Farewell Events

[f1yhigh]

For the final QF 747, any ideas what this will look like? Will it be flying to different ports before making her farewell? Sad times, but at least she's getting a farewell.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Straight to the desert I’d say. I don’t think QF have the cash to splash flying an empty plane around the country for the sake of a farewell.

[Turnleft080]

Turn it into a fire tanker we need them.

[growahead]

If they were creative, they could probably get a plane load of paying passengers for the flight.

[OhSpareMe]

How about they sell it and divvy up the cash to those on stand down? As a gesture of goodwill. You know, like QANTAS often does.😂😂😂😂

[34R]

Straight to the desert I’d say. I don’t think QF have the cash to splash flying an empty plane around the country for the sake of a farewell.

Who is to say it would be empty?

[f1yhigh]

Who is to say it would be empty?

Possibly staff onboard? Wouldn't be far fetched.

[Chad Gates]

Buy your own coffee at gate 8 coffee shop, while you wave goodbye as it’s towed passed on its way to SIT? They will paused prior to the apron, for effect. Invite only of course. AJ will make a speech I’d imagine.

[ruprecht]

It’s just a jet. Many jobs are at stake.

Send it to the graveyard and don’t spend one more cent than necessary.

[Keg]

They will have already done the sums on how much the PR is worth to them... particularly if it distracts from all the people getting the boot.

[Angle of Attack]

Put remote control on it and crash it into a desert just like the 707 years ago, that would be the ultimate send off, remove QF livery of course before the crash flight.

[ozbiggles]

Sure, put people on it but make sure they pay for the 14 days quarantine on return. A few people here seem to forget why they are being retired early.

[Chairmans Lounge]

It’s just a jet. Many jobs are at stake.

Send it to the graveyard and don’t spend one more cent than necessary.

I’d say the B747’s place in our fleet earns her the respect of more than ‘just a jet’.

There’s one very well overpaid job that’s safe for another 3 years. How about giving a little back to farewell Qantas’s true ‘Queen’.

[ozbiggles]

Qantas are sacking 6000 people. It is sad to see her go but get a grip.

[ruprecht]

I’d say the B747’s place in our fleet earns her the respect of more than ‘just a jet’.

There’s one very well overpaid job that’s safe for another 3 years. How about giving a little back to farewell Qantas’s true ‘Queen’.
Nope.

I’m all for sentimentality, just not when we’re in deep financial sh!t with jobs on the line.

[Blueskymine]

I’m not getting involved in petty politics, but personally I think Alan is doing the best he can in the current circumstances. He’s also quite a reasonable guy in person.

Wouldn’t it be a wonderful gesture from him if he paid for the farewell of the 747 out if his own pocket? He certainly can afford it.

It would also bring those back to his cause that he lost sometime ago.

In fact imagine if the entire executive team chipped in?

[f1yhigh]

I definitely have a grip on the current reality all Qantas staff face, this post isn't meant to take away any grievances QF staff are facing. Merely wanting to know what the go is or may be with the farewell of the 747. No need for ad hominems.

[Turnleft080]

Turn it into a fire tanker we need them.

Actually I take that back. Don't send it to Mojave desert. Leave it in this country. Do what KLM and Lufthansa have done.
Put the thing in a park on concrete blocks so the kids of tomorrow can view the shear size of it. I know their is
one at Longreach and Wollongong. SYD/BNE/MEL can fight for it. In 5 years time say, everyone will be saying we should of kept it.
Treat it like the British/French treat their concords. What say you AJ?

[MelbourneFlyer]

I would have expected SYD-MEL and SYD-BNE would both be candidates but probably not a lot of confidence about MEL now given the sudden Covid-19 spike. Maybe they'll be more of a scenic flight, spend some lazy time looping over the harbour, maybe the BNE flight could swing over Longreach?

[Ascend Charlie]

Do it like Dick Smith once did:
Use the aircraft named Kingsford Smith
Leave from Kingsford Smith airport
Everybody on board is named Smith
Fly over every town in Oz that has Smith in its name.

[chazwazza14]

Do it like Dick Smith once did:
Use the aircraft named Kingsford Smith
Leave from Kingsford Smith airport
Everybody on board is named Smith
Fly over every town in Oz that has Smith in its name.

What a waste of time and money, even at the best of times, let alone now.
Let’s be realistic, a staff and media day in the hangar, then fly over the bridge as it departs for LAX. Anything more is a waste, it’s just a jet.

[CharlotteAnderson]

QF did a domestic tour which concluded in Feb this year. I was one of the passengers on the SY - ML leg. Quite a lot of fun and lovely to say farewell to The Queen.

[Ken Borough]

Use the aircraft named Kingsford Smith

Was the aircraft temporarily renamed for the flight?

[MelbourneFlyer]

And here we go! Qantas to run Boeing 747 'farewell flights' from Sydney, Canberra and Brisbane in mid-July

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-boeing-747-retirement-flights-for-sydney-brisbane-canberra

[Going Boeing]

There's an obvious reason why Melbourne isn't included, it's a shame as there would be a lot of enthusiasts there who won't get an opportunity to farewell the true "Queen of the Skies".

[f1yhigh]

it’s just a jet.

I hope I never become this cynical about the things I love

[34R]

Every flight four crew!

Every flight four DIFFERENT crew! (Tongue firmly planted in cheek)

[Boe787]

With fares like that it should cover costs,and as Keg mentioned, good pr, why not!

[Green.Dot]

How about a fly over of Sydney Harbour, with some quality footage taken from a chopper, go via Longreach, a couple low fly overs of the birthplace of QF and then continue on in the same flight direct to the desert? Heaps of spare gas for that if they do it without much of a payload.

Surely that’s a good compromise and a fitting farewell. She will be missed 😢

[wheels_down]

Are Virgin not doing one also? I heard they are flying a formation flight over Borghetti’ estate. F100, A330, 777, ATR, 320 that is going to be quite a show.

Apologies if if I missed a fleet type. Can’t remember them all anymore.

[Turnleft080]

Wheels_down we wouldn't be flying over it we would be bombing it.

[f1yhigh]

Are Virgin not doing one also? I heard they are flying a formation flight over Borghetti’ estate. F100, A330, 777, ATR, 320 that is going to be quite a show.

Apologies if if I missed a fleet type. Can’t remember them all anymore.

Gave me a chuckle!

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Are Virgin not doing one also? I heard they are flying a formation flight over Borghetti’ estate. F100, A330, 777, ATR, 320 that is going to be quite a show.

Apologies if if I missed a fleet type. Can’t remember them all anymore.

maybe a Tiger 737 and/or A320 for good measure

[Capt Fathom]

Are there any crew still current to fly the ‘farewell flights?’

[stiffwing]

Well,
’certain” crew, yes.
line crew? Maybe not..
after all, only supervisories are of the quality required for such an arduous exercise.
hopefully #1 will be stood up for the disposal flight

[Blueskymine]

Are Virgin not doing one also? I heard they are flying a formation flight over Borghetti’ estate. F100, A330, 777, ATR, 320 that is going to be quite a show.

Apologies if if I missed a fleet type. Can’t remember them all anymore.

Getting a 190 and the Fokker 50 would be a testament to the fleet diversity too.

[CSTGuy]

Every flight four crew!
mmm.....is there enough female 747 crew for such flights? The PR, HR, LGBTIQ & PC protagonists would be insisting on it!

[Turnleft080]

To those that love to make fun of 11000 (VA & QF) jobs about to go redundant I was going to write something nasty to you
but I'm not going to lower myself to your level.

[blubak]

There's an obvious reason why Melbourne isn't included, it's a shame as there would be a lot of enthusiasts there who won't get an opportunity to farewell the true "Queen of the Skies".
How ironic that theres no issues running 737's full of passengers in & out of melbourne every day.
I guess the hepa filters are better in the 737😷

[Keg]

hopefully #1 will be stood up for the disposal flight

He is. He was informed a couple of weeks ago.

Not sure of F/O. Know of one of the S/Os.

[dragon man]

He is. He was informed a couple of weeks ago.

Not sure of F/O. Know of one of the S/Os.

He was only stood up because of the intervention of the CEO

[benttrees]

Which CEO ?

[C441]

The first 380 flight to Victorville has 2 Capt and 2 F/Os although one of each is supervisory and they are also taking a second jet from LAX to VCV a few days later.
Would make sense to have a 'heavy' crew (2 & 2 vs 1,1,2) to cover various contingencies that may arise in these unusual times and and unusual ops.

[Keg]

He was only stood up because of the intervention of the CEO

You’re suggesting that either Tino or Andrew is involved in the selection of crew for the final flights? Really? I’d be stunned if either of them gave more than even a passing thought to who operated them. Perhaps they may consider to ask. Beyond that? And then you’d suggest that Flight Ops was originally going to go for someone else and that was only changed because of the intervention of one of the CEOs?

Far from ‘intervention’ the decision was made in Flight Ops. Input by Flight Training and SIT Base Ops and then approved by HOBO and the Chief Pilot.

There are actually two ‘final’ sectors. One leaving Australia for LAX and then one leaving LAX for MHV. I’m not full bottle on whether Captain Quinn or Captain Cameron is operating the flight ex SYD. Perhaps they’ll toss a coin. Either way I’m sure both will be pleased with their respective places in Qantas history.

[dragon man]

You are wrong and it was higher .

[normanton]

Someone obviously had a whinge and complained then.

[Keg]

So you’re suggesting Alan Joyce specified that Captain Cameron was to be doing the last flight dragon man?

[Bodie1]

Ah well, as a pilot who lost his job due covid, instantly, with a few days notice and no financial compensation and not after a few months of jobkeeper, I have absolutely no problem with a company spending a bit of coin on a farewell to the greatest transport aircraft to have ever flown. Will we ever see an aircraft of the 747's beauty ever again? Doubt it.

Farewell 747, will miss ya. In an overseas airport, seeing one of you parked at a gate always brought a smile to my face.

[Turnleft080]

Ah well, as a pilot who lost his job due covid, instantly, with a few days notice and no financial compensation and not after a few months of jobkeeper, I have absolutely no problem with a company spending a bit of coin on a farewell to the greatest transport aircraft to have ever flown. Will we ever see an aircraft of the 747's beauty ever again? Doubt it.

Farewell 747, will miss ya. In an overseas airport, seeing one of you parked at a gate always brought a smile to my face.

Felt the same sentiment when the last Boeing 707-338 stopped making noise.

[Turnleft080]

Farewell 747, will miss ya. In an overseas airport, seeing one of you parked at a gate always brought a smile to my face.[/QUOTE]

Felt the same sentiment when the last Boeing 707-338 stopped making noise.

[f1yhigh]

Ah well, as a pilot who lost his job due covid, instantly, with a few days notice and no financial compensation and not after a few months of jobkeeper, I have absolutely no problem with a company spending a bit of coin on a farewell to the greatest transport aircraft to have ever flown. Will we ever see an aircraft of the 747's beauty ever again? Doubt it.

Farewell 747, will miss ya. In an overseas airport, seeing one of you parked at a gate always brought a smile to my face.

Thank you. And sorry for your situation, I wish you and many others the best.

[normanton]

So you’re suggesting Alan Joyce specified that Captain Cameron was to be doing the last flight dragon man?

Come on dragon man. Back it up. Don't go quiet now.

[Bodie1]

Thank you. And sorry for your situation, I wish you and many others the best.

Thanks for your thoughts. Appreciated. But I'm good, is what it is, bigger picture and all.

The 747 deserves a grand send off, regardless of this **** show of a situation. It is an enormous part of aviation history.

[dragon man]

Come on dragon man. Back it up. Don't go quiet now.

Ive said all I’m saying it’s correct.

[Anders Nilsson]

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/292254/qantas-schedules-747-farewell-flights-in-mid-july-2020-747-4q72-operations/

Qantas Airways in mid-July 2020 plans to operate 3 Boeing 747 farewell flights, scheduled to operate from Sydney on 13JUL20, Brisbane on 15JUL20 and Canberra on 17JUL20. Configuration is J58W36Y270, however Premium Economy Class is not open for sale, at time this post goes to press.

Planned operational schedule based on GDS listing as follows. In the GDS, the airline lists arrival point as ZZF.

QF747 SYD1015 – 1130ZZF 744 13JUL20
QF747 BNE1015 – 1130ZZF 744 15JUL20
QF747 CBR1200 – 1315ZZF 744 17JUL20

[Keg]

Premium economy is set aside for a staff lottery.

[Keg]

Ive said all I’m saying it’s correct.

Lol. I’ve now spoken to two different sources confirming the recommendation and decisions regarding crew for both the final disposal flights as well as the joy flight charters all came from, and were approved in Flight Ops.

That also includes that it was Flight Ops who sent the request to ‘corporate’ to delay the originally planned 29/30 June disposal flight for a few weeks to allow these sorts of farewell flights and commemorations in the hangars. Of course this specific recommendation needed CEO approval and so perhaps that’s where your ‘CEO intervention’ comes from.

[Streuth]

Lol.........Of course this specific recommendation needed CEO approval and so perhaps that’s where your ‘CEO intervention’ comes from.

😄😄😂😂 Sorry wrong again.

[Troo believer]

The Jumbo is worthy of the highest respect and accolades from all sections of society as an engineering and airline marvel. It transformed fundamentally how the World travelled changing the economics of flying enabling Joe Public to take a holiday over seas. It’s an icon that will never be surpassed. Boeing bet the whole company on the 747. From a paper aeroplane to flying in less than 2 years makes current designs pail into insignificance. All hail the 747. Queen of the skies. I’m so privileged to have flown her.

[f1yhigh]

The Jumbo is worthy of the highest respect and accolades from all sections of society as an engineering and airline marvel. It transformed fundamentally how the World travelled changing the economics of flying enabling Joe Public to take a holiday over seas. It’s an icon that will never be surpassed. Boeing bet the whole company on the 747. From a paper aeroplane to flying in less than 2 years makes current designs pail into insignificance. All hail the 747. Queen of the skies. I’m so privileged to have flown her.

Well said! I'm privileged to have flown on her, those fortunate enough to fly her like yourself are truly privileged.

[Fris B. Fairing]

Apparently these flights sold out within minutes. My attempt began immediately after the flights went live and just as I reached the payment page the system shat itself. Pity as I was on the very first 74 out of Brisbane in 1971 and I was hoping to collect the other bookend.

[dragon man]

Apparently these flights sold out within minutes. My attempt began immediately after the flights went live and just as I reached the payment page the system shat itself. Pity as I was on the very first 74 out of Brisbane in 1971 and I was hoping to collect the other bookend.

Very sad, this has been organised in a panic as nothing was planned and now to be honest it’s to little to,late.

[Keg]

Agreed. They could have run another half dozen farewell flights and likely filled them all!

[Qantas 787]

Agreed. They could have run another half dozen farewell flights and likely filled them all!

Or operate the positioning flights with passengers. I know It is easier without passengers but punters are keen to pay whatever the airline wants to charge.

[Peter Fanelli]

Put remote control on it and crash it into a desert just like the 707 years ago, that would be the ultimate send off, remove QF livery of course before the crash flight.

Can we fill it with politicians first?

[stiffwing]

As expected..
one crew member willl be doing all 4 flights..
“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.“

[blow.n.gasket]

Let me guess , someone who rhymes with “weasel“ and is over 600 numbers junior to the most junior legitimate 747 Captain.
Just proves it’s not what you know but who you know , even if their patron got caught out
“ In flagrante delicto “and has been “ moved on “ !

[stiffwing]

Yep, thats the one. I believe he has photos.😜
I wonder where his seniority number will find him after the RIN.
Certainly not on the east coast?

[blow.n.gasket]

Prior to Covid , a 737 Command in Adelaide !
Post Covid ? , a safe zone cubical on QCC 3 ?
And the milleniums think seniority is an anachronism !

[Keg]

Anyone who has done a disposal flight understands full well the bun fight it can be behind the scenes. I suspect these farewell events are likely to be similar. It makes good sense to have Captain Weaver there to deal with that sort of stuff and leave Captains Bracewell, Buddery and Kelly (and their respective crews) to do the actual flying.

Prior to Covid , a 737 Command in Adelaide !

Wrong. Are you sure you know his seniority number? You were already wrong with the ‘600’ figure. Or are you that senior that you don’t know what is possible with a seniority number in the mid 600s?
​​​​​​
I’ve been lucky enough to know Captain Weaver since 1991. He’s a mate and a friend. Anything he has achieved in Qantas he’s done on the back of doing the grunt work (mostly behind the scenes) and being recognised for that by the Chief Pilot. He didn’t ask to go to the 747 but when you accept the King’s coin, you go where the King tells you to go. I doubt any posters here would have knocked the gig back had they been in the same position. Then again, few posters here would be prepared to do the grunt work that leads to some of the things the Chief Pilot has asked him to do. If you want to gripe about him perhaps talk to the Captain Tobiano given he’s the one that has approved everything Captain Weaver has done for the last 6+ years.

[Going Boeing]

hopefully #1 will be stood up for the disposal flight

Since it's the final flight for the aircraft, I wonder if Numero Uno will take it supersonic - AGAIN.

[stiffwing]

C’mon Keg...
1. “He didn’t ask to go to the 747”.
So he didn’t apply for the job? What, he was rung up one day and someone pleaded with him to do it? Of course he asked for the job, aka “applied” for it.
2. Just to clarify, are there NO other 747 supervisories able to conduct these flights, based on the “sharing” concept that the company so vigorously promotes?.

[Keg]

Well obviously you don’t know the story then stiffwing.

No. He didn’t apply for the 747 tech job. It wasn’t advertised. He’d applied for and had been doing the tech job on the 767 for a few years. He was told when the 767 was retiring that the Chief Pilot wanted him on the 747. Captain Weaver said ‘are you sure’ because he was very aware that he was well junior. He also suggested the 737. He was told ‘yes, we’re sure’. I’m not sure how or when he went from 747 Tech to Head of Boeing Fleet. That was a few years ago though.

I know that Captain Weaver has NOT done all of the 747 disposal flights. Captain Gardiner has done some also. I’m not sure whether Captain Weaver has operated his flights as PIC. Normally someone else operated to LAX and Captain Weaver was along for the ride as a S/O? Perhaps he’s operated PIC LAX-MHV or LAX-VCV sector? I think they used to have a requirement of ‘previous experience’ to operate a ferry flight into there. I know on some 767 disposals flights he wasn’t PIC though he was in a control seat. To be honest I haven’t kept up to speed on the specifics of each flight- never had a need to. Certainly on some of the 767 disposal flights he was in the control seat but not the PIC or PF for many of the sectors into VCV.

As to other 747 ‘supervisories’, who are they at the moment? I think Captain Weaver is the only one. A decision not of his making also. In terms of ‘sharing’ there are three Captains allocated to command these farewell flights ex SYD, CBR and BNE. Captain Weaver is not one of them. Captain Weaver is not commanding the flight ex SYD to LAX. My understanding is that he is not commanding the flight ex LAX to VCV (or Mojave... not sure where it’s going).

All of this information is available through Base Ops if one asks which is where I found out about the SYD-LAX flights.

[blow.n.gasket]

Keg defending the indefensible is most heroic , your loyalty is commendable !
Thanks for the “outing “ .

When your hero has a present seniority # of 652 , at the time of the promotion to the 747 he would have had a much higher seniority # and I believe it was mentioned that it would have just garnered a 737 command in Adelaide with a gap of some 600 odd #’s less than the most junior 747 Captain at the time was mentioned , according to a reliable source on CoM !
His 747 Managerial Patron , some 150 #’s junior to the most junior Captain then , was also mentioned in dispatches at the time !
Post Covid , who knows , with a RIN , Perth Capt 787 ? , 737 Captain base of choice ? Assuming any training ?
This “ promotion” with relatively to his Seniority # at the time was discussed ad infinitum at CoM and where he should end up if he was to lose his Managerial position was discussed !
A most animated discussion that was eventually made “Safe” !
Consideration must also be made for his now departed Patron !
As I said , it’s not what you know , but who you smooze !
My impressions have not been changed subsequently !
Your champion is not a patch on who he “ replaced “.
Good luck with your hero worshipping!
Many compatriots would not agree with your position !

[Keg]

Defending the indefensible? The company has moved management Captains around however they liked since before I joined 25+ years ago. Owen wasn’t the first. He’s certainly not the last with a few since then. If his move to the 747 took up much more than 2 minutes at COM then what a complete waste of everyone’s time.

Moving the goal posts back to 2015 as ‘pre Covid’? Clutching at straws a bit aren’t we?

Owen is senior to me. I’m a widebody Captain (in multiple senses) in Sydney. So if Owen wasn’t in a management position then pre COVID he would have been an A330 Captain in Sydney. That’s a long way removed from your alleged 737 ADL command.

Post Covid? Who knows. I suspect there will be a shuffling of deck chairs in Flight Ops given the need to tighten belts. Maybe he’ll get a guernsey in whatever the framework turns out to be, maybe not. If not then post RIN he’ll go where his seniority permits him the same as everyone else. If he does get a guernsey then good on him and he’ll go to where they want him to go.

I don’t know why Owen was offered the 747 tech job. Have you tried asking Mike or Dick? They may tell you. Whether he was a patch on his predecessor I don’t know. Clearly the Chief Pilot wanted him in the role given he had to approve it regardless of whatever influence you think a ‘patron’ may have had. (Good word though, don’t hear it often enough these days. Not sure it’s the right one for this example but I still like the word).

It’s funny that pointing out facts is seen as ‘hero worshipping’.

Many of my compatriots don’t agree with me on many things. That’s rarely worried me in the past. It’s not going to start worrying me now.

[blow.n.gasket]

Keg , when did your mate get his Managerial guernsey ?
Here’s a hint ,it was pre Covid , way, way , pre Covid .
At the time what was Owen’s seniority and what would have that seniority # given him promotional wise outside of a Managerial appointment ?
What was the seniority of the most Junior 747 Captain at the time of Owen ‘s 747 appointment ?
That was the timeframe reference the ADL 737 Command .
Which EBA was this ?
When did Managerial perogitive get slipped in ?
I am assured that more than 2 minutes was spent by CoM ruminating on this promotion at the time .
You are correct , it will be interesting to see where your mate , sans patron , ends up post Covid reshuffle !
Now / Post Covid , it appears PERTH 787 Command .
Whats the bet that won’t happen !
Surely lightning doesn’t strike twice ?
Where as most of us mere mortals are flat out just worrying about our own relative pole position come post Covid / reduction in numbers !
Good luck on your Widebody Command !
Who knows when you may get to exercise it again , if you ever do !
Due to Post Covid , upcoming GFC/ Worldwide Depression that is going to be secular in its scope !


addendum : my source has clarified the time line of this appointment and is adamant that at the time of the appointment due to the RIN occurring on the 767 our intrepid “ferry expert” would have had the Seniority to achieve a 737 Command in ADL post RIN ,yet ended up on the 747 in Command and the 600 seniority numbers shy of that position was not too far off the mark.
Hope that clarifies why there was/is angst over this appointment.
Also believe the change to the interpretation over Managements prerogative to appoint and to which positions it applied was challenged and opened to all Managerial appointments not just high level Management such as Chief Pilot , Deputy Chief Pilot etc that was the past practice and principle agreement/interpretation prior.

[Ex747]

Having sat near Owen for a number of years in QCC, I can tell you he was appointed to the 747 Tech Pilot position on merit. Nothing else. His promotion to Fleet Captain was made by the CP & DCP. Fleet Captain is a thankless job where 99% of the time is spent managing the 1% of "problem" pilots. From what I know Owen has done that admirably.

[Keg]

Way, way pre COVID, in 2008 in fact, Owen was a Sydney 767 Captain. He became 767 tech pilot a couple of years later- 2010 or 2011, can’t remember which. That’s when he got his management guernsey. In 2014 he was told he was going to the 747.

Post Covid? As a line pilot SYD A330 Captain, BNE A330 Captain, MEL A330 Captain, PER 787 Captain are all realistic options given there are a number of Captains junior to him in those bases. If Qantas wants him in a management role then on the 787 in SYD then that’s where he’ll be- like the 20 other pilots both senior and junior to him who are in SVY roles on the 787 in SYD.

Management prerogative has been going since at least ‘97 (maybe earlier, can’t remember the exact year) when a 737 Captain was transferred to the 767 without the required seniority. He wasn’t even on the LHEA when he was transferred so clearly the EA is irrelevant in those circumstances. Since Owen’s transfer to the 747 in 2014 I can think of six other occasions where people have been transferred fleets and/or bases well outside of their seniority to fulfil a management/ SVY position. There were probably some between ‘97 and 2014 as well but I wasn’t paying attention. In fact the 787 as recently as it’s introduction is a great example where we have trainers appointed to the fleet regardless of seniority. Similarly with the A380 introduction. No doubt that is likely to occur with the A350 introduction also.

So the ‘lack of seniority’ line of argument is pretty meaningless given the ‘management prerogative’ and the ability to base specific SVY crew wherever they like has been well established for at least two decades. That makes your whinge against Owen and where he may end up post 747 retirement either a personal one, or a selective one based on the fleet he went to in 2014. Personal vendetta or selective sour sour grapes? Your call I guess.

Really, some people are holding on way too hard and Captain Weaver is featuring way too large in their mind. His role attracts a degree of angst and bitterness that few other management prerogative positions have attracted. Snide comments such as ‘weasel’ used here and on Qrewroom are childish. I’m was disappointed to see the term on Qrewroom. I held that poster in much higher regard than that.

Then again, as you say, many compatriots may not agree with my position.

[Derfred]

upcoming GFC/ Worldwide Depression that is going to be secular in its scope !

OMG... A secular depression! That won’t impress poor old Keg...

[Going Boeing]

Defending the indefensible? The company has moved management Captains around however they liked since before I joined 25+ years ago. Owen wasn’t the first. He’s certainly not the last with a few since then. If his move to the 747 took up much more than 2 minutes at COM then what a complete waste of everyone’s time.

Actually, it did take up a bit of time at AIPA COM and thus, following a COM meeting, the then AIPA President had a discussion with Tobiano about how extreme a move it was to put a management pilot onto the B747 who was 500 numbers below the most junior B747 captain at that time. Tobiano eventually conceded that it was a significant gap so he said that, as OW was to be appointed as Technical Manager Boeing, then, on completion of his B747 endorsement and a few months of flying to get comfortable with the aircraft, he would do a B737 endorsement and officially be classified as a B737 captain - appropriate with his seniority. The fact that the AIPA President didn't keep the pressure on Tobiano to keep his word (OW never did the B737 endo) is probably reflected by the fact that the ex President led the Management team against AIPA during the last EBA.

Apart from OW being way out of seniority, there was concern amongst COM members that he was the trojan horse for other management personnel (ex B767) who were being elevated/returning (MG & GS) would also take B747 slots way out of seniority - MG did but GS went to the B787.

[dragon man]

Captain Owen Weaver, at Sydney Airport, ahead of the retirement of the Qantas Boeing 747 fleet. Picture: John Feder

ROBYN IRONSIDE (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/author/Robyn+Ironside)
AVIATION WRITER
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9:00PM JULY 8, 2020
80 COMMENTS (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/its-a-superjumbo-sayonara-for-qantas-as-the-747-flies-off/news-story/09e6c1ec2729ab8914f4235d50914bda#coral)

Qantas 747 fleet captain Owen Weaver can still recall the first time he saw the aeroplane dubbed the “Queen of the Skies” and is in no doubt he will remember the last.

As a boy growing up in the *Adelaide Hills, he was inspired to become a pilot watching the *majestic Boeing 747 fly over his home.

“It’s a very iconic shape with the upper deck bubble and I just have that vivid memory of it as a child,” he said.
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JILL ROWBOTHAM

“I was always amazed by it, and that really got me into flying. My first flight with Qantas was actually on a 747 as a second officer so I started my career with it and now have ended up at this point in my career with a 747 as well.”

Captain Weaver’s last flight on a 747 will be no less memorable as he joins the team taking the *superjumbo from Sydney to California’s Mojave Desert.
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/ce5f30e81f2008c86689dc7cddcf12bf?width=650 (https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/ce5f30e81f2008c86689dc7cddcf12bf)The first Qantas Boeing 747, the ‘City of Canberra’.Although Qantas always planned to farewell the airline’s five remaining 747s at the end of 2020, the COVID crisis has cruelly intervened to bring their retirement date forward.

With four engines and a *capacity for 364 passengers, the 747-400s are simply too big and too fuel hungry for a travel-shy, post-COVID world.

“It’s very hard emotionally,” said Captain Weaver.

“We deliver an absolutely world-rate, first-class aircraft (to the desert) and we park it.

“That’s a very hard moment when we’ve spent our lives keeping (the 747) as a nice, comfortable, safe place that people want to be part of.”

The final flight on July 22 will follow a series of one-hour joy flights next week that sold out within 15 minutes of going on sale on Wednesday.

In a striking example of public affection for the aircraft, passengers paid between $400 and $747 for one of 540 seats on the flights out of Sydney, Canberra and *Brisbane.

Captain Weaver said he believed the high regard for the aircraft stemmed from what it represented to many travellers, providing opportunities plenty had never had before.

“The 747 really brought flying to the working class. People could save up and go and see their aunty in Italy or their mother in Greece or the family back in England or around Asia — it really is the aircraft that enabled that,” he said.

“It is the one aircraft that will always be associated with that.

“This is its 50th year of flying, and when you look back over those 50 years, that was the time aviation crossed that boundary.”

Qantas placed its first order for the Boeing 747 in 1967, and began flying the aircraft in 1971.

There was even a period when Qantas operated an all-747 fleet, from 1978 until 1985 when the first 767s came into service.

In something of a happy ending for the 747s, Captain Weaver said the desert would not be their final resting place.

“The final aircraft have been sold and that backs up our decision (to retire them),” he said.

“It’s unfortunate for us but there’s a new world opening up.

🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

[Keg]

G’day Going Boeing. Doing a 737 course a few months after a 747 course would be daft in the extreme. I can’t see Dick ever saying yes to something like that. I suspect it was more that if ever Owen ceased being a 747 Tech pilot (or any other management role associated with the 747) that he would revert to being a 737 Captain. IE he wouldn’t be able to cease a management role and retain his slot on the 747. That is how I recall the discussion I had with the HOFO at the time. Again, what a waste of everyone’s time. When Owen ceases to be in management he’ll go to where his seniority permits him to go. Until then.....

I find the whole issue quite bemusing. I’ve said to a few people over the years when the subject has arisen that whether it’s five numbers or five hundred the principle is the same. A lot of people are OK with management pilots 5, 50, 70 or even 100 seniority numbers out of order, or when it’s occurring on a fleet with which they have little interest (the A330 or 767). But somehow this specific case raised (and obviously still raises) significant angst. It seems hilarious that it’s not the principle (given that it happened previously on the 767 and the A380, and has happened since on the A330 and 787) but that it was either the gap in seniority numbers or the fact that it was the 747. That Captain Weaver is living rent free in many pilots minds six years down the track from his appointment says a lot more about those pilots than it does about Owen.

Ironic too that some who criticise Captain Weaver are quite prepared to accept generous offers from him when he’s gone above and beyond on their behalf. Again, that says much more about those people than it does about Owen. That wouldn’t possibly apply to any critics on this thread. Would it Andrew?

[MelbourneFlyer]

There's a special unofficial website set up for the QF747 finale, includes photos and stories from QF747 fans, it's at www.qantas747.com (http://www.qantas747.com/).

[Going Boeing]

G’day Going Boeing. Doing a 737 course a few months after a 747 course would be daft in the extreme. I can’t see Dick ever saying yes to something like that. I suspect it was more that if ever Owen ceased being a 747 Tech pilot (or any other management role associated with the 747) that he would revert to being a 737 Captain. IE he wouldn’t be able to cease a management role and retain his slot on the 747. That is how I recall the discussion I had with the HOFO at the time. Again, what a waste of everyone’s time. When Owen ceases to be in management he’ll go to where his seniority permits him to go. Until then.....

Hi Keg, I was reporting what the then AIPA President told the COM at the subsequent meeting, whether he was being economical with the truth to placate the COM members who had an issue with this “manoeuvre” is not known.

It’s interesting that you mentioned the HOFO as he benefited from the Trojan Horse effect of Owen’s appointment.

[Keg]

If he was made a 737 Sydney Captain, I don’t think you would hear another word about it.

So it actually was about the aeroplane he went to then. The principle of whether he went to the 737 or 747 is identical. He was still being appointed in a management role to a fleet that wouldn’t have been attained on straight seniority post 767 RIN- though he could have attained 737 command in Sydney had he jumped in 2013 I think. The angst was just the fact that it was the 747 and the number of seniority numbers that. So not the principle, but the fleet/ size of seniority numbers.

I’d still argue that virtually every pilot in an identical situation would have done the same thing.

Time’s short for me at the moment. I’ll re-visit tomorrow.

[Capt Fathom]

.....Bypassing Seniority 101.....

Join Management or the Training Department.

[blow.n.gasket]

Glad to see I’m not the only one seeing an overt Orwellian overtone connection with this “appointment on merit” !
Will be interesting to see where the “ topic of conversation “ manages to weasel his way post 747 ,(787 command SYD?) now that his ,747 2 engine taxying senior Management Patron is no longer in a position to “galvanise “ opinion !

[Turnleft080]

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/ce5f30e81f2008c86689dc7cddcf12bf?width=650 (https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/ce5f30e81f2008c86689dc7cddcf12bf)The first Qantas Boeing 747, the ‘City of Canberra’.Although Qantas always planned to farewell the airline’s five remaining 747s at the end of 2020, the COVID crisis has cruelly intervened to bring their retirement date forward.


How long would it to take to strip the present colour scheme and paint the aircraft in the original scheme. A little bit of money involved
though the sentiment would be fantastic.

[Keg]

Glad to see I’m not the only one seeing an overt Orwellian overtone connection with this “appointment on merit” !

AIPA took the company on (in court) when the A380 F/O RIN happened in 2016. AIPA lost and the court confirmed that Qantas can appoint whoever they like to SVY positions. Perhaps we should be grateful that thus far it’s only ever been in rank.


Will be interesting to see where the “ topic of conversation “ manages to weasel his way post 747 ,(787 command SYD?) now that his ,747 2 engine taxying senior Management Patron is no longer in a position to “galvanise “ opinion !

Do you reckon Owen would have retained his management position for the last decade if he wasn’t delivering? If Qantas choose to put him on the 787 then good luck to him. Seriously, let it go!

Angry, we’ll have to agree to disagree but I suspect you already knew that. Sartori, Ford(s) as well as other A380 TREs, A380 TFOs, 787 trainers, current A330 management pilots, are all times it’s occurred... probably a bunch I’ve missed. You’re right though, it seems it’s never been about the principle, it was about some of us being demoted at the same time as Owen got the 747 job. That sounds more like tall poppy syndrome.

[Fris B. Fairing]

This thread began as a Farewell to the Queen. How unfortunate that it has degenerated into a debate about Kings.

[blow.n.gasket]

Keg , I believe there are a few issues being conflated here.

If the Management prerogative of certain Managerial appointments was based purely on the concept of “best person” for the job , then begrudgingly? there would be no argument !

Unfortunately what we see is definitely no Dutchy and certainly not even close to a Dolly !





Do you reckon Owen would have retained his management position for the last decade if he wasn’t delivering?



The million $ question , just what is being delivered ? , apart from the plum jobs of ferrying aircraft to the desert ?

The bastardisation of the original nobel concept of the best person for the position

in order to circumvent past practice and principle appears to be the growing trend .

[boaccomet4]

Sad to see "The Queen of They Sky" being retired. Over the years flew as a passenger on all B747 types flown by QF. The first 200 series even had a cocktail lounge behind the flight deck. Can also remember there was a massive galley below cabin level where the flight attendants who prepared the trolley's and heated the meals were known as Air Chefs (early B747 models). At least QF have couple of models on display in Australia. Also the legroom in economy was reasonable compared to the seat pitch these days. Can anybody tell me if the early models that QF purchased had the capacity to use Water Methanol for takeoff?

[DirectAnywhere]

JT9 had water injection. Takeoff data out of places like Athens at MTOW planning for an engine failure or loss of water pump was an interesting experience.

That all disappeared with the advent of the RB211.

[boaccomet4]

A QFB747 was used in the evacuation of Darwin after cyclone Tracey. I think it may still hold the record for the amount of passengers ever carried on the type. Around 700 pax and crew if my memory serves me correctly.

[Fris B. Fairing]

boaccomet4

I recall it was just demin water not water/meth. The figure 1800 kgs seems to stick in my mind.
The Darwin evacuation flight was VH-EBB on 28DEC74 with 673 pax. You can find a list of the flights here:

Cyclone Tracy Evacuation Flights (http://www.adastron.com/cyclone-tracy/tracy.htm)

Rgds

[Capt Chambo]

A QFB747 was used in the evacuation of Darwin after cyclone Tracey. I think it may still hold the record for the amount of passengers ever carried on the type. Around 700 pax and crew if my memory serves me correctly.

Not quite. Google “Operation Solomon”, where an El-Al B747 reportedly carried 1088 pax!

[Turnleft080]

Your spot on Chambo, here is the wikipedia extract. Happened on May 25 1991. A flight from Ethiopia to Tel Aviv. All the cargo holds would of been full to get them in for that number.

The operation set a world record for most passengers on an aircraft when an El Al (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al) 747 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747) carried well over 1,000 people to Israel. The record itself is uncontested, but the number of passengers is unclear: Guinness World Records (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_World_Records) put the number at 1,088, including two babies who were born on the flight. It noted that contemporary reports cite numbers as low as 1,078 and as high as 1,122.

[Ken Borough]

1800kgs for demin water was the right number ex BNE and other places where there was a short runway but from BKK, ATH, HNL etc., the load was 2400kgs. You might recall that when CNS first opened for B747 operations, demin water was tankered from BNE. If not required ex CNS was was dribbled into the apron. Eventually it was locally sourced.

[Cunning_Stunt]

Aaah yes.. I recall the T/O Data card with the “ X” in the box. And hoping that the Flight Engineer would not call out “ Setting dry thrust” as we thundered down the runway!

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Nice footage on the ABC news last night of the B747 flying over Sydney.

[boaccomet4]

Thankyou to all who replied regarding my questions regarding water injection and the record for max pax carried on the B747

[Fliegenmong]

Just drove down to Surfers Paradise beach and watched it go south, and then back up the coast.... :)

[dragon man]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1106x1112/3a6d28c2_83e2_416e_8898_d9944f8f92d0_75308281a048efdb6ad9472 89114d2075371fbd5.jpeg

[blubak]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1106x1112/3a6d28c2_83e2_416e_8898_d9944f8f92d0_75308281a048efdb6ad9472 89114d2075371fbd5.jpeg
Absolute perfect & deserved tribute to a remarkable aircraft that will probably never be replicated.
It has had everything thrown at it during its time in service & has come through with flying colours,lots of great memories.

[WTFDude]

I won't miss opening/closing those JT9D core cowls:)

[Capt Quentin McHale]

People,

We can go on with the accolades of our beloved "Queen of the Skies", BUT, how many pay attention to that name in the certifiers box? A massive thankyou to Mr G COOK and all of your cohort worldwide for keeping our collective arses airworthy and SAFE.

Rgds McHale.

[dragon man]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/053caabc-c8d9-11ea-a4b9-03f8110e32cc?shareToken=b9174a730118b5025c23bc77a3317707

[f1yhigh]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1106x1112/3a6d28c2_83e2_416e_8898_d9944f8f92d0_75308281a048efdb6ad9472 89114d2075371fbd5.jpeg

Who's cutting onions

[AerialPerspective]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1106x1112/3a6d28c2_83e2_416e_8898_d9944f8f92d0_75308281a048efdb6ad9472 89114d2075371fbd5.jpeg

Love this post, I'm almost tempted to print and frame that Tech Log entry... thank you for posting it... my history with the 747 and Qantas goes back to seeing EBA for the first time as a child, then flying to SYD on it one morning with my Dad. As a one time QF employee, I think it's the most iconic aircraft in Qantas' history, it's also totally fitting that it was the last major aircraft purchased by Qantas that was experienced by Hudson Fysh, before his passing in 1974. I used to think as a young kid how remarkable it was that he (and others) started the airline having been born before there were aeroplanes, with a string and wood biplane (the 504K) and he lived to see that company operate the Boeing 747.

[Bodie1]

I used to think as a young kid how remarkable it was that he (and others) started the airline having been born before there were aeroplanes, with a string and wood biplane (the 504K) and he lived to see that company operate the Boeing 747.

We kinda forget how far aviation has come in such a short period of time. All to be brought undone by a poxy virus.

[Roj approved]

Just dredged up my Qantas Junior V-Jet Club logbook from the early ‘70’s.

My first 747 flight was SYD - MEL on VH-EBC on the 22/12/72, I was 18 months old. The last time I was on one was Nov 2010 SYD-SIN. Great memories of a grand Queen of the skies. They will be missed in the passenger world, but no doubt, have many years left as a freighter.

[B772]

Anyone interested in forming a syndicate/unit trust etc to purchase a 1991 B747-400 with 16,332 hours and 13,569 cycles. Condition reported 'as new'. Mostly hangared when not flying. Formerly Japans equivalent of Air Force One. VIP config with usual trimmings, just 85 seats. Unsold at USD12,500,000. Offers accepted.

[Stationair8]

B772, the only downside with the syndicate would be when it is your weekend to wash the B747.

What are Qantas doing with the B747 sim?

[Turnleft080]

B772, the only downside with the syndicate would be when it is your weekend to wash the B747.

What are Qantas doing with the B747 sim?

Should really keep it for joy flights. Even do fear of flying courses.
Not just kids the whole general public would love it since flight deck doors
are shut most of the time.

[V-Jet]

Heartwarming to have seen it live on Ch 7 listening to the commentary announcing Oscar Echo Jacket was travelling down the harbour at 20kts. I was surprised we couldn't hear the racket from all the bells!!

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

Heartwarming to have seen it live on Ch 7 listening to the commentary announcing Oscar Echo Jacket was travelling down the harbour at 20kts. I was surprised we couldn't hear the racket from all the bells!!
Did they put it on a barge?

[V-Jet]

Did they put it on a barge?

No - but my interpretation of the commentary was saying exemplary airmanship (IE: any normal QF crew) when combined with an extraordinary airframe (Oscar Echo Jacket) clearly gives you the ability to fly at 20kts without stalling.

Alternatively (and I only saw Ch7) you might have thought a Pilot instead of a Muppet may have been utilised for a commentary. I would imagine that despite the current workload one might have been available - perhaps even one for every FTA TV station. Even GT might have been capable of a better job - but we couldn't spread him too thin, of course.

[bangbounceboeing]

Have a look on flight tracker what the grand old lady is actually doing right now 😊

[C441]

Looking at FR24 they might be doing a bit of drawing before pointing at LAX.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/508x397/image_22_7_20_at_5_20_pm_1d7b010590544a585a427fd9dd4f714b405 16a6c.jpeg

[Automodon 17]

Returning to YSSY now?
Try again tomorrow?
Just can’t drag herself away.

[Fris B. Fairing]

Bravo!
Enough fuel for wings?

[bangbounceboeing]

Or the flying kangaroo

[Magnetomick]

Skippy’s in the cockpit or the latest paintwork on the tail paint still wet and affecting rudder controls.

What a memory for the old girl

[Turnleft080]

A skip that size would only need 8 hops to get to LAX.

[Magnetomick]

QF7474 turn left heading .......

[Sunfish]

No flights in Victoria. Not sure if it’s Covid or the usual Sydney centric bias. Who gives a #$%@ anyway? Qantas is nothing to Victorians.

[Capt Fathom]

No flights in Victoria. Not sure if it’s Covid or the usual Sydney centric bias. Who gives a #$%@ anyway? Qantas is nothing to Victorians.

Breathe Sunny, breathe. Have you tried yoga?

[brokenagain]

No flights in Victoria. Not sure if it’s Covid or the usual Sydney centric bias. Who gives a #$%@ anyway? Qantas is nothing to Victorians

Why would you want to go to that disease ridden ****hole? It’s full of Victorians anyway!

[34R]

Who gives a #$%@ anyway? Qantas is nothing to Victorians.

How prophetic!

Not much is it would seem

[Sunfish]

Not even a symbolic stop to empty the toilets on the tarmac.

Go and choke on your Neil Perry designed in flight food.

[Bodie1]

You misery guts, if I was Qantas I'd put you on a no fly list. Qantas based in Sydney, Virgin in Brisbane. There's a reason no airline is based there, it's a ****hole. Full of miserable pricks like you.

[bangbounceboeing]

Wish sunfish would have the same fate as Paragraph377

[Sunfish]

Qantas has #4@#ed over Victoria for thirty plus years. Why should we care about it? It shut down its victorian maintenance and overhaul facilities, has no business presence here except for the terminal staff, dragged generations of Victorians to sydney against their will to board International flights until their monopoly became unsustainable and has done NOTHING’ for this state except leach money out of our pockets to support an overpriced Sydney operation.

‘’Let’s be quite clear. I have nothing against the staff. My argument is ECONOMIC. Qantas does not spread its business around the country and its international flight schedules (pre covid and pre open skies) penalized Queensland, South Australia, Victoria and perhaps West Australia as well. Sydney is not Australia’s gateway of choice. It is where Qantas dumped passengers after twenty hour flights. Anyone who does NOT live in Sydney has negative experiences of that Sydney “transit” stop.

What we want is direct international flights from all state capitals.Perhaps with B787s.

To put that another way, you can stick that other Sydney hub centric aircraft, the A380, up the CEO’s backside, if it will fit.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Sunfish, life is too short- let it go! Turn off PPRUNE and go do something fun.

[brokenagain]

Way to go hijacking another thread to carry on like a pork chop. You’re the epitome of an angry old man.

[Sunfish]

Yeah, you are right. I liked the B747 and the people who designed and built it. Nothing with that vibe still flying.

[Keg]

.... dragged generations of Victorians to sydney against their will to board International flights....

That must be why 25 years ago when I joined Qantas we operated SYD-MEL-SIN and then onto LHR and then SIN-MEL-SYD on the return! And then in the late ‘90s, operating MEL-NRT and MEL-HKG on the 767. Dragging people through SYD. Oh, wait!

[Turnleft080]

Sunfish- grab a gin and tonic and watch Radar24 it's past Fiji now. It's climbed from FL350 to FL370 and sitting pretty.
It only has 7 hours left. May as well burn the midnight oil, all the way to LAX. It's the best thing TV.

[cattletruck]

Surprised the pilot brief wasn't to fly a pattern showing two men holding hands. Maybe it was but the pilots thought better of it.

[Fris B. Fairing]

I would like to express my personal thanks to the clever, caring people who engineered yesterday’s display of 21st century aerial art, even though we all knew that it was the aeroplane saying goodbye. The day promised to be one of sadness, and it was, but you soothed the sadness and replaced the tears of sadness with tears of pride. Thank you.

[blubak]

I would like to express my personal thanks to the clever, caring people who engineered yesterday’s display of 21st century aerial art, even though we all knew that it was the aeroplane saying goodbye. The day promised to be one of sadness, and it was, but you soothed the sadness and replaced the tears of sadness with tears of pride. Thank you.
Yes,well done to all.
The aerial art was special & unique,it was a great final touch to a day filled with memories for all who have been involved with this magnificent aircraft over its almost 50 years displaying the 'ROO' proudly on its tail👋

[dream747]

I flew on the Jumbo for the very first time back in 1997, and I was a little kid back then. It was on a QF B747-400 from Singapore to Sydney. I was mesmerized by the looks and sheer size of the plane and the entire experience. The view of the wing against the sunrise from my window as we made our way across Australia remains deeply etched in my memory.

From then on, the B747 inspired me to be a professional pilot and I’ve made it after all those years. Amazingly the B747 is still around today, and she still looks amazing and endearing. Happy Retirement!

[Wunwing]

Sunfish.
Are you the same Sunfish that announced a few weeks ago that you were leaving PPRuNE forever?
Maybe your earlier decision was the better one?

And just to put it right. As a Sydney based crew member my logbook shows a large number of Melbourne directs north and arrivals where we transited Melbourne and onto Sydney.For example, we flew daily MEL- HKG and another B747 flew daily SYD- HKG. Indeed I was on the crew ex MEL that did the last Qantas ever into Kai Tak.

But what would I know, I only flew the patterns?

[itsnotthatbloodyhard]

Sunfish.

And just to put it right. As a Sydney based crew member my logbook shows a large number of Melbourne directs north and arrivals where we transited Melbourne and onto Sydney.For example, we flew daily MEL- HKG and another B747 flew daily SYD- HKG. Indeed I was on the crew ex MEL that did the last Qantas ever into Kai Tak.

But what would I know, I only flew the patterns?

There’s also the fact there’s a MEL base for the A380, A330 and B787 - but no SYD B787 base. But facts don’t matter to sad, angry old men who would rather just keep shouting ‘Sydneycentric’ than acknowledge reality.

[Wonderworld]

Surprised the pilot brief wasn't to fly a pattern showing two men holding hands. Maybe it was but the pilots thought better of it.

you utter w/a/n/k/e/r

[Bodie1]

Indeed I was on the crew ex MEL that did the last Qantas ever into Kai Tak.

You lucky bastard.