Beware of 'Pilotaware'

[chevvron]

Discussion on another forum which is not allowed to be mentioned on here regarding an 'automaatic' weather report feed to aircraft which uses a 'colour state' system.
The colour states reported are totally unlike the system used here, it being an American system giving visibilities in statute miles and using only 4 'colour states' starting with 'green' as the best weather and having no 'white' or 'yellow 1/2'..
You can view the colour states used at www.aviationweather.gov//metar/help?page=plot
I've pointed out this is a potential flight safety hazard' I don't even know if the system has been approved by the CAA.

[MPN11]

I’m glad they explained that was for “LWV”, because the symbology shown for that is virtually illegible.

Have another potential cheese-hole.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Isn't PilotAware done by a British developer? I think it's a one man band thing which is primarily used by GA in the UK - does things like traffic awareness etc?

[hoodie]

I've pointed out this is a potential flight safety hazard'
Of course it isn't! :ugh:

I don't even know if the system has been approved by the CAA.
Whyever should it?

[Fitter2]

If anyone in aviation is using a piece of kit where they haven't studied the manual, and doesn't know how to use it, the flight safety hazard is not the piece of kit.:suspect:

[OvertHawk]

The colour states reported are totally unlike the system used here, it being an American system giving visibilities in statute miles and using only 4 'colour states' starting with 'green' as the best weather and having no 'white' or 'yellow 1/2'..

I've pointed out this is a potential flight safety hazard' I don't even know if the system has been approved by the CAA.

To be fair Chevvron - Pilotaware is a civvy pice of kit. When you talk about "the system used here" you are presumably referring to the UK mil colour state system - Not commonly understood, used or trained amongst civvy pilots.

I find the four colour system (which is, incidentally, used on several other aviation apps including aeroweather) to be a good first glance indicator of the weather state at a given airfield. Does that mean that you should go flying without looking at the specifics - of course not.

As fitter says - If you don't RTFI then it ain't the fault of the kit.

As for approved by the CAA - of course it does not have to be approved by the CAA!

I do find your reaction to this to be somewhat disproportionate.

[BEagle]

As for approved by the CAA - of course it does not have to be approved by the CAA!

Nor could it be, given that unlike UAT or ADS-B which use aeronautical frequencies within ICAO specification, PAW (aka 'Explosion in Maplins') uses an unprotected frequency of 869.5 MHz.

[OvertHawk]

For the avoidance of doubt - The "System" i refer to and to which I interpreted Chevvron's post as referring to was the system of colour coding references for weather.

The wider implications of the PAW system i leave to those with greater knowledge of wriggly amps than me.

[Corporal Clott]

I wouldn’t touch Pilot Aware with a barge pole! I watched a presentation on it once from who can only be described a dodgy used car salesman - they even brought the wretched things in a suitcase! It’s cheap and nasty, plus as BEagle points out, it uses all sorts of ‘amateur-built’ kit for its use from the now defunct Maplins - I’ve seen Raspberry Pis, cheap Chinese GPS dongles, cheap Chinese WifFi dongles and all sorts of antennae and battery lash-ups in light and microlight aircraft. Some of the ground stations aren’t much better, with amateurs (with good intentions) building their own and piping out all sorts of info (weather, aircraft position estimates and rebroadcast FLARM) - none of it is to any certified standard. Of course, to those that use it, it is cheap and better than anything they might have, so they are seduced by it. Having seen some of the installs in GA aircraft I fear for them meeting their lookout responsibilities.

As BEagle says - ADS-B is the international standard for such things as agreed by ICAO - not some dodgy car dealers and CB radio enthusiasts! Oddly enough, the military would never be allowed to fit Pilot Aware due to it’s amateur nature and lack of any proper certification. So that means that the GA pilots will only detect the estimated Mode S locations from our aircraft or if we are pushing out ADS-B. So it’s better than nothing I guess. Sadly, if Pilot Aware is the only thing the light aircraft is carrying to transmit it’s location, then the military aircraft will see nothing apart from what they see with their eyeballs.

CPL Clott

PS. This is one on the coaming - about the size of a large walkie-talkie and either a battery pack or fag lighter power supply via wires. It displays to a separate tablet device.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/630x420/image_002703c7ad1ed4d045d25d1e5f92f13bf1e564c7.jpeg

[Hollman]

@Cpl Cott, My modest machine is not transponder equipped, so I am looking at SkyEcho 2 for Electronic Conspicuity (as it is the mandated standard). I fly in North Yorkshire, and would like to be seen by the various RAF aircraft in the area - do you know which fleets do 'push out ADS-B', and or receive it?

[Corporal Clott]

All of these UK Military aircraft types can and do use ADS-B:

Jupiter
Juno
C17
Voyager
C130J
Merlin
A400M
Prefect
Texan
Phenom
Hunter (FRADU)
Sentry
F35B
Poseidon

Most of these also have ADS-B receive. Also, some other aircraft like the BBMF’s carry PowerFLARM that receives ADS-B. Other types have modification plans too - it’s becoming more and more widespread outside the UK so they need to get the capability.

Then there are USAF and other visiting forces that use it too. :ok:

[ETOPS]

I fly a performance light aircraft here in the UK - Vans RV-6. I've equipped it with an Electronic Conspicuity (EC) suite for safety. My first line of defence is a new Mode S transponder with Extended Squitter enabled - this is the bit that performs the ADSB-out function. I feed GPS positional info from a Pilotaware unit which is directly wired into the transponder and has it's own dedicated power supply. A professional avionics engineer was involved in this so no "explosion in Maplins" thank you........

Thus I am visible to all ATC units with seconadry radar, and other aircraft that can receive my ADSB transmission. Using PAW means that I can receive ADSB from other traffic, as an aid to my VFR "see and avoid" principal, and have had numerous encounters where it has proved it's worth as an aid.

Just to correct a bad piece of fake news from the OP, the forthcoming met uploads from Pilotaware are standard Metars with visibility in nautical miles as is usual in the UK.
The colour coding proposed has absolutely nothing to do with military operations - many light aircraft pilots will have no knowledge of RAF procedures anyway.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

@Cpl Cott, My modest machine is not transponder equipped, so I am looking at SkyEcho 2 for Electronic Conspicuity (as it is the mandated standard). I fly in North Yorkshire, and would like to be seen by the various RAF aircraft in the area - do you know which fleets do 'push out ADS-B', and or receive it?
Sky echo 2 looks like an excellent piece of kit, and I commend you for taking steps towards EC! Puddle jumped the other day in a TAS/mode S equipped aircraft and it was scary how much stuff was called by ATC that wasn't on TAS. I'm seriously considering skyecho to get ADS-B and FLARM in, but the more folk get it, the more useful ADSB is.

[Hollman]

@Cpl Clott. Thanks for the list - so it seems that BAe146, CH47, Griffin, Puma, Tutor, BBMF, Rivet Joint, Shadow, are not ADS-B equipped. Nor are Hawk T1/T2 or Typhoon which are frequently in the area.

@pba_target. I agree. Although I want ADS-B and Flarm-in (there are plenty of gliders around here) I'm more interested in SkyEcho's ADS-B emissions, as I'd like to be seen, especially by the occasional fast movers. I have no idea whether or not Leeming, Topcliffe or Linton have ADS-B Surveillance capability, or for that matter whether the regional airport zone/approach units do and can see me for traffic reporting purposes.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

@Cpl Clott. Thanks for the list - so it seems that BAe146, CH47, Griffin, Puma, Tutor, BBMF, Rivet Joint, Shadow, are not ADS-B equipped. Nor are Hawk T1/T2 or Typhoon which are frequently in the area.

@pba_target. I agree. Although I want ADS-B and Flarm-in (there are plenty of gliders around here) I'm more interested in SkyEcho's ADS-B emissions, as I'd like to be seen, especially by the occasional fast movers. I have no idea whether or not Leeming, Topcliffe or Linton have ADS-B Surveillance capability, or for that matter whether the regional airport zone/approach units do and can see me for traffic reporting purposes.

Yeah, to be honest with SkyEcho /similar being cheap and walk on, I genuinely don't know why we wouldn't mandate minimum battery powered EC for everything that flies, go the way of the USA. Display on a tablet/smartphone and I'd say you've just significantly cut the chance of mid-air. ADS-B in is such a step change in SA in the cockpit (if properly displayed).

[Lima Juliet]

Hollman Yes, but mods are in the pipeline for the majority that you list unless they are soon up for the chop. Many have Extended Squitter Mode S or Mode 5 that just needs wiring to the GPS. As ever, sounds easy but is expensive... :ok:

Also, your ADS-B emission may well be rebroadcast on JTIDS/Link16/MIDS as a track, so others may well see you that hasn’t been listed. The good news about these datalinks is that they are ‘nodeless’ and don’t need to rely upon ground infrastructure to share their combined picture between aircraft. So you may be quite surprised who can see you.

The bottom line is to poke out Electronic Conspicuity that is ICAO standardised and not from the ‘explosion in a Maplins shop’ devices that BEagle has described. It sounds like ETOPS has the best idea in using a Mode S to give ADS-B Out but using Pilot Aware for ADS-B In. Although there are cheaper amateur built devices like Stratux - that could cost you less than £50 with no subscription to receive ADS-B. I’ve used SkyEcho and it is good for a low power ADS-B device for transmit and receive, plus also for £20 a year you can buy a licence to de-encrypt FLARM on it too. Completely standalone and no massive antennae like the others - it’s about the size of a fag packet with an 8hr internal battery - also, less than £500, so definitely my choice for now. I even took it for the Rapid Capabilities Office to have a look at.

[Hollman]

LJ - That's reassuring on the mil receive side. When I'm tooling around at 500-3000' at just over a mile a minute :) or so in the open FIR I've often felt a bit exposed. As you note, there a few low-cost solutions for receiving ADS-B, but if your not emitting ADS-B then you're not contributing to the coherent picture and you're fragmenting it further. There are some highly charged debates taking place in the GA forums on EC options, but I see SkyEcho 2 plus Flarm as a positive choice which supports ADS-B out, and it's self-contained nature is what I need in my machine.

[BEagle]

SkyEcho2 with the UAT element switched to FLARM is probably the best option available.

UAT uses an ICAO approved protected aeronautical frequency and is the system of choice at lower levels in the USandA. The UK hasn't invested in either the Recognised Air Picture or ground infrastructure to support it yet, unfortunately.

France is quite keen on UAT, but it'll be a long time before Europe has the same FIS-B and TIS-B availability as the US.

[Hollman]

Whilst I favour SkyEcho with ADS-B as it is the approved protocol operating on an approved frequency, I note that PAW is hard over on its argument that they will not support ADS-B out on the premise that the frequency does not have the capacity to handle the volume of ADS-B traffic that would result from all potential users utilising it. I have no idea to what extent that is true, but PAW pressing ahead with an unprotected frequency and bespoke protocol, looks like wishful thinking - however much I respect their efforts to achieve a UK EC solution.

[ETOPS]

pressing ahead with an unprotected frequency and bespoke protocol

I use it because it is available today and works as advertised. I use my aircraft for flights up and down the country passing through controlled airspace/TMZs as required and detecting gliders, light aircraft, mil av and commercial traffic along the route. Other systems are available but none match up to my set-up and my experience gives me confidence that I'm doing all I can EC wise......

[Hollman]

ETOPS - you're doing more extensive flying than me, and I recognise that you've equipped yourself comprehensively to do it. I'm just exposing my thoughts on which single piece of EC kit I will go for, and since SkyEcho both emits and receives ADS-B, that is the one I choose for my needs. I appreciate everyone has different views on the subject and have been interested to hear them. PAW are clearly making great progress and I hope that somehow an integrated EC solution can be achieved.

[Mahogany Fighter]

ETOPS - you're doing more extensive flying than me, and I recognise that you've equipped yourself comprehensively to do it. I'm just exposing my thoughts on which single piece of EC kit I will go for, and since SkyEcho both emits and receives ADS-B, that is the one I choose for my needs. I appreciate everyone has different views on the subject and have been interested to hear them. PAW are clearly making great progress and I hope that somehow an integrated EC solution can be achieved.

Normally lurk and rarely post but just wanted to say that SkyEcho is a fine piece of kit which I use to receive ADS-B and FLARM directly and display warnings in SkyDemon. I no longer need the transmit capability because like so many rotary people now, I am transmitting ADS-B from my transponder. My experiences with Pilot unAware were shocking. I was hooked in by a snake oil salesmen at a show who claimed it could receive everything and be seen by everyone else. Turns out you can only receive FLARM if it is received and rebroadcast by a bunch of spotters on the ground and never ever worked were I operate. Nobody can detect you using It because it uses some low power transmission outside of the aviation band. The build quality was rubbish and it got far too hot in the cockpit for my liking. The snake oil salesmen told me it was cheap. Well not that cheap when you throw it in the bin after 6 months of frustration.

[neilmurg]

Discussion on another forum which is not allowed to be mentioned on here regarding an 'automaatic' weather report feed to aircraft which uses a 'colour state' system.
The colour states reported are totally unlike the system used here, it being an American system giving vis. in statute miles and using only 4 'colour states' starting with 'green' as the best weather and having no 'white' or 'yellow 1/2'..
You can view the colour states used at www.aviationweather.gov//metar/help?page=plot
I've pointed out this is a potential flight safety hazard' I don't even know if the system has been approved by the CAA.That's disappointing Che>>ron.
It's a safety device, even if you don't like it, IT IS an adjunct to see and avoid, and providing free in-flight weather when there's no FIS-B and TIS-B in Europe.
OK, you don't like the colour scheme, but your hobby shouldn't be so destructive/dismissive of positive developments for safety in GA.
peace, move on and grow.
I've not been here for a few years, a la Kennedy Steve: 'C'YA'

[chevvron]

That's disappointing Che>>ron.
It's a safety device, even if you don't like it, IT IS an adjunct to see and avoid, and providing free in-flight weather when there's no FIS-B and TIS-B in Europe.
OK, you don't like the colour scheme, but your hobby shouldn't be so destructive/dismissive of positive developments for safety in GA.
peace, move on and grow.
I've not been here for a few years, a la Kennedy Steve: 'C'YA'
I was referring only to the introduction of a different airfield colour state system compared to the one which already exists in the UK; the other features of Pilotaware are of no concern to me personally, however what should be of some concern is the amount of information fed to the pilot via Pilotaware; some pilots might concentrate on this and forget to look out of the window and thus not see an aircraft approaching which is not emitting any type of ellectronic conspicuity.

[CAPS_pin_removed]

I was referring only to the introduction of a different airfield colour state system compared to the one which already exists in the UK; the other features of Pilotaware are of no concern to me personally, however what should be of some concern is the amount of information fed to the pilot via Pilotaware; some pilots might concentrate on this and forget to look out of the window and thus not see an aircraft approaching which is not emitting any type of ellectronic conspicuity.

Hi Chevvron, I am mystified by this apparently unwarranted attack on Pilot Aware. You actually go so far as to say "... the amount of information fed to the pilot via Pilotaware ..." is a concern to you. Would you prefer pilots be kept in the dark? A pilot looking out the window may not see a contact but with Pilot Aware there is a chance they will get an audible traffic warning whilst continuing to look out the window. Just as they might in a G1000 equipped aircraft with TCAS. Not many GA aircraft in the UK have such a fit. If you are lucky enough to have say G1000 with TCAS and you get an audible warning, but still struggle to identify the target for any one of myriad reasons, you have an option to glance at the screen to get better situational awareness of the threat and the threat vector. Coming from the world of Avidyne and G1000 I was astonished to discover that for an almost trivial amount of money I could buy a box of tricks from a small UK company and link it to, in my case, another utterly amazing product called SkyDemon and get a bloody good facsimile of what I had in aircraft costing millions. I would ask you to reconsider and update this thread appropriately. You are doing a disservice to a fledgling British company that is punching well above its weight. You are also doing a disservice to any pilot rightly anxious about one of the most serious threats to aviation safety after CFIT, who might be considering how to mitigate the risk.

Some of the other posts on this thread come across as what I take to be trolling, if I understand that term correctly. Objecting to Pilot Aware being a young company in the same way that Microsoft was a young company when Bill Gates was tinkering in his garage with components from Radio Shack or RS or a US Maplins is not a reasoned assessment of anything.

Kind regards, J

[The B Word]

CAPS_pin_removed and neilmurg - can you flourish us with your credentials to post here on a forum that is:

A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

:hmm:

[Easy Street]

Objecting to Pilot Aware being a young company in the same way that Microsoft was a young company when Bill Gates was tinkering in his garage with components from Radio Shack or RS or a US Maplins is not a reasoned assessment of anything.

This is not a reasoned argument unless you can point us to an example of early Microsoft products being marketed for deployment in environments where safety certification applies.

[CAPS_pin_removed]

CAPS_pin_removed and neilmurg - can you flourish us with your credentials to post here on a forum that is:



:hmm:

You need to direct that comment to the person who made the original post.

[CAPS_pin_removed]

This is not a reasoned argument unless you can point us to an example of early Microsoft products being marketed for deployment in environments where safety certification applies.

Difficult to know where you're going there Easy Street. But I'll let you continue in whichever direction it is uninterrupted.

Personally I am not familiar with the 'safety certification' process for Pilot Away, Sky Echo etc.

[The B Word]

You need to direct that comment to the person who made the original post.

I believe the OP is an ex-Service Air Trafficker and also Air Cadet Gliding Instructor as a reservist in later years?? Both yours and Neil Murg’s posts stand out as folks that have been on Pprune for some time but don’t seem to have posted here before. So it looks kind of odd that you chip in on a military discussion forum in defence of a piece of cheap kit that many mil operators have seen and don’t like due to it not transmitting a signal that any of them are ever likely to detect. Now ADS-B Out is a different matter and many types will detect that via various means. As for introducing your own bespoke weather colour codes - well that just beggars belief!

[CAPS_pin_removed]

I believe the OP is an ex-Service Air Trafficker and also Air Cadet Gliding Instructor as a reservist in later years?? Both yours and Neil Murg’s posts stand out as folks that have been on Pprune for some time but don’t seem to have posted here before. So it looks kind of odd that you chip in on a military discussion forum in defence of a piece of cheap kit that many mil operators have seen and don’t like due to it not transmitting a signal that any of them are ever likely to detect. Now ADS-B Out is a different matter and many types will detect that via various means. As for introducing your own bespoke weather colour codes - well that just beggars belief!

Apologies if I made a faux pas posting here. I arrived on this thread having clicked on a link in a forum I came across while researching Pilot Aware. I have one and now want to make it a permanent install in the Jodel I fly. I didn't notice any filters making me aware that this is exclusively a military forum and Pilot Aware is a GA product. I have great respect for the forces and didn't intend to barge into the officers mess uninvited! I used to attend Military Civil Aviation Safety events (they had a name like MCASD or something). They were excellent events, great fun, and fostered a better understanding of the challenges civil and military pilots face in shared airspace. It rather sounds as though you do not subscribe to that sort of fraternisation.

It isn't clear to me what the objection to Pilot Aware (PA) really is. The OP complains about metar colours. I thought PA provided a feed and the display device and software managed the rendering, eg SkyDemon on an iPad or whatever. Either way I will go back to PA and ask them if they can influence this and suggest conforming to the standard you recommend. I hope to avail of this feature in due course. I presume however that military pilots will not actually be relying on Pilot Aware for metars in flight so I wonder why the OP chose to comment here. If, as you say, the OP is involved in gliding then that person should be the first to embrace with enthusiasm Pilot Aware and anything like it rather than attack it on any forum. Pilot Aware is Flarm capable and invaluable anywhere gliders may be encountered.

You dismiss Pilot Aware as 'cheap'. With the greatest respect I can't help thinking that calling Pilot Aware cheap is a luxury you can afford because the tax payer funds your flying. For the rest of us cheap translates as affordable. If Pilot Aware is objectionable by virtue of being affordable then I think it stands guilty as accused.

Finally, I hear what you say about ADS-B. No argument, would be great if it had it. I believe it detects ADS-B so if you are transmitting as you scream down the valley low level in your typhoon (yep, I'm jealous as hell) then at least the situation is better than no Pilot Aware or similar in use. Surely you would prefer it that way?

Blue skies and tail winds to all. J

[CAPS_pin_removed]

.... As for introducing your own bespoke weather colour codes - well that just beggars belief!

Please see above from ETOPS: "Just to correct a bad piece of fake news from the OP, the forthcoming met uploads from Pilotaware are standard Metars with visibility in nautical miles as is usual in the UK.
The colour coding proposed has absolutely nothing to do with military operations - many light aircraft pilots will have no knowledge of RAF procedures anyway."

[chevvron]

Please see above from ETOPS: "Just to correct a bad piece of fake news from the OP, the forthcoming met uploads from Pilotaware are standard Metars with visibility in nautical miles as is usual in the UK.
The colour coding proposed has absolutely nothing to do with military operations - many light aircraft pilots will have no knowledge of RAF procedures anyway."
METARS in the UK have to my knowledge used metres and kilometres for met visibility for over 50 years; this system being US based uses statute miles not nautical miles.

[chevvron]

I believe the OP is an ex-Service Air Trafficker and also Air Cadet Gliding Instructor as a reservist in later years?? Both yours and Neil Murg’s posts stand out as folks that have been on Pprune for some time but don’t seem to have posted here before. So it looks kind of odd that you chip in on a military discussion forum in defence of a piece of cheap kit that many mil operators have seen and don’t like due to it not transmitting a signal that any of them are ever likely to detect. Now ADS-B Out is a different matter and many types will detect that via various means. As for introducing your own bespoke weather colour codes - well that just beggars belief!
Not quite right. After my NATCS ATCO Cadet course from 1971 to 1974 during which I worked for a while at a JATCRU, I was posted direct to RAE Farnborough where, being a MOD(PE) airfield, I quickly learnt military ATC procedures (including PAR) and used them for 26 odd years until our last military commitment (radar approach control and radar director for RAF Odiham) ceased in early 2000.
I was an Air Cadet glider pilot providing air experience flights to hundreds of cadets, declining the chance to become an instructor due to work commitments but after being commisioned in the RAFVR(T) (1979 to 1998) I also became a Wing Gliding Liaison Officer.
When I learnt that 'Pilot Aware' were providing a 'colour state' system which was radically different to the established military system in the UK, I decided (as ATCOs do) that in the interests of flight safety, I would alert military aircrew to this via a military forum .
The 2 persons who seem to object took this as if I were saying the whole of Pilot Aware systems were rubbish however I have made it perfectly clear at #24 that this is not so.

[Airways B]

Absolutely brilliant news to see that the "Used Car Salesman" :ugh: has been awarded an OBE in recognition to his contribution to Aviation Safety ..Well done Keith!!

https://www.flyer.co.uk/obe-for-pilot-awares-keith-vinning/

With the ATOM grid network now in place and growing there'll be a lot more to come from the Pilotaware team aside from this extremely useful METAR feature!

[Corporal Clott]

Absolutely brilliant news to see that the "Used Car Salesman" :ugh: has been awarded an OBE in recognition to his contribution to Aviation Safety ..Well done Keith!!

https://www.flyer.co.uk/obe-for-pilot-awares-keith-vinning/

With the ATOM grid network now in place and growing there'll be a lot more to come from the Pilotaware team aside from this extremely useful METAR feature!

Not the only used car salesman to get an OBE - although this one did some amazing charity work on top to get his: https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/jennings-boss-nas-khan-honoured-humbled-obe/132371

Kind of odd to get a gong for selling your wares, though, isn’t it? Is it because he is one of Shapps’ stooges? :}

[BossEyed]

Corporal Clott - what a thoroughly unpleasant thing to say. :rolleyes:

The Pilotaware system quite clearly has significant flight safety benefits, and the award is well-deserved.

[The B Word]

The Pilotaware system quite clearly has significant flight safety benefits, and the award is well-deserved.

Not really, the pilot aware is a fairly good safety feature If you happen to be in range of one of their ground stations, otherwise it is just like any other Raspberry Pi based ADS-B receiver using a software defined radio (hardly world breaking). But the thing that is arguably unsafe is pilot aware’s insistence to bring in things like these non-standard weather colour codes or introducing another proprietary signal standard. They have persisted with this signal standard, even though no other devices receive it, and also even though the CAA have said that ADS-B transmission is the same standard. The CAA have even introduced a low-power version of ADS-B under civil air publication 1391 but pilot aware insist on continuing to press with their own proprietary standard, even though no one else sees it. I hear they have even tried peddling it to the UAV and MOD under some new smaller version called Graffiti - which agains dilutes the market when the transmission standards should be united. So I personally don’t agree that this is a significant safety benefit.

As for business leaders getting gongs. Have a read of https://www.bmmagazine.co.uk/in-business/advice/why-some-entrepreneurs-are-awarded-an-obe/ to see what the normal standards are.

I would agree with Clott here, in that there is normally a significant charity effort, or an effort to increase social mobility through job creation, to qualify. I also hear that the inventor of sky demon got a gong too, I would also offer that such companies don’t really create lots of socially mobile jobs and I’m not hearing about charitable effort, then one wonders what these gongs were actually for? Building a Raspberry Pi ADS-B receiver or some electronic flight bag software is hardly a world-leading and inspiring effort, is it? There are literally dozens of similar products available. So the common link, as Clott points out, is that clown Shapps (the chap that tried to deceive the world by changing his name to Michael Green - https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/15/grant-shapps-admits-he-had-second-job-as-millioniare-web-marketer-while-mp) who can only be the driving force behind this as minister for transport? With so many others giving their time for free to the world of general aviation safety (like the people that deliver the safety evenings on behalf of the CAA for travel expenses in their free time, or those in the Light Aircraft, Gliding and Microlight Assocs that give masses of their time for free for the benefit if others’ safety) then the sudden appearance of such awards looks highly suspicious. I also heard that Shapps, as a GA pilot, uses at least one of these products.

My personal view has always been that these gongs should be awarded for significant effort outside their normal place of work. Like the footballer Rashford’s holding of the Government to account for feeding children struggling to be fed. That is inspirational. Bringing out another ADS-B receiver or electronic flight bag is not, in my opinion.

[Airways B]

I think you'll find that Pilotaware operates on a 'not for profit' basis . All monies raised from the sales of units is ploughed back into improvements and providing the hardware to build the ATOM Grid network to do their bit for improving light aviation safety.

Deserved of an honorable award IMO

[NutLoose]

CAPS_pin_removed and neilmurg - can you flourish us with your credentials to post here on a forum that is:



:hmm:


I think you are doing yourself and the forum a disservice here. Yes it is in military forum but then again you do get overlap in both the military and civil world, and what was actually brought up is a piece of civilian equipment in a military forum, so you would’ve expected reasonably that civilians using this equipment or planning to use this equipment would be interested in and wishing to comment in the debate. After all, they are probably the ones with the experience in using it, and can bring a different complexion to the discussion.

This is a two way street, you will also find questions in the civil forums where military issues might come up and you would probably comment on those as he has here.

You’ve got to have a bit of leeway and give-and-take when dealing with subjects like this, after all the main purpose of it is FlightSafety and I think everyone would agree that has to be objective, both civil and military.

[Lima Juliet]

I think you'll find that Pilotaware operates on a 'not for profit' basis . All monies raised from the sales of units is ploughed back into improvements and providing the hardware to build the ATOM Grid network to do their bit for improving light aviation safety.

Deserved of an honorable award IMO

Err, it’s a business - a Private Limited Company and certainly not a Charitable Incorporated Organisation as you seem to infer? Details from Companies House and someone appears to be taking money out... https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09786359

[Hot and Hi]

PilotAware is a personal traffic avoidance tool ("electronic conspicuity") for general aviation. The only thing out of place in a forum for military guys is the fact to even bring it up here. It's like somebody in the airliner forum complaining that there are NTCA aircraft in the market, and alerting the airliner community to be careful before loading up an NTCA aircraft with 300 paying passengers. :ugh:

For what it is worth, I am using PAW since three years, and it works perfectly well, even in countries where there are no PAW ground stations (or ADS-B ground stations, for that matter). Where there are no ground stations, it still works was a peer-to-peer traffic receiver and transmitter.

As a traffic receiver, connected to a GA moving map app (like SkyDemon), it displays traffic on the map of my tablet. Optional voice alerts are filtered to only warn of traffic that poses an immediate threat. It receives traffic information from ADS-B Out equipped aircraft, and in a myriad of other formats. Including aircraft only equipped with transponders Mode-C or Mode-S. This - for GA - is absolutely critical as in many countries the majority of aircraft flying in GA airspace are not yet ADS-B equipped, and TPX-C is the common denominator.

It is correct that as a transmitter, PilotAware only transmits its own PAW signal. Nothing stopping you though from transmitting ADS-B Out, if you have that equipment. Then you just tell the PAW device not to transmit its own PAW signal. PilotAware doesn't compete against ADS-B; it is a 'poor man's' alternative to only transmitting TPX-C (or nothing at all). Transmit PilotAware, or FLARM, or whatever, if you can't do ADS-B Out. Simple as that.

As much as I try to keep my eyes outside the cockpit, many a times PAW "saw it first". You guys use TCAS or whatever, great! But it would be stupid for a GA pilot not use available simple tools like PAW to increase their traffic awareness.

[Corporal Clott]

Hot and Hi

It would even better if you transmitted low-power ADS-B (aka CAP1391) or FLARM as more people are likely to be able to see you rather than that daftly unique Pilot Aware signal format that only other Pilot Aware users can see. :ok:

[kghjfg]

I think you'll find that Pilotaware operates on a 'not for profit' basis . All monies raised from the sales of units is ploughed back into improvements and providing the hardware to build the ATOM Grid network to do their bit for improving light aviation safety.

Deserved of an honorable award IMO

it’s definitely not run on that basis.