View Full Version : Flying Boats on the Thames
one11
28th Jul 2020, 14:46
Over the years various flying boats have been pictured on the Thames in central London, such as this BOAC Solent at the Tower in the 1950s and an Imperial Short Calcutta by Westminster Bridge in the 1920s.
Given that at both dates, the Thames was far busier than today with all the docks active, where were these boats able to land and consequently how far did they have to proceed upstream to their respective moorings ? Navigating past Tower Bridge to the Tower would not be a problem but to get to Westminster would require passing low bridges, or landing very close to its destination.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1266/pruneboat_d87fcf51cf98a63889420a2b657214a10fa50e92.jpg
DaveReidUK
28th Jul 2020, 17:00
Wikipedia reckons that the Calcutta landed between Vauxhall Bridge and Lambeth (Suspension) Bridge, presumably then taxying under the latter to moor opposite Parliament.
Self loading bear
28th Jul 2020, 17:16
Wikipedia reckons that the Calcutta landed between Vauxhall and Lambeth Bridges, though it would then have had to taxy under the latter, which is hard to believe.
Tidal changes are as high as 5m at lambeth bridge? Looks like that was enough.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1300x1017/e92dcaa9_a733_4aa7_bc3b_0285e97883d7_fa3ff0560bd077048ed525e 4ca8fc96f797bfdc6.jpeg
DaveReidUK
28th Jul 2020, 17:34
Tidal changes are as high as 5m at lambeth bridge? Looks like that was enough.
That was my thought, too.
Bear in mind, though, that the bridge in the background of that photo isn't Lambeth Bridge.
Self loading bear
28th Jul 2020, 18:21
That was my thought, too.
Bear in mind, though, that the bridge in the background of that photo isn't Lambeth Bridge.
You are correct that this is Westminster bridge.
The current Lambeth bridge is from 1932.
The old one was considerably higher.
The photo of the short Calcutta was 1928?
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/723x555/76dc5e98_4033_4124_8cc6_87a12d2efe11_f7d9f83e7bf51dfe7d735a5 0834776b26eb85ae8.jpeg
treadigraph
28th Jul 2020, 18:37
The persistence of memory suggests that somebody landed Edward Hulton's Sandringham somewhere downstream of Tower Bridge as late as 1981 and possibly even taxied it under the (open?) bridge to a mooring opposite where the Solent is shown. Pretty sure I even went to see it.
Edit: Arrived Tower Bridge 6th Aug 1982 - doesn't say which side! - appears to have been moored there until October '82 before returning to Calshot.
Mind you with 200' between the towers, there would only be about 40' clearance either side which is a bit tight all things nautical considered; maybe they moored where Belfast is...
Edit 2: Taxy she did... picture here (https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-short-s25-sandringham-was-a-derivative-of-the-ww2-long-range-sunderland-20442142.html)...
Edit 3: The un-persistence of memory - Belfast is upstream of Tower Bridge - downstream of London Bridge! And I walked past a few years ago with the son of one of her WWII officers... :O
Another memory is that Keith Sissons (?) landed the Sea Tiger on the Westminster stretch around 1980 - celebration of an Alan Cobham anniversary perhaps?
DaveReidUK
28th Jul 2020, 19:29
The photo of the short Calcutta was 1928?
Yes, August 1928.
Quemerford
29th Jul 2020, 04:14
The persistence of memory suggests that somebody landed Edward Hulton's Sandringham somewhere downstream of Tower Bridge as late as 1981 and possibly even taxied it under the (open?) bridge to a mooring opposite where the Solent is shown. Pretty sure I even went to see it.
Edit: Arrived Tower Bridge 6th Aug 1982 - doesn't say which side! - appears to have been moored there until October '82 before returning to Calshot.
I remember it well: thought it was prior to 1982 but I have a photo I took as we passed over Tower Bridge in a coach.
As above, thread drift, but as a nipper (4 or 5 years old perhaps) I can remember driving down the old A2 (London-Dover) "Arterial road" (none of yer A2/M2 & big concrete bridges stuff then!) with my Dad. I was in the dicky seat of an old (even then) Jowet Flying Fox, driving from Dartford (where I was born) going down to Herne Bay for the day. You went down a L O N G steep hill into Rochester High Street, past the Castle and over the old (lots of steel!) Medway bridge. Looking to the RH side when crossing that bridge there were (to me) several H U G E sheds (Shorts Brothers) on both banks of the Medway and often 2 or 3 big silver (or white?) flying boats moored. A great sight.
I was born in 1945 so I guess we're talking about the very late 1940s/early 1950s. Memory is of course rusty at this distance in time, but knowing a bit about flying boat history now I'm wondering if those boats were ex-RAF Sunderlands being converted to civil use (Short Sandringhams?) or new build aircraft?
In either/both cases I wonder where those boats were headed? To "Tasman Empire Airlines" (TEAL - the forerunner of todays Air New Zealand - 2 letter code still TE) perhaps?
Cor! That's a long time ago!
one11
29th Jul 2020, 13:24
Thanks for all the info. Not sure about whether the Sandringham is taxying under Tower Bridge - engines off, nose mooring position- open and someone standing on top [ - perhaps waiting for or casting off from a tow. ??
VX275
29th Jul 2020, 19:56
Another memory is that Keith Sissons (?) landed the Sea Tiger on the Westminster stretch around 1980 - celebration of an Alan Cobham anniversary perhaps?
Alan Cobham landed his Giant Moth seaplane on the Thames in front of the Palace of Westminster 1st October 1926 on his return flight from Australia.
The CAA couldn't have been watching, as he was knighted and not prosecuted.
sablatnic
30th Jul 2020, 07:00
Thanks for all the info. Not sure about whether the Sandringham is taxying under Tower Bridge - engines off, nose mooring position- open and someone standing on top [ - perhaps waiting for or casting off from a tow. ??
#1 is running, and #3 and 4 seems running too - the bent look of the horisontal blades indicates the use of a camera with certical shutter.
QuePee
1st Aug 2020, 11:14
[QUOTE=treadigraph;10848303]The persistence of memory suggests that somebody landed Edward Hulton's Sandringham somewhere downstream of Tower Bridge as late as 1981 and possibly even taxied it under the (open?) bridge to a mooring opposite where the Solent is shown. Pretty sure I even went to see it.
Edit: Arrived Tower Bridge 6th Aug 1982 - doesn't say which side! - appears to have been moored there until October '82 before returning to Calshot.
I am not sure about 1982, but she was definitely on the Thames near HMS Belfast in 1984. This series of pictures were taken in June 1984 and show G-BJHS. The latter two pictures were taken from the walkway on Tower Bridge.
QP
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1799x1199/1984_06_sandringham_g_bjhs_1_3e48bf3ee7381dae7c819542561d62b beefe6477.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1799x1199/1984_06_sandringham_g_bjhs_3_8067d788f3088e71280087d6af0a913 6b3d92ae8.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1799x1199/1984_06_sandringham_g_bjhs_4_ca388fb2e7c9af88eec95f93b408398 fe0fe865c.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1799x1199/1984_06_sandringham_g_bjhs_5_4fa368d97bbc2d89f07e275d390f414 0bdc71999.jpg
Four Wings
1st Aug 2020, 14:18
A good friend Ken Riddington was the producer of Tenko, the BBC series broadcast 1982-85 about women prisoners of the Japanese in Singapore in WW11.
At one point he filmed sequences on a Solent? Sandringham? moored in the Thames, pretending to be in Singapore. I think he used Greenwich as the backcloth.
Anyway, meeting my father-in-law and hearing how he used to fly to and from South Africa on business on BOAC Solents in the early 50s, Ken invited us all to have a visit on board. I cannot remember which year it was, but as I remember the Sandringham was moored off Greenwich.
We had a unique experience as we sat around and my father-in-law reminisced about about night-stops at Entebbe and Khartoum etc.
treadigraph
1st Aug 2020, 14:36
The image I linked to of the Sandringham at Tower Bridge dates it to April rather than my referenced date of August '82 - that fits in rather better with my memory which is of going up there during the Easter holidays shortly before going back to school for my final term...
This link (http://www.aussieairliners.org/shortfb/vh-brf/vhbrf.html) suggests the Tenko filming was at Chatham in '85 - certainly the aircraft was based there for some period including her active period before Kermit acquired her. I recall seeing her displayed at Biggin Hill and West Malling.
sycamore
1st Aug 2020, 16:27
I knew I had these ..somewhere...Day out ,driving a` Big Yellow` down the heli-lanes...with a photoggy on board,and knowing the FEng on the `boat`....funny coincidence....!!
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1460x2000/scan1744742_811ba1087f94b434a63b9462fc976680c39c7045.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1460x2000/scan1799628_f8044b869e8f4a6a4d82c518d67df3378f2e9732.jpg
Photos credit-MOD
fauteuil volant
1st Aug 2020, 16:56
B####y marvellous, Quepee and sycamore!
treadigraph
1st Aug 2020, 17:13
Seconded! Sycamore, was the F/E Geoff Masterton? I believe he he crewed the aircraft for the delivery flight to Kermit.
sycamore
1st Aug 2020, 21:24
T-D,yes it was `Mastermind`...great shame such a good engineer went upstairs early,but I`m sure St.Peter` s
Zlin is in good shape......
treadigraph
1st Aug 2020, 22:20
Far too early... never knew him but I understood that many of the Southern aerobats liked him to look after their mounts. I'll bet St Peter never gets a look in with Williams up there too...
He would have made a good subject for a Profile in Pilot...
DaveReidUK
2nd Aug 2020, 07:25
The image I linked to of the Sandringham at Tower Bridge dates it to April rather than my referenced date of August '82 - that fits in rather better with my memory which is of going up there during the Easter holidays shortly before going back to school for my final term...
This report (https://www.aircrew-saltire.org/lib226.html) - probably more credible than most as it's from the chap who made all the arrangements and led the aircraft under Tower Bridge to its mooring - confirms it arrived on Friday 6th August 1982.
treadigraph
2nd Aug 2020, 10:12
Weird. Wish I still had all my logs... Mind you, I did see the other Sandringham at Calshot which I think was around Easter '81 - brother lived at Bursledon and took me to see it during a visit - before it moved to Solent Sky. Both were there for a while. I think I may have seen one or other during an earlier visit as I recall a very distant view of large flying object with a red fin over the Solent, probably summer '77 or '78.
Bergerie1
2nd Aug 2020, 10:24
Ken Emmott (ex-BOAC and BA) flew it out to the USA with Kermit Weeks.
Here is Ken Emmott:-
https://www.gettyimages.fr/detail/vid%C3%A9o/flying-boats-england-london-itn-cms-ken-emmott-intvwd-film-dactualit%C3%A9/804570410
And here is Kermit Weeks:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th1JI90vQtg&t=948s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XIVnG8k8Q8&t=2s
sycamore
2nd Aug 2020, 10:42
Just to round it off,all `my` photos are dated 6 Aug 1982,and logged in my logbook too......
In either/both cases I wonder where those boats were headed? To "Tasman Empire Airlines" (TEAL - the forerunner of todays Air New Zealand - 2 letter code still TE) perhaps?
They changed to NZ sometime in the early 90s I believe.
Anilv
DaveReidUK
4th Aug 2020, 06:22
They changed to NZ sometime in the early 90s I believe.
Yes, 1990 I think - TE was re-used for Lithuanian Airlines a year or so later.
Thks for the info re ANZ/"TE". I'm obviously well out of date (NO surprises there)!
While I realise that my OP was off topic (nothing to do with the R. Thames) doesn't anyone else remember seeing flying boats on the R. Medway at Rochester in the late 1940s/early 1950s? For some reason "that" picture is clearly stuck in my mind.
Yes AES, we too always looked out for the Shorts flying boats on the Medway as we passed on the train from Victoria to Gillingham when visiting relatives in the 50's. I think I was only lucky to see them on a couple of occasions though
fauteuil volant
5th Aug 2020, 16:49
I know it's the Swale, rather than the Medway, but don't forget the ill-fated 'Golden Hind' (G-AFCI), the last of the pre-war G-class flying boats, that lingered on at Harty Ferry until 1954 when a gale drove her onto a concrete causeway, ripping out her bottom and causing her to sink, after which the scrapman's torch sealed her fate. However prior to that she had spent more than five years, between 1947 and 1953, at anchor on the Medway at Rochester awaiting a saviour. Had she survived ..... but this is such stuff as dreams are made on!
goldilocksk
6th Aug 2020, 07:19
Keeping the nostalgia going - having crossed the Thames from Essex into Kent via the Tilbury Ferry, I clearly remember seeing flying boats moored on the Medway as we crossed the girder bridge in Rochester while en-route to relatives in Canterbury during the 1950's.
By the way - doesn't one pass Rochester Castle AFTER crossing the bridge ?
Keep safe
Goldilocks
Thanks for the inputs folks. So I'm not just dreaming in my old age then thank you - although now you come to mention it Goldilocksk it certainly IS possible that one comes to the Castle AFTER the old bridge - I'm not really sure any more (perhaps it's the Cathedral you see just before the bridge??). Anyway it's "megayonks" since I've been around that part of the world, apart from on the M2 on the way to Dover, (and as per my OP, that doesn't count) ;-)