Moving to HKG

[Green58]

I'm currently a CA at a U.S. regional with 3000 TT, 700 Turbine PIC. I lived in Hong Kong when I was in high school and always liked the place. I still hold my HK Permanent Residency and wondering if there's any airline doing actual hiring right now in the region. With everything that's happening here, I'd like to leave my regional job and move to Asia. I saw Air Hong Kong is accepting applications but I heard they're not actually hiring. Obviously I'd love to work for Cathay but I'm not sure if they're hiring since they aren't doing too great with the low travel demand worldwide.

I appreciate any suggestions, ideas, comments, guidance, etc. Anything. I open to working in other countries too, so I really do appreciate any suggestions you have.

Thank you!

[0ztranaut]

Unless you’re furloughed etc I’d try and wait for things to settle down in aviation and get yourself (if yours isn’t) into one of the WO regionals with flow to a major. Playing the long game the QOL and compensation in the US majors/LCC’s blows CX and the HK carriers out the water.

[Cpt. Underpants]

Green...Cathay is on the cusp of furloughing hundreds of current aircrew, possibly as many as 1000. Cathay management has shredded all existing industrial agreements, a very bad sign, and bases (domiciled aircrew) are already on severely reduced salaries, with doubts that bases will continue to remain a part of the organization. There’s a current “VR” (voluntary retirement) thread with discussions on the merits/demerits of the offer and who’s likely to take it. Cathay Dragon is at a virtual standstill and Hong Kong Express is as well. Hong Kong Airlines has hundreds of idle crew (I’m unsure if they’ve actually laid off or not) and have had serious financial *problems” for years. There are hundreds of aircraft parked, mothballed, at Chek Lap Kok. New security legislation has spooked many multinationals into relocating their staff and adverse international reporting on the laws recently enacted has all but killed tourism. Mandatory, enforced isolation is required for all arrivals and will remain until Covid-19 has run it’s course. Forecasts are that aviation worldwide won’t return to pre 2020 levels for 4 years, possibly longer. Executive aviation in Hong Kong is on life support.

if you relocated to Hong Kong you will absolutely, positively, be unemployed as a pilot for years, possibly forever.

[Slasher1]

Gotta be a wind up.

Or someone with sub zero SA.

[fly1981]

I'm currently a CA at a U.S. regional with 3000 TT, 700 Turbine PIC. I lived in Hong Kong when I was in high school and always liked the place. I still hold my HK Permanent Residency and wondering if there's any airline doing actual hiring right now in the region. With everything that's happening here, I'd like to leave my regional job and move to Asia. I saw Air Hong Kong is accepting applications but I heard they're not actually hiring. Obviously I'd love to work for Cathay but I'm not sure if they're hiring since they aren't doing too great with the low travel demand worldwide.

I appreciate any suggestions, ideas, comments, guidance, etc. Anything. I open to working in other countries too, so I really do appreciate any suggestions you have.

Thank you!

at the moment air Hong Kong is probably your only option. They have courses starting in a couple of weeks, so I doubt they will interview again before the end of the year, but you never know...perhaps worth a try.

[cxorcist]

I'm currently a CA at a U.S. regional with 3000 TT, 700 Turbine PIC. I lived in Hong Kong when I was in high school and always liked the place. I still hold my HK Permanent Residency and wondering if there's any airline doing actual hiring right now in the region. With everything that's happening here, I'd like to leave my regional job and move to Asia. I saw Air Hong Kong is accepting applications but I heard they're not actually hiring. Obviously I'd love to work for Cathay but I'm not sure if they're hiring since they aren't doing too great with the low travel demand worldwide.

I appreciate any suggestions, ideas, comments, guidance, etc. Anything. I open to working in other countries too, so I really do appreciate any suggestions you have.

Thank you!
Yes, move into the ChiCom Dragon’s lair with the new fire breathing national security law. No flying except cargo in HK, no problem. City locked down and economy tanking, perfect. You must be a genius. Perfect for CX! That said, 3000 hours makes you far too qualified. CX prefers 100 hour cadet wonders.

[Memorylapse]

Yes, move into the ChiCom Dragon’s lair with the new fire breathing national security law. No flying except cargo in HK, no problem. City locked down and economy tanking, perfect. You must be a genius. Perfect for CX! That said, 3000 hours makes you far too qualified. CX prefers 100 hour cadet wonders.

Sharing a flightdeck and a 48 layover with you must be such a pleasure! 60 years old, divorced multiple times? And nothing better than to spew negativity and BS as far as you go? Keep on going champ.

[YellowFever777]

Sharing a flightdeck and a 48 layover with you must be such a pleasure! 60 years old, divorced multiple times? And nothing better than to spew negativity and BS as far as you go? Keep on going champ.

I suspect his hatred towards crew who have the audicity to be junior to him emanates from said junior crew members making all manner of excuses not to have a beer with him down route 😉

[fly1981]

Sharing a flightdeck and a 48 layover with you must be such a pleasure! 60 years old, divorced multiple times? And nothing better than to spew negativity and BS as far as you go? Keep on going champ.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

[Kitsune]

Definitely a +1 for fly1981

[TimeToWhine]

Perfect for CX! That said, 3000 hours makes you far too qualified. CX prefers 100 hour cadet wonders.

You must be an absolute joy to fly with. The stream in which a lot of pilots now join airlines changed a long time ago to suit the reflected environment, deal with it rather than winge about it. It’s like after the war, where some pilots who had flown in the war belittled those that didn’t, even though there was no such opportunity for them. Much like today for a lot of young pilots, they simply don’t have the same opportunities to earn their initial wings slogging years in GA or strapped to a military jet. Manufacturers design modern aircraft and procedures with this in mind. They aren’t spaceships. I don’t see crashed planes all stacked up at CLK as a result of the cadet pilot. Simply put, get with the times.

You are most likely the kind of guy who recons your crew worship and admire you, when in reality they just put up with you sh1t to get the job done then talk about what a w@nker you really are as soon as you leave the cockpit inflight or during layovers when they all go out for beers without you while you’re stuck in your room spending your time being a big man on pprune.

If you don’t like your company, your colleagues, or the direction your company has been going in then why are you still here. Do everyone a solid and take the VR. Be sure to tell them you don’t want any retirement travel benifits either, as you won’t be able to fathom the thought of being a passenger on a CX flight to BKK to pick up your next Thai ladyboy wife knowing that the crew upfront might have all started out as cadets.

[B2N2]

Green,
Apply with Atlas or Fedex.
The only way to get to HKG.

[Memorylapse]

You must be an absolute joy to fly with. The stream in which a lot of pilots now join airlines changed a long time ago to suit the reflected environment, deal with it rather than winge about it. It’s like after the war, where some pilots who had flown in the war belittled those that didn’t, even though there was no such opportunity for them. Much like today for a lot of young pilots, they simply don’t have the same opportunities to earn their initial wings slogging years in GA or strapped to a military jet. Manufacturers design modern aircraft and procedures with this in mind. They aren’t spaceships. I don’t see crashed planes all stacked up at CLK as a result of the cadet pilot. Simply put, get with the times.

You are most likely the kind of guy who recons your crew worship and admire you, when in reality they just put up with you sh1t to get the job done then talk about what a w@nker you really are as soon as you leave the cockpit inflight or during layovers when they all go out for beers without you while you’re stuck in your room spending your time being a big man on pprune.

If you don’t like your company, your colleagues, or the direction your company has been going in then why are you still here. Do everyone a solid and take the VR. Be sure to tell them you don’t want any retirement travel benifits either, as you won’t be able to fathom the thought of being a passenger on a CX flight to BKK to pick up your next Thai ladyboy wife knowing that the crew upfront might have all started out as cadets.

Can I buy you a beer?

[fly1981]

You must be an absolute joy to fly with. The stream in which a lot of pilots now join airlines changed a long time ago to suit the reflected environment, deal with it rather than winge about it. It’s like after the war, where some pilots who had flown in the war belittled those that didn’t, even though there was no such opportunity for them. Much like today for a lot of young pilots, they simply don’t have the same opportunities to earn their initial wings slogging years in GA or strapped to a military jet. Manufacturers design modern aircraft and procedures with this in mind. They aren’t spaceships. I don’t see crashed planes all stacked up at CLK as a result of the cadet pilot. Simply put, get with the times.

You are most likely the kind of guy who recons your crew worship and admire you, when in reality they just put up with you sh1t to get the job done then talk about what a w@nker you really are as soon as you leave the cockpit inflight or during layovers when they all go out for beers without you while you’re stuck in your room spending your time being a big man on pprune.

If you don’t like your company, your colleagues, or the direction your company has been going in then why are you still here. Do everyone a solid and take the VR. Be sure to tell them you don’t want any retirement travel benifits either, as you won’t be able to fathom the thought of being a passenger on a CX flight to BKK to pick up your next Thai ladyboy wife knowing that the crew upfront might have all started out as cadets.

get that man a bells!

[YellowFever777]

You must be an absolute joy to fly with. The stream in which a lot of pilots now join airlines changed a long time ago to suit the reflected environment, deal with it rather than winge about it. It’s like after the war, where some pilots who had flown in the war belittled those that didn’t, even though there was no such opportunity for them. Much like today for a lot of young pilots, they simply don’t have the same opportunities to earn their initial wings slogging years in GA or strapped to a military jet. Manufacturers design modern aircraft and procedures with this in mind. They aren’t spaceships. I don’t see crashed planes all stacked up at CLK as a result of the cadet pilot. Simply put, get with the times.

You are most likely the kind of guy who recons your crew worship and admire you, when in reality they just put up with you sh1t to get the job done then talk about what a w@nker you really are as soon as you leave the cockpit inflight or during layovers when they all go out for beers without you while you’re stuck in your room spending your time being a big man on pprune.

If you don’t like your company, your colleagues, or the direction your company has been going in then why are you still here. Do everyone a solid and take the VR. Be sure to tell them you don’t want any retirement travel benifits either, as you won’t be able to fathom the thought of being a passenger on a CX flight to BKK to pick up your next Thai ladyboy wife knowing that the crew upfront might have all started out as cadets.

Best post on pprune ever, ladyboy wife cracked me up LOL

[Dakotablue]

On point TimeToWhine! :D

[cxorcist]

Hahaha, just like Twitter! Just because you all agree, doesn’t make you right. It simply makes you part of a mob. Nothing more than a school of fish waiting to be consumed. I’m actually embarrassed for you, not to mention, of you.

Move to HK... The water is warm here. You’ll love it. Plenty of other dreamers to have a beer with on those 48 hour (or much longer) layovers (in DB, if you can afford it).

PS... Not 60 (or even 50 yet), not divorced, nice try though. Until the WuFlu, never had a hard time finding anyone to drink a beer with. Lately, it’s a bit of a challenge.

[controlledrest]

You must be an absolute joy to fly with. The stream in which a lot of pilots now join airlines changed a long time ago to suit the reflected environment, deal with it rather than winge about it. It’s like after the war, where some pilots who had flown in the war belittled those that didn’t, even though there was no such opportunity for them. Much like today for a lot of young pilots, they simply don’t have the same opportunities to earn their initial wings slogging years in GA or strapped to a military jet. Manufacturers design modern aircraft and procedures with this in mind. They aren’t spaceships. I don’t see crashed planes all stacked up at CLK as a result of the cadet pilot. Simply put, get with the times.

You are most likely the kind of guy who recons your crew worship and admire you, when in reality they just put up with you sh1t to get the job done then talk about what a w@nker you really are as soon as you leave the cockpit inflight or during layovers when they all go out for beers without you while you’re stuck in your room spending your time being a big man on pprune.

If you don’t like your company, your colleagues, or the direction your company has been going in then why are you still here. Do everyone a solid and take the VR. Be sure to tell them you don’t want any retirement travel benifits either, as you won’t be able to fathom the thought of being a passenger on a CX flight to BKK to pick up your next Thai ladyboy wife knowing that the crew upfront might have all started out as cadets.

Twice when I was a FO if it wasn't for me the cadet Capt I was flying with would most likely have pranged the jet. We don't have cadets because there is a shortage of pilots, we have them to keep the HKG Government on our side.

POS18 is such a crap contract it only attracts low hour licence holders (not airline pilots, just licence holders who can legally occupy a seat) or those who are desperate - largely the South Africans.

The People Department took over aircrew recruitment from FOPs because FOPs wasn't letting enough licence holders in. DFO Hall instructed the company doctors not to reject applicants because they were weirdos, but just to stick to the CAD form. People Department pushed for the sim assessment to be made easier so more pass.

If you want to recruit airline pilots you have to improve the conditions. Current generation of 'managers', like many previous generations, think like you do - that anyone can do the job and experience doesn't matter. Auto TCAS and depress emergency descents help to reduce the risk of hiring cadets / low time licence holders rather than airline pilots, but not all risks are reduced by technology. The two events where the Capt screwed up for me were due to inexperience.

I firmly believe that our current recruitment policies will result in a hull loss. If redundancies do occur then I very much hope they are in accordance with the contract - LIFO, as it will make CX a safer airline.

[cxorcist]

Twice when I was a FO if it wasn't for me the cadet Capt I was flying with would most likely have pranged the jet. We don't have cadets because there is a shortage of pilots, we have them to keep the HKG Government on our side.

POS18 is such a crap contract it only attracts low hour licence holders (not airline pilots, just licence holders who can legally occupy a seat) or those who are desperate - largely the South Africans.

The People Department took over aircrew recruitment from FOPs because FOPs wasn't letting enough licence holders in. DFO Hall instructed the company doctors not to reject applicants because they were weirdos, but just to stick to the CAD form. People Department pushed for the sim assessment to be made easier so more pass.

If you want to recruit airline pilots you have to improve the conditions. Current generation of 'managers', like many previous generations, think like you do - that anyone can do the job and experience doesn't matter. Auto TCAS and depress emergency descents help to reduce the risk of hiring cadets / low time licence holders rather than airline pilots, but not all risks are reduced by technology. The two events where the Capt screwed up for me were due to inexperience.

I firmly believe that our current recruitment policies will result in a hull loss. If redundancies do occur then I very much hope they are in accordance with the contract - LIFO, as it will make CX a safer airline.
Nah mate, cadets are better at memorizing the Part A and FCOM1. Therefore, they are safer pilots than you chumps with thousands of hours to rely upon. Just ask the People Department. They’ll tell you how it really works.

[0ztranaut]

Yeah, I hate watching all those BA, LH etc jets falling out the sky when they’re being flown by cadet pilots. Seems old snowflake is back with his whining.

[Zapp_Brannigan]

Except that in BA or LH, cadets fly a 320/737 for years, making thousands of landings before going to a widebody.

After 10-15 years, our cadets become widebody Captains having done less landings than I did in my first year of flying.
4 or 5 years of being an SO right after school certainly doesn't help.

KA is actually much safer in that regard.

The good safety records at CX mainly rely on having a good mix of experienced and cadets crew.
Crew 100% of the flights with cadets and we are no different than other airlines in asia. Let's be realistic, they don't have a good safety reputation.
Good at following procedures, yes. Handling the jet or thinking outside the box? No.

[0ztranaut]

Except that in BA or LH, cadets fly a 320/737 for years, making thousands of landings before going to a widebody.

After 10-15 years, our cadets become widebody Captains having done less landings than I did in my first year of flying.
4 or 5 years of being an SO right after school certainly doesn't help.

KA is actually much safer in that regard.

The good safety records at CX mainly rely on having a good mix of experienced and cadets crew.
Crew 100% of the flights with cadets and we are no different than other airlines in asia. Let's be realistic, they don't have a good safety reputation.
Good at following procedures, yes. Handling the jet or thinking outside the box? No.

Agreed, try to change the system, leave or accept the way things are, but what’s the use of all the snide remarks about the young guys going on over there in FH? They’re not the ones making hiring decisions, from over here it just seems like a cowardly move to b***h online about the kids and not have the cajones to push for change if you feel so strongly about it.

[Memorylapse]

Agreed, try to change the system, leave or accept the way things are, but what’s the use of all the snide remarks about the young guys going on over there in FH? They’re not the ones making hiring decisions, from over here it just seems like a cowardly move to b***h online about the kids and not have the cajones to push for change if you feel so strongly about it.

Absolutely correct - but haven't you seen that b******g is all that snowflake does all his life?

[YellowFever777]

Agreed, try to change the system, leave or accept the way things are, but what’s the use of all the snide remarks about the young guys going on over there in FH? They’re not the ones making hiring decisions, from over here it just seems like a cowardly move to b***h online about the kids and not have the cajones to push for change if you feel so strongly about it.

Indeed,

Would love to see the likes of cxorcist raise his objections about the inadequate flying skills of his junior colleagues on yammer, under his real name, rather than spewing his bile infecting every single discussion on here hiding behind a pseudonym.

That would take balls however, which are in short supply around these parts.

[Memorylapse]

Indeed,

Would love to see the likes of cxorcist raise his objections about the inadequate flying skills of his junior colleagues on yammer, under his real name, rather than spewing his bile infecting every single discussion on here hiding behind a pseudonym.

That would take balls however, which are in short supply around these parts.

He must have a lonely lonely life. Not sure how his "mates" deals with the negativity around him. Quite a character.

[cyrex]

Except that in BA or LH, cadets fly a 320/737 for years, making thousands of landings before going to a widebody.

After 10-15 years, our cadets become widebody Captains having done less landings than I did in my first year of flying.
4 or 5 years of being an SO right after school certainly doesn't help.

KA is actually much safer in that regard.

The good safety records at CX mainly rely on having a good mix of experienced and cadets crew.
Crew 100% of the flights with cadets and we are no different than other airlines in asia. Let's be realistic, they don't have a good safety reputation.
Good at following procedures, yes. Handling the jet or thinking outside the box? No.


Except almost all recent major CX safety events (ie. 1200’ over Tsing Ma bridge)occurred with expat crew. So what’s the excuse there?

[fly1981]

Except almost all recent major CX safety events (ie. 1200’ over Tsing Ma bridge)occurred with expat crew. So what’s the excuse there?

i would love you know where you get those stats from?

[Zapp_Brannigan]

Except almost all recent major CX safety events (ie. 1200’ over Tsing Ma bridge)occurred with expat crew. So what’s the excuse there?

How many expat crew do we have, compared to locals? That might explain the statistical bias?

But in thruth, it's not expats vs locals. Rather experienced vs inexperienced.

​​​​​​From my understanding, the FO (PF) was low hours when hired and too afraid to disconnect the AP when it wasn't doing what he/she wanted.

I honestly don't know who the crew were, so would happily be corrected.
I have personally flown with tens of FOs who are too afraid to handfly.
Most of them hired with 0-250h. And a few of them hired with 5000h.

​​​​​Now, experience only doesn't make a pilot good. But it certainly helps a bad pilot becoming a better one.

Our cadets come from a highly competitive pool, therefore we surely get the better ones. Unfortunately, I believe that academic grades are more important to recruiters than flying skills. Do they even do a sim ride or at least a compass test?
Years ago, getting into CX was hard. 2 interviews, one engine out sim ride, etc...
In the last 4 or 5 years, with the lowering of conditions of service, we didn't have such a great pool of experienced candidates, unfortunately.


​​​​​

[deja vu]

I'm currently a CA at a U.S. regional with 3000 TT, 700 Turbine PIC. I lived in Hong Kong when I was in high school and always liked the place. I still hold my HK Permanent Residency and wondering if there's any airline doing actual hiring right now in the region. With everything that's happening here, I'd like to leave my regional job and move to Asia. I saw Air Hong Kong is accepting applications but I heard they're not actually hiring. Obviously I'd love to work for Cathay but I'm not sure if they're hiring since they aren't doing too great with the low travel demand worldwide.

I appreciate any suggestions, ideas, comments, guidance, etc. Anything. I open to working in other countries too, so I really do appreciate any suggestions you have.

Thank you!
Sadly things change and I'm not sure that you would find HKG the same as you remember it, I certainly don't.
Obviously the comments here in response to your post demonstrate how things have changed. I'm not sure how bad things are in your current job, but it certainly is poison in HKG.

[cxorcist]

Except that in BA or LH, cadets fly a 320/737 for years, making thousands of landings before going to a widebody.

After 10-15 years, our cadets become widebody Captains having done less landings than I did in my first year of flying.
4 or 5 years of being an SO right after school certainly doesn't help.

KA is actually much safer in that regard.

The good safety records at CX mainly rely on having a good mix of experienced and cadets crew.
Crew 100% of the flights with cadets and we are no different than other airlines in asia. Let's be realistic, they don't have a good safety reputation.
Good at following procedures, yes. Handling the jet or thinking outside the box? No.
These comments are absolutely defining for comparison between other cadet schemes and CX. The worst possible thing for a hundred hour pilot out of Adelaide is to be an SO for 4+ years, then fly mostly long haul as an FO. Nothing could be worse for command development. I’ve been saying for years that CX and KA need to be merged for exactly this reason. Sectors for CX pilots, bases (eventually) for KA pilots. It has been a no brainer for over a decade now, although I’m not sure how HKExpress complicates that now.

[G Merch]

Can we just cut to the chase here and grab the tape measures already?

[cxorcist]

Can we just cut to the chase here and grab the tape measures already?
I actually believe it’s useful to identify the traits that distinguish our different generations. The boomers did that with my generation (X) over past couple decades. For the most part, I think we understand each other well now. Millennials are elusive because they grew up with much faster pace technology changes, and for the most part, they don’t want to hear from us.

[Memorylapse]

I actually believe it’s useful to identify the traits that distinguish our different generations. The boomers did that with my generation (X) over past couple decades. For the most part, I think we understand each other well now. Millennials are elusive because they grew up with much faster pace technology changes, and for the most part, they don’t want to hear from us.

Hey, Snowflake! How come your profile says you are new here? Your'e an ooooolllddd whiner, MATE!

[deja vu]

Hey, Snowflake! How come your profile says you are new here? Your'e an ooooolllddd whiner, MATE!

A couple of old sayings that have never been more apt, "you get what you pay for" or maybe "pay peanuts, get monkeys"

[AB335]

Took the COVID bus recently with Air HK crews. They said AHK will give anyone pilot licence holder who are physically in HK an interview and sim ride if they approach them. No way to verify this of course

[lucille]

Look to the future of automation. It can’t be too far in the future for airliners to be “unmanned” - in the sense that the two chaps up front are your teenage 200 hour aces. Technology and reliable data comms will make old geysers like us redundant.

The easy retort is that the paying passenger won’t accept it. Except the dear old paying passenger will never know that the two guys up front are little more than recent graduates of the Microsoft Flight Simulator games academy.

Hate to say it, but that’s all that will be needed in the brave new world of airline flying.

Experience has we know it is becoming ever more worthless.

[Bokpiel]

Hahaha, just like Twitter! Just because you all agree, doesn’t make you right. It simply makes you part of a mob. Nothing more than a school of fish waiting to be consumed. I’m actually embarrassed for you, not to mention, of you.

"If you run into an a$$hole in the morning, you ran into an a$$hole. If you run into a$$holes all day, you're the a$$hole."

- Raylan Givens Justified

Could not be more true in the case of our magnificent friend here...:rolleyes:

[doolay]

In the same vein...if you walk into a room and can't spot the a$$hole right away...then more than likely it's you.