Plane collision at Aberdeen Airport

[Kerwin]

2 planes collided at Aberdeen airport this afternoon during taxiing. No pax aboard, no injuries.
I have some photos but can't post them yet, due to not having made enough posts.

[Kerwin]

From the local rag.
Aircraft collided with another plane on the tarmac at Aberdeen International Airport.

There were no passengers on either of the planes caught up in the incident this afternoon.
It is understood that a Loganair and a former FlyBe aircraft were involved with one plane crashing into the other.A spokesman for Aberdeen Airport said: “A moving aircraft hit a stationary aircraft. There were no passengers on board.”

The Air Accident Investigation Branch (AAIB) confirmed they have launched a probe into the collision.

A spokesman for the safety body said: “Following an incident at Aberdeen Airport this afternoon, the AAIB is making initial inquiries, and at this stage there is no further comment.”

Loganair

[750XL]

https://twitter.com/_Alpha_Delta/status/1273004673767784449

[DaveReidUK]

The Dash 8 has been grounded/impounded at ABZ since early March following Flybe's collapse and was reportedly being "prepared for departure".

[Kerwin]

A spokesman for Loganair confirmed the details of the incident at the airport.

He said: “Just before 6pm this evening a Loganair Embraer 145 regional jet, parked with no passengers or crew members aboard, was hit by a former Flybe Bombardier Q400 aircraft, which we understand was being prepared for departure after being stored at Aberdeen Airport.

“The nose of the Q400 impacted the rear port side of the Embraer, becoming lodged underneath and lifting the right main gear off the ground. The most important thing is that no-one was injured in the incident, with the crew working on the ex-Flybe aircraft being safe and well, yet understandably shaken by the occurrence.”

“The airport’s fire services were in attendance and the Air Accidents Investigation Branch has been notified. A recovery operation for the aircraft is already in hand.

“We do not expect that this unfortunate occurrence will lead to any disruption to customers on Loganair flights from Aberdeen as we have standby aircraft available to fulfil our schedule.”

[Maninthebar]

That's quite an impact in daylight and on a dry tarmac

[Nil by mouth]

Who was in command at the time ?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/144x186/eye_test_chart_79689af53a6e68ac9a0ecaf5d9886e6f46ef12a9.jpg

[FlightlessParrot]

“We do not expect that this unfortunate occurrence will lead to any disruption to customers on Loganair flights from Aberdeen as we have standby aircraft available to fulfil our schedule.”

I think that wins the "Every cloud ..." award.

[P1DRIVER]

“The nose of the Q400 impacted the rear port side of the Embraer, becoming lodged underneath and lifting the right main gear off the ground. The most important thing is that no-one was injured in the incident, with the crew working on the ex-Flybe aircraft being safe and well, yet understandably shaken by the occurrence.”

Mmmmmmmm mmm 🤔. Rear PORT side. 50/50 chance

[Herod]

After so long just sitting, possibly a brake problem?

[old,not bold]

I can already see some good illustrative material to brighten up Maintenance Human Factors and/or CRM training courses. I'd love to see the root cause analysis (if done properly) of exactly how this seemingly "impossible" event took place. I'm guessing it'll be a holes-in-the-cheese series of errors and/or omissions, rather than a single huge error, because it nearly always is, and that each of those will have been caused by one or more of the classic human factors aka the "Dirty Dozen."

[Auxtank]

After so long just sitting, possibly a brake problem?

One would hope so.

[DaveReidUK]

After so long just sitting, possibly a brake problem?

And/or jumped the chocks during an engine run-up ? Something must have provided the initial momentum.

[axefurabz]

Interesting photies here:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-53076806

[Fortissimo]

There is some good advice on safety risks during operational shutdown and restarting here: https://flightsafety.org/toolkits-resources/covid-19-safety-roadmap-and-punch-lists/

Unless crew had boarded the aircraft for the purposes of flight this will not be classified as an accident, but I dare say the AAIB will be interested in the chain of events!

[FBW390]

It looks the Q400 didn't have chocks"ON", or at least not properly! They should always be in place when the aircraft is parked, the parking brake is not enough on most aircraft.

[BusterHot]

It’ll be interesting to see who pays for that and where the money comes from 😎

[Diesel_10]

The banks are bleeding money already with these FlyBe aircraft. This should nicely reduce the re-sale value. Somebodies insurance will pay. (a) Owners; (b) Ferry Company; (c) Maintenance Organisation.

Adjusters at the ready.....................:ok:

[kildress]

"The nose of the Q400 impacted the rear port side of the Embraer"
Surely Starboard side?
Perhaps a Cummings style eye test was being conducted.

[The Fat Controller]

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=905936583145138

Oops !

[Maninthebar]

tell me that chap IS trying to stop it by leaning on the radome

[DaveReidUK]

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=905936583145138

Oops !

Interesting video. It looks like the Dash 8 was on 31 and the Embraer on 11, so the DHC rolled in a roughly eastward direction:

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/564x437/egph_apron_06d55ba52e29cb0d9b8558d9598f7f5d47b86155.jpg


It doesn't appear that there was an engine run taking place, although there was clearly an engineer in the cockpit for some reason (who wisely abandoned ship when it clearly wasn't going to stop).

The METAR showed a light south-easterly surface wind, so that wouldn't have been a factor. But there is a discernable slope (downwards west to east) in the terrain between the Bristow apron on the western edge of the airport and the passenger terminal, so good old gravity may have played a part.

[parkfell]

Interesting video....... so good old gravity may have played a part.
AAIB field investigation conducted by correspondence?

[750XL]

Looks to me they were possibly manoeuvring the aircraft a little bit by hand rather than using a tug? Hence the lack of chocks, 6+ people surrounding the aircraft etc.

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

tell me that chap IS trying to stop it by leaning on the radome

Tell me I'm not the only one hearing the Benny Hill chase music when I watch that (somewhat sped up) video .

I guess I didn't know my speakers were off, because on re-viewing it actually does..:O

[Cat Techie]

Looks to me they were possibly manoeuvring the aircraft a little bit by hand rather than using a tug? Hence the lack of chocks, 6+ people surrounding the aircraft etc.
It will come out in the wash. It was on a remote stand as as David has pointed out where a tug would not be required to see off the aircraft. One doesn't push to manouver a 20 tonne airframe unless as a last resort. Chocks should only be removed when the aircraft is ready to be moved or for engineering reasons as aircraft jacking for a wheel change or a maintenance proceedure. Here ends the CRM / HF lesson for today.

[DaveReidUK]

AAIB field investigation conducted by correspondence?

I think we can safely assume it will be either, or neither. :O

[Herod]

Looking at the guys trying to stop it (?), there could have been a very nasty outcome.

[Cat Techie]

Loads of us that are furloughed will have to get back in the zone that was very likely with those that were in the video. Currency for a lot of us that are professional fight crew, CC , Engineers and others has been serverly degraded in the last few months. Going back to work needs us to think and remind ourselves that we are not current.

[Pilot DAR]

Thread drift... when I worked for deHavilland in the early '80's, Dash 8 number one, C-GDNK (named for DH Director Donald Kendal) was painted for its roll out. As with airplane things, there was a bit of a rush at the last minute, so we were there Sunday evening just after the final coat of paint went on. I was just hanging around, I had no actual role in preparing the plane for display. It was determined that the tug which had pulled the plane into the paint shop, could not easily be positioned back to push it out. So six of us, and one elderly painter carrying a set of chocks, pushed it out. Four of us each took a main wheel, and two more pushed on the main gear legs, as there was no other place to push on - new, and not cured paint. We couldn't quite get it over the hump of the hangar door tracks, but by then, the tug could be positioned to finish the job.

But yes, rolling any plane by hand, with no plan to stop it is a bad idea. And placing the chock under a wheel in motion is certainly hazardous!

[Bksmithca]

My question is why the individual who was on the aircraft didn't jump into a seat and apply the brakes?

[jimjim1]

It looks like the Dash 8 was on 31 and the Embraer on 11, so the DHC rolled in a roughly eastward direction:

From Google Earth it appears to be a drop of 3m over 70m. This is 2.5 degrees. No real idea how reliable or accurate this measurement is.

I also checked across pad 31 and the slope is about the same all the way across but by then I had done the screenshot.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/840x512/aberdeen_ground_collision_crop_39bb6924296287b64cb4e7d9caa8e 49fdd05702f.jpg

[Ant T]

My question is why the individual who was on the aircraft didn't jump into a seat and apply the brakes?

The brakes use hydraulic pressure from engine-driven hydraulic pumps, with accumulators to maintain park brake pressure when shut down. But these Dash 8s have probably not moved since FlyBe stopped operating in March. Accumulators do not hold pressure indefinitely (which is one good reason why parked aircraft are chocked).
if the accumulator was depressurised, the brakes would not operate until the engines were turning, or the accumulator was recharged with a ground hydraulic rig.

[Newforest2]

Great to have some serious intelligent conversations on the mishap instead of the usual aircraft crash vultures!

[N707ZS]

Would be interesting to know when the chocks were removed and by who, or was it parked up without them and these guys set things in motion..The video will hopefully have the evidence for that.

[Cat Techie]

The airport authority have everything they need to investigate. I am not rated on the Q400 and while I know the likes of a Jetstream 41 has no standby electro pump, am surprised the Q400 has not. Then again my other ratings are regionals where standby hydraulic power is highly desirable or essential.

[Cat Techie]

Thread drift... when I worked for deHavilland in the early '80's, Dash 8 number one, C-GDNK (named for DH Director Donald Kendal) was painted for its roll out. As with airplane things, there was a bit of a rush at the last minute, so we were there Sunday evening just after the final coat of paint went on. I was just hanging around, I had no actual role in preparing the plane for display. It was determined that the tug which had pulled the plane into the paint shop, could not easily be positioned back to push it out. So six of us, and one elderly painter carrying a set of chocks, pushed it out. Four of us each took a main wheel, and two more pushed on the main gear legs, as there was no other place to push on - new, and not cured paint. We couldn't quite get it over the hump of the hangar door tracks, but by then, the tug could be positioned to finish the job.

But yes, rolling any plane by hand, with no plan to stop it is a bad idea. And placing the chock under a wheel in motion is certainly hazardous!
They had no intention of it moving without the engines running. However things were done that should not have been and gravity took over . Whatever a massive cock up.

[Eejit]

Given that both the rudder and steering, (along with the brakes) require hydraulic pressure to operate it wouldn't have made any difference.
Might as well be a spectator outside as be one inside.

[dixi188]

The Q400 has a hand pump in the right landing gear bay to pump up the brake accumulator. Nothing could be done in the cockpit once the aircraft started to move.

[WMB]

The parking brake is on the No2 system, with a nitrogen charged accumulator located in the right wing root. According to most SOPs, minimum pressure in the No2 system before engine start is 500psi, anything below that then the system pressure must be restored by operating the manual pump in the right engine nacelle. That is why it is normal to start the No2 engine first on the Q400. The hydraulic pumps are driven of the reduction gearbox, the APU supplies DC power and Air only. The reason most SOPs use 500psi as minimum pressure (or 1000psi if you choose to start the No1 engine first) is because it is possible to have indications of pressure in the No2 system below 500psi but that is most likely residual accumulator gas pressure, and brakes will not function. So it is quite easy to foresee a scenario where an aircraft parked on an incline with little or no accumulator pressure will begin to roll when the chocks are removed or someone cycles the parking brake to test it and unwittingly depleting the remaining pressure.

[Duchess_Driver]

What I don't understand is why the guy in the cockpit jumped out, rather than trying to use the rudder pedals or tiller and steer the aircraft onto the grass.

Whilst aircrew (may) know where the brakes are I wouldn’t expect your average handling agent or ground crew to necessarily know where or how to operate.

If the residual hydraulic pressure or accumulator residual had fallen to an ineffective level then the aircraft would have rolled against the chocks with the slope at the first opportunity - making them very difficult to remove against the weight of the aircraft...?

[Doc Holliday]

Does the Q400 not have a standby hydraulic pump that works of the batteries? so if the engine driven pump goes u/s there is no back up from a DC pump? why could they not switch on the batteries (or plug in an GPU) then turn on the standby pumps and charge up the system? just interested as I have never flown the dash.

[ORAC]

Video, as the previous Facebook post appears to no longer work.

https://ukaviation.news/cctv-shows-moment-flybe-dash-8-crashed-into-a-loganair-regional-jet/

[DaveReidUK]

Engineers perform ground engine runs every day without the need to involve pilots.

[dixi188]

Does the Q400 not have a standby hydraulic pump that works of the batteries? so if the engine driven pump goes u/s there is no back up from a DC pump? why could they not switch on the batteries (or plug in an GPU) then turn on the standby pumps and charge up the system? just interested as I have never flown the dash.

The Q400 does not have a DC pump. There is an AC pump in the no1 system called the SPU (standby power unit) and there is a PTU that pressurises the no 2 system from no 1.
The normal ground power is DC on the nose but AC can be connected on the right nacelle.The usual way to top up the parking brake is with the hand pump in the right nacelle.
If the maintenance guys had just done a "Line Check" (75hrs or 10 days I think) then the brake pressure would have been depleted to check the N2 charge in the accumulator (500psi). The hand pump needs to be used to top up the pressure again.

[Cat Techie]

Cheers for all the technical info on the Q400. Swiss cheese central again.

[Cat Techie]

Well you know very little about aerospace structures or your having a Steffi Graff. The latter prehaps.