Jetstar to reopen NZ domestic from 01 JULY

[Chris2303]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/121718183/coronavirus-jetstar-planning-return-of-nz-domestic-services-following-months-of-hibernation

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

I think the article is a little misleading as the July schedule was never cancelled by JQ.

Once NZ gets to level 1 restrictions (where the middle seat doesn’t need to be blocked) I have no doubt JQ will ramp up flying, as they are beginning to in Aus domestic.

[Ragnor]

Is JQ ramping up in Aus also?

[Lookleft]

A lot of NB pilots are getting revalidated in the sim. The word is they will be reestablishing a big chunk of their domestic network and TT but only out of the bigger bases.

[Ollie Onion]

There is a new schedule for July published on Jetstar.com now for NZ so the article is technically right.

[Chad Gates]

Is JQ ramping up in Aus also?

it’s a start


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1190/7e62965b_f206_4fb6_b799_ac30ace5e962_3da75ebf460b31ca5b6d797 cc6200478ca0f6156.jpeg

[HOOROO]

Jetstar use the Air New Zealand sim centre in Auckland for training their pilots when they aren’t required to be sent to Melbourne. A very reputable source has said that shortly after that article was published, the remaining sims planned by Jetstar were cancelled by Air New Zealand. After a discussion was had between CEO’s and NZALPA, the sims were reinstated but the anticompetitive behaviour leaves a sour taste.

[ElZilcho]

Or perhaps because Air NZ recently made approximately 100 Airbus FO’s redundant who need replacing via down-training as Domestic (and shortly Tasman) flying picks back up.

The SIMS (except for 777) will be working 24/7 to facilitate all the seat changes so reserving sim slots for the Aussies might not of been overly practical.

But hey, if we want to talk about anti-competive, let’s talk about the the Aussie Airline who ditched NZ Domestic during COVID (while we had to fly virtually empty Aircraft for essential services) swooping back in with $30 tickets after applying Australian laws to NZ employees and standing everyone down on zero pay. Seems fair.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Or perhaps because Air NZ recently made approximately 100 Airbus FO’s redundant who need replacing via down-training as Domestic (and shortly Tasman) flying picks back up.

The SIMS (except for 777) will be working 24/7 to facilitate all the seat changes so reserving sim slots for the Aussies might not of been overly practical.

But hey, if we want to talk about anti-competive, let’s talk about the the Aussie Airline who ditched NZ Domestic during COVID (while we had to fly virtually empty Aircraft for essential services) swooping back in with $30 tickets after applying Australian laws to NZ employees and standing everyone down on zero pay. Seems fair.

werent those air NZ services subsidised by the govt?

[ElZilcho]

werent those air NZ services subsidised by the govt?

They were a condition of the loan agreement, which hasn’t been touched due to the eye watering interest rate attached to it.

Freight Flights were subsidised, as part a multi Airline arrangement.

[HOOROO]

Or perhaps because Air NZ recently made approximately 100 Airbus FO’s redundant who need replacing via down-training as Domestic (and shortly Tasman) flying picks back up.

The SIMS (except for 777) will be working 24/7 to facilitate all the seat changes so reserving sim slots for the Aussies might not of been overly practical

But hey, if we want to talk about anti-competive, let’s talk about the the Aussie Airline who ditched NZ Domestic during COVID (while we had to fly virtually empty Aircraft for essential services) swooping back in with $30 tickets after applying Australian laws to NZ employees and standing everyone down on zero pay. Seems fair.

The timing of the sim cancelations after the article is too much of a coincidence. The New Zealand media have basically said nothing about Jetstar New Zealand over the last couple of months and then soon as an article comes out about Jetstar ramping up, the sims get cancelled

I agree with your point about practicality, but I would have thought Air New Zealand would be wanting as much revenue coming in as possible. A third party hiring the sim in the double figures this month alone seems like a good revenue stream.

I don’t make the decisions high up but I do know I’ve received full pay the last 2 months

[ElZilcho]

How long ago were the slots booked? Was it always the plan to ramp back up now, or (like Air NZ) was it a case of last minute “wait, people can leisure travel now?” with the NZ government flip flopping every other day with their COVID restrictions?

The timing is an interesting coincidence, but as you alluded, I can’t see us turning down the revenue.

I often suspect situations such as this look sinister on the surface when in reality someone just F’d up! I can see some Air NZ manager reading the paper during their morning ablutions to suddenly realise “****! Don’t we need those sim slots?”

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

They were a condition of the loan agreement, which hasn’t been touched due to the eye watering interest rate attached to it.

Freight Flights were subsidised, as part a multi Airline arrangement.

so how was JQ not flying for the 2 months of COVID restrictions anti competitive?

[ANstar]

Or perhaps because Air NZ recently made approximately 100 Airbus FO’s redundant who need replacing via down-training as Domestic (and shortly Tasman) flying picks back up.

The SIMS (except for 777) will be working 24/7 to facilitate all the seat changes so reserving sim slots for the Aussies might not of been overly practical.

But hey, if we want to talk about anti-competive, let’s talk about the the Aussie Airline who ditched NZ Domestic during COVID (while we had to fly virtually empty Aircraft for essential services) swooping back in with $30 tickets after applying Australian laws to NZ employees and standing everyone down on zero pay. Seems fair.


I believe the choice was redundancy or leave without pay... what option would you choose? The poor guys at Air NZ didn't get the same choice did they?

And the devil Aussie airline wasn't being underwritten by the NZ govt to allow services to continue. NZ was only operating as they were being underwritten by the government.

[ElZilcho]

so how was JQ not flying for the 2 months of COVID restrictions anti competitive?

A selective quote from my original post taken out of context.

JQ did not suffer the same cash burn on this side of the ditch as Air NZ and avoided redundancy costs. I’m all too familiar with the QF group cherry picking between NZ & AUS employment laws and regulations when it suits them. They fend off FWA with one arm claiming NZ contracts while brushing the ERA aside with other citing they’re an “Australian company”.

Anyway, NZ and QF are dealing with their own battles at home, but as J* is such a small operator here they’ve avoided the spotlight. While we deal with a grumpy public demanding refunds for flights, many Longhual and some nit even cancelled yet, JQ comes to the rescue with below cost Airfares having spent the last few months ducking for cover.

BOTH Air NZ and QF can be as bad as each other. My original post, which you cherry picked one line from, simply gave a less sinister explanation as to why Air NZ might of cancelled the SIM slots. If we go looking for it, it’s not hard to come up with potential examples of Anti-Competitive behaviour from both Airlines over the years, as I just did. Let’s be honest, anyone selling tickets for $34 post COVID will be raiding the piggy bank to do so.

I believe the choice was redundancy or leave without pay... what option would you choose? The poor guys at Air NZ didn't get the same choice did they?

And the devil Aussie airline wasn't being underwritten by the NZ govt to allow services to continue. NZ was only operating as they were being underwritten by the government.

Well that also be a case of constructive dismissal as you cannot force an employee to accept LWOP in NZ. J*/JC & VANZ Pilots fell through the cracks between Wellington and Canberra. If Air NZ tried that on it’d be before the ERA and on the front page of every paper in the country.

As for those flights being underwritten, the loan hasn’t been touched due to the interest rate. We’re still burning our own cash at the moment.

[Lookleft]

They have always advertised the lowest fare which get sold out very quickly its been a part of the marketing from day one. What most people will discover is that those cheap seats are sold very quickly and the $150.00 one way to Dunedin fare will be the norm. Not anti-competitive just marketing.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

Let’s be honest, anyone selling tickets for $34 post COVID will be raiding the piggy bank to do so.

So you’re upset that a low fares airline is offering low fares?

If you look closely next time you taxi us you’ll see it written on the side of the plane!

All day, everyday!

[ElZilcho]

So you’re upset that a low fares airline is offering low fares?
If you look closely next time you taxi us you’ll see it written on the side of the plane!

All day, everyday!


Again, take my whole post in and not one line of it.

Air NZ cancels sim slots for J* ahead of the largest down-training programme any of us will (likely) see in our careers but the first mention of it here is that it’s anti-competitive.

JQ (QF) apply Australian employment regulations (LWOP) to NZ crew through way of an ultimatum, with Billions in the bank, but that’s not anti-competitive, just good business. Bit like Ryan Air having all their Pilots “self employed via companies setup in Ireland” so they can avoid the majority of the EU laws and taxes.

Anything can be claimed as anti-competitive or just good business practise if we squint hard enough and look at it sideways... as is often the case here. Strange how JQ is basically the devil when we’re talking about Australian aviation, but over this side of the ditch? Nah it’s all good mate.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

JQ (QF) apply Australian employment regulations (LWOP) to NZ crew through way of an ultimatum, with Billions in the bank, but that’s not anti-competitive, just good business.

No, they had a vote to amend their agreement to include stand down provisions in line with NZ industrial relations law.

In doing so there have been no redundancies (thus far) as opposed to Air NZ and VANZ.

[StudentInDebt]

So, anyway, flying or not flying from July 1st? :)

[Buster Hyman]

I blame Trevor Chappell for the direction this thread is going!

[KiwiAvi8er]

No, they had a vote to amend their agreement to include stand down provisions in line with NZ industrial relations law.

In doing so there have been no redundancies (thus far) as opposed to Air NZ and VANZ.

And if they didn’t vote for the stand down provisions what would have happened? An HPE group formed to map out concerns?? :D

[empacher48]

Where is the like button for posts on here!!

JQ does what JQ does and sells low fares, the $34 fares have been on sale from the 1st of July from the day they stopped flying in March.

AirNZ tried to do what AirNZ does and tries to terminate the competition through any means necessary, if you can’t win on price or service or OTP, time to try other methods.

[Chris2303]

Jetstar use the Air New Zealand sim centre in Auckland for training their pilots when they aren’t required to be sent to Melbourne. A very reputable source has said that shortly after that article was published, the remaining sims planned by Jetstar were cancelled by Air New Zealand. After a discussion was had between CEO’s and NZALPA, the sims were reinstated but the anticompetitive behaviour leaves a sour taste.

What would one expect with Walmart running the show?

[Ollie Onion]

I have heard that this action was taken by someone much further down the chain than the CEO but when the CEO was advised of this by NZALPA it was quickly reversed. It was a strange move considering Jetstar only use the slots that Air NZ pilots can't contractually use i.e midnight - 4 am.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

So, anyway, flying or not flying from July 1st? :)

All signs point to yes.

Interesting that JQ are looking to bring back aircraft and stand up pilots and cabin crew, at the same time air NZ are looking at another round of redundancies, yet it’s JQ who are being vilified on this thread.

[Slezy9]

All signs point to yes.

Interesting that JQ are looking to bring back aircraft and stand up pilots and cabin crew, at the same time air NZ are looking at another round of redundancies, yet it’s JQ who are being vilified on this thread.

Seeing as Jetstar NZ have 0 pilots who are receiving a pay check as of today it’s not really surprising that they are bringing pilots etc. back. Air NZ don’t have the luxury of picking and choosing IR laws, they really had no choice but to make people redundant.

[Ollie Onion]

Two totally different scenarios, Jetstar will be in a much stronger position going forward due to it’s lack of long haul international exposure. Air NZ like Qantas Mainline have a massive exposure to long haul groundings for a significant period, the luxury that Qantas has is that they are able to stand people down of their choosing on no pay, Air NZ can not. So Air NZ is possibly facing paying someone $300,000 per year when there is no useful work for them, their only choice barring that pilot volunteering to go on LWOP, is to make people redundant. This will mean the most junior people which still doesn’t solve the $300,000 guy sitting at home, to make use of him/her requires a massive down training programme, Air NZ are screwed by their contract. It will be up to the pilots now to vote on a solution, would the A320 pilots and Longhaul SO’s have the numbers to vote through a variation allowing the company to assign LWOP? If not good luck getting the $300,000 guy to volunteer to do so.

[wheels_down]

9 News just now had a story on a infected passenger that flew Melbourne to Bundaberg via Brisbane. They are in the process of contacting all passengers.

These are the sort of stories that won’t put any confidence in the travelling public to return. There is such a small network now, but any increase of 5-10% will see more of these stories appear. The whole family in my house echoed the same sentiment, we won’t be flying anytime soon. Probably early next year.

I know the economy needs to get moving but the airlines really have their hands tied.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

9 News just now had a story on a infected passenger that flew Melbourne to Bundaberg via Brisbane. They are in the process of contacting all passengers.

These are the sort of stories that won’t put any confidence in the travelling public to return. There is such a small network now, but any increase of 5-10% will see more of these stories appear. The whole family in my house echoed the same sentiment, we won’t be flying anytime soon. Probably early next year.

I know the economy needs to get moving but the airlines really have their hands tied.

If someone contracts the virus on the flight, absolutely.

However, I think you’ll find the majority of the public see COVID19 as yesterday’s problem as the news cycle as now moved onto the Black Lives Matters protests

[Ragnor]

So QLD borders are closed- Person travel to Bundaberg via Brisbane from Melbourne in Victoria. I don’t get it are they closed or are they open

[Alice Kiwican]

So QLD borders are closed- Person travel to Bundaberg via Brisbane from Melbourne in Victoria. I don’t get it are they closed or are they open

Pretty sure if you are a Queensland resident you can still travel in from interstate. Also if it is essential work related travel and you have documentation to verify it.

[Ragnor]

And she is worried about ppl from NSW. She is a knuckle head.

[ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE]

https://newsroom.jetstar.com/jetstar-resumes-domestic-flights-in-new-zealand-as-restrictions-ease/

confirmed, flights to return on July 1, straight to 60% of pre COVID schedule.

Fares from $21, Elzilcho won’t be happy!

[wheels_down]

How many aircraft do they have on Kiwi Domestic? Half dozen?

[Ollie Onion]

5 aircraft would be a full domestic schedule. So this will be more like 3 airframes.

[Ragnor]

Still all positive 3 out of 5. Quick look at staff travel there looks to be demand AKL-CHC all over 100 seats sold.