Really

[taxydual]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XX9ptCNpik

[evansb]

The unpressurised Lancaster could have been intercepted and prone to ack-ack. The Lincoln would have been a better choice, but the B-29 was pressurised and faster so it didn't attract interceptors. The Superfortress did the job well.

[DaveReidUK]

Interesting, though not exactly news.

[GreenWings]

Interesting, though not exactly news.

how so? Have you heard of this before? It’s a new one on me so it would be interesting to hear people’s thoughts on it.

[Herod]

evansb covers most of it. Strikes me it's someone who likes to pursue alternative theories. AFAIK, there is no documentation to support the idea (all alternative theorists like the words "top secret").

[GeeRam]

evansb covers most of it. Strikes me it's someone who likes to pursue alternative theories. AFAIK, there is no documentation to support the idea (all alternative theorists like the words "top secret").

Most likely. Felton has certainley come up with some 'interesting' theories in many of his video's. Even some of the known facts he has got wrong in some video's.

[GreenWings]

Having listened to the commentary in the video it very much seems to me that this is a work of speculative fiction. What might have been if if if. No sources or real evidence given for any of the assertions made. A lot of disparate threads strung together to make a compelling story.

If there were black lancasters at Enstone then perhaps they were for SOE use over Europe or some such other more likely story?

have since had a look at some of his other YouTube videos. Looks like a nice collection of what ifs and alt fiction war stories without much to back them up.

[DaveReidUK]

how so? Have you heard of this before? It’s a new one on me so it would be interesting to hear people’s thoughts on it.

From 2006:

PPRuNe: Tiger Force air-to-air refuelling (https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/235805-tiger-force-air-air-refuelling.html)

"Now THAT might tie in with the allegation that a hush-hush 'black' Lancaster unit was based at Enstone towards the end of the second world war and was tasked with developing delivery techniques for atomic weapons. This story was repeated in 'Airfields of Oxfordshire' (or some similar book) and a copy of the relevant page can be seen in the clubhouse at Oxfordshire Sportflying at Enstone."

Doesn't mean it's necessarily true, of course. :O

[GeeRam]

Even the Flight refuelling trials for Tiger Force wouldn'y have been needed anyway, as the invasion of Okinawa in spring of 45 gave the US access to enough airfields, more than they needed, and the decision had been made to allow RAF/Commonwealth AF's use of the excess capacity available on Okinawa for Tiger Force.
Kadena to Tokyo was within the normal range of a Lanc anyway, so even if the Silverplate Superfort's hadn't been available, a Lanc could have done the A-bomb drop from Okinawa, although, for security they may have still wanted to use Tinian anyway, which was beyond Lanc normal range so would have needed that Flight refuelling kit. I would have though the Lancs lack of service ceiling compared to the Superfort would have been more of an issue in terms of dropping 'the bomb'.....but I guess even a high risk one way trip option might have been considered at the time?

[megan]

Had not heard of it prior, but seems legit.

https://www.atomicheritage.org/history/project-silverplate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverplate

Wiki references pages 254 and 255 of "Now it Can be Told: The Story of the Manhattan Project" by Leslie Groves, director of the Manhattan Project, If that gentlemen says so I'm sure we can bank it, at a stretch we could say a Lancaster did drop the bomb, well, at least a Lancaster bomb shackle did. Due to failures of the American releases they were repolaced with British Type G single-point attachments and Type F releases used on the Lancaster B.I Special to carry the 12,000-pound Tallboy bomb.

[pr00ne]

Even the Flight refuelling trials for Tiger Force wouldn'y have been needed anyway, as the invasion of Okinawa in spring of 45 gave the US access to enough airfields, more than they needed, and the decision had been made to allow RAF/Commonwealth AF's use of the excess capacity available on Okinawa for Tiger Force.
Kadena to Tokyo was within the normal range of a Lanc anyway, so even if the Silverplate Superfort's hadn't been available, a Lanc could have done the A-bomb drop from Okinawa, although, for security they may have still wanted to use Tinian anyway, which was beyond Lanc normal range so would have needed that Flight refuelling kit. I would have though the Lancs lack of service ceiling compared to the Superfort would have been more of an issue in terms of dropping 'the bomb'.....but I guess even a high risk one way trip option might have been considered at the time?


Seeing as the USAAF possessed well over a thousand B-29's at the time I suggest not. What would have been the point?

[DaveReidUK]

Seeing as the USAAF possessed well over a thousand B-29's at the time I suggest not. What would have been the point?

The point was that a B-29 out of the factory was incapable of carrying the atomic bomb.

[GeeRam]

Seeing as the USAAF possessed well over a thousand B-29's at the time I suggest not. What would have been the point?

Is this the point you seem to be failing to grasp, or another point.......?

[nonsense]

how so? Have you heard of this before? It’s a new one on me so it would be interesting to hear people’s thoughts on it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverplate#Origin
Prior to the decision to use the B-29, serious consideration was given to using the British Avro Lancaster (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Lancaster) with its cavernous 33-foot (10 m) bomb bay to deliver the weapon. It would have required much less modification, but would have required additional crew training for the USAAF crews. Major General (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_general_(United_States)) Leslie R. Groves Jr. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_R._Groves_Jr.), the director of the Manhattan Project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project), and General (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_(United_States)) Henry H. Arnold (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_H._Arnold), the Chief of United States Army Air Forces (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Air_Forces) (USAAF), wished to use an American plane, if this was at all possible.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverplate#cite_note-FOOTNOTEGroves1962254–255-2)
Groves, Leslie (1962). Now it Can be Told: The Story of the Manhattan Project. New York: Harper & Row. ISBN 0-306-70738-1. OCLC 537684

[esa-aardvark]

Hello Megan,
my father was a crew chief on the Washington (=b-29).
Any idea which variant it corresponded to, or bomb to
drop. I assume not a British bomb at the time. Regards.

[megan]

I'm guessing one of the major considerations in the Lancaster selection was the 17 foot length of the original "Thin Man" bomb. The length was dictated so the plutonium "bullet" could pick up adequate speed before reaching the "target". In order to carry the weapon the B-29 had to be modified by removing part of the bulkhead under the main wing spar and some oxygen tanks located between its two bomb bays, resulting in the "Silverplate" B-29.

Due to impracticalities of a gun type plutonium bomb (it was found the barrel would have to be of a length far exceeding the original 17 foot weapon length), development of the implosion type was seen as the only workable method, resulting in the "Fat Man".

esa-aardvark, details for the British Washingtons are listed here, the British didn't have an atomic weapon available for carriage at the time as far as I'm aware.

Washington to the RAF (http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_bombers/b29_13.html)

[layman]

My recollection is that a minimum safe nuclear weapon release altitude was 30,000 feet.

Postwar Australia conducted many trial flights with Lincolns that regularly struggled to reach 20,000 feet for their simulated bomb drops.

Thankfully not required as it might have made for some challenging return flights with a damaged aircraft

[pax britanica]

From reading about the A bomb sorties I ahd the impression there was rather more involved in the bomb bay attachments and connections than for a conventical weapon and a lot of mods had to be made to carry the nukes. Of course the b29 was awhole genration ahead of the Lancaster in terms of design and performance and by the middle of 1945 the Lanc must have looked very dated alongside the B29 even if could still do a good job in Europe having done much to wreck the Germans remaining air defence and aircraft and weapons production capabilities in previous years