NAS GATWICK

[Kirks gusset]

https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-december-long-haul-flights/?fbclid=IwAR2QvF9arfEdph5i3cr4cFn6nD-zHebJpW92cxZsYzWlzrmzs8pKx31QTLU

Have any Pilots on the LH fleet ex LGW been kept up to speed on this projection? Wasn't the deal for LH re-start on direct "flexible contracts" or will they assume all the old LH Pilots will be agency staff again from the Furloughed scheme..

In any event, maybe something positive ?

[BehindBlueEyes]

Hopefully.

i guess it’s possible that because Norwegian were already on a rationalisation drive before Covid, it might come out quicker the other end as most of the other airlines were swiped sideways by the virus and its consequences. I saw a rumour on here that NAS were possibly going to ramp up operations further in September, although that will mean they’ve missed the lucrative summer market. I can’t imagine that they will want to surrender LGW either especially with Virgin and BA reducing their slots.

[Meester proach]

We hope it’s something positive , but what version of staffing will be put in place nobody knows

[CW247]

With a no deal Brexit around the corner, the new hiring strategy will be interesting to see. But what a truly strange set of circumstances we have here. Some pilots may be recalled just months after receiving their redundancy pay.

Personally, I would not want to leave my other way more secure job right now. If I was a Norwegian pilot again, I'd prefer flexible/contract based employment with the ability to opt in and out of work as I wish. That virus will make a come back and I don't fancy losing my job again!

[Meester proach]

I can’t see you’d be able to opt in/ out other than leave entirely - what with the costs of all the sim renewals etc, they will want people to stay put .

[BehindBlueEyes]

I understand that NAS flight crew have had to resubmit their CVs, although maybe that is standard practice?

Just a random thought, but I wonder if NAS will also do the same as EZY and use this episode as a brutal opportunity to retain those they would prefer and use sickness etc as an excuse to cull others in order to meet requirements.

[november.sierra]

Unlike easy there is a seniority list in place at Norwegian, as well as a binding declaration that takes care of such scenarios. LIFO is what applies based on employment in the applicable territory.

[Kirks gusset]

Bit of a weird one this, the NAS website shows LH flights bookable from Dec 9th but no Gatwick staff or ground support seem to know anything about it and the Gatwick News Site CAPA hasn't reported it either, normally they are rats up drain pipes. One starts to think that when they use terms like "subject to change" what they are really saying is "lets see if we get any demand then sort it out" I guess if there is demand they could always sub-charter until the stabiliser wheels come off. Of course they will also need to sort out catering etc as the current suppliers are in legal battles for unpaid bills.. lets see

[Meester proach]

seriously won’t want to sub charter - that was what cost a fortune with the 787 issues

[BehindBlueEyes]

EasyJet are rapidly selling out of seats for next summer and they’re obviously so confident, their prices are going up by the hour! Hopefully Norwegian won’t miss a golden opportunity to reignite business too.

[BehindBlueEyes]

https://www.paddleyourownkanoo.com/2020/07/17/norwegian-air-shuttles-brings-pilots-and-cabin-crew-in-house-takes-over-direct-responsibility-for-staff/

[Kirks gusset]

“It is a big and important strategic step on the way for the New Norwegian that we now take over the entire and full responsibility for the companies where we have our flying staff employed,” commented Norwegian’s chief executive Jacob Schram on today’s news.

As always, the devil is in the detail... NAS have TAKEN OVER the Companies in exchange for shares, this actually means the crew contracts will still be with those service companies, although the companies themselves are the responsibility of NAS via the acquired shareholdings.

If the contracts with those companies are cancelled or declared void, then those on Furlough will no longer be eligible for payments

[Meester proach]

I view it as positive, and the first step on the way back.

[BehindBlueEyes]

It would be fantastic if it was. Judging by the amount of people keen to get away on holiday, there must be a glimmer of hope too.

[Kirks gusset]

Isn't it a bit strange to advertise flights to the country that has the most Covid infections in the world, has immigration restrictions and a ban on certain interstate travel.
I applaud NAS for being optimistic but with no travel insurance available, millions already owed in refunds for cancelled flights and the possibility of a complete travel ban, I really can't see huge demand for the USA routes until the whole COVid thing settles down.
If you book a flight to a known restricted travel destination you have no claim for refunds..
Why don't NAS simply stick to the plan agreed in May and re-launch LH 2nd or 3rd qtr 2021?
I am told the company email about employment contracts and the acquisition of the service agencies is as confusing as hell..lets see.

[Meester proach]

No, it isn’t, it’s pretty clear.

I think they’d want to get LH going as soon as USA opens up otherwise you lag behind the competition, and I’m sure the lessors of all the 787s want to see some return.

[Kirks gusset]

Like every other player they want to get going, we all take this a read, the issue with NAS is CASH.. or rather lack of it.
All services are trimmed to the bone, debts have been converted to shares, leases to PBH and contracts will be basically flexible paid only when needed, there is no more cost cutting that can be done and the "Rescue plan" agreed that reserves would be built up to allow a proper re-start when funds and demand were available, that was the deal, not before.
Now, once again, they are aggressively trying to prove a point at the same time under tremendous pressures with court cases for unpaid catering, wages in Spain, and lately refunds :
https://www.newsinenglish.no/2020/07/02/airlines-pressured-to-issue-refunds/
Wouldn't it be much better to put the house in order first and start on a stable footing? lessors aren't bothered about seeing returns, they are resigned to the facts that they lost $500 Million and won't see anything in profit until 2026. What attraction is a PBH contract if you get impounded abroad.
As for "competition" for US markets! what competition? no one wants to fly to the Corona Capital of the world and Gatwick forecasts it will be 2024 before traffic returns to pre-covid levels.
Again, no one wants to see associates on the dole, on the other hand with "Recovery" we want a proper route, not some propaganda exercise.

[Meester proach]

I don’t agree with quite such a gloomy outlook ....by xmas I reckon the US will open up and that’ll be the market they will eye up.
You talk of settling expensive legal cases but you need cash flow to do that , and the only way is flying when the demand returns .

Im glad they are taking Boeing to task as well.

[flyboy146]

Kirks gusset

sorry chap but the fact is NAR are now the employers of all crew previously under OSM. All HR functions will move to Oslo.

[srjumbo747]

Meester Proach, your posts are always balanced and well thought but methinks you’re maybe listening to Mr Trump too much!

[CW247]

Remember, Trump is all about whats best for America and American companies. If a bunch of Nordics come flexing their muscles, Boeing just needs to pick up the phone...

[Meester proach]

srjumbo747

Well, trying to stay positive is all we have right now. I don’t pay much attention to what politicians say TBh

[Kirks gusset]

Flyboy, yes I am aware that NAS terminated the contracts with OSM and paid the remaining debts by share issues, but the "language" is confusing in as much as the New Norwegian that we now take over the entire and full responsibility for the companies where we have our flying staff employed,” commented Norwegian’s chief executive Jacob Schram on today’s news. NOTE: taken over responsibilities for the "Companies" .. Had NAS closed OSM and "taken on", i.e issued contracts of employment to crews this would be completely different scenario and mean UK crews could no longer get furlough payments.Employee transfers under TUPE and on a change in ownershipthe new employer needs to have previously submitted a claim for the employees in relation to a furlough period of at least 3 consecutive weeks taking place any time between 1 March 2020 and 30 June.

NAS would not qualify

[mutant ninja]

Quote:
A new employer is also eligible to claim in respect of the employees of a previous business transferred after 10 June 2020 as long as:


the TUPE or PAYE business succession rules apply to the change in ownership.
the employees being claimed for have previously had a claim submitted for them by their prior employer in relation to a furlough period of at least 3 consecutive weeks taking place any time between 1 March 2020 and 30 June

[Kirks gusset]

Lets hope so, although I doubt it because:

Under TUPE, following an asset transfer or a service provision change, employees transfer automatically to the transferee on identical terms and conditions of employment.

[Meester proach]

I don’t think it’s TUPE, because surely the employer is still OSM,just now fully owned by NAS. Which is why they speak of continuing to use furlough schemes

[Kirks gusset]

Should this be the case then I agree, however , no one has any idea of who the employer is.. my thoughts coincide with yours that OSM was simply "bought out" by NAS, the contracts will still be with OSM but HR responsibilities handled directly in Oslo. Some seem to think that OSM are completely out of the frame and the "new employment " will be with NAS directly, in which case its about as clear as cat 3

[3Greens]

I just think it’s great news that Norwegian (&Virgin) are flying again long haul. Willie Walsh must have been taking his entire career on one or both of them not surviving this. I truly hope they prove him wrong.

[flyboy146]

It’s confusing because you are quoting from a press statement rather than the actual MOU that was issued to OSM Employees. It is merely a change of ownership, not a change of companies so the JRS is unaffected.

It was previously a JV agreement with Norwegian already owning a majority share.

The Employer is now NAR. OSM will have nothing to do with the New Norwegian at all. They probably will move into aviation training to a greater degree.