Easy Jet : Safety Culture : Using sickness absence to select for redundancy

[Paul Rice]

If any of us have a temperature, a persistent cough, or a loss of sense of taste or smell we have a public duty to self isolate. We each have a duty to do all that we can to stop the spread of this virus. Despite this and against the back ground of the biggest public health emergency the human race has faced in at least 100 years the BBC are reporting that Easy Jet think that it is sufficiently acceptable to choose which pilots are to be made redundant and loose their jobs at least partly on the basis of sickness absence. To put coercive pressure on pilots to report for duty when unwell even in more normal times is unacceptable but against the background of a global pandemic is revolting.

If this policy continues then clearly an unsafe airline culture exists which must strike at the heart of the AOC. The Rice family will not be making an Easy Jet booking while the crew are subjected to this appalling pressure.

[Contact Approach]

If only the majority of the public shared your opinion.

[d71146]

Generally the public will go for the cheapest option,just my view.

[Paul Rice]

I am going to write a quick email to my MP about this and request that he get an explanation from the Department of Transport of how it is that in the age of isolating and shielding others from this dreadful disease that crews can be subjected to increased risk of redundancy if they dare report sick. Probably find if you dig deep enough into the weeds of the business you will find an AME or two looking through pilot records helping the business select pilots for the chop. If you don't feel well don't go to work. If you feel stressed about the threat of redundancy don't go to work. If you feel that you have to go to work due to fear of being dismissed maybe stepping away from the industry for a while will probably be a good thing and when the market recovers telling the airlines to go ....themselves.

[flash8]

Suspect also they might "do a pablo" and use the occasion to rid themselves of those they consider undesirables/troublemakers, never let a good crisis go to waste as they say. Not sure anyone expected anything less. And I was a pablo supporter before any think I'm denigrating him!

[cessnapete]

BA pilot management announced some time ago that sickness records would be part of their CR criteria.

[Greta_Thunberg]

LookingForAJob

Partly isn't strong enough, mostly would be more appropriate.

They mention 3 things, starting with conduct (lateness, refusing duties, discipline etc) as holding the strongest weighting. There really aren't that many people who have these sort of thins, perhaps <5% where it's significant enough to be noteworthy. The rest of the matrix is pretty much entirely sickness related. In addition to that, it says that trainers and those that have specific airport qualifications (Innsbruck etc) will be looked very favourably upon. Trainers and airport qualified guys make up perhaps another 15%? So basically, for the remaining 80% of decent pilots, the airline proposes that sickness will be the primary reason for making someone redundant.

This is the first round of redundancies, with potentially more to come. What's the chance of a pilot calling in sick when they need to over the next few years with this hanging over their heads?

[5711N0205W]

I have unfortunately (in another industry) been involved in choosing criteria for redundancy scoring and selection which is a horrible thing to have to do. We collectively decided that sickness absence was not a fair measure to use as it would damage our culture of safety behaviour and reporting (another industry where health and safety is paramount).

[JliderPilot]

Unfortunately In all companies, there are some chancers out there that tactically use sickness.

[goeasy]

exactly.... and I suspect the OP is one of them....?
or very close to one!

[fergusd]

BA pilot management announced some time ago that sickness records would be part of their CR criteria.

As is the case in vast numbers of redundancy consultations., largely because it's relevant and legal if competently applied.

[101917]

And pilots never use 'sickness' as a rostering tool. Get real, companies know exactly who do and who don't.

[Count von Altibar]

For clarity sickness is not being used at BA nor Virgin Atlantic.

[134brat]

The OP refers to Covid19 as the biggest 'health emergency' of the last 100 years. Really? Can we take it then that he does not believe that the people dying in far greater numbers from other causes somehow don't count. How about deaths resulting from obesity, alcohol abuse,drug abuse, painkiller addiction, smoking, cancer in all it's forms , malaria etc etc...

There is no question that Covid19 is extremely nasty and will kill thousands but, against a background death rate of all those listed above (and many others) it is really not worth destroying or economy and disrupting our lives so that we can kid ourselves that we can hide from it or fix it. The virus is here now and is here to stay. If it's a question of mankind vs nature, nature will win every time.

[Max Angle]

nature will win every time.
It didn't against smallpox

[antonov225]

As pilots are required by law not to operate when unfit due to sickness or fatigue then this policy is likely to end up in multiple cases taken for unfair dismissal. As they frequently tells their crew not to report when sick or fatigued and it’s clearly stated in their operation manual along with several other sources then to use it putatively is a non starter. Conduct like continuously late, pattern sickness or no shows yes but as there’s a policy to follow for all these it can’t be suddenly used. Only something on record as part of the disciplinary process can be used. It’s a tactic anyway devised to scare crew into operating as much as possible, even when sick. It will fail and crews will continue to abide by the ANO and their operations manual. Management have ample procedures available to pick out the trouble makers. Sad times that it’s comes to jeopardising safety for profit.

[Kirks gusset]

Are they planning on using pre-covid sickness and absence records? it seems unfair if not.
as mentioned BA will use stats as will Jet2 , which may be a wake up call for some, as with all scenarios there will be genuine cases and lead-swingers.

[Pistonprop]

It might well be that they are using pre Covid sickness records. I also think that frequency and timing may play a role.

[clvf88]

BA pilot management announced some time ago that sickness records would be part of their CR criteria.

I do recall some mention of this some time ago - I can't remember if it was rumour or from an official source.

But for clarity, BA are not using sickness, or any other absense for that matter, as part of their criteria.

[Bend alot]

The OP refers to Covid19 as the biggest 'health emergency' of the last 100 years. Really? Can we take it then that he does not believe that the people dying in far greater numbers from other causes somehow don't count. How about deaths resulting from obesity, alcohol abuse,drug abuse, painkiller addiction, smoking, cancer in all it's forms , malaria etc etc...

There is no question that Covid19 is extremely nasty and will kill thousands but, against a background death rate of all those listed above (and many others) it is really not worth destroying or economy and disrupting our lives so that we can kid ourselves that we can hide from it or fix it. The virus is here now and is here to stay. If it's a question of mankind vs nature, nature will win every time.

1.35 million people die on our roadways each year - Covid-19 will give it a run for it's money this year.

Some of your forms of death are listed here.

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/2944635/?fbclid=IwAR1ez-4pQFGvFgSvd2PNNIKfS96unOr7qs1BHsL5Kb4x8hssFof_QJIyifE

Amazing how many people get sick after pay day (more so when paid monthly) and public holidays.

[Yahoo!®]

when faced with difficult decisions around redundancies, using sick record is one measure i agree with. Not nice for the person on the other end for sure, but it makes the most business sense.

[Whitemonk Returns]

For clarity sickness is not being used at BA nor Virgin Atlantic.

Or at Jet2

[Kennytheking]

when faced with difficult decisions around redundancies, using sick record is one measure i agree with. Not nice for the person on the other end for sure, but it makes the most business sense.
It's not about business....it's about safety. Do you really want people to operate an airplane when they they are feeling like death warmed up. Threat of redundancy for calling sick is going to pressure pilots not to call sick when they really should.

No, that is a poor approach to the problem. Either a pilots' level of attendance is acceptable or it isn't. If you have a problem you deal with the problem, not use it as a metric for firing. A pilot may have had a car accident and been off for an extended period due to very strict medical regulations(the office worker will still be able to work).

TBH I don't see a problem with LIFO. It is the most impartial way of making people redundant. The moment you move to any form of "metric", you are effectively using performance and you are effectively "booting out the rubbish". You are unnecessarily tainting those being made redundant......let's face it if you were employing would you rather employ someone fired impartially through LIFO, or someone who has been fired for performance?

[oapilot]

From experience there are two views from the flight deck; if you’re never sick (or happy to operate when you shouldn’t), sickness is a perfectly fine tool for the selection process. If on the other hand you do take the obligations of your licence seriously (or like to swing the lead) it’s a concern.

Would be interesting to see what the feeling was if it was based on extra fuel carried tables, which also makes business sense.

Neither stand up that well to the bigger safety picture.

[Uplinker]

Excessive sickness is a very tricky problem.

We all know that some employees take the p*ss regarding sickness. Getting drunk the night before, Christmas, bank holidays, Sundays, child care issues, a Cup Final match, wanting to avoid a certain Captain, or SIM or TRE. We can probably all think of someone who has done this.

Any HR department worth their salt would have stats of the normal rates of sickness in the working population - probably specifically within aircrews, maybe even within fleets - and so be able to flag-up possible cases of dishonest sickness.

Mrs Uplinker tells me that when she was with a UK flag carrier; she heard of cabin crew who claimed pregnancy and faked their pregnancy tests.

On the other hand, some people are just unlucky with their health. Some companies have a return from sickness interview to make sure the returning employee is OK, and in the case of repeat "offenders"; whether there are any lifestyle changes that might be beneficial to their health. e.g. sleeping, diet, exercise, vitamins etc.

[HundredPercentPlease]

Uplinker,

Have a read here: https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/11/pilot-fears-easyjet-passengers-unsafe-sickness-records-decide-job-cuts-12975889/

[Slfsfu]

Kennytheking

TBH I don't see a problem with LIFO. It is the most impartial way of making people redundant. The moment you move to any form of "metric", you are effectively using performance and you are effectively "booting out the rubbish". You are unnecessarily tainting those being made redundant......let's face it if you were employing would you rather employ someone fired impartially through LIFO, or someone who has been fired for performance?

I, for one, think you SHOULD use performance. Indeed I think it is the primary criteria. The "rubbish" should be exactly the ones to go. The airline business is just like any other business, it is there to perform a function/product that it can sell to others. The more successful it is the more it grows and the more people it employs. LIFO is a crude method of selection and a relic of the trade unions in the old nationalised industries - and didn't they do well :ugh:

[antonov225]

the longer serving employees helped the business to make its money, the war chest it’s currently perched on. Someone in the door a few months didn’t. Use disciplinary etc that’s on record but length of service should be used for employees that have not crossed the line. If you’re genuinely sick or fatigued then you have a legal and contractual duty not to report, when you take out performance and conduct issues that are on record only a very small amount will have been selected. LIFO ends up being a deciding factor when all is equal.

[Zoso]

when faced with difficult decisions around redundancies, using sick record is one measure i agree with. Not nice for the person on the other end for sure, but it makes the most business sense.

So you would be happy to fly on an aircraft with your Mum, Dad and children knowing that the Captain has sinusitis but is too scared to call in sick for fear of redundancy, and when an explosive decompression occurs at 39,000ft he immediately becomes incapacitated. Your families lives are now in the hands of a young first officer (we were all there once), operating as single crew, to get you to a safe level where you can breathe. Let’s just hope he too doesn’t have the same ailment, otherwise you’re all proper fuc£ked. What a ridiculously silly thing to say.

[Pistonprop]

Now, I look at it from a different perspective Zoso. Should a pilot who suffers regular bouts of sinusitis, which arguably could incapacitate him/her in the event of a decompression, be flying passengers in a pressurised commercial airliner at all?

[Jwscud]

Just anecdotally, my AME said last year when discussing my renewal that he saw sinusitis most commonly in pilots who were fatigued and overworked. I had a bout at the end of a very long month including reserve and a large number of minimum rest trips and needed two weeks off before I was safe to fly. I was told it was a decent proxy for fatigue at the right time of year.

[HidekiTojo]

Eastjet should just go the whole hog and use fatigue and safety reports in the redundancy matrix too.

[guy_incognito]

Now, I look at it from a different perspective Zoso. Should a pilot who suffers regular bouts of sinusitis, which arguably could incapacitate him/her in the event of a decompression, be flying passengers in a pressurised commercial airliner at all?

Some conditions are automatically disqualifying because by nature they present suddenly and unpredictably. Other conditions can be appropriately managed as they're not likely to come on suddenly and cause rapid incapacitation. There are any number of conditions which are compatible with holding a medical when asymptomatic, but wholly incompatible with flying during an active bout. That is why it's a legal requirement not to operate if you know or suspect that you're unfit to do so.

[Fanatic]

Now, I look at it from a different perspective Zoso. Should a pilot who suffers regular bouts of sinusitis, which arguably could incapacitate him/her in the event of a decompression, be flying passengers in a pressurised commercial airliner at all?
By that inverted logic can I assume you regard an airline that regularly has a round of redundancies to remove captain sicknote might be your airline of choice? Your pound/dollar may be at risk of bankrupcy but let's not worry about that?
I give up!

[Tick Tock Man]

Playing devil's advocate, I think Balpa will have a hard time arguing against the use of absence, and here's why.

It is not only perfectly legal but a recommended way for a company to differentiate between its staff. The fact that pilots are proscribed from going to work when unfit is irrelevant because the same rule applies to everyone, it's a level playing field. All easyJet is doing is differentiating.

I absolutely agree that there are potential safety implications but I think that will be argued to be a separate issue and doesn't impinge on employment law in the here and now. It remains that professional pilots are obliged to observe the ANO.

Like I said, just playing devil's advocate. I think a poster above made a good point. The 15% of trainers are probably safe and the 5% with conduct issues (a realistic percentage in any industry) are probably not so that leaves the remaining 80% of pilots to make up the other 20% of redundancies.

My guess is that an element of LIFO will be added so it's not solely down to attendance. Fingers crossed there will be ways found to mitigate the headcount reduction.

[PPRuNeUser0204]

The only issue with your ideas Tick Tock Man is that it’s not a level playing field. When you have a young family and the germ hibernators are in their early years you catch everything going. Pilot’s with young children generally have higher sickness than the folk with no children. Where is the level playing field?

If it has got to the stage that HR have identified pattern sickness (weekends off etc) and you have been warned about it by all means include it in a matrix just as you would disciplinaries.

[Pistonprop]

I'm sorry Fanatic, I just don't get your meaning at all.

[Tick Tock Man]

The only issue with your ideas Tick Tock Man is that it’s not a level playing field. When you have a young family and the germ hibernators are in their early years you catch everything going. Pilot’s with young children generally have higher sickness than the folk with no children. Where is the level playing field?

It's a level playing field in law whether you like it or not. I've got young children and I'm forever catching things off them. Do you think if I'm selected by easyJet in a few weeks I will get a pass because I'm exposed to more germs?

Some people are going to be off sick more than others through no fault of their own and they'll get thrown out with the chancers. It's tough luck but it's legal. I'm not supporting it, I'm just saying that is why Balpa will not force easyJet to remove the sickness criteria if they don't want to.

[monkey.tennis]

The biggest problem with the proposed matrix is that it penalises those that have been employed for the duration of the calculation period (April 18 to March 20). Someone who joined the company in Jan 20 is very unlikely to have accumulated many SICK/UNFT days.

as another poster has said, it seems very unlikely that sickness will be removed from the matrix but I think it highly likely that length of service will be added.

[Tick Tock Man]

The biggest problem with the proposed matrix is that it penalises those that have been employed for the duration of the calculation period (April 18 to March 20).

I believe it's calculated by dividing the number of absences by the number of days available for work, not the absolute number of absences. Those with less than two years' service will have their absences divided by fewer working days, so the resulting percentage is both fair and comparable, regardless of time served.

[kriskross]

I remember back in the early days of the 'cadetship' scheme, that I was doing an early post line training flight with a good female First Officer, who was obviously suffering from a bad cold. I told her that she was certainly unfit to fly and I would get the standby (if we had one! ) called out. She was extremely upset and said she needed the money otherwise had to choose between fuel to come to work or food. I am afraid that I stuck to my guns pointing out that it was likely that other crew members would be infected. I still remain deeply sad that I had to come to that conclusion. There has always been a sickness monitoring system in easyJet, whether a phone call from a 'trained medical person' to check that you were at home and what the symptoms were, to a 'friendly' chat with your Base Captain on your return. I know that Cabin Crew could be subject to disciplinary hearings after sickness and I told one that if she was subject to this to let me know, and I would attend as well and tell the investigator exactly why she had not been able to fly in my opinion. Unfortunately, I was not a 'trained medical practitioner'!!

[TURIN]

I do recall some mention of this some time ago - I can't remember if it was rumour or from an official source.

But for clarity, BA are not using sickness, or any other absense for that matter, as part of their criteria.

Not for pilots or engineers, but they are for some other sections including CC.

Airworthiness Notice 47 explains why. For cerifying engineers anyway.

[rotorcloud]

When a major incident may occur in the future related to sick pilots who were afraid in calling sick the applicable managers should go straight to jail for their fear culture!

[monkey.tennis]

I believe it's calculated by dividing the number of absences by the number of days available for work, not the absolute number of absences. Those with less than two years' service will have their absences divided by fewer working days, so the resulting percentage is both fair and comparable, regardless of time served.

It’s still not fair. I’ve had no sick days in the last 6 months but several in the last 2 years. Also I think we all know that the new cadets don’t call in sick during line training and it is far more likely to happen during the exhausting summer schedule.

a new SO is very unlikely to have a full ATPL, be command ready and have the helpful experience that is needed to help the day go smoothly. The proposed matrix doesn’t consider any of these things. You might even think it was designed to target the longer serving pilots in favour of the (cheaper) new ones. But only if you’re a cynic.

[Tick Tock Man]

I hear you, MT, and I just happen to have had twice as many sick days last year than I ever had in any year prior, all due to illness or injury that I could have done nothing about, but unfortunately a company is not required to go through the reasons for each sick day. They are entitled to retain their most reliable staff and this is how they do it.

If you've only had 'several' days off in two years (assuming you're a UK EZY pilot) then I wouldn't think you've got much to worry about. How's your conduct been?!

[BirdmanBerry]

I believe it's calculated by dividing the number of absences by the number of days available for work, not the absolute number of absences. Those with less than two years' service will have their absences divided by fewer working days, so the resulting percentage is both fair and comparable, regardless of time served.

The Bradford Factor would normally be used:B = S x S x D

B = Bradford Factor

S = Spells or number of occasions of unauthorised absence – in the formula this is squared (multiplied by itself)

D = Total number of days absent

[lear999wa]

As a continentally based easyJet pilot. I would just like to add how deeply unfair this matrix appears to be in my opinion. Using this matrix in my based country would be highly illegal, as I believe would be the case in most if not all other eu countries. My most heartfelt condolences to all of my uk based colleagues.

[The Terminator]

So much for just culture, Moral of the story If there is a safety issue and it causes a productivity issue, Best keep it to yourself.

[HundredPercentPlease]

Do we want, as an industry, another Germanwings?

If an airline elects to use sickness (and that includes mental health) as a determiner for redundancy, then from that point forwards pilots will fear going sick and will tend not to when they should have done. Anyone here who thinks it is in any way acceptable to use sickness for redundancy is inviting another Germanwings, or one of these:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ryanair-captain-was-unfit-to-fly-investigation-finds-1.786317

Non-pilots here, please have a think about this. It's a step backwards of 30 years plus.

[Denti]

Well, isn't the current COO at sleazyjet from Ryanair? Same trick in a different company apparently. And has it ever prevented Ryanair from growing and turning a huge profit? Not really, right. After all, EASA doesn't say anything about stuff like that, so it is legally safe practice.

[Kefuddle]

Easyjet from time-to-time has made more money per aircraft treating people decently. The conclusion I came to when I compared easy to Ryan, was that having a ruthless employee culture vs looking after and respecting employees produces no measurable commercial difference in profitability at all. That seems to be more the realm of how much are people prepared to pay to fill your aircraft up.

However, I think easyJet recognise this but also knows that it is the cabin crew who primarily ensure the punters become returning customers, not the pilots. Hence why the cabin crew numbers have been reduced to realistic levels and the pilot numbers reduced to winter crewing levels, getting rid off a large proportion of UK contracts (3 months notice vs 6 on the continent), taking advantage of comparatively relaxed UK redundancy law and all with the aim of re-hiring next year.

The other issue is the use of sick days. What else is available to get rid of 727 pilots in the UK? LIFO is not an option as that would mean the majority of women pilots would be out the door. Performance is not enough, as performance levels across the airline seem to range from good to excellent with very few outliers. The individual contribution of pilots can not really be measured.

LFIO would have been the fairest and would meet most people's expectations. But that is not possible. So, how many times you forgot to file a fatigue report, were late to the crew room, called in unfit or sick seems to be an easy low hanging fruit with the lowest risk of recourse to a tribunal.

[Banana Joe]

So you are saying that stupid political correctness and fake positive discrimination for women, prevents easyJet applying the fairest method.

What a joke of an airline.

[PPRuNeUser0204]

I think Kefuddle is in a little bit of a kefuddle. They know not of what they speak.

[Kefuddle]

LIFO can not be used in UK law when it results in identifiable groups (i.e. old, young, gender) being disproportionately affected. Nothing to do with easyJet.

[dirk85]

Which is why LIFO, with correction for certain elements, disciplinary for example, but not only, is possible. easyJet initial proposal is only to wind us up, they have no intention to go ahead with it, as they would be destroyed in a tribunal, and they know it.
We have documents as old as 2 months where they openly support people and encourage, in writing, to report unfit or sick for duty if necessary.

[101917]

All UK companies now have to abide by the Employment Equality (Age) Regulations 2006 and the Equality Act 2010. This Act overrules all contracts of employment that many on here think are still valid, such that LIFO is the sole means of selecting people for compulsory redundancy.

If a company decides compulsory redundancy is required it must identify which employees will be made redundant and make sure they select people fairly and do not discriminate

Fair reasons for selecting employees for redundancy include skills, qualifications and aptitude, standard of work and/or performance, attendance and an individual’s disciplinary record.

Companies can select employees based on their length of service (‘last in, first out’) but only if they you can justify it. LIFO is likely to be perceived as indirect discrimination by the courts if it affects one group of people more than another. Companies should not rely on length of service as their only selection criteria as this will probably be seen as age discrimination.

It is best for companies to have a matrix, preferably agreed with unions and their employees that include all the fair reasons for selection of compulsory redundancy.

For those of you who use sickness (attendance) as a rostering tool, think again. Companies and their crewing departments know exactly who uses sickness for their own ends and I suspect it will be those individual’s attendance records who are targeted.

[GKOC41]

Not so sure Easyjet and Crewing will be able to pick n mix / target. Their HR will use the Bradford scale which hopefully BALPA will get sight of. I saw it in use at a previous Company and it showed up the crews with dodgy sickness records before I'd even opened up my little black book (joking)

[Stone Cold II]

LIFO+ as it’s normally called has been used recently. If a union and company agree on it you’ll find very little resistance from a judge.

[PPRuNeUser0204]

Exactly.

LIFO as a sole criteria is not allowed. LIFO where it is used in conjunction with other metrics is perfectly legal which is why BA, Ryanair and others still have it in their redundancy matrix.

Using sickness (unless an individuals sickness has resulted in disciplinaries) is down right dangerous in a safety culture.

[Tick Tock Man]

LIFO as a sole criteria is not allowed.

Is that actually true though if it can be demonstrated not to discriminate against any one group?

Where I am nearly all of the first officers are 'young' so whatever criteria are used it is going to affect mainly youngsters. In this case LIFO would be no more discriminatory than anything else. Likewise, there have been lots of DECs in the last few years of all ages, so it may not be as discriminatory as you think.

I'm not suggesting solely LIFO because I think it's right for EZY to recognise other factors but I think there should be an element of it included and the weighting for absence reduced somewhat.

[Kefuddle]

I am pretty sure LIFO as a tie-breaker would be pretty uncontestable...depending on how strong the high priority selection criteria are. Easy wants to lose a hell of a lot of pilots, a demographic which is very similar in capability and performance. The only thing that really differentiates us is tolerance to fatigue and illness. Most pilots go for many years with very few sick episodes. Then one year something goes wrong and you're in and out of the Doctors for some ailment that in any other job would not even be the slightest issue. Using sick to differentiate in this job is just insane. But, then again it just follows the insanity of the law that defines it. For the record, I am in the firing line either way. But I would be more at ease losing my job fairly and not through some abhorrent malignant process that damages everybody from employees to passengers across all airlines.

[FlipFlapFlop]

A LIFO plus option is most definitely viable. Some sickness adjustment to get rid of "targets". Proportional adjustment to eliminate disproportionate reduction of female pilots. Using sickness etc as a sole method of CR will not happen....it has far too many loopholes and will potentially tie up the airline in litigation for years.
The number will come down as well. 727 is worst case. TUI, Ryan and BA have ended up with far more realistic figures. TUI is zero. There is huge pressure being put on Johnson to end "fire and rehire" which is morally repugnant. This has some mileage yet before we see a final proposition.

[an.other]

The history of that case as I understand it was that Ryanair took action against Bellow and lost. I haven't read the full judgement, but the finding was, "The restrictions on employment in “any business in competition” with Ryanair and “in any capacity” are too wide". I'm not sure how that reflects badly on him?

It's well known those clauses are unenforceable. How specifically was easyJet materially mislead?

[Greta_Thunberg]

How specifically was easyJet materially mislead?115. On 1st July, 2019 Mr. Bellew sent to Ms. Bennett what he described as a copy of his current contract with Ryanair. What was attached was a copy of the letter of 10th October, 2017, only. He wrote that, “My Irish solicitor has reviewed all correspondence, share agreements etc., in relation to employment restrictions.” That was true, but at best ambiguous. On the same day Ms. Bennett replied that there appeared to be no restrictive covenants in his contract but “Could I just double check there are no additional side letters or correspondence that sets out any employment restrictions?” On 3rd July, 2019 Mr. Bellew replied that he had “... taken extensive legal advice in Ireland which says that there is no impediment to my joining or a non-compete other than a six months’ notice period.” At least with the benefit of hindsight, this reply was not really an answer to the question, but Ms. Bennett appears to have thought it was, for she replied on 4th July, 2019 “Thank you for your confirmation that you are not aware of any restrictive covenants that would apply to you.”

119. Mr. Bellew was asked a simple question by Ms. Bennett, which was whether there was any side letter or correspondence that set out any employment restrictions. There was. Mr. Bellew did not tell Ms. Bennett that there was but sought to evade the question by referring to legal advice that there was no impediment to joining or a non-compete other than a six months’ notice period. In my view, Mr. Bellew’s letter to Ms. Bennett of 3rd July, 2019 was not only misleading but was untrue. If there was an issue as to the validity or enforceability of the restraint, it was a matter on which easyJet was entitled to form its own view. I find that the statement that there was no non-compete, in reply to a question as to whether there was any side letter or other correspondence that set out any employment restriction, was false
From the Ryanair DAC vs Peter Bellew Judgement - Can't post links but available on the courts.ie website

[CaptainDash]

easyJet pilots overwhelmingly say they have no confidence in boss Release date: 17/07/2020


Over 2,000 easyJet pilots (99.9%) have voted overwhelmingly to express no confidence in the company’s Chief Operations Officer, Peter Bellew. This result clearly shows that there is a serious and widening rift between easyJet pilots and the airline’s senior management.
.

Wow, even taking into account certain possible cognitive biases that’s a lot of disgruntled employees! 2 happy ones by my maths..

[Tick Tock Man]

Because he knew of, and had agreed to, the restrictive covenants placed upon him and yet joined easyJet anyway, prior to this judgment. Either he misled easyJet about the covenants in place or easyJet didn't care. It's not true that such clauses are unenforceable and at that time it had not been ruled, as in this case, that the restrictions went too far, a decision made by the judge with "considerable reluctance".

You've only got to look at his plagiarised 'from the heart motivational speech' to sum up this guy's character. A total phoney.

[HundredPercentPlease]

It's well known those clauses are unenforceable. How specifically was easyJet materially mislead?
From the judgement:

In my view, Mr. Bellew’s letter to Ms. Bennett of 3rd July, 2019 was not only misleading but was untrue. If there was an issue as to the validity or enforceability of the restraint, it was a matter on which easyJet was entitled to form its own view. I find that the statement that there was no non-compete, in reply to a question as to whether there was any side letter or other correspondence that set out any employment restriction, was false.

[FlipFlapFlop]

The history of that case as I understand it was that Ryanair took action against Bellow and lost. I haven't read the full judgement, but the finding was, "The restrictions on employment in “any business in competition” with Ryanair and “in any capacity” are too wide". I'm not sure how that reflects badly on him?

It's well known those clauses are unenforceable. How specifically was easyJet materially mislead?

Have we found the .1% ?

[Tick Tock Man]

He's just a facsimile of WB who gave false evidence in another Ryanair court case. And in the middle we had Edward Scissorhands who turned up stuffed her pockets then b*****ed off. Being a charlatan is part of the job and the CEOs love it. Part of the good cop, bad cop routine. He'll only get replaced by another slime ball.

[hec7or]

easyJet pilots overwhelmingly say they have no confidence in boss Release date: 17/07/2020



Over 2,000 easyJet pilots (99.9%) have voted overwhelmingly to express no confidence in the company’s Chief Operations Officer, Peter Bellew was previously Chief Operations Officer at Ryanair and only joined easyJet in January this year.
Peter Bellew also materially misled easyJet during his pre-employment interviews, according to the judgement by Judge Allen in Ryanair DAC vs Bellew from the end of last year.
The question is, was PB sacked by Ryanair or did he come of his own free will?
Did management want to begin a cost cutting campaign before Covid-19?

[TerryCherry]

Anyone know when it is decided who gets the chop and who goes back to work?

[Lawro]

It appears this week . The company has complied with etiquette & 'negotiated' with Balpa but will impose their matrix this week whilst the CC attempt to cover their own backs.

[Wing_Bound_Vortex]

That’s simply wrong. The matrix has already changed. And it’s still not finalised yet as there’s been no actual proof the redundancy numbers are required. But you’d know that if you read the union e-mails.

[Paul Rice]

Easy Jet may have AME's appointed as consultants and advisers to indicate which pilots should be dismissed on the grounds of redundancy. The whole fabric of a just and fair reporting culture leading to a safe operating environment is being undermined by AME's officers of the CAA using confidential medical information to select pilots on the basis of perceived regulatory medical risk. Is it now time for lists of AME's supporting companies in this way to be drawn up by BALPA and for individual pilots to be guided accordingly in selecting which AME to trust with their confidential medical history.

[Jet A1]

Using medical records to make somebody redundant is simply illegal. Any pilot holding an OML for example would be able to claim Unfair Dismissal under the DDA (2010).

[Paul Rice]

You would never know that it was the medical record that led to your chop, while all the time in the background AME's with their hand in the pilots pockets with one hand are invoicing the airline and recommending a cull with the other.

[guy_incognito]

You're aware presumably that any AME doing that would be struck off by the GMC? Further, quite aside from the obvious unfair dismissal claim when it came to light (and something so monumental WOULD come to light), the individual AME and the company would be facing any number of claims, which could include criminal charges.

Therefore, I assume that you're either seriously ill-informed or simply trolling.

[TerryCherry]

Who are the pilots flying the routes at the moment for easy? How did they decide who to let fly at the moment?

[EcamSurprise]

Paul Rice

What on earth are you talking about?

[Tick Tock Man]

The order was supposed to be trainers and management pilots first followed by everybody else in order of join date (with some flexibilities built in). Instead it appears to have been random and no answers have been forthcoming as to why.

Based on the last known proposals (quantity/matrix) it is entirely possible that some people who are now back flying could be made redundant.

[jmmoric]

Out of curiosity, if you're tired or otherwise unfit, don't you still have to meet at work, and then the employer can find something else for you to do?

I mean, he is paying you, and you're not sick.... you could still wash cars or something like that.... and it's a good pay for washing cars, and way better than pushing paper when tired.

[guy_incognito]

I don't know why I'm bothering to respond, but the idea is that if you're fatigued or unfit to the point where it's unsafe for you to operate, you remove yourself from the roster to give yourself sufficient time to rest and recover prior to your next flight duty period, so that you can operate safely again. That shouldn't be too difficult to understand, but given your utterly moronic post, I'm not sure.

[GDAJB]

Jmmoric,

Good point, but one that is often misunderstood. In this line of work “fatigue” can be something that is particularly damaging to the safety of the operation and the individual crew member. The job often involves eccentric sleep cycles. By that, I mean cycles that can not only be disruptive in themselves, but also don’t follow a pattern. On top of just circadian disruption, there are all the usual life disrupters that can exacerbate the onset of fatigue. The individual then has to decide when the time is right to activate the circuit breaker and reset their work pattern so that things can proceed in a much safer manner.

in my experience, most people are very reluctant to display external perceived signs of weakness or feel that they are letting the side down. In reality, for most people, by the time they invoke fatigue, it is probably significantly overdue.

So no, you don’t have to report for work, since that would fail to provide the necessary reset. What you need is a short term break in order to arrange the requisite reset of your own work/rest cycle. It’s also important to distinguish tiredness from fatigue. Tiredness is a normal part of reaching the end of an energy cycle. Fatigue (although it often does) can be just the opposite. It can involve a cocktail of factors and can occur when you are in fact quite apparently alert. In itself, fatigue isn’t a scale of tiredness (although it is very often used in that context,) it is an accumulation of physical and mental attributes that are in danger of causing an imminent breakdown of the individuals safe, efficient and healthy functioning.

[GKOC41]

Nice post. Sleep scientists like to use the word sleppyness for tiredness e.g. the need to sleep. And they also say crews don't adapt to their rosters they 'manage' them. This is because every flight/early/late/night is different whereas a person on fixed times e.g. shift worker know's whats coming.

[silverstrata]

BA pilot management announced some time ago that sickness records would be part of their CR criteria.

The trouble used to be that it was impossible to to get compassionate days off. And if you made a request that was turned down (as they all were), you had openly declared your hand - and could not take that day off. So the inly way ti get a compassionate day off, was to go sick.

[TerryCherry]

Any thoughts on a 2nd wave meaning airlines have a rethink and actually make more redundancys?

[Denti]

A second wave with complete lockdowns and long travel restrictions will finish aviation off for good. Even now there is a question which airlines can survive, even those considered very healthy before the crisis are in doubt, including easyjet to come back to the topic of this thread.

[Kefuddle]

I think it is obvious the g'mnt has latched on to this crisis to drive an agenda. Aviation is an obstacle and that is all.

[Longtimer]

Denti

Aviation as we have grown to enjoy , cheap fares, everyone can fly (including the great unwashed) :) , lots of scheduled departures daily / hourly etc etc etc. Perhaps we will now seen a return to survivability of some rather than rack and ruin / failure for some or caused by heavy discounters, in other words some stability in the industry.

[Longtimer]

Denti

Aviation as we have grown to enjoy , cheap fares, everyone can fly (including the great unwashed) :) , lots of scheduled departures daily / hourly etc etc etc. Perhaps we will now seen a return to survivability of some rather than rack and ruin / failure for some heavy discounters or caused by ULC, in other words some stability in the industry.

[Uplinker]

jmmoric

It's being fatigued not just tired :=

If you are fatigued to the point of not being safe to fly, you should not drive a car either, so getting to work could be tricky for most.

[jmmoric]

guy_incognito

No need to be rude, fatigue and sleep management is a factor in ATC as well, so I'm very well aware of it.... and even I've put in that call. (Even told my friends that the flight we arranged had to be postponed.... cause I was tired).
The question was a "devils advocate".... but I think I'm sticking my hand into a bee-hive here.

GDAJB

Agreed.

Uplinker

Agreed, but you'd still not fly if you were tired to an extend a cup of coffee couldn't solve it, so "tired" is also an valid excuse. But I bet you most people have no quarrels if they are on their way home, jumping into a car and driving while tired, though they shouldn't.

[GKOC41]

Some sleepy scientists who have done studies on crew will state the drive home is the biggest risk for aircrew

[Lawro]

Before you give up half your pay & all your conditions this week , is it worth asking why some are sacrificing so much yet others nothing ? Have you been sold out by Smeagol ?

[rotorwills]

You can ask but will it help anyone that are in this position. This virus hasn't yet completed its death rattle.

[amc890]

From ICAO
Fatigue is defined as a physiological state of reduced mental or physical performance capability resulting from sleep loss or extended wakefulness, circadian phase, or workload (mental and/or physical activity) that can impair a crew member’s alertness and ability
to safely operate an aircraft or perform safety-related duties.

For all the tired vs fatigued people, the above definition from ICAO Fatigue Management Documents would suggest that if alertness is reduced for any of those reasons you are “Fatigued”.

[Twiglet1]

The tired v fatigued discussion is what bought it on. Didn't get good sleep as disrupted worked a few lates etc = sleepyness. Had a new baby weeks / months of poor sleep = fatigued.
The good thing is folk are much more educated now on the fatigue subject.