Unresponsive 208 above BNE, RFDS intercept

[olderairhead]

Redcliffe | Aircraft emergency near Brisbane tonight with a Cessna 208 flying from Cairns to Redcliffe Airport reported as unresponsive on autopilot, missing their destination by about 120km. A Royal Flying Doctors Service aircraft was flying alongside in attempts to make contact with the pilot. After a while contact was made and the aircraft landed safely at Gold Coast Airport. A RAAF Wedgetail operating nearby was on standby to escort the aircraft if required. The Pilot is believed to have suffered a medical episode. Source: AussieADSB.com

https://www.facebook.com/1346267818832810/posts/3165431700249737/

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/314x480/fb_img_1593686357045_dba5616d54d401d2cadb9b0a41bb36b0f5323a1 b.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/433x578/fb_img_1593686576496_ce3c109921f7373dab74181c48b62ab40fccc10 8.jpg

[Chairmans Lounge]

Nothing but ocean ahead

[Lead Balloon]

What “medical episode” ends in a safe landing? Hopefully someone’s not destroyed as a consequence of an inadvertent snooze.

[Petropavlovsk]

First flight since being imported from Indonesia.
Australian C of A done by Skytek in Cairns. Took a few months.
Registered to a Japanese owner with an Australian operator.

[mcoates]

It just proves again how great our emergency services are and how quickly they are deployed in any event like this. A lot of pilots get comfort from knowing that if something goes wrong Australia will throw out every available resource to assist you. Well done guys !

[Capt Fathom]

What “medical episode” ends in a safe landing?

1980. Advance Airline B200 LHI to SYD.
Pilot became unconscious enroute, coming to around top of descent.
The 2 passengers were police officers. One provided medical support to the pilot, which helped him come around.
While that was happening, the other Officer was receiving ‘flying lessons’ in preparation for landing.

[compressor stall]

Also an aeromedical pilot went unconscious a few years back in NSW. Flight nurse helped and he came around OK. Intestinal gas pressure from diet IIRC.

[machtuk]

It's easier than you think given the right circumstances to nod off. We are only human and the body needs sleep. (If indeed that's what happened in this event)
Personally I've nodded off only once in 40 years diving planes, woke up when one of the engines surged due fuel starvation! I was bolt upright the rest of the way home across the straight!

[pinkpanther1]

Hi all,
https://www.facebook.com/959773844186043/posts/1597505073746247/
Not sure if anyone aware of this one, happened yesterday. Seems a 208 heading to YRED became unresponsive and overshot by about 80nm at FL110. RFDS were able to intercept and provide updates, apparently a RAAF Wedgetail also tasked with guiding them in.
One would guess an oxygen issue. Good work by the folks in BNE CTR. Worth a watch!

[Ian Arrighi]

Sio am I right in concluding this guy went through BNE primary control zone unplanned and without communication without issue (as he intended to end his journey just to the north of BNE) and somehow that didn't raise any red flags but after he had flown another 120km and exceeded his SAR time ATC started to get concerned?

[Ollie Onion]

I remember when I was flying overseas in a regional turboprop operator you could ad a phrase to your flight plan authorising the French Military to run a practice interception on your flight. It happened to me twice where we were informed by ATC of the incoming pair of Mirages, we told the passengers and then they arrived and practiced their signaling maneuvers followed by a chat on 121.5. One of the best memories in my flying career. I think my current employer would sack me for doing anything so reckless.

[Andy_G]

Damm, that was some very intresting listening.

[wishiwasupthere]

He really didn’t want to land at the Gold Coast! Big thumbs up to the controller. :ok:

[Arnold E]

I remember a few years ago when I was still working as a LAME I asked one of our customers if I could do a night freight run with him to Melbourne and back in a twin Caravan, for no other reason than I thought it might be interesting to see how the other half lived, the excuse was I wanted to check the operation of the autopilot. Anyway on the way back at about 3 in the morning I glanced across at the driver and noted eyes closed and head on chest, I wondered at the time whether he was just more relaxed because he knew I was there or whether this was a regular occurrence.

[Duck Pilot]

Good outcome, I hope the pilot recovers and retains his/her medical and gets back in the air again quickly, without getting crucified by the authorities.

[Storm Girl]

Could somebody who knows about these things, please give me a ballpark figure of the flight time in this aircraft from Cairns to Redcliffe.
Thanks.

[Ironpot]

Could somebody who knows about these things, please give me a ballpark figure of the flight time in this aircraft from Cairns to Redcliffe.
Thanks.
273 minutes

[Capt Fathom]

273 minutes

Yep! That would put me to sleep!

[ACMS]

Wow, good outcome to all concerned.........

[halas]

@machtuk "40 years diving planes"? 🤣

@compressor stall I was working NSW Air Ambulance when this happened. Still friends with he nurse in the event. Your recollection is correct.

halas

[AmarokGTI]

Is anyone familiar with the aircraft type able to give insight into what the warning / caution noises heard toward the end of the recording were? I’m not familiar with any of the Cessna 208 warning sounds.

[73qanda]

Well done to everyone involved. The professionalism of everyone involved makes me want to get back in the air again.

[machtuk]

@machtuk "40 years diving planes"? 🤣

@compressor stall I was working NSW Air Ambulance when this happened. Still friends with he nurse in the event. Your recollection is correct.

halas

yep driving planes -) still doing it actually but under my terms -)

[Capt Fathom]

I think the emphasis was on ‘diving’ aeroplanes!

[RatsoreA]

Is anyone familiar with the aircraft type able to give insight into what the warning / caution noises heard toward the end of the recording were? I’m not familiar with any of the Cessna 208 warning sounds.

The G1000 equipped versions have an alarm for fuel tanks selected to off, fire, and low fuel plus some other annunciations from the display.

By that time, I’m guessing it was the low fuel which start chiming at below 200 pounds per tank.

[pineteam]

Oxygen issue at FL110? Anyone knows if that was really the issue? I would be surprised as In Zambia it was common practice to cruise up to FL130 with no oxygen for the sake to fly above the haze layer during my time there. Never heard of any issue.

[Blueskymine]

Four hours is a long time at 11k if you’re not on oxygen. Especially at night.

I remember 10k in a chieftain for 90 mins was a struggle in the day to stay awake.

[pineteam]

4 hours! Wow! I missed that bit! I guess you’re right. Happy it ended well. = )

[TriJetFlying]

Four hours is a long time at 11k if you’re not on oxygen. Especially at night.

I remember 10k in a chieftain for 90 mins was a struggle in the day to stay awake.

oh please...

[VariablePitchP]

Four hours is a long time at 11k if you’re not on oxygen. Especially at night.

I remember 10k in a chieftain for 90 mins was a struggle in the day to stay awake.

I’ve spent half my life at 8,000 it feels like, can’t imagine the extra 2,000 taking me from totally fine to unconscious.

[The Banjo]

Actially it was a long haul airline pilot who fainted when he realised there was no crewrest at top of climb.

[Checklist Charlie]

VariablePitchP (https://www.pprune.org/members/462532-variablepitchp) muses

I’ve spent half my life at 8,000 it feels like, can’t imagine the extra 2,000 taking me from totally fine to unconscious.

Then you had better believe it. We were always on O2 above 5000 at night.

CC

[chimbu warrior]

Hypoxia affects different people in different ways, and is dependent on age, physical condition, smoker/non-smoker, fatigue and a multitude of other factors.

I have no idea what caused this event, but don't assume that just because you read that a time of useful conciousness at X altitude is Y minutes that you won't suffer the effects until higher or later.

[spektrum]

By the sounds of it some of you are so unfit/unhealthy I question if you should be flying or not.

[udaman]

That controller did a great job, going to drink some Claws and light some fireworks in his name tomorrow 👍🏻👍🏻

[Checklist Charlie]

spektrum (https://www.pprune.org/members/487493-spektrum), I trust you are not questioning my ability, fitness or health. I followed my employers instructions regarding the use of O2 above 5000 at night as did my colleagues.

Perhaps as it appears as though you do not understand some aspects of the human body that you should avail yourself of a visit to a facility with a Hypobaric Chamber and undertake their course.

I believe you will not only be surprised by the experience but you may also be enlightened.

CC

[jonkster]

I always understood night vision starts to be impaired above 5000' without supplemental oxygen.

[arketip]

I trust you are not questioning my ability, fitness or health. I followed my employers instructions regarding the use of O2 above 5000 at night as did my colleagues.

Perhaps as it appears as though you do not understand some aspects of the human body that you should avail yourself of a visit to a facility with a Hypobaric Chamber and undertake their course.

I believe you will not only be surprised by the experience but you may also be enlightened.

CC

How do airline pilots survive?

[ACMS]

I did quite a few long flights at 10,000’ day and night in a light a/c and never had any issues.........

Above 5,000’ at night seems a bit excessive. You’d better not fly long haul in a typical wide body jet then.....

[compressor stall]

Above 5,000’ at night seems a bit excessive. You’d better not fly long haul in a typical wide body jet then.....
Agreed. FAR require cabin altitude of less than 8000' for transport cat aircraft. At we're sitting up that high for many many hours.

But, if your employer says wear gas when lower. why not.

[Ixixly]

oh please...

Oh Please what? What did your HF training teach you about hypoxia for a smoker? I remember mine telling me they'd start getting affected above 5,000 compared to a non-smoker and that's just an example.

[jack-daw]

It just proves again how great our emergency services are and how quickly they are deployed in any event like this. A lot of pilots get comfort from knowing that if something goes wrong Australia will throw out every available resource to assist you. Well done guys !
Not sure which emergency services you are referring to. ATC, whilst not an emergency service, did their job well, and flydoc was already airborne for other reasons.
Anybody else involved?

[machtuk]

Not sure which emergency services you are referring to. ATC, whilst not an emergency service, did their job well, and flydoc was already airborne for other reasons.
Anybody else involved?

have to agree. Whilst the Flydoc driver was shadowing the guy that made no real difference, ATC could only transmit in the hope he heard which Fortunetly he did in the end and then give the guy directions as well as encourage him to land. Emerg services only came into play once he landed. Good outcome -)

[TriJetFlying]

Oh Please what? What did your HF training teach you about hypoxia for a smoker? I remember mine telling me they'd start getting affected above 5,000 compared to a non-smoker and that's just an example.

Lots actually, amongst many other training courses. If being at F110 actually caused this issue, I’d have to think the pilot in question is incredibly unfit... I wish the person well..

oh and Ixixly, forgot to mention.. My initial post was a reply to BlueSky’s dramatic post. Not so much to the incident.

[Youwanna]

Sio am I right in concluding this guy went through BNE primary control zone unplanned and without communication without issue (as he intended to end his journey just to the north of BNE) and somehow that didn't raise any red flags but after he had flown another 120km and exceeded his SAR time ATC started to get concerned?

No, you are not right to conclude that.
The aircraft was originally under the control of ATC and on radar before losing comms well north of Brisbane. That is when the red flags were raised (and presumably a SAR phase initiated).

[cogwheel]

If my memory serves me ok, I recall the RAAF at PCK back in the Winjeel days used O2 at night above 3000ft.
I believe the training these days in this subject is somewhat lacking.

[KyleJR]

No, you are not right to conclude that.
The aircraft was originally under the control of ATC and on radar before losing comms well north of Brisbane. That is when the red flags were raised (and presumably a SAR phase initiated).
Agree. The first call I heard from BNE Approach or Centre was about 0630UTC on approach to BNE, I started reviewing from 0600. FDS was airborne about 0700 by coincidence as he was overflying BNE and intercept somewhere around 0730, landed 0800.

[Squawk7700]

You might be amazed at what you’ll learn by purchasing one of these...

https://www.mydeal.com.au/fingertip-pulse-oximeter?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIt_WLtdq16gIVEiQrCh3cEQg6EAQYASABE gLU0_D_BwE

[Bodie1]

I dunno whether that's going to tell you what you need Squawk. There wasn't much difference between what I was reading at F140 to 10,000ft to 5000ft in the thing I used to fly. And anyway, that thing isn't going to wake you up when you're that fatigued or when you may have suffered a medical event.

[Lead Balloon]

If my memory serves me ok, I recall the RAAF at PCK back in the Winjeel days used O2 at night above 3000ft.
I believe the training these days in this subject is somewhat lacking.The 3,000’ oxy was probably in preparation for those pilots transitioning to trained killer status with what would be now be impressive ‘Darth Vader’ breathing.

In the real world, a squillion pilots and passengers used to/will soon again fly around for many hours at a cabin altitude of about 8,000’.

[Blueskymine]

I’ve spent half my life at 8,000 it feels like, can’t imagine the extra 2,000 taking me from totally fine to unconscious.

Did I say that?

I said 90 mins at 10,000 feet in the middle of the day used to make me very tired. Sometimes I’d be doing everything I could to stay awake. I was in my early 20s and very fit. Sweating, chucking bags, earlies, lates etc. it all adds up.

So 4 hours at night at FL110 would be a right pain. Especially as you age.

Yes there is a big difference between 8000ft and 10,000 feet. Which is why you need oxygen over 10,000 feet.

It’s also why so many airline Pilots fall asleep on the flight deck at high cabin alts during the circadian lows - and suffer immense fatigue doing long haul
flying. It’s also why the 787 is so good to fly.

[gerry111]

The 3,000’ oxy was probably in preparation for those pilots transitioning to trained killer status with what would be now be impressive ‘Darth Vader’ breathing.
Perhaps it was a carry over from prior to 1947 at PCK, when the RAAF still had their Air Traffic Controller School there? The practice of Winjeel 3000' oxy being to give the student controllers experience at understanding 'Fighter Pilot Talk'.

[GAnoob]

VASAviation has done a video on it- I can't link to it due to post count.

[Squawk7700]

VASAviation has done a video on it- I can't link to it due to post count.

They have done a good job of it.

https://youtu.be/QyFVeLySv6M

[Mumbai Merlin]

VH-DQP

Entered on Australian register 7th July 2020
Cancelled from Australian register 13th July 2020
Sold to USA

[Cloudee]

Report out. It took the ATSB almost a year to come out with this.What the ATSB foundThe ATSB found that the pilot was likely experiencing a level of fatigue due to inadequate sleep the night before and leading up to the incident. Further, operating at 11,000 ft with intermittent use of supplemental oxygen likely resulted in the pilot experiencing mild hypoxia. This likely exacerbated the pilot’s existing fatigue and contributed to the pilot falling asleep.

Full report here https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5779713/ao-2020-032-final.pdf

[Runaway Gun]

I've done many runs in the chambers, and experienced Hypoxia in various scenarios.

Two things I learned. One is that I personally feel really good when hypoxic. Like, really really good. Yet the video showed I was pretty much stoned.
The second being that the effects of hypoxia during night flying weren't really noticed - until I put on the oxygen mask and noticed that the lights got brighter and stopped moving around (they were glued into the wall).

So for everyone without training to say that they never had any issues flying at altitude, then they aren't the best judge of their own performance.

[Duck Pilot]

Some of the findings generated from this report should give CASA a lot of factual information with regards to reality, opposed to scientific theories they have enforced on industry with regards to the new 48.1 regulations.

[outnabout]

Interesting to note that oxygen on private flights in the USA is not required below 12500 AMSL.

I wonder why Australian air is much thinner / Australian pilots so inferior that oxygen is required at 10000.

[Checkboard]

Because there are no solid lines in the sky, where one side of the line you are OK and the other you aren't - and the highest mountain in Australia is only 7,000 ft AMSL, so it's not onerous to require O2 at 10,000'

[Lead Balloon]

Some strange logic there, Checkboard...

[megan]

Interesting to note that oxygen on private flights in the USA is not required below 12500 AMSLIt's really thin over there, military types had to use O2 above 10,000 day, 5,000 night, maybe all we twenty something year olds were just so unfit, though during instrument training some didn't wear the uncomfortable oxygen mask when going up to 20,000, perhaps we were fit after all, not recommended. What the average human can expect.

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Hypoxia_(OGHFA_BN)#Partial_Compensatory_Stage.2C_3.2C500_-_6.2C000_m_.2811.2C400_-_20.2C000_ft.29

[Lead Balloon]

Isn’t the usual cabin altitude for a passenger jet around 8,000’? That includes the chunk that encapsulates the pilots.

What’s the point in comparing civvy pilots in civvy operations with military pilots in military operations? If you reckon the latter operations bear much semblance with the former, maybe a reality check is required.

[Duck Pilot]

Having flown around PNG above 10,000 for long periods of time and not being on the Mickie gas, it never effected me. Even had an ex Chief Pilot who done a check flight on me at 18,000 ft without oxygen in a Twin Otter to determine if I was susceptible to hypoxia! I passed the test😀

[Capt Fathom]

Even had an ex Chief Pilot who done a check flight on me at 18,000 ft without oxygen in a Twin Otter to determine if I was susceptible to hypoxia! I passed the test

What sort of check flight was that? Was the ex Chief Pilot on oxygen?

[Duck Pilot]

The Chief Pilot was a unique character and he is no longer alive. PNG is the land of the unexpected….

It’s also not uncommon for unpressurised aircraft to be operating at 14,000ft or above in PNG due to the high LSALTs and grid heights throughout the highlands. All the aircraft that I flew had supplemental oxygen and I carried my own mask, however most pilots seldom used the oxygen as they weren’t above 10,000ft for long periods of time.

Unique country, with its unique operational challenges that most pilots wouldn’t understand if they hadn’t flown in the country.

[megan]

What’s the point in comparing civvy pilots in civvy operations with military pilots in military operations? If you reckon the latter operations bear much semblance with the former, maybe a reality check is requiredLeadie, it may have escaped your notice that both operate in the same medium and are subject to the same laws of physics, perhaps a reality check is required.

One ex PNG MAF chap told the story of being trapped in a valley in a C206 and having to climb to 20,000 to get on top, no idea of a 206's capabilities, perhaps too many pints.

[Checkboard]

Service ceiling on the Turbo Stationaire is 26,000' ....

[Pinky the pilot]

It’s also not uncommon for unpressurised aircraft to be operating at 14,000ft or above in PNG due to the high LSALTs and grid heights throughout the highlands.

Certainly was the case in my all-too-short time in that place!

Still remember sitting at 16,500' in an A mod C402 for about two and a half hours on one trip. The a/c did have an O2 bottle but it was empty! And I had previously asked for it to be refilled.

Landed back at Moresby with an 'altitude headache'.

[Lead Balloon]

Leadie, it may have escaped your notice that both operate in the same medium and are subject to the same laws of physics, perhaps a reality check is required. ...Although each activity occurred in the same medium and was subject to the same laws of physics, my first hand experience is that the pilot who flew me through the sound barrier and gave me tunnel vision on the way to 9 ‘gs’ in various air-to-air combat manoeuvres in a RAAF fighter jet was under a little more ‘stress and strain’ than the bloke sipping coffee at the front of my Generic Airways Flight 737.

[rcoight]

One ex PNG MAF chap told the story of being trapped in a valley in a C206 and having to climb to 20,000 to get on top, no idea of a 206's capabilities, perhaps too many pints.

Genuine question: why did he have to climb to 20,000 when the highest mountain in PNG is less than 15,000? Do you mean to get on top of clouds?

[megan]

my first hand experience is that the pilot who flew me through the sound barrier and gave me tunnel vision on the way to 9 ‘gs’ in various air-to-air combat manoeuvres in a RAAF fighter jet was under a little more ‘stress and strain’ than the bloke sipping coffee at the front of my Generic Airways Flight 7379 g? the limit is 7.5. Your F-18 chap had a way to go to approach the stress and strain of we Huey chaps who never got above 1,500', or faster than 100 knots, being shot up in a ambush suffering 75% casualties to the troops as they disembarked, having a crewman rolling around on the deck screaming from being shot in the back and neck and being shot yourself in the back between the shoulder blades, praise be to armored seats. Mind you, there are many, many airline crews who know full well the meaning of stress and strain, as do peddlers of any aviation contrivance.Do you mean to get on top of cloudsYes, sorry if you didn't understand the terminology, as I said.having to climb to 20,000 to get on top

[rcoight]

Yes, sorry if you didn't understand the terminology, as I said.

Thanks. I understand the terminology very well. Hence my question.