PDA

View Full Version : Civil passenger aircraft with JATO


Owen Self
12th Aug 2020, 21:17
Thinking of a civil passenger flight out of Washington, DC in 1969 that had what appeared to be a JATO take off, something that surprised me for a rather small passenger plane that had a capacity of maybe forty passengers. I was telling someone about this flight experience and remarked that I had only flown once before on a JATO equipped plane and that was on a C-123 in South Vietnam.
Has anyone ever heard of a civil passenger plane equipped with JATO?

atakacs
12th Aug 2020, 21:32
I'm sure more knowledgeable people will respond but I know for fact it was considered for the 727 (https://www.avgeekery.com/boeing-actually-tried-rocket-assisted-takeoffs-on-the-727/)

treadigraph
12th Aug 2020, 22:42
Comet 1 was tested with Sprite rockets to assist with hot and high ops - not used in service though.

DaveReidUK
12th Aug 2020, 22:57
Trident 3. :O

atakacs
12th Aug 2020, 22:58
Was any of this used in passenger service?

West Coast
12th Aug 2020, 23:15
Metro liner turboprop

Soab
13th Aug 2020, 00:16
After flying the Tomahawk PA38 again after many years, It could certainly benefit from these.



https://youtu.be/2w0mKobISt4?t=3

tdracer
13th Aug 2020, 02:11
I'm sure more knowledgeable people will respond but I know for fact it was considered for the 727 (https://www.avgeekery.com/boeing-actually-tried-rocket-assisted-takeoffs-on-the-727/)
It's wasn't just considered - it was certified and in-service with Mexicana for several years. Basically needed so they could get out of Mexico City with a decent load on a hot day. I don't think anyone besides Mexicana ever got it, and it was eventually made obsolete by higher thrust variations of the JT8D engines.
They were only there for engine-out during takeoff, and I don't believe it was ever used in anger. But way back when I talked to someone who'd flight tested the 727 JATO option. He said it was pretty much a non-event, he couldn't even tell when they lit the JATO bottles - he rather doubted it would have been that much help in a real engine out scenario but it made the regulators happy.

When we were flight testing the 747-8, we needed to do some cold weather testing in the early autumn and went to Kangerlussuaq Airport in Greenland to get the required temps. First day we were there it wasn't cold enough for the testing so we basically got the day off to explore. Everywhere you looked there were used JATO bottles about - they used them for fences, table legs, even ashtrays. They use a lot of JATO bottles flying C130's off of the Greenland Icecap, and apparently it wasn't worth the trouble to reuse or recycle the used bottles so they just repurposed them for other uses.

Al E. Vator
13th Aug 2020, 03:33
http://www.taamuseum.org.au/Images/Pictures/NGLoadDC3.jpg http://www.taamuseum.org.au/Images/Pictures/NGDC3%20Jato_to.JPG
Trans Australia Airlines TAA trialled JATO on DC3 aircraft in the hot and high operating conditions of Papua New Guinea in the 1960's.
Not entirely sure as to the accuracy of this but rumour has it that gathered dignitaries were present to witness the inaugural JATO takeoff of a fully loaded PNG DC3.
However the system failed to ignite and the lumbering aircraft disappeared off the end of the runway and down a valley only to emerge miles away at runway height, to much official clearing of throats and embarrassment.
Don't think it was ever used operationally much after that.

Photos courtesy TAA museum

Haraka
13th Aug 2020, 06:25
I recall seeing a shot of an Ethiopian Airlines Convair Liner taking off with JATO in the 60's.
P,S, Ethiopian was apparently the first civil airline to use JATO on its 240s as a precaution on "Hot and High" operations in Africa ( Putnam GD Book)

Less Hair
13th Aug 2020, 07:49
Would they drop the empty bottles next to the takeoff airport?
JATO /ATO is super dangerous. C-130s get parked on the "hot" ramp whenever rigged for it. Can't imagine to take those risks in the civilian world anymore. And hot bottles get rare and valuable as they are not made anymore. Where would airlines store them?
Does anybody anywhere teach commercial pilots how to do it?

Fris B. Fairing
13th Aug 2020, 08:53
About 40 years ago when I was in reservations, the local rep for Varig was telling us that their 707s could operate out of Easter Island because they had, in his words, "boosters". I never figured out what he was talking about.

Less Hair
13th Aug 2020, 08:56
Water injection.

Fareastdriver
13th Aug 2020, 09:11
Water injection.

They played about with the Valiant BK1 with JATO. One of the problems was where to drop the spent rockets before continuing. This would use up all the fuel that you had saved.
It was overcome with the water meth injected Avon 205A which produced 10% extra (10,000lbs/11,000lbs) for one minute.

1410 lbs of water meth lasted exactly one minute; precisely the time that the mainwheels left the ground at Embakasi.

Compton3fox
13th Aug 2020, 09:12
Trident 3. :O
The only 5 engined jet airliner....

ResBunny
13th Aug 2020, 10:02
Beech 18. Some were offered with a JATO option giving a few seconds of emergency power in the event of an engine failure during takeoff.

hoss183
13th Aug 2020, 10:38
There were 727's around that era operated or tested with JATO
Rumour is that Mexicana had it on 727-200s
and this MeType Certification Data 727-200 Series (http://www.boeing-727.com/Data/type%20cert/typecert200ser.html)

Peter Fanelli
13th Aug 2020, 10:43
https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/9l3261/one_of_the_12_mexicana_airlines_727200_taking_off/

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/61689/did-the-dc-9-ever-use-rato-in-revenue-service (https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/9l3261/one_of_the_12_mexicana_airlines_727200_taking_off/)

TURIN
13th Aug 2020, 10:50
Pedant mode on.

*R.A.T.O.

Pedant mode off.

Less Hair
13th Aug 2020, 10:51
ATO has been used as well. (USAF)

bafanguy
13th Aug 2020, 13:15
Beech 18. Some were offered with a JATO option giving a few seconds of emergency power in the event of an engine failure during takeoff.

Emergency use indeed. Flew DC3s with JATO bottles. Fortunately, never saw one used "in anger". I think they had a use-by expiration date.

Cubs2jets
13th Aug 2020, 13:42
Thinking of a civil passenger flight out of Washington, DC in 1969 that had what appeared to be a JATO take off, something that surprised me for a rather small passenger plane that had a capacity of maybe forty passengers.
Has anyone ever heard of a civil passenger plane equipped with JATO?

During that time frame there would have been Convair 240/340/440 and Martin 202/404 operating out of Washington DC. Neither manufacturer mentions the inclusion of RATO in the specifications. There may well have been smaller Beechcraft 18 and derivatives operating as "commuter" airline equipment. Some of these came factory equipped with RATO for critical engine out situations. Spent about 30 min searching for B-18 RATO installation pics with no luck.

As for "regular" use of RATO in civil (esp airline) service, I am quite skeptical due to expense and danger.

C2j

sandringham1
13th Aug 2020, 14:07
You could buy a Trislander with with 350 lb rocket. Seem to remember it was for a customer operating hot and high to get you out of trouble following an engine failure. Probably really needed a fourth engine but then it wouldn't be a Trislander.

Compass Call
13th Aug 2020, 14:14
TURIN
I have to agree with you.
Why is it called JATO when no jets are involved, just rockets?
RATO - in my opinion - is the correct term!

Spooky 2
13th Aug 2020, 15:52
Mexicana had a Boeing OEM JATO system on their 727-200ADV. As I recall it was armed prior to TO by the FE with a key that was inserted into a slot of the FE panel.

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/9l3261/one_of_the_12_mexicana_airlines_727200_taking_off/

bafanguy
13th Aug 2020, 16:43
Overseas National Airways, a US supplemental, had JATO on its DC9-30s. Don't bet money on my recollection of the numbers but I think it got a 5K increase in max T/O weight.

DaveReidUK
13th Aug 2020, 17:30
The only 5 engined jet airliner....

Strange, I only remember counting 4.

treadigraph
13th Aug 2020, 17:50
APU as well?

Fareastdriver
13th Aug 2020, 18:43
What we are talking about is this!

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/896x705/b47_625f5a0cca75410cabcf6f5be14be874d30f15a2.jpg

They were the days of real flying.

Airbubba
13th Aug 2020, 18:48
Metro liner turboprop

Yep, the Swearingen Metroliner had a JATO option in the early days. The claim was that it would give you enough time to raise the gear with an engine failure on takeoff.

Spooky 2
13th Aug 2020, 19:15
I think the Queen Air model 65 had JATO as well.

Less Hair
13th Aug 2020, 19:18
How did this work in real life? You had a rocket like a bomb in the hangar all the time? Was it ready to be fired anytime or secured somehow? Solid fuel rockets burn out whenever they are activated. And do you drop them after use? Glowing hot parts? This sounds more like a project, did anybody ever actually use it, get a demo or similar?
I only know the military JATO/ATO and they treat it with ultimate respect because it is so dangerous.

DaveReidUK
13th Aug 2020, 19:37
APU as well?

Well if you count the APU as an engine, you can hardly call the Trident 3 "the only 5-engined airliner" - that description would also apply to most of the 4-holers built in the last 50-odd years !

Jhieminga
13th Aug 2020, 20:21
How about ‘the only five-engined trijet’?

Spooky 2
13th Aug 2020, 21:21
How did this work in real life? You had a rocket like a bomb in the hangar all the time? Was it ready to be fired anytime or secured somehow? Solid fuel rockets burn out whenever they are activated. And do you drop them after use? Glowing hot parts? This sounds more like a project, did anybody ever actually use it, get a demo or similar?
I only know the military JATO/ATO and they treat it with ultimate respect because it is so dangerous.

Nothing dropped off the airframe after firing as it remained place until it was in a place where it could be replaced.

treadigraph
13th Aug 2020, 21:37
Well if you count the APU as an engine, you can hardly call the Trident 3 "the only 5-engined airliner" - that description would also apply to most of the 4-holers built in the last 50-odd years !

I never reall considered the Trident 3 as anything other than three engined! :p


I think the Queen Air model 65 had JATO as well.

Never heard that one, as a test airframe?

FL235
13th Aug 2020, 22:10
A 600. Lb. Thrust bottle was required for DC3 ops at Wau, as an engine failure on T/O was likely to be dire. As far as I know never used in anger, but were fired off when timexpired. Carried on many ? DC3s.

Supposed to replace failed engine for 12 sec , I think

TURIN
13th Aug 2020, 23:25
Some photos and video here of the 727 RATO .

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/74628/rato-used-to-get-civilian-aircraft-out-of-airports-with-inadequate-runway-length

JanetFlight
14th Aug 2020, 00:30
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/625x391/12347854_985863058118971_8778093422529678643_n_327682a668b7c f0468119ba118fccf2d42eb8885.jpg
During the 60's Puerto Rico CARIBAIR Convairs used the JATO help to get rid of mountains in case of an EFATO after T/O from St Thomas and neighborhoods...nice pic by W. Sierra.

West Coast
14th Aug 2020, 00:42
Can’t have a thread about JATO/RATO bottles without this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHUsGFGhfmk

megan
14th Aug 2020, 03:20
You had a rocket like a bomb in the hangar all the timeIt wasn't without its dangers. The initial audio is not the best, after 60 or so seconds it becomes OK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7b3Hz5KwZ8

Both the Sea Fury and Firefly were equipped to use JATO from the carriers.

DaveReidUK
14th Aug 2020, 07:12
I never really considered the Trident 3 as anything other than three engined!

Ironically, "Little Willie" - as the RB162 boost engine on the T3 was affectionately(?) nicknamed by flight crew - probably comes as close as you can get to fitting the thread title: a jet engine (not a rocket), used routinely to assist take-off performance in a civilian airliner. :O

treadigraph
14th Aug 2020, 08:04
Presume the turbojets (correct description?) attached to the B-36 and C-82 were only used for take off? Trying to recall if any other types were so fitted.

Spooky, going back to the Queen Air, you aren't thinking of the augmentor exhausts are you? Bloody noisy things, sound great though. Used to occasionally see German AF Do-28Ds heading home across South London at 10000' or so from (I think) Brawdy - you would first hear them when they were still miles away and continue to hear them when they were miles past - and they were not the fastest dog in the pack by any stretch of the imagination!

DaveReidUK
14th Aug 2020, 08:54
Presume the turbojets (correct description?) attached to the B-36 and C-82 were only used for take off? Trying to recall if any other types were so fitted.

The Shackleton MR.3 had two Vipers and the KC-97 a couple of J47s.

capngrog
14th Aug 2020, 10:53
Back in the 1970s, I spent a lot of time at the Eastern Airlines base in Miami, Florida. One day I noticed a B-727 in one of their maintenance hangars that had unusual metal disc-looking "patches" on the fuselage fairing just aft of the wing trailing edge. These "discs" looked like those on C-130s I had seen while in the USAF, and, curious, I asked one of the mechanics what they were. He stated that they were frangible coverings of the RATO/JATO bottle exhaust nozzles. He further stated that Eastern had 2 or 3 B-727s with RATO/JATO capability that were used on South American or Central American routes which featured high altitude airports. He couldn't tell me whether or not they had ever been used.

Cheers,
Grog

Fareastdriver
14th Aug 2020, 11:24
Presume the turbojets (correct description?) attached to the B-36 and C-82 were only used for take off?

From what I have read the turbojets were installed so that the B36 would maintain combat speed over the target.

dixi188
14th Aug 2020, 11:38
JATO or RATO?
What comes out of the nozzle is a Jet of Gas, wether it's a Jet Turbine engine or a Rocket engine.

Old Boeing Driver
14th Aug 2020, 12:50
Some of the Lockheed Lodestars had RATO

Self loading bear
14th Aug 2020, 13:09
If we digress further from the airliners:

P2V Neptune
versions with FixedUnder the wing pylon mounted Jet Assisted Take Off
but also (earlier) versions with Rocket ATO mounted against the aft fuselage.

sandiego89
14th Aug 2020, 13:17
TURIN
I have to agree with you.
Why is it called JATO when no jets are involved, just rockets?
RATO - in my opinion - is the correct term!

Of course you and Turin are "technically" correct that we are generally referring to RATO, but it seems JATO has become the popular misnomer. Sounds neater too.

Tin-foil is usually aluminum Foil, or aluminium for our UK or "English" friends...:)
"Lead" pencils are graphite
"Chalk" is gypsum
"Holland" is not the Netherlands
not all facial tissues are "Klennex"
etc. etc.

Fight it, ignore it, or embrace it.

Self loading bear
14th Aug 2020, 15:13
.....

Fight it, ignore it, or embrace it.

Or Post-It!!

Spooky 2
14th Aug 2020, 15:38
Presume the turbojets (correct description?) attached to the B-36 and C-82 were only used for take off? Trying to recall if any other types were so fitted.

Spooky, going back to the Queen Air, you aren't thinking of the augmentor exhausts are you? Bloody noisy things, sound great though. Used to occasionally see German AF Do-28Ds heading home across South London at 10000' or so from (I think) Brawdy - you would first hear them when they were still miles away and continue to hear them when they were miles past - and they were not the fastest dog in the pack by any stretch of the imagination!

Okay now you made me look for this subject a little harder:) From an old AOPA article on the Twin Bonanza and Queen Air. Scroll down, close to the end. I recall this as I was working at the Van Nuys airport as a line boy around 1961 and one of our hangar customers had a Model 65. I believe it had this installation as would have been befitting the owner, a John Von Nuemann, local Ferrari distributor and owner of Competition Motors. He later bought at MS760 from Beach as they were going to distribute that ac in the US. This link talks to the D50 but since the D50 and Model 65 Queen Air were almost identical in many respects I will assume the both aircraft had this option.

Wished I could find a picture but as I recall the installation sat on top of the engine cowl and was streamlined in such a way that it was barely noticeable.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/1999/september/pilot/beech-twin-bonanza

treadigraph
14th Aug 2020, 17:17
One lives and learns! Somewhere I've got the Putnam Beechcraft book - see if I can locate it - it's not with my others as it is a different size and a lot of books are in boxes at present,

Van Nuys must have been a superb place to be in the 60s, seems to be all biz jets now... The couple of times I was in LA either side of 2000 I didn't get there or to Burbank.

tdracer
14th Aug 2020, 18:41
From what I have read the turbojets were installed so that the B36 would maintain combat speed over the target.

That is correct - the turbojets gave them better dash speed when in dangerous territory. They were often used for takeoff as well, but really didn't help that much (pure jets have lousy low speed performance).

Spooky 2
15th Aug 2020, 19:44
One lives and learns! Somewhere I've got the Putnam Beechcraft book - see if I can locate it - it's not with my others as it is a different size and a lot of books are in boxes at present,

Van Nuys must have been a superb place to be in the 60s, seems to be all biz jets now... The couple of times I was in LA either side of 2000 I didn't get there or to Burbank.

VNY was a hoot. Of course there were no business jets speak of in the early 60's other than the previously mentioned MS760, but there were On Mark A26's, along with the original Guppy that On Mark was building. Lockheed has a IRAN facility for the U2 so you seen one or two of them come and go every month. There was also a bar/resturant (SkyTrails), that was the social scene for many legendary aviators of that time period. Sorry for the thread drift.....:)

eastern wiseguy
16th Aug 2020, 08:09
https://youtu.be/ESOi5_j1-Kk

Not quite the same thing, but damned impressive at OSH a few years back

Buster11
16th Aug 2020, 09:43
Was the rack of what looked like 30 RATO bottles on a B-47 jettisoned after take-off? Presumably there was an area over which this was always done. Any mishaps known?

treadigraph
16th Aug 2020, 14:07
Sorry for the thread drift.....:)

No need to be, this section of the forum thrives on thread drift. I tend to feel airports and aircraft have become rather boring these days and were far more interesting 40+ years ago... ;)

Spooky 2
16th Aug 2020, 17:25
No need to be, this section of the forum thrives on thread drift. I tend to feel airports and aircraft have become rather boring these days and were far more interesting 40+ years ago... ;)


You have that right. When my mind drifts off towards avaition I seldom think about anything newer that the 707/727 albeit, I flew most of the big jets, minus the Grand Lady 747.
Did get to fly the DC4, DC6B, DC7C along with the 1049H and C97. Even got a quick shot at the Comet 4C. At the time I couldn't;t wait t get a bid on the 720/707. I should have just relaxed and taken my time while absorbing all the sounds and smells of the big pistons:)

Airbubba
16th Aug 2020, 18:57
Can’t have a thread about JATO/RATO bottles without this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHUsGFGhfmk

Here's the infamous 1995 Darwin Award internet version. Every year or two one of your friends discovers the 'forward' button and sends it to you.

The Arizona Highway Patrol were mystified when they came upon a pile of smoldering wreckage embedded in the side of a cliff rising above the road at the apex of a curve. The metal debris resembled the site of an airplane crash, but it turned out to be the vaporized remains of an automobile. The make of the vehicle was unidentifiable at the scene. The folks in the lab finally figured out what it was, and pieced together the events that led up to its demise.

It seems that a former Air Force sergeant had somehow got hold of a JATO (Jet Assisted Take-Off) unit. JATO units are solid fuel rockets used to give heavy military transport airplanes an extra push for take-off from short airfields.

Dried desert lakebeds are the location of choice for breaking the world ground vehicle speed record. The sergeant took the JATO unit into the Arizona desert and found a long, straight stretch of road. He attached the JATO unit to his car, jumped in, accelerated to a high speed, and fired off the rocket. The facts, as best as could be determined, are as follows:

The operator was driving a 1967 Chevy Impala. He ignited the JATO unit approximately 3.9 miles from the crash site. This was established by the location of a prominently scorched and melted strip of asphalt. The vehicle quickly reached a speed of between 250 and 300 mph and continued at that speed, under full power, for an additional 20-25 seconds. The soon-to-be pilot experienced G-forces usually reserved for dog-fighting F-14 jocks under full afterburners.

The Chevy remained on the straight highway for approximately 2.6 miles (15-20 seconds) before the driver applied the brakes, completely melting them, blowing the tires, and leaving thick rubber marks on the road surface. The vehicle then became airborne for an additional 1.3 miles, impacted the cliff face at a height of 125 feet, and left a blackened crater 3 feet deep in the rock.

Most of the driver’s remains were not recovered; however, small fragments of bone, teeth, and hair were extracted from the crater, and fingernail and bone shards were removed from a piece of debris believed to be a portion of the steering wheel.


One of many claimed precursors to the urban legend.

This reminds me of a colleague's reminiscence, which may be the basis of the JATO story. He was a military pilot In the 50's in Guam, when two men strapped not one but two JATO engines to the back of a military Jeep. They took it to Guam's 3-mile airstrip and ignited the engines, which hurled them 200 yards down the runway before the Jeep, now travelling at more than 300 mph, disintegrated. The men were shredded to bits, and the engines broke free from the remains of the jeep and darted wildly around the base before burning out. A film of this incident exists, in a military archive or maybe in a shoebox in someone's attic.

Jhieminga
17th Aug 2020, 07:59
Snopes debunked the story in 2002: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/carmageddon/

neilki
17th Aug 2020, 14:51
The Metroliner 1 had a JATO motor in the tail.
the II i flew had the switchgear installed. As a 19 seat regional airliner this could be the plane the OP was looking for..

Cubs2jets
17th Aug 2020, 15:58
First Metroliners not delivered until 1972, several years after the OP's 1969 time frame.

C2j

Owen Self
18th Aug 2020, 21:13
Thanks. The Metroliner from what I could find did have a jet assist option at one time. In said 1969 the jet assist on it may have been a short lived thing for passenger air service on this aircraft. I distinctly recall a JATO type sensation with a high noise level like that of a jet engine that lasted around ten seconds during take off. As mentioned, had a previous JATO flight on a C-123 in South Vietnam in 1967.

cavortingcheetah
19th Aug 2020, 17:54
A forty seat aircraft in 1969 that appeared to have JATO?
I suppose that the days of water methanol are long forgotten?

tonytales
25th Aug 2020, 05:26
I was Director of Contract Maintenance Service at Eastern Air Lines in Miami in mid-1980's. One of our customers was Mexicana with their B727-200's. A few of their earlier ones had been fitted with RATO as mentioned before. Obvioudsly a necessity with -7 JT8D engines. Eastern had some early old -200 on the Air Shuttle and they were known as "Lead Sleds" on hot days even from the near sea level airports the Air Shuttle served.
We did "C" Checks" on those Mexicana aircraft but fortunately the RATO was long gone. One peculiarity of those aircraft was the ADF aerials which were usually in the bottom aft fairing of the wing root had to be remounted on top of the fuselage. Looked like a massive repair patch up there.
Saw a comment before that the writer thought some Eastern aircraft had been fitted with RATO. If so, I never heard of it.
Later, the 17R version of the JT8D were used on the high altitude airports in South America making RATO unnecessary.
My CMS operattion also did "C" Checks" on the RATO equipped DC-9 freighters (was it ONA?). They were under contract to the Navy for QICK-TRAN and required a extra boost in the event of an engine failure on T/O. The RATO was installed and active on the aircraft. These were scary for my techies were not used to having solid fuel rockets on the aircraft. I was told static electricity was sufficient to ignite them. Fortunately no servicing of them was needed. Did some extra safety training as the thought of those going off in my hangar was not something I wanted to imagine.

Less Hair
25th Aug 2020, 06:51
Not civil but it shows many uses of JATO. However it ended in tears.

https://youtu.be/fSFjhWw4DNo

bafanguy
25th Aug 2020, 10:07
I was Director of Contract Maintenance Service at Eastern Air Lines in Miami in mid-1980's.
My CMS operattion also did "C" Checks" on the RATO equipped DC-9 freighters (was it ONA?).

Yes, ONA DC9s had it installed. I remember seeing them on ramps now and then.

rog747
25th Aug 2020, 12:21
Dan Air bought one or two of the Mexicana ex Jato fitted 727-200's - notable due to the hump along the top of the cabin.

Spooky 2
25th Aug 2020, 13:49
Dan Air bought one or two of the Mexicana ex Jato fitted 727-200's - notable due to the hump along the top of the cabin.


https://www.avgeekery.com/boeing-actually-tried-rocket-assisted-takeoffs-on-the-727/

Looks to be on the bottom, not the top. Perhaps you are speaking of the flush mounted ADF antennas having been relocated to the top?

rog747
25th Aug 2020, 14:16
https://www.avgeekery.com/boeing-actually-tried-rocket-assisted-takeoffs-on-the-727/

Looks to be on the bottom, not the top. Perhaps you are speaking of the flush mounted ADF antennas having been relocated to the top?

Er, that is what I said - hump on the top..... IE: the relocation of the antennas lol
Don't think Dan Air wanted JATO rockets ....well maybe out of Skiathos

washoutt
26th Aug 2020, 09:22
Janetflight, post 39, I seem to remember seeing a picture of an Ethipian Airlines Convair 340 (in that colourful paint scheme they had in those days) using Jato's for take of. I searched my little library for that picture, but could not find anything. Can anybody remember that, or am I just getting old?,

Haraka
26th Aug 2020, 13:32
Janetflight, post 39, I seem to remember seeing a picture of an Ethipian Airlines Convair 340 (in that colourful paint scheme they had in those days) using Jato's for take of. I searched my little library for that picture, but could not find anything. Can anybody remember that, or am I just getting old?,
See my Post 10 on this Thread :) There is a prettty colour picture of one , mentioning the JATO in John Taylor's 1964 " Aircraft Annual" but , like yourself , I have seen the action shot of one blasting off, and it's on my shelves......somewhere....

washoutt
27th Aug 2020, 08:33
You're right, forgot about your earlier remark. With two references at least I'm not getting old, so how to retrieve this Ethipian picture?

Cubs2jets
8th Sep 2020, 01:14
Finally found a picture of a Beechcraft H-18 with accommodations for JATO. Not the best picture, but you can see at the rear of the nacelle.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/841x443/s_l1600_1__b6227569cb8fbb03264acf78a0ac10738a44155c.jpg
C2j

Warmtoast
8th Sep 2020, 10:31
Bit of Thread Drift, but saw my first Rocket Assisted take of at annual Biggin Hill BOB display in 1954 I think it was.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/450x278/image_086c106c010ae1f80177b90550dfa156961c0d69.png
Quiet impressive and noisy too! Aircraft was Manston based ISTR.

Spooky 2
8th Sep 2020, 18:24
Finally found a picture of a Beechcraft H-18 with accommodations for JATO. Not the best picture, but you can see at the rear of the nacelle.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/841x443/s_l1600_1__b6227569cb8fbb03264acf78a0ac10738a44155c.jpg
C2j

Great find and as one might imagine very similar to the Queen Air installation referenced at the beginning of this thread. Thanks again!

Tim Zukas
13th Sep 2020, 00:57
Airlift for April 1963 had an article on airliner JATO. It said American, Ansett-ANA, Braniff, Caribair, Ethiopian, Pan Am, Panagra, TACA and Trans-Australia had tried it, tho maybe Pan Am never had it on scheduled flights. "there have been eight actual emergency Jato firings, three in scheduled airline service..."

It says AA used it on DC-4 freighters out of Mexico City in 1947; Braniff and Panagra used it at La Paz. Ansett-ANA and Trans-Australia added it to their DC-3s in 1961.

The original units were only allowed 100 hours on the aircraft; in 1955 CAA approved 500 hours or a year, whichever came first. "During the past year, storage life has been upped to four years and flight time 750 hours or 18 months."