldn’t it. Of course the bankruptcies hit exactly the operators who used to display at least some support of new pilots (Bristow...) but can you really sustain having no generational renewal at all, like some predict for the next decade or so?

[helicrazi]

The industry continues to perplex me

They want fresh faced p2s, keeping costs low relies on have a cheap FO in the other seat

However to comply with OGP they need 500 hours etc etc

It's a catch 22, normally they would become a FI and hour build, very few opportunities there. How does a fresh CPL IR gain the experience demanded?

Self fulfilling prophecy

Until operators commit to a proper ab initio course the industry is going to be in trouble in the mid to long term

[paco]

Getting them to commit to anything beyond the next lunchtime is near impossible....

[Krautwald]

Not even sure it would need ab initio...I did parts of ground school with two RW guys, who where ok paying for the license (not everybody is ever gonna be <30 hyper competitive selection material), but not with being basically unemployable upon graduation. I think integrating lowtimers would already do the trick. But with Babcock looking like the prevailing operator...they don’t do newbies, do they?

[SFIM]

I started in RW at the end of the last century initially as an AFI(H) and then moved up to CPL(H) and ATPL(H) and have got a lot of money out of RW over the years and still continue to do so now.
but for someone new now there is no way I could recommend RW as a career option, the costs are too high, the career options too low, and it simply makes no sense at all to take that much risk unless you have a small fortune to start with.
in cash terms an FI(H) now makes no more than 20 years ago and inflation has eaten at least 50% of the real value of that.
IMO RW is a hopeless industry, and I would 100% go FW if I was new (obviously when things are looking like picking up again there of course)

[gulliBell]

Remain happy & lucky with FW. Luck is likely to elude RW aspirants for many years to come.

[rudestuff]

I do a bit of both, there definitely seem to be a lot more rotary jobs popping up now than there are fixed wing.
The only way I'd get into it now would be head to the US and get a flight instructor job for a few years then come back with a load of hours (plus a set of fixed wing certificates) You can become a CFI with less than 50 hours so it's a hell of a lot more cost effective to start on that side of the pond.

[Krautwald]

Idk, last time I heard there was trouble regarding those visas you need in order to stay/work after cashing out for training.

[rudestuff]

Yeah you'd need a 2 year visa to make it work, they used to offer a J1 for 24 months but I'm a bit out of touch.

[ApolloHeli]

there definitely seem to be a lot more rotary jobs popping up now than there are fixed wing.

I'm curious to know where exactly these jobs are? I haven't seen or heard a thing

[Krautwald]

It’s not just the duration of the visa. In order to work as a CFI people needed the OPT (OTP?!) option that graduates could get right upon finishing whatever degree/license they obtained. And I think that this option is under fire from the Trump administration because it basically got a lot of foreigners a foot in the door to get employer-sponsored for a real work visa aka „stealing jobs“. I don’t know how much this affects flight schools though. You are surely allowed to come over and spend Dads remortgage on a US flight school business, but work...?

[helicrazi]

I'm curious to know where exactly these jobs are? I haven't seen or heard a thing

Theres a few being advertised at the moment, but all require TR as far as I can remember

S92, AW139 and AW189 jobs from memory, H175 positions coming up too

Onshore HEMS too

[SFIM]

that’s exactly what I am saying; for people with TR it’s ok, for newbies it’s almost hopeless right now unfortunately ☹️

Theres a few being advertised at the moment, but all require TR as far as I can remember

S92, AW139 and AW189 jobs from memory, H175 positions coming up too

Onshore HEMS too

[ApolloHeli]

for newbies it’s almost hopeless right now unfortunately ☹️

As someone without a medium/heavy type rating, I agree

[helicrazi]

As someone without a medium/heavy type rating, I agree

Yep unfortunately it's not great.

Theres an operator setting up in Norway, type ratings not compulsory

[Bravo73]

that’s exactly what I am saying; for people with TR it’s ok, for newbies it’s almost hopeless right now unfortunately ☹️

NHV were type rating P2s for Blackpool on AW169 recently.

[bringbackthe80s]

Would you train etc etc

No

[rudestuff]

The best time to train is when others aren't.

[Agile]

The best time to train is when others aren't.
More importantly best time to enter the job market is when jobs are starting to ramp up.
that guarantees you to be quickly pushed up the ladder to make space for new entrants behind you.

[HeliMannUK]

Right now, no dont bother, use the £100,000 elsewhere.

[Bravo73]

I'm curious to know where exactly these jobs are? I haven't seen or heard a thing

Babcock have just advertised for 6 H175 P2 slots in Aberdeen.

Advert says that H175 TR ‘is preferred’, but not compulsory. Also no minimum hours are stated in the ad.

Fill your boots.