Bruntingthorpe

[Old-Duffer]

I understand that the Buccaneer Aviation Group is moving from Bruntingthorpe and will relocate to Kemble by 30 Sep 20.

If this is a general 'eviction' of the site, the larger aircraft, such as the Victor and Nimrod will probably end up being scrapped.

Anybody have reliable news on the situation?

Old Duffer

[GeeRam]

If this is a general 'eviction' of the site, the larger aircraft, such as the Victor and Nimrod will probably end up being scrapped.


It appears so.
Certainly, some of the groups have had letters of notice to vacate the site.....but its not known whether all the groups have (such as LPG given the issue with the old Q shed etc!) had letters or just some of them.

There's no news on what will happen to the aircraft that can't be moved. If even some are allowed to stay, there will be no more fast taxi runs etc., or anti-det runs etc, as the runway is now (or soon will be) filled up with unsold new cars, earning 50p per car per day to the airfield owners, with possible site access restrictions etc.
ts likely that there will also no longer be any motorsport or tracks days etc there as well.

[NutLoose]

Important New Information re the Aviation services at Bruntingthorpe

Please note that, following an acquisition of C.Walton Ltd by Cox Automotive, the Aviation business and Cold War Jets Museum at the Bruntingthorpe site are now closed and will not re-open.

It is recognised that this may be concerning news to some aviation enthusiasts. Cox Automotive is an automotive services business who do not work within the aerospace sector. One of the previous owners of C.Walton Ltd, Mr David Walton, is currently investigating the construction of new buildings adjacent to the LPG ‘Q Shed’ to house some of the collection and safeguard their future on land excluded from the Cox Automotive lease. News of any progress on this front will be released by Mr Walton as and when available.

Subject to the COVID-19 situation at the time, it remains the intention of Cox Automotive to hold the planned Cold War Jets Fast Taxi Day in August. Further information on this will be released much closer to the date.

https://www.bruntingthorpe.com/aviation

[Chris Kebab]

Guess that also means the end of all those ideas that kicked around regarding future flying for the Tristars in the States?

[Rhino power]

Not looking good for the VC-10s...

The following message was posted on the 'ZA147 The Last VC10 To Fly.' facebook group-

"Sad news for all the VC10 fans around the world. ZA147 & ZD241 have been given notice to leave Bruntingthorpe by the end of October 2020.
As you can imagine all the guys and girls who have looked after these aircraft at Brunty over the past 6 years are very sad with this news and just don’t know what we can do.
If the jets aren’t moved before this date the only thing the owner can do is scrap the airframes and move the fuselages.

What can we do..... The only option we have for the survival of at least one of the aircraft is if we can find a new airfield and road move ZD241 in a sympathetic way so she can power up and possibly taxi once again. This is a huge undertaking and it can be done but it’s going to cost £300,000!!!

Does the VC10 have the public backing around the world to raise this amount of money??? I just don’t know! It’s a huge amount of money to find.
If the fans are interested in preserving one of the last fully working examples in the world I need to know your thoughts. Time is against us and we need to see what public support there is before we could consider a possible crowdfunding project.
Over to you now. Thanks."

-RP

[Old-Duffer]

It is of interest that the 'footprint' of something like a VC10 or Nimrod is quite small and with care, therefore, the is sufficient space to park some cars beneath. Given the apparent haste of the move (understandable if you are a hard headed businessman who is only concerned about maximising the available space in the current 'build um and park um' situation), might it be possible to park the big aircraft all together, until all the options are explored?

O-D

[esscee]

Oh dear, another big "car park" being prepared. After seeing pictures of Thurleigh for example, there ought to be enough space for some of the aircraft presently at "Brunty".

[GeeRam]

Oh dear, another big "car park" being prepared. After seeing pictures of Thurleigh for example, there ought to be enough space for some of the aircraft presently at "Brunty".

Not just Thurleigh, Upper Heyford is also a large car park as well.

Doesn't sound good for the VC-10's. Probably a question mark over the Victor and the Comet as well most likely, although it depends on who owns what. Anything owned by D.Walton is most likely the only stuff (and probably the Lightnings given the post above) that will be OK and moved to what ever area near the Q-shed that is on the property still owned by D.Walton.
Everything else owned by any 'group' like the Buccs and the VC-10's will likely have been given notice.
As mentioned the Tristars are an interesting issue, and presumably their owners have also been given notice to leave as well. I suppose they could be made airworthy and flown out to storage elsewhere....but that would involve a lot of cars being moved.....not to mention costs of getting them ferryable. I suspect, they will be scrapped on site?

[Fareastdriver]

When all the cars are sold off at £100/month for five years and no residual value then there will be plenty of space left.

[pasta]

Can't they fly the Victor out?

[GeeRam]

Can't they fly the Victor out?

Not a chance.

[GeeRam]

When all the cars are sold off at £100/month for five years and no residual value then there will be plenty of space left.

Its not just a question of space.

The new owners have no business interest in aviation.

The local council and NIMBYS have been anti-aviation business/activity at Brunty for decades, which is why the aircraft reclaiming business moved away......and as well as limiting motorsport there as well.

The writing has been on the wall for aviation at Brunty for quite a few years now.

[lightbluefootprint]

Hopefully museums with active airframes will be alert to the possibility of extending their collections. On an entirely selfish note I'd love to see the potentially homeless of the Brunty collection move to Elvington.

[ex fat repair team]

Job adverts on line for 747 mech's, so I guess they are planning on flying it out.

[pasta]

Not a chance.
I wasn't entirely serious; that airframe has a bit of form for going aviating when it shouldn't...

[Green Flash]

I've just had the sad thought that all the airframes might get scrapped and melted down and turned into .... cars? :sad:

[ZD241_VC10]

VC10 Preservation Group Statement on the current situation at Bruntingthorpe



Like the rest of the aviation community, the VC10 Preservation Group recently learned that Cox Automotive UK Limited was to take over the site at the Bruntingthorpe Proving Ground near Leicester.



Since then, the VC10 Preservation Group has been trying to establish the future scope of the site and - more importantly - whether there will be any future involvement with aviation. Sadly, at this time it is our considered opinion that there will be none.



Currently, the VC10 Preservation Group is the custodian of former RAF and British Airways VC10 K.4 ZD241 (G-ASGM) and sadly, we feel that the VC10’s fate is now distinctly uncertain. We hope a solution can be reached between the aircraft owners and the new owners of the site at Bruntingthorpe; or perhaps with a possible future move for the aircraft.



While we are aware of these confidential discussionstaking place, the VC10 Preservation Group is not party to them and as a consequence, are unable to make any comment on them.



Until such times as we may have further information, no further statement will be made by the VC10 Preservation Group or anyone purporting to be acting for us.



In the meantime, we wish to thank everyone who has supported us during the last five years – from our initial running of ZD241 right up to the formation of the charity - permitting us to allow our supporters to join us on the aircraft on the unique taxi runs that occurred at Bruntingthorpe.



Bruntingthorpe, 15 June 2020.

[Tankertrashnav]

I wasn't entirely serious; that airframe has a bit of form for going aviating when it shouldn't...

Who's up for some crowd funding to pay Bob Prothero's fine if he can be persuaded to take the job on? ;)

[RAFEngO74to09]

Guess that also means the end of all those ideas that kicked around regarding future flying for the Tristars in the States?

This is the situation on the Tristars - a subject I'm keeping a very close eye on.

The 6 x Tristars are owned by Tristar Air LLC - a subsidiary of publicly traded company Tempus Applied Holdings Inc.

In April 2019, Tristar LLC won the competition for the 2020 USN AAR single award contract - ousting incumbent Omega Air Refueling who at the time only owned 2 x KC-707 and 1 x KDC-10.

Omega Air then protested twice - the grounds of their first protest was denied and the basis of their second protest was in regard to the way the competition was run.

The USN then cancelled the award to Tristar LLC in September 2019 and announced that it now intended to pursue a Multiple Award Contract in 2020 - which by definition is 2 or more companies.

Omega and Tristar Air LLC are currently the only US companies owning large "hose and drogue" tankers - as opposed to Red Air fighter contractors with buddy-buddy pods.

In August 2019, Tempus Applied Holdings created a UK-based entity - Tristar Air UK Ltd.

There is anecdotal evidence that there has been a trawl recently around Brize Norton for Tristar experienced personnel.

The USN request for proposals for the 2020 AAR MAC - after an earlier Industry Day held on 12 Sep 19 and a deadline for comment on the draft RFP by 8 Jan 20 - was issued on 2 Jun 20 with an updated final RFP.

I found it interesting that the RFP now states that all required pilot hours for qualification may be acquired in a simulator - Northrop Grumman has a L-1011 simulator for their Stargazer - and there are multiple references to documentation from the CAA and foreign military authorities being acceptable regarding the history of the aircraft, tanker conversion and airworthiness (as opposed to FAA only as in the original draft).

The deadline for submission of bids - which include specification of startup costs for which significant separate allowances are made - is 8 Jul 20.

In addition, US TRANSCOM / USAF Air Mobility Command is expected to solicit bids to contract out an element of its overall task in June 2020 - 30% of that will be for "hose and drogue".

The latest overhead on Google maps of Bruntingthorpe shows the taxiways to the runway from the Tristar dispersals clear and only one row of cars on the edge of the runway and another adjacent to the runway for part of the length.

Money can talk to get a few cars moved - in fact the contract is potentially so lucrative they could probable afford to buy any cars on the runway and scrap them !.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Bruntingthorpe+Airfield+%26+Proving+Ground/@52.4930621,-1.1281861,572m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487768f8f5bff055:0x66fbbe29423c7eb 2!8m2!3d52.4908292!4d-1.1311932

Details of the progress of the USN 2020 MAC and longer term US TRANSCOM contract opportunities can be viewed at this website https://beta.sam.gov/ by searching on CAS_AAR_RFI and TRANSCOM18R013 respectively. Click on title that comes up and multiple PDFs with the detail will be revealed.

So watch this space !

If anyone lives nearby Bruntingthorpe and sees any work being done on the Tristars - once the site is opened up again when COVID-19 restrictions relax - I would really appreciate a heads up here or by PM !

[jolihokistix]

I remember doing a club track day there in aid of children with cancer. Each bought a ticket and stood in line for the ride of their life in their favourite machine. I had a big cushion on the front seat for those smaller nippers who could not see over the dashboard. Our lot raised the princely sum of £2,000, but it was the look of delight on their faces that made my day. I hammered the car through the infield esses and tried to give everyone a minimum of 160 mph down the small section of runway that was coned off for us. Car gained a few stone chips and needed new brake discs after that day, but it was all worth it.

[NutLoose]

If anyone lives nearby Bruntingthorpe and sees any work being done on the Tristars - once the site is opened up again when COVID-19 restrictions relax - I would really appreciate a heads up here or by PM !

About 20 miles from me, trouble is with the museum now closed access is pretty much none existant. There are people on the Flypast Forums work on the jets there.

Last photos I took were Aug 2018

https://live.staticflickr.com/1847/43048927280_fa47a26f22_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/28A61h9)

https://live.staticflickr.com/1847/43949408725_af37d6e58b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/29XEd3i)

[aw ditor]

Has any anti-det work been carried out on the Tristars?

[jolihokistix]

They look simply beautiful.

[NutLoose]

Why thank you, have some more...

https://live.staticflickr.com/1935/43949493835_a6b9fae62b_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/29XEDkH)



https://live.staticflickr.com/1895/44810143732_f83deb8535_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2bgHGz3)

https://live.staticflickr.com/1942/44810067822_7634da242f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2bgHj1f)

https://live.staticflickr.com/1954/44859768171_fb93e68fab_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2bm73bP)

[Video Mixdown]

They look simply beautiful.
But a bit sad? She really was a beautiful sight parked outside Timmy's hangar at the end of your tour!

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1371x685/ze704_74bd1435ef313d3de543d3c2d948d77bca1ee690.jpg
ZE704

[GeeRam]

Probably a question mark over the Victor and the Comet as well most likely, although it depends on who owns what. Anything owned by D.Walton is most likely the only stuff (and probably the Lightnings given the post above) that will be OK and moved to what ever area near the Q-shed that is on the property still owned by D.Walton.


It appears that, LPG are OK, and the talk of D.Walton looking to set aside some land that wasn't part of the sell off, which is adjacent to the LPG Q-Shed, will be for the Victor, Comet and Nimrod, all 3 of which are all owned by D.Walton. Obviously, the days of Lightning fast runway runs are now over though.
It would appear everything else has been given notice to leave?
I bet the group that bought the ex-Classic Flight NF.11 Meteor to maintain as a taxiable aircraft at Brunty along with the former G-GONE Venom are a bit peeved, as the Meatbox was only delivered on its final flight by Dan Griffith in January last year! They should have chosen to fly it to Kemble instead...!

[RAFEngO74to09]

Has any anti-det work been carried out on the Tristars?
Yes - GJD Services Ltd were paid to keep them in "airworthy storage" at least up to the point when they were bought by Tristar Air LLC in 2018 - that included full power engine runs. I'm not sure what happened after GJD moved to St Athan and whether they were retained to drive up to continue the work..

Facebook says "full power runs" in the caption for this photo
https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21762817_1329980907113306_5145126950019812234_o.jpg?_nc_cat= 102&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=vKGKYdeaOA0AX_UaW-2&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=d1529aa6defb658d1cc77ec60459c5c4&oe=5F0D6BF1

[ErwinS]

A sad affair.

Re the 1011's. No way they will fly out. Years in storage outside in the UK climate. They are years to late to think they will fly again.

[GeeRam]

Yes - GJD Services Ltd were paid to keep them in "airworthy storage" at least up to the point when they were bought by Tristar Air LLC in 2018 - that included full power engine runs. I'm not sure what happened after GJD moved to St Athan and whether they were retained to drive up to continue the work..


Funnily enough, I've just seen posted elsewhere that GJD Services are on site at Brunty this week, dismantling the Brunty Shackleton to move it to the South Wales Aviation Museum, which is nearby GJD's HQ.

[N707ZS]

Does anyone know what might happen to the Guppy.

[Coochycool]

Can anyone on here please elucidate which particular weekend in August the Fast Jet Taxi event is/was pencilled in for?

I'd love to attend should it come to pass, but being up in Darkest Scotland makes spontaneity a bit tricky.

I do hope that common sense prevails and a suitable accommodation can be made to save most if not all of the collection.

Cheers

Cooch

[NutLoose]

No date yet as far as I can see

https://www.bruntingthorpe.com/aviation

https://twitter.com/bruntycwj?lang=en

[Jhieminga]

It was usually during the last weekend of August. But there’s no telling if this year will be the same.

[Coochycool]

Thanks for that gents.

Fingers crossed.

Cooch

[NutLoose]

https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/news/aerodrome/buccaneers-on-the-move-and-aviation-scene-update?utm_campaign=2699891_Airfix%20-%20Aerodrome%20-%20Week%2012%202020%2F2021&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Hornby%20PLC&_%24ja=tsid%3A71284&dm_i=2DJZ,1LV8Z,2AQAZC,5G8W4,1

[Stratofreighter]

Thanks for that gents.

Fingers crossed.

Cooch See the text below taken from Facebook. Posted by a reliable source close to the fire,
but the text below is not publicly-accessible, yet.
Put online this Sunday 12 July 2020.

Cancellation of Cold War Jets open day August 2020.

Following the acquisition of C.Walton Ltd and a lease of land at Bruntingthorpe by Cox Automotive UK Ltd.
the August open day will not take place.
This brings to an end many years of Cold War Jets Open days.

This news will be a huge disappointment to aviation enthusiasts across the UK and worldwide.

Every aircraft based at Bruntingthorpe has its own unique and distinguished history
which has been preserved by teams of dedicated volunteers.

Bruntingthorpe has been the focal point of UK jet aviation preservation for over 30 years.
Many amazing aircraft have been saved, restored and maintained in fast taxi condition.

[Coochycool]

Ouch!

Thanks anyway. I think.....

:{

[Jhieminga]

Looks like the plan is to move one VC10 to Kemble: https://www.gofundme.com/f/vc10-rescue-and-relocation?utm_source=customer&utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link-tip

[KPax]

XN 582 Jet Provost arriving at Sleap from Bruntingthorpe 22 July, it is to be repainted and used for Taxi rides etc.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1920x1440/jp_3460a41647f2eb464570838e5e94b5ef1ef57806.jpg

[golfbananajam]

But a bit sad? She really was a beautiful sight parked outside Timmy's hangar at the end of your tour!

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1371x685/ze704_74bd1435ef313d3de543d3c2d948d77bca1ee690.jpg
ZE704
and often escorted in by this
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1094x441/intercept_2_00355243c2a4dd685e95cb5227bd6b8c75b06d7d.png
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1189x783/intercept_bbde96b21cd1110725a30c28907a7f1d7c8abad0.png

[Video Mixdown]

and often escorted in by this
No - by this : )

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1886x1487/f_4_1435_flt_1_516cdb4492606e4f040f481b2f52ca655481e3ff.jpg

[golfbananajam]

No - by this : )

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1886x1487/f_4_1435_flt_1_516cdb4492606e4f040f481b2f52ca655481e3ff.jpg


sadly, in my day of frequent trips down South, that was not much more than a gate guard, albeit outside the terminal at MPH

[ZD241_VC10]

Looks like the plan is to move one VC10 to Kemble: https://www.gofundme.com/f/vc10-rescue-and-relocation?utm_source=customer&utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link-tip

That’s certainly a potential option.

The long and the short of it is this: the VC10 in it’s taxiing form is almost unique. ZA150 taxies at Dunsfold but we know that site will someday be a housing estate. If there is a chance to keep a LIVE VC10, there is no option but to act now.

The VC10 Rescue and Relocation Project (note this is separate to the VC10 Preservation Group that operate the jet at Bruntingthorpe*) aims to do that. It’s a tall order, and they know that. The jet is privately owned, but to move it the team need to know that the public want the jet to move and survive in some form (we’d love to continue taxiing it); to move it otherwise - commercially - would not make sense.

So, in some ways the project is a bit Vulcan like, in that we have no choice to go cap-in-hand to ask for donations and gauge public opinion and sponsorship.

*fundraising to move the aircraft would does not fall into the VC10 PG’s charitable remit.

[NutLoose]

sadly, in my day of frequent trips down South, that was not much more than a gate guard, albeit outside the terminal at MPH

But part of one lives on in a resident who had a hip job and they needed a titanium bolt if my memory serves me correctly.

[sharpend]

Looks like the plan is to move one VC10 to Kemble: https://www.gofundme.com/f/vc10-rescue-and-relocation?utm_source=customer&utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link-tip

That is indeed the plan, but the cost of the move is high and money is scarce. I'm told there is a chance the VC10 may be broken for scrap. This would be a terrible shame. I have pledged and if it did move to Kemble, then I would be happy to be a volunteer. I have suggested several others fund raising methods to the Brunty team, so hopefully we will get there.

[NutLoose]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x540/106683455_161088095553792_9141910141934239389_n_17c13a24e652 7cab84ed46c8325c90d1040c1c86.jpg

[NutLoose]

Tow it ;)

[Minnie Burner]

Renamed Bluntythorpe?

[NutLoose]

Personally I think it is a tragedy and the country has lost the only real place where one could see cold war jets still operating, the site was a National treasure and the collection is now being dispersed around the country, with some rare aircraft now facing the real chances of being scrapped. I do also feel the previous owner has left some people in a perilous place such as the owner of the Vampire and Meteor who had the aircraft flown in only recently.

[GeeRam]

I do also feel the previous owner has left some people in a perilous place such as the owner of the Vampire and Meteor who had the aircraft flown in only recently.

Yeah, the group that bought the Vamp and the NF Meatbox must be especially hacked off........given Dan Griffith only flew the NF into there for its final flight at the beginning of 2019...!

I can't believe that the site owners were not already in discussion about the business sale at that time given when they made the announcement of the sale of the business.

[SpringHeeledJack]

Personally I think it is a tragedy and the country has lost the only real place where one could see cold war jets still operating, the site was a National treasure and the collection is now being dispersed around the country, with some rare aircraft now facing the real chances of being scrapped. I do also feel the previous owner has left some people in a perilous place such as the owner of the Vampire and Meteor who had the aircraft flown in only recently.

Assuming that it is possible weight-wise, couldn't the good people at Odiham use this as a training exercise to relocate the Vampire and Meteor, at least to a suitable runway where they could then relaunch at a later date to a new home ?

[Green Flash]

Its happened before https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/chinock-helicopter-moves-a-historic-gloster-meteor-t-7-jet-news-photo/167183475

[Jhieminga]

Keep in mind that transporting stuff that way usually involves a 'drop clause' in case the load starts to get unstable and endanger the helicopter.

[Green Flash]

True, but a risk worth taking when the other option is to leave in a skip?

[Green Flash]

Looking at it again, I wonder if, with the wings off as per the underslung, it could be towed off site?

[ATSA1]

I remember when they moved Concorde G-BBDG from Filton to Brooklands in bits...its certainly do able! I overtook part of "Delta Golf" on the M4, so I can safetly say that a Ford Mondeo can go faster than Concorde!

[NutLoose]

You won't lift this though

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x388/forum_heading_titled_212798a55a27926561742f1096c44f28864ca3c 8.jpg

[Herod]

Just ask the RAF. You'll have to give 24 hours notice, since it would class as a miracle. It's only the impossible they do immediately.

[lonsdale2]

Buccaneers now at Kemble. Earlier today they travelled down the M5 on the last leg of their journey.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x930/dsc06088_679cd42677b514cc333dba3ebca2fbf72e3a65e3.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1600x978/dsc06121_b7723c3faed15840a96f60a7d77e03ae26f78e6c.jpg

[NutLoose]

What about the other one?

Its a bloody shame this is happening, especially at this time when monies are tight all round.

[NutLoose]

Happier days.. Sadly now gone.

https://live.staticflickr.com/1895/29291793367_66129848e9_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LCq6E8)Buccaneers Bruntingthorpe trio (https://flic.kr/p/LCq6E8) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/1882/29318972027_9d6ba07ebb_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/LEPoVH)Buccaneers return (https://flic.kr/p/LEPoVH) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/1860/30776151218_9a1de6874c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NTzPwS)Buccaneer 020 roll (https://flic.kr/p/NTzPwS) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/1978/44244330305_aa09182309_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2apHKX8)16sqn Buccaneer (https://flic.kr/p/2apHKX8) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/1888/44178824922_0bd1df1ee8_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2aiW2tY)Buccaneers Bruntingthorpe 2012 (https://flic.kr/p/2aiW2tY) by Tony Taylor (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142550108@N08/), on Flickr


Pics by me..

[GeeRam]

What about the other one?


Not Buccaneer Aviation Group.

[NutLoose]

K it’s a runner too, is it planning to move, I know they have said everything is safe and nothing will be scrapped, I think the yanks have missed a golden opportunity to develop parts of the site.

[GeeRam]

I know they have said everything is safe and nothing will be scrapped,

Only the stuff that is directly owned by D.Walton (plus the LPG)

Question mark still hangs over everything else.

[NutLoose]

................
We confirm that the Aviation activities carried on at Bruntingthorpe were not acquired by Cox Automotive when they acquired the automotive vehicle services business of C Walton Ltd in March of this year. The Aviation activities, including responsibility for the historic aircraft, remain under the control of a Company owned by the former Directors of C Walton Ltd.

There are no plans to scrap any of the historic British aircraft currently onsite. We have reached agreement with a number of organisations to rehome several of the historic aircraft and are actively pursuing the possibility of establishing an aviation museum upon land adjacent to the Airfield at Bruntingthorpe, but there are a number of practical implications which will determine whether this will ultimately be viable.

As and when there is any further information we shall make further announcements, but in the meantime we confirm that whilst we are working with Cox Automotive upon the possibility of hosting aircraft adjacent to the main entrance gate house, they are not involved in the day to day aspects of managing the Aviation activities and attempting to safeguard the historic British aircraft.

All further enquiries concerning the Aviation activities formerly carried out at Bruntingthorpe, and the historic aircraft, should be directed to Dave Walton at [email protected].

Dave Walton

20 July 2020


https://www.bruntingthorpe.com/aviation

[GeeRam]

That's doesn't cover everything, especially not the Tristars and VC10's, and the 2 x 747's owned by others.

VC-10 Group stopped their Gofundme early this week to move one to St.Athan and are refunding the donations.

Their statement this week.

"It’s with great sadness from the VC10 rescue and relocation team from Bruntingthorpe looking after ZD241 & ZA147 that we have now closed down the go fund me fundraising campaign and go fund me are now in the process of returning your very kind donations.

Unfortunately we’ve been unable to raise anything close to our huge target and after 1 month of fundraising we raised £4814. It’s at this point were we are required to withdraw funding and at that point it starts to cost the group money. The decision was taken to allow the fundraising run for one month then look at how much money had been raised. Given the small amount raised against our target it was time to close the account down and refund everyone.

The VC10 team would like to thank everyone who took the time to donate and raise awareness of our rescue campaign. If we’d have had a longer time scale I truly believe we could have raised the funds but sadly time was always against us.

So what happens next: We have until 31st October to move the jets and at that point should they still be at Bruntingthorpe then court action will be taken against the aircraft’s owner and it then will be up to him to remove them.
We don’t know at this point what the future holds for the two Brunty VC10’s and we will keep you all up to date of any information we get.
Thank you for all your help"

[Compass Call]

Does anybody have any news of the fate of the Sea Vixen?
It would be a crying shame if she was turned into saucepans.

[ZD241_VC10]

That's doesn't cover everything, especially not the Tristars and VC10's, and the 2 x 747's owned by others.

VC-10 Group stopped their Gofundme early this week to move one to St.Athan and are refunding the donations.

They did indeed. Unfortunately - as some expected - the Rescue and Relocation Project didn’t generate the public support required.

As an aside, the last statement from Bruntingthorpe (quoted above) came very (very) soon after a request from us to film a supporting piece at ZD241 with BBC News, which was denied.

So what happens next: We have until 31st October to move the jets and at that point should they still be at Bruntingthorpe then court action will be taken against the aircraft’s owner and it then will be up to him to remove them.
We don’t know at this point what the future holds for the two Brunty VC10’s and we will keep you all up to date of any information we get.
Thank you for all your help"

Slightly inaccurate wording in the statement. I think “may be taken” and I believe they are formally owned by a company, not an individual.

[pr00ne]

ZD241 VC10,

Aren't there quite a few VC10's preserved elsewhere? Seeing as there was only a production run of 54 isn't the type adequately represented?

[ZD241_VC10]

ZD241 VC10,

Aren't there quite a few VC10's preserved elsewhere? Seeing as there was only a production run of 54 isn't the type adequately represented?

This is a very good point missed by many, particularly if you were looking at justification in finding funds from other sources (grants, lottery etc). Hence when we did the BBC article (and had plans for the TV news) we focussed on both it RAF and BA heritage, as that is it’s unique point.

But as you infer, taking out ZD241, ZA147 and ZA150 (Dunsfold housing estate), you still have complete examples (for now) in Germany, Brooklands, Duxford, Cosford and Newquay.

[pr00ne]

ZD241 VC10,

So, around 10% of all VC10's ever built are safely preserved.

Sad for those with an (understandable) emotional attachment to ZD241 and ZA147 I know.

If there are funds available then surely they would be better aimed at the sole surviving Beverly in East Yorkshire.?

[NutLoose]

They are runners which is unique, I know 150 does, but wasn’t that one a bit of a corrosion case?

its a shame it can’t be ferried wheels down... I know it’s sat for xyz years etc but it has been run and having worked / robbed the aircraft that were at Abingdon and were ferried, they are in way way better condition, they were rotten.

[ZD241_VC10]

They are runners which is unique, I know 150 does, but wasn’t that one a bit of a corrosion case?

its a shame it can’t be ferried wheels down... I know it’s sat for xyz years etc but it has been run and having worked / robbed the aircraft that were at Abingdon and were ferried, they are in way way better condition, they were rotten.

Very much so. If there wasn’t the threat of prison I suspect most of the ‘241 crew would happily fly her gear and flaps fixed tomorrow she’s been that well looked after and kept in working condition.

Not sure about corrosion on ‘150. ‘241 has had a bit of anti-corrosion work done in the past couple/three years.

[Jhieminga]

ZD241 VC10,

Aren't there quite a few VC10's preserved elsewhere? Seeing as there was only a production run of 54 isn't the type adequately represented?
See here: https://www.vc10.net/History/preserved.html
The current proceedings will of course change that situation significantly. The taxiable status of ZA150 and ZD241 made them special, but with both venues either sold or under threat I guess we've seen the end of that era. Still, keeping them going for the past seven years was a major undertaking and both the team at Dunsfold and at Bruntingthorpe should be commended for all the work they've put into preserving these airframes for us to enjoy.

[ZD241_VC10]

See here: https://www.vc10.net/History/preserved.html
The current proceedings will of course change that situation significantly. The taxiable status of ZA150 and ZD241 made them special, but with both venues either sold or under threat I guess we've seen the end of that era. Still, keeping them going for the past seven years was a major undertaking and both the team at Dunsfold and at Bruntingthorpe should be commended for all the work they've put into preserving these airframes for us to enjoy.

Thanks Jelle. There have been challenges, but seeing the smiles as people get off the jet after a fast run has made it all worthwhile. Kids, enthusiasts, former child pax on both civvy and mil VC10s, and former VC10 crew.

[DuckDodgers]

Rumour has it Meta Aerospace is trying to divest of the Tri* on behalf of their owners.

[GeeRam]

Rumour has it Meta Aerospace is trying to divest of the Tri* on behalf of their owners.

Also expect an official announcement shorty regarding the VC-10's.....after yesterday's social media mess-up. Or at least the one not at Brunty?

[Krystal n chips]

This is a very good point missed by many, particularly if you were looking at justification in finding funds from other sources (grants, lottery etc). Hence when we did the BBC article (and had plans for the TV news) we focussed on both it RAF and BA heritage, as that is it’s unique point.

But as you infer, taking out ZD241, ZA147 and ZA150 (Dunsfold housing estate), you still have complete examples (for now) in Germany, Brooklands, Duxford, Cosford and Newquay.

This article may be of interest.....

https://ukaviation.news/kepler-aerospace-aims-to-get-former-raf-vc10-flying-again/?fbclid=IwAR2kQjEN

[ZD241_VC10]

Also expect an official announcement shorty regarding the VC-10's.....after yesterday's social media mess-up. Or at least the one not at Brunty?

When we know something we’ll try and let everyone know in a coherent manner with as much fact as possible.:)

Yesterday, well, was almost a surprise (almost because we knew the email existed). And now the article Krystal has posted exists, so...:ok:

[GeeRam]

With the Guppy having been broken up at Brunty a few weeks ago, the VC-10's have now been moved onto the scrapping pan in readiness for getting the chop next..... :(

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x480/jn1qrdda_dd80e87706b7e9a1e6ef02ab65eac1da5a997622.jpg

[NutLoose]

Disgusted


says it all.

[happybiker]

Disgusted


says it all.
Sorry for the thread drift but I agree with you our history of preservation is poor, I am still wondering how we did not preseve HMS Vanguard.

[GeeRam]

Sorry for the thread drift but I agree with you our history of preservation is poor, I am still wondering how we did not preseve HMS Vanguard.

Vanguard was a post WW2 ship that really saw little service, and just because it was the last doesn't make it the 'one that got away'.

While we can't save/keep everything, we should have preserved one battleship, and that really should have been KGV, with it's WW2 service, and given it wasn't scrapped until 1957, that's perhaps far more of a travesty.

[ZD241_VC10]

With the Guppy having been broken up at Brunty a few weeks ago, the VC-10's have now been moved onto the scrapping pan in readiness for getting the chop next..... :(

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/720x480/jn1qrdda_dd80e87706b7e9a1e6ef02ab65eac1da5a997622.jpg

At the risk of sounding like a fact checker, the VC10s have been moved onto the pan that they were living on before they were moved to allow the scrapping of the 747 and Guppy.

No confirmed status update yet.

[GeeRam]

So, its not true then that there is an impending £25k rent demand due in January, which if not paid then the aircraft get the chop....?

[ZD241_VC10]

So, its not true then that there is an impending £25k rent demand due in January, which if not paid then the aircraft get the chop....?

Someone did post that on social media. It might be true, it might not be. We do not know.

[ZD241_VC10]

Disgusted


says it all.

Sadly there’s no real viable alternative, other than the owner putting his hand in his pocket and getting several hundred thousand pounds out. Money he could never recoup from either taxiing it or as a museum piece, on an asset sadly worth only a fraction of that.

And this owner is responsible for ‘808 being at Cosford, ‘148 being at Newquay and to an extent ‘150 at Dunsfold. In addition he’s also mainly responsible for the preservation of several forward fuselages/flightdecks (‘104, ‘109, ‘108, ‘106, ‘149).

[NutLoose]

Shame about 108, was it was offered complete I believe, but would have overhung the boundary of the aero park so got “shortened” it’s a crying shame that room cannot be made for these, when you think of the 10 the footprint 8n the site is negligible as you can park under the wings.

[ZD241_VC10]

Shame about 108, was it was offered complete I believe, but would have overhung the boundary of the aero park so got “shortened” it’s a crying shame that room cannot be made for these, when you think of the 10 the footprint 8n the site is negligible as you can park under the wings.

Unfortunately parking under the wings is not an option and could be very expensive.

[GeeRam]

And this owner is responsible for ‘808 being at Cosford, ‘148 being at Newquay and to an extent ‘150 at Dunsfold. In addition he’s also mainly responsible for the preservation of several forward fuselages/flightdecks (‘104, ‘109, ‘108, ‘106, ‘149).

I'm guessing the two at Brunty will be parts salvaged as much as poss for a spares package to go to the new owners of '150...?

(not that I think in all reality that's ever likely to see air under its wings again)

[morton]

Oh well, onwards and upwards! Or is it Per ardua ad astra?
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x646/vc10_up_a_ffd49e04b69564c551c84754ba60e5c2249e16b2.jpg

[Fareastdriver]

That's what you would call dragging it in.

[Herod]

Just firewall the throttles and you're away.

[chevvron]

But as you infer, taking out ZD241, ZA147 and ZA150 (Dunsfold housing estate), you still have complete examples (for now) in Germany, Brooklands, Duxford, Cosford and Newquay.
Dunsfold housing estate plans delayed; the VC10 was recently joined by 2 x ex BA '747s.

[chevvron]

There's a list on Flyer Forums showing airframes which rhe RAF Museum is considering disposing of; sorry no link published.

[spitfirek5054]

RAF Museum Disposals:

Auster Antarctic WE600 Relevance
Avro 707C WZ744 Significance
Bristol Sycamore XJ918 Duplication
DH Devon C.2 VP952 Significance/Interpretative potential
DH Moth G-AAMX Relevance
Fairchild Cornell II 15252 Relevance/Completeness
Focke-Wulf Fw 190F-8/U1 WkNr.584219 Significance/Duplication
Gloster Meteor F.4 EE549 Significance On loan to Tangmere Military Aviation Museum
Gloster Meteor T.7(mod) WA634 Duplication
Gloster Meteor F.8 Prone Pilot WK935 Duplication
Hafner Rotachute III P-5 Relevance On loan to Army Flying Museum
Hang-glider (civil) Relevance
Hawker P.1052 VX272 Significance On loan to Fleet Air Arm Museum
Hawker P.1127 XP831 Significance On loan to the Science Museum
Hawker Hunter F,1 WT619 Relevance
Hawker Hunter Mk.3 WB188 Significance On loan to Tangmere Military Aviation Museum
Lockheed SP-2H Neptune 204 Relevance/Environment
NA B-25J Mitchell 44-29366 Relevance
NA P-51D Mustang 44-73415 Duplication/Completeness
Panavia Tornado XX946 Relevance
SA Jetstream T.1 XX496 Relevance/Environment
Slingsby Sedbergh TX.1 VX275 Relevance
Sopwith Tabloid replica 168 Originality/Significance
Supermarine 517 VV106 Significance On loan to Fleet Air Arm Museum
Vickers Vimy replica F8614 Originality/Significance
Westalnd Dragnfly HR.1 VX595 Relevance/Significance

[Herod]

Ref the list. I would add that it is only "consideration". You will note that many on there are already on loan to other museums. Don't jump to conclusions.

[chevvron]

'Slingsby Sedbergh TX1 VX 275 - relevance'.
Particularly relevant to me considering I Cat 5d it in 1967!! Only reason it wasn't written off was because it was a presentation aircraft.
(Flew it several times after it was re-built by Slingsbys the last time being at White Waltham in '79).

[Jhieminga]

Shame about 108, was it was offered complete I believe, but would have overhung the boundary of the aero park so got “shortened”
The problem was that the Aeropark is too close to the runway. The tail of the VC10 would have created an obstacle that would interfere with the obstacle limitation surfaces around the runway.

[NutLoose]

Couldn’t they lower it?

[SLXOwft]

So the original Hunter, and one time World Airspeed Record holder as an F Mk.3, WB188 has no significance to the RAF Museum, nor does one of only two extant F Mk1s have relevance?

VV106 the 'prototype' Swift - granted a half-way house between an Attacker and an actual Swift doesn't have significance.

I would love to know what the criteria are for Significance and Relevance.:ugh:

I wonder if DEagles has views on the potential disposal of the first UK Tornado Prototype XX946?

"Our purpose is to share the story of the Royal Air Force, past, present and future – using the stories of its people and our collections in order to engage, inspire and encourage learning.The Royal Air Force has shaped our nation and our society. It has influenced how we live our lives today through its impact on world events, society and technology." From the RAFM Mission Statement.

[GeeRam]

Meatbox EE549 is also a former World Speed Record holder as well, when Grp.Capt Donaldson of the High Speed Flight achieved 616mph in 1946.

Hopefully both aircraft will stay at Tangmere museum.

The other one that I'm surprised to see listed, is the Fw190 A-8/U-1, which for many years was kept in running condition at St.Athan. Its the only surviving 2-seat Fw190, and one of only a few non-crash site recovered examples in existence, and the only Fw190 on the RAFM books. So, quite how someone at RAFM can quote that as being 'duplication' is beyond my understanding :confused:

[NutLoose]

The one that gets me on the list is the

SA Jetstream T.1 XX496 Relevance/Environment


Environment is possibly because it is parked outside.......... except it used to be parked inside but was shuffled outside to form a corporate entertaining area ( along with the Catalina ) to allow the running of corporate fund raisers.

It always struck me as a self licking lollipop, you build an entertainment area to raise funding for the preservation of the aircraft in the museum, but in doing so you put the said aircraft outside subject to the environment, which brings forward the need to carry out preservation work on the aircraft earlier due to the fact they are no longer in a stable safe internal environment. Hence the funding raised is offset against the increase costing of looking after the said aircraft.
The priority should be to the aircraft in the museum and those that they cannot look after properly should be used as exchanges for those that are more “relevant”

[typerated]

RAF Museum Disposals:

Auster Antarctic WE600 Relevance
Avro 707C WZ744 Significance
Bristol Sycamore XJ918 Duplication
DH Devon C.2 VP952 Significance/Interpretative potential
DH Moth G-AAMX Relevance
Fairchild Cornell II 15252 Relevance/Completeness
Focke-Wulf Fw 190F-8/U1 WkNr.584219 Significance/Duplication
Gloster Meteor F.4 EE549 Significance On loan to Tangmere Military Aviation Museum
Gloster Meteor T.7(mod) WA634 Duplication
Gloster Meteor F.8 Prone Pilot WK935 Duplication
Hafner Rotachute III P-5 Relevance On loan to Army Flying Museum
Hang-glider (civil) Relevance
Hawker P.1052 VX272 Significance On loan to Fleet Air Arm Museum
Hawker P.1127 XP831 Significance On loan to the Science Museum
Hawker Hunter F,1 WT619 Relevance
Hawker Hunter Mk.3 WB188 Significance On loan to Tangmere Military Aviation Museum
Lockheed SP-2H Neptune 204 Relevance/Environment
NA B-25J Mitchell 44-29366 Relevance
NA P-51D Mustang 44-73415 Duplication/Completeness
Panavia Tornado XX946 Relevance
SA Jetstream T.1 XX496 Relevance/Environment
Slingsby Sedbergh TX.1 VX275 Relevance
Sopwith Tabloid replica 168 Originality/Significance
Supermarine 517 VV106 Significance On loan to Fleet Air Arm Museum
Vickers Vimy replica F8614 Originality/Significance
Westalnd Dragnfly HR.1 VX595 Relevance/Significance



I have to say it does not bother me - there are more than plenty preserved aircraft to see.
Not everything has to be saved.

Also, I presume the RAFM budget comes from the defence budget - if so then they should have higher priorities to spend money on!

Tin hat on!

[Archimedes]

It does, I fear, raise profound questions about what the RAFM is for, or - more precisely - the knowledge of some of those involved - see the inclusion of the Avro 707C (which for 'interpretive relevance' ought to be sitting underneath the Vulcan with explanations of delta wings and so on).

There are a couple of Meteors in the RAFM collection, but the Prone Position Meteor is unique. You might as well argue that the FD2 should go (never in RAF service) and join the World Record holders at Tangmere. The idea that the PP Meteor is a 'duplicate' is... 'daft' seems a polite way of putting it. The Hunter F3 being not too significant (and the Meteor) is also hints at a lack of understanding of what they're dealing with, although I can see a case for saying that the Hunter and the Meteor should be gifted to Tangmere where their significance will be appreciated. They've binned one Hunter F1 before - the one which sits on a building roof - so the idea that an early Hunter isn't relevant (despite being the first successful indigenous swept-wing fighter for the RAF, etc) isn't surprising in some ways.

Likewise, the Neptune - yes, it's a Dutch aircraft and the wrong version, but if repainted (see the Britannia at Cosford, which was a civilian airframe) it could serve as some recognition of Coastal Command during the Cold War - what with Cosford being the Cold War Museum and all that... The fact that the kipper fleet isn't recognised at all bar references to the RAF using the Catalina and the Neptune is a major oversight; that's not in any way to overlook the R1, but 51 wasn't known for its ASW/ASuW work... Again, the word 'environment' appears, and since I remember going to see it aged 9/10 (so some years ago...) with a school friend shortly after it had gone on display outdoors I assume that this means that there's concern, or worse yet evidence, that it's on its last (oleo) legs.

I do wonder if 'duplication' shows a worrying lack of understanding that if you've got a Spitfire I and a Spitfire 22, you don't dispose of one of them 'because we've already got a Spitfire'...

[Archimedes]

I have to say it does not bother me - there are more than plenty preserved aircraft to see.
Not everything has to be saved.

Also, I presume the RAFM budget comes from the defence budget - if so then they should have higher priorities to spend money on!

Tin hat on!

All you ever wanted to know about RAFM funding sources (https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/freedom_of_information/What_we_spend_and%20how/Financial-Framework-Document.pdf) (and things you probably didn't)

[NutLoose]

Define relevant...

If a Slingsby Sedbergh TX1 isn’t relevant to the RAF museum, then where the heck does a Dornier DO17 dragged out of the North Sea fit in? And if the Dornier is relevant then why did they dispose of the JU52 and HE111, true the latter was a Spanish Merlin powered variant, but HE111 it was.


..

[ExAscoteer2]

The fact that the kipper fleet isn't recognised at all bar references to the RAF using the Catalina and the Neptune is a major oversight; that's not in any way to overlook the R1, but 51 wasn't known for its ASW/ASuW work.

TBF XV249 was an MR long before it became an R1.

[pasta]

If a Slingsby Sedbergh TX1 isn’t relevant to the RAF museum
I suppose it's because you can't drop bombs or fire guns or missiles out of it.

That said, there's a very good story floating around about a flour bombing competition. Apparently the occupants of this particular T21 decided to liven things up by releasing their ordnance at the top of a loop; all was going well until they arrived back at the bottom of the loop, only to have the bomb reappear in the cockpit...

[Jhieminga]

Couldn’t they lower it?
Like this? ;)

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/742x411/screenshot_2021_01_01_at_22_10_37_974e964f5a4d524792121b1a6c 3de72c79064c6e.png
Source: https://english.radio.cz/british-artist-buries-mig-21-fighter-jet-symbolize-end-era-8180523

[NutLoose]

Rather like these

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2010/jun/28/fiona-banner-tate-britain


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x423/image_ccf3327e30db75bbff655633cdeb4fa838ff4c5c.jpeg



https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x988/image_45631bb72de88a7e6c880662ca7890357b5af4b1.jpeg


and then

https://hastingsonlinetimes.co.uk/arts-culture/visual-arts/ambitious-art-exhibition-opens-at-the-jerwood


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x480/image_62a8d6c98bdda27bd854ae2446469cd66f37e279.jpeg

[NutLoose]

Or the Tornado cast into a bell

Tornado - Fiona Banner - Great North Run Culture (http://greatnorthrunculture.org/aboutcommission3c89.html?commid=56&year=2010)

[Shackman]

As Archimedes says: Likewise, the Neptune - yes, it's a Dutch aircraft and the wrong version, but if repainted (see the Britannia at Cosford, which was a civilian airframe) it could serve as some recognition of Coastal Command during the Cold War - what with Cosford being the Cold War Museum and all that... The fact that the kipper fleet isn't recognised at all bar references to the RAF using the Catalina and the Neptune is a major oversight; that's not in any way to overlook the R1, but 51 wasn't known for its ASW/ASuW work...

You could then ask what happened to the 6 (yes- Six) Shackleton MR 2s delivered there in the early 70's, including one 'polished up' for display purposes. Last seen on the large dispersal at the Western end of the airfield.

[ZH875]

As Archimedes says: .

You could then ask what happened to the 6 (yes- Six) Shackleton MR 2s delivered there in the early 70's, including one 'polished up' for display purposes. Last seen on the large dispersal at the Western end of the airfield.
they were used for student training, one was sent to Manchester Air and Space Museum instead of the 'Haunted' Lincoln. If no longer at Cosford then probably in the pots and pans section of the Argos catalogue

[Herod]

Woe betide anyone who removes the "haunted" Lincoln from Cosford. They might well wake up one night to find the ghost standing at the foot of their bed.:eek:

[NutLoose]

Haunted?

I took an old friend who is sadly no longer with us to see it a few years back, he had logged quite a few hours in it as an ATC Cadet and it was on his bucket list to see it one more time, ( Cosford were great and let him wander around it once more ) they had searched high and low to find the pilot that had adopted them to find he had passed a year prior to tracking him down, the guy used to take them flying then drive them home, so that's a couple more ghosts now on board.

Picture of Saint Jim, he should never have let me take it. ;)

https://live.staticflickr.com/8078/28968986294_a46abdcd00_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/L8TCmW)