China Airlines are recruiting expats.

[kwaiyai]

I noticed an advert for China Airlines recruiting Fo's and experienced Captains today on the Flightinternational website.
Requirements for FO's listed as dependent on age, for example 36 yr olds require 2500TT. No listing of Turbine or turboprop etc. I'm slightly below this figure but does anyone think its daft to apply anyway. Appreciate any advice,Thanks in advance KW :)

[zone]

One sure way you wont get the job is not to apply. Its only going to cost you a few hours of your time to fill in the forms so go for it.

[downfourgreen]

A very strange way to hire new F/O's...Why an older pilot must be more experienced than a younger one? I’ve never seen anything like that…can someone explain it to me?

[kwaiyai]

I agree,
But as Zone said I'm going to give it a go anyway, I'm getting used to NO!!!!!!
Thanks, KW.:)

[penguin]

downfourgreen: Go ask Confucius nicely and he might give you an answer.:p

[CaptSnails]

Without wanting to disappoint anyone I think that their requirements are "minimum time" for a certain age group. I seriously doubt that they will actually hire many 36 year olds with 2500hours.

[126.9]

Whilst we're on this topic, does anyone have any info regarding the Selection Process at China Airlines? Would appreciate any input.

[Cpt. Underpants]

I thought you were a Japie, 126.9?

As far as I know:

Apply (always a good first step)

Travel to TPE for

Interview
Medical (apparently the medical from hell...3 days, full on, like the military)
Sim Ride (also pretty thorough, but not unreasonable)

Wait for results (about three weeks) and job offer.

Good luck. What are you flying at present? Past or present (command) time on B742, 743 or 744, A300-600 (or A310) or A340/330 an advantage...

[kwaiyai]

CaptSnails,
For me I think Depressed would be a better description. I am not surprised 2500 would be a minimum. Still keep trying I guess.
Thanks for all advice.KW:(

[126.9]

I am a Japie. Haven't lived there for sometime now but there you go...! Still flying classics and drinking wine (in that order) for fun. Thanks for the input and dig your website...? :D

[right side up]

Yes China Airlines are employing. But apparently the recent bunch of guys to go over for an interview are NOT impressed at all with the package, and it sounds as if no one is going to take it.

$4800 usd per month
8 days of per year leave
8 days off per month NOT IN A ROW which is a big point
no housing allowance
no retirement pay unless you stay until 60 years old
poor health insurance


Basically it is live in taipei for good, no time off, and you have to look after everything after paying 20% tax out of $4800 to fly a 747-400.

If china airlines wants to employ expats they need to have a big re-think.

[right side up]

even better phone the pilot recruitment office 886-2-2514-6925 directly and ask anbout the job.

[fullforward]

Phoned them this evening: only B 744 or B 743 guys considered, so even in case you are a very experienced skipper do not waste your time filling the forms otherwise...
They mention on their website "preferably 747 type rated....", better read "mandatory"...

[taiwan bound]

Recently had an interview

very simple

$4800 USD per month
8 days off a year
8 days off a month NOT in a row
no housing allowance
you have to pay towards your medical insurance
5 year contract
no retirement money unless you finish up with them at age 60.

The 6 per interview panel were very friendly and warm.

personnel department bent over backwards to make you feel comfortable.

tech quiz
full on 2 day medical
full on psyc test
sim ride with a senior Check captain and senior captain. Both very good and you could tell they really wanted you to pass. Full on sim ride.

Overall it seems a great place with good people, and a good route structure, but I think financially living in Taipei on $4800 per month you would be broke very quickly.

[fullforward]

Are they REALLY SERIOUSLY looking for experienced captains, or just forming a pool for future needs?

[Luke SkyToddler]

Hold on a minute ... is this $4800 / month for Captains or FO's?

If it's for captains, can anyone give us the low down on the FO package, and also whether or not it's a waste of time applying for FO positions unless you're type rated?

[taiwan bound]

the $4800 package is for F/O's.

And yes they are serious for pilots.

But look hard at the package folks and do the sums.

[pilot31]

Are they already screening B737NG FO? And which way to choose: direct or via agency? Who know the difference?
:confused:

[taiwan bound]

The only guys who were there when I had my interview were interviewed NOT through an agency.

All of us were for the A340 or B747-400.

Not sure about the 737

[downfourgreen]

For B737-800 Captains,
salary $6,100
per diem $900
housing allowance $1,000

[pilot31]

which way to choose: direct or via agency?

[Cpt. Underpants]

Good question. For what it's worth, a friend (newly-hired) recommends an agency as they respected the agency hires' terms and C.O.S. but not those of their direct hires.

Ultimately, of course, your call.

[taiwan bound]

can someone let me know what the agencies are offering for a F/O on the 747-400?

[StressFree]

DownFourGreen,
Thanks a lot for the info, can you confirm that the per diem is really $900 ??? I'm dealing with the agency on this one and would really like to know the score, thanks in advance.........

:cool:

[downfourgreen]

StressFree, I'll try to confirm those numbers, and will post here ASAP...
Have a good Luck!

[RFN]

From a recruiting agency. You now have to be typed rated on type.
As you can see, vastly different pay scales and conditions !!

1. BASE OF OPERATION Taipei

2. OPERATOR China Airlines

3. REQUIREMENT B747-400, A340, B737-800, A300-600 First Officers

4. COMMENCEMENT DATE ASAP

5. DURATION 2 Years (Renewable)

6. SALARY
B747-400 / A340 First Officer
B737-800 / A300-600 First Officer Per month (pro rata)
USD 3,400
USD 3,000

7. PER DIEM

B747-400/A340 USD500 / month
B737-800/A300-600 USD400 / month

8. FLYING HOURS 70 hours per month. Hours in excess of 70 flying hours will be paid at the following rate per hour :-
B747-400 / A340 USD 60
B737-800 / A300-600 USD 55

9. TAX Pilots are liable to pay Taiwan Tax. This will be approx. 10-20% based on dependants and tax planning.

10. DAYS OFF 8 consecutive days free of duty per month.

11. ANNUAL LEAVE Annual leave shall accrue at the as follows :-
* After serving one year continuously, eight days annual leave will be provided.
* After serving more than three years and less than five years, twelve days annual leave will be provided.
* After serving more than five years and less than ten years, fifteen days annual leave will be provided.
* After ten years of service, one more annual leave day will be added per year subject to a maximum of 30 days.

12. SICK LEAVE / OTHER LEAVE
5 Sick days per annum.
Other personal/unpaid leave may also be requested if required

13. ACCOMMODATION - Hotel accommodation or equivalent at all layover stations.
- Accommodation to be of international airline standard.

- Suitable hotel accommodation at base will be provided during training.
- If based in Taipei, an accommodation allowance of USD 700 per month will be provided after completion of initial training or alternatively China airlines will provide suitable accommodation.

14. GROUND TRANSPORTATION China Airlines shall provide:
- All ground transportation to/from airfields at layover stations other than base.

15. UNIFORMS
Identification, uniform and crew insignia provided by China Airlines

16. AIR TRANSPORTATION / TRAVEL BENEFITS China Airlines shall provide:
- Positive air transportation at commencement and termination of contract.
- Concession travel for pilot and family members in accordance with regulations. Full details provided on request including free tickets, unlimited ID90, ID75 etc for pilot and family members.

16.
17. INSURANCE




- Personal Accident/Emergency Insurance for the full duration of the contract.
- BUPA private medical and loss of licence insurance will also be available at discounted rates.
18. SCREENING IN TAIPEI Tickets, Hotel, Ground Transportation provided and per diem allowance of USD40 while in Taipei. Screening will take approx. 3 days in Taipei
19. EXPERIENCE CRITERIA Total Time ¡V 1500 Hours +
ATP with Type rating on Aircraft Type
- Maximum Age ¡V 42
- Ideally have flown on type within last 12 months and completed simulator check on type within last 6 months

20. UPGRADE TO CAPTAIN China Airlines may consider Upgrade to captain based on the following conditions :-
„h At least 5 year of service
„h Manpower requirements
„h Job performance
„h Subject to the regulations and bylaws of China Airlines



Glad to see someone making a buck!

.

[kwaiyai]

Nice to have options:p

[right side up]

The whole thing sounds pretty suspect. Different pay and conditions depending on who you apply to.

I have heard from rishworth they are only looking for 15 F/O's. any news on that???

[ejacrew]

Hello friends,
To all of the China Airlines' candidates:
My suggestion is that if you are currently employed and your company is not in the imediate danger, STAY WHERE YOU ARE.
There will be no upgrade opportunities for the expat FO, you either join as a direct captain or you will sit as a FO till your contract expire. We hired about 20 cruise captains 3 years ago and they were told they would be upgrade in 3 years time. But it has yet to happen, probably never will. Yes, they will give a promising future during an interview, but the reality is " NEVER".
This company has a poor management and they will sack any pilots they deemed unfit. I am confident that my assessment about China Airlines is 100% accurate having been with CAL for 6 years as a 747-400 FO. Remember this, I am a Taiwanese-American and I see no future with this company as I am leaving for NJA in the US. Need more info??? pm me.

good luck

[kwaiyai]

Like I said nice to have options, I've personally seen alot worse elsewhere and your right some of us need a job.
:eek:

[Avius]

kwaiyai,

one has options....that is not to accept this kind of conditions, because if one does, there will be soon no options at all..

It is a matter of self-worth and that is diminishing every-time one accepts an underpaid job in aviation. It will affect the ability to negotiate good jobs outside of aviation, should you one day get to that point.

Accepting bad terms to begin with is a very short-sighted solution with with long term bad consequences.

Cheers

[kwaiyai]

Avius,
Obviously apologies if I offended which was not my intention, I agree too that you have to draw the line somewhere. I am however one of many no doubt trying to get a foot on the ladder so am prepared to start under not so great conditions. If that sounds daft Tough. :cool:

[Luke SkyToddler]

Well call me ignorant but US$4800/month sounds like a helluva lot of money from where I sit.

Those of you who are saying this is such a bad deal, could you maybe post a comparison of how this compares to other airlines, or maybe what the expected going rate should be for this kind of position?

[Avius]

kwaiyai,

I'm not offended at all. After all it is free economy, but I tried to make a point, that accepting bad conditions to begin with is the first step to even worse conditions.....

Besides, I'm in the same boat like you....looking to get a step on the ladder.

As a TYPERATED and experienced B747-400 pilot I have obviously paid my dues along the way and $4800/month is not what would be called good conditions under a limited time CONTRACT. My reference was more towards the $3400 offered through some agencies.

CAL is more likely to respect and uphold contract conditions, when you are employed through an agency. On a direct hire basis, they can do whatever they want, and they will. I would not depend that much on the promised $4800/month....

Good luck !!!

[Porn*]

Well $4800 sure doesn't sound like a lot to fly at China Airlines. I have freinds who are earning $9000 USD to do the same job. Thats BEFORE housing allowance.

Just to let you know...:)

[kwaiyai]

Avius,
I see your point ,I spent this afternoon upside down at 6000 feet in a T1 with an instructor friend of mine who also works for a Big Airline and gave me alot of wise info about this Thanks.
Regards.:)

[Trust]

If you are thinking to apply for an FO position, think again. Unless you will be flying with Expiates. You will have a very lonely life. CRM is unheard of in those regents.

[kwaiyai]

HMMMMMMMMMM, My beer bar option is beginning to sound better all the time.
Thanks again:cool:

[CFIT]

I'm getting paid twice more flying B747 on contract, in addition to getting 10 days(in a row) off permonth, which in reality always turn out to be 14 days off in a row. If I ever have to fly with the Chinese captains who does not have any CRM concept in their mind, I'd rather jump off a building.:o

[Piz Buin]

The money is crap...but hey, if you're outa work it's lookin pretty good! $US1000 won't get yo much in the way of accom...do some serious homework ;)

[747-400 F/O]

I really can't see many guys taking the job especially if they can't get out of Taipei for extended days off. The place is not that flash, and well for the money I mean which expat would actually take it?????

Can you also trust them for your commands when they come up? Mind you if I were to apply to CAL I would go directly with CAL as well all know that contract companies are really like parasites.

[Shintaro9]

If you're thinking of joining this setup, be very carefull. You might be better off staying where you are. It's a question of not only money but also conditions and above all treatment by your employers.

The present CAL management (flight ops) cannot be trusted. See what they did to the present batch of expats. Using 9/11 as an excuse, they announced that the company's not going to do well and slashed the market allowance from USD 3300 to USD 1300 (for Capts). They then also slashed the housing allowance from USD 1500 to USD 1300 (for Capts). And what happens, despite 9/11 CAL made plenty of money, and is projecting to do even better. The annoying thing was that the pay cut was only for expats. If the company's doing badly, shouldnt ALL STAFF take a pay cut ??

Management then argued that due to 9/11 there is no market for expats and thus the cut was justified. Well..the point now is that CAL needs pilots (especially expats), so what's the deal on the housing and the market allowance. From what they did, potential candidates need to be warned that this CAL management cannot be trusted. Neither do they honour contract obligations.

IMHO the majority of pilots (locals included) are not happy with the pay, flt ops management and overall conditions. If you're coming here, come when the pay offer and conditions are better. Its this 2 things thats going to console you as things in Taipei can be pretty tough.

Happy (and above all SAFE) landings.

[DirectSGN]

I'm sorry, but 4800 USD a month to fly a 747 is insulting !!

[kwaiyai]

If its of any interest they emailed me today acknowledging my application. I wonder how many jet experienced crews have applied.
Regards again.:confused: