CAE Skype Interview this week. Help [Archive]

giggitygiggity

1st Jun 2020, 20:52

Are you both doing the interview? :confused:
Haven't you ever heard of the teleprompter?

In all seriousness, makes sense to get as much help as possible, though one of the key skills a pilot should posess is the ability to go and find stuff out for themselves. I mean this in the kindest possible way and not looking to precipitate a slanging match on here but perhaps some good advice would be to tell your son to sign up for this site and ask those questions himself. That's the kind of attribute CAE will want to see. Whilst being a pilot is a lot about team-work, becoming a pilot will require a massive amount of personal effort.

Another piece of advice, whilst I won't get into a modular vs intergrated debate here, if and when he does get in, delay the training as much as you possibly can to allow time to re-evaluate the state of aviation and the world economy at large. I got offered a place on an intergrated course in summer 2010 and delayed starting till April 2011 to let us get over the recession a little more. This was definately a good move as I waited only 3 weeks for a job afterwards. The longer you leave it, the more time you have to re-assess if it's a good idea right now. Note that I started 3 years after the recession, this one is looking a lot deeper with specific existential threats and barriers to aviation (as opposed to 2008). As much as your son might like the idea, training at the bottom of the market (economy wise) is probably a little too soon. Don't forget there are hundreds of pilots already in the training system that the airlines will have given conditional offers of employment to already, if the airlines start recruiting any time soon, your son will enter the job market behind every single one of these guys. A white tail cadet that graduated in March, just before this all kicked off, wouldn't be going anywhere near an airliner for 2 years I imagine, that's a hell of a backlog of pilots ahead of your son to get through before he starts getting any promising emails.

A final caution, CAEs business will have all but dried up so they'll be offering courses to anyone that waves the money at them. I trained in a recession and am sure that's probably the only reason they took me. Please think critically about any offer made. Assume you will never repay or get the training expenses back, if you can afford that with no real hardship then maybe, otherwise be prepared for the worst.

Lammy_pie

1st Jun 2020, 21:03

Thank you so much for the insight, and perspective. We will take all of those points on board. Some very valid points to consider indeed.
I didn't want to give the impression my son hasn't been researching any, he really has. I just guess I'm being an overhelpful dad perhaps...
All the very best for the future!
Chris.

Fostex

2nd Jun 2020, 08:29

Don't forget there are hundreds of pilots already in the training system that the airlines will have given conditional offers of employment to already, if the airlines start recruiting any time soon, your son will enter the job market behind every single one of these guys.

Not to mention the thousands of pilots that are currently facing redundancy. As a graduate with 150hrs you are going to be up against type rated guys and gals with thousands of hours, who would you pick if you were recruiting.

Sorry to sound so pessimistic but anything other than modular training would be madness at the moment in my opinion, there is just too much uncertainty in the sector.

Lammy_pie

2nd Jun 2020, 09:05

Thank you both for your input. This is obviously a massive investment for the family. All of your help and advice in hugely appreciated in these uncertain times. We do need to look more at the modular options also. Integrated seemed like the best option before Covid19, but clearly we're in a different world now...
If successful with the interview stage, we'll look to push back as far as possible with the start date, whilst considering all other options.
I'm so sorry for all of the qualified guys that have worked so hard to get where they are, only to be faced with such unprecedented uncertainty. I can only hope the rebound is quick, and significant.
Thanks again. Any more thoughts very welcome.

parkfell

2nd Jun 2020, 10:59

kpd is providing sound advice for your research.

The other ppruners are telling you, in a transparent unambiguous style, as is their want, what the prospects are just now. Ask CAE what the prospects are. Get them to put it in writing. At least MOL does.

Caveat emptor & due diligence is my advice.

In common with all transactions you clearly want to avoid being sold
“a pig in a poke” or even “sold a pup”

A320LGW

2nd Jun 2020, 11:10

During the height of the boom I would have advised against going to OAA.

Doing it right now is pure insanity. Save yourself and your son a ton of grief (and money). Put the plans on ice for the time being. If he has ants in his pants and wishes to start doing something, then get cracking with the ground school at a modular school. There are very good schools dotted across Europe where you can get your training done for a fraction of the price and be just as airline ready (if not more) than going to one of these major schools.

I speak from personal experience, good luck

Future Rodney King

2nd Jun 2020, 11:32

Hi, my son and I are revising for a CAE Skype Interview this week, and have, we feel, most of the subjects covered that we have been told about by CAE, however wondered if there were any other pointers anyone could suggest?
Many thanks in advance.

My first post on this fascinating site!

Fools and their money are easily parted. I am assuming that you are looking to commit 100 grand plus on flight training? If you have money to burn then that’s fine, otherwise get wise and listen to the advice of people in the know before CAE fills yours and your sons brains with BS. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people on here who do zero due diligence.

Knock knock, nearly every UK Pilot is grounded at the moment, factor that in to your calculations before setting fire to a huge pile of money.

Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP

2nd Jun 2020, 14:07

Echo all the above. It would make more sense to wire out £100K to Nigeria as an advance on the £50 million you are about to inherit from a previously unknown relative.

rudestuff

2nd Jun 2020, 19:40

planesandthings

2nd Jun 2020, 19:45

A number of my friends are out of jobs, and those that are finishing training at CAE and L3 no job to go into, those with conditional offers have been terminated or on the odd occasion furloughed indefinitely (but may still lose their job). At least one of my friends is concerned about going bankrupt due to the cost of training and possibly no job for a few years. I seriously hope you wouldn't want a high risk of ending up in their boat, it is not good for your health...

This isn't exaggeration and is the real deal. Push past the Marketing and ask CAE what is really going on. It must be realised that pilot training is just an investment and has fairly high variability in risk levels. Wait it out, aviation is at a make or break point, It isn't a race to the flight deck, without a job to go to an ATPL is literally only a 100k fancy piece of paper issued by the regulator.

For now, Go do a PPL, Go Gliding, Do anything but sink large amounts of money to a crumbling airline industry...

Lammy_pie

3rd Jun 2020, 12:19

parkfell

3rd Jun 2020, 13:39

just tried again now. As a new subscriber you have exceeded your quoter it is saying. Go to private messages. Inbox. Then EMPTY FOLDER/ delete function.
Alternatively send a PM to me with an email address to circumnavigate pprune.

kpd

3rd Jun 2020, 13:53

Getting Pprune notifications saying my inbox is full but there's nothing in there? Am I missing something? Sorry to sound dim, but very new to the site.
Thanks so much for all of the responses guys, the replies will literally be life and finance changing! The whole family is very very grateful!

Lammy keep posting and as you post they will then enable your PM function- not sure what the minimum posts are but perhaps someone can advise?

Lammy_pie

3rd Jun 2020, 14:03

Thanks guys. I can see the responses on the thread, but Inbox and Sent Items definitely empty.
We have focussed our attentions so much on Integrated ATPL, but not so much on Modular.
Other than Pprune, could you recommend anywhere that could offer a neutral opinion on this. We're in the Midlands (Tamworth area) so not too far from Coventry who I understand do this. However want where possible to avoid a biased opinion...
Thanks again.

PilotLZ

3rd Jun 2020, 19:24

There is no jobs available right now. Don't give the big Integrated the schools the satisfaction of your £100k.

Just get him to do a PPL at a local flight club somewhere and see how the job market is in one year.
There are no airline jobs whatsoever now, regardless your experience, except for the odd cargo or corporate gig that gets instantly snapped up by someone with relevant experience. Hopefully, if we assume that the acute phase of the medical crisis is getting behind us, in 6 to 12 months there will be limited openings for experienced crew. After that, give it another year or two for the market to soak up everyone who dropped out in the past 3 months. So, for the next 2 or 3 years, opportunities for new joiners with no experience will be pretty much non-existent since there will be more than enough experienced pilots to fill the vacancies.

You can choose to start your full-time course now and then spend one or two years struggling to stay current and lamenting your choice - or you can approach it rationally and end up far better off in the long-term run. If you are finishing your A-levels now, apply for university in the autumn and spend the gap year getting experience. Even the proverbial job stacking shelves or one as a barista, cashier or delivery man will introduce you to the world of work and give you a thing or two to talk about in an airline interview at a later stage. You can also do volunteering if you are inclined towards such a thing, it's also a valuable experience. In the meantime, do your PPL. Maybe start some small weekend job with the flying club. Something as simple as manning a reception desk will give you valuable exposure and contacts. Work hard and play hard at university and keep a watchful eye on the industry. If it's picking up nicely, there might be cadetships out there towards your final year. If there aren't or you decide that that's not your thing - fair enough, keep studying and flying by the modular route in your downtime. By graduation time you can be either done with it or within a couple of months from the finish line - and you will have spent your time and money far more wisely than if you jump into it right now. Your expected working life is long enough to fit an awful lot of flying, especially with flying close to the 900-hour annual limit becoming the norm at more and more airlines. So, delaying flight training a bit and ramping up on your other skills and qualifications won't do you any long-term harm. Quite the opposite, you will end up in a far better position in terms of employability, transferable skills and life experience in the end of it.

Booglebox

3rd Jun 2020, 19:55

PilotLZ makes good, logical points.
Ignore him! Follow your dreams!

Alex Whittingham

4th Jun 2020, 20:04

Other than PPRuNe, could you recommend anywhere that could offer a neutral opinion on this.

BALPA have a leaflet and some advice here (https://www.balpa.org/Becoming-a-pilot)

Banana Joe

4th Jun 2020, 22:37

My suggestion is to start your PPL now possibly at a flying club where you can remain a member and study for your ATPL right after that, but take it easy and join flying tours across Europe.
I am not familiar with the requirements to obtain the CB-IR, but if you can do it, get it done as soon as possible and continue flying across Europe with an IR for your hour building with friends. Once the ATPL exams are sorted out you could get your FI rating and finish off with CPL and MEP and ME-IR when things start picking up.

There is no rush and there is all the time to make this enjoyable.

TryingToAvoidCBs

5th Jun 2020, 14:48

We do need to look more at the modular options also. Integrated seemed like the best option before Covid19, but clearly we're in a different world now...

You only have to read the threads on here about CAE and L3 to see that it's fair to say integrated hasn't been the best option for many years, but people like hearing what they want to hear and ignore the cold hard facts. As you've only looked at integrated schools that means you will have been fed the usual marketing BS of "integrated training is the only guarenteed way into a flight deck". That was the opinion perhaps 10-15 years ago, but modular training has been fighting back very strongly over the last decade and I would argue is easily on par if not slightly more popular now with trainees.

If you're in Coventry, (apart from Aeros at coverntry obviously) take a trip to Tatenhill in Burton-upton-Trent if it's not too far. Great school, aircraft, facilities and instructors. I know a number of people who trained with them (myself included for hours building and night rating) for a fraction of the cost CAE will charge, all now sit the RHS of a shiny jet.

As others have said, be patient, take your time. I can't see any airlines seriously looking at hiring new low hours cadets any time in the next 2-3 years, theres not rush. Go modular, save yourself a fortune and have a nice holiday at the end to treat yourself.

skyblue12

7th Jun 2020, 08:14

Maybe go and do a PPL if you’re really keen, but I wouldn’t pursue professional flight training of any sorts for at least a year until you can get a better idea of this crazy situation we’re all in. Tbh I wouldn’t even do a PPL now, because you won’t be starting flight training any time soon so wouldn’t want your skills to fade or having to spend money just to keep current for a while.

Chris the Robot

7th Jun 2020, 17:48

Looking into what is going on at BA and other major airlines in Britain regarding T&Cs, I certainly wouldn't be paying £100k for training. There's likely (in Europe at least) going to be a decline in T&Cs for the foreseeable future as airlines take advantage of a pilot employment market that is in their favour. If the OP's son has an EU passport/European language skills, I'd be tempted to get a backup career outside of aviation and keep an eye out for any sponsored programmes (though it's likely these will be years away). As things stand, I'd only consider a move into flying if an airline paid for my training, there's too much risk of unemployment/dire T&Cs at the moment.

I wouldn't go further than a PPL at the moment, it's fairly flexible in that it'll provide an idea of aptitude and give the OPs son an idea of whether or not he enjoys flying.

In the meantime, take a look at getting involved in various aviation organisations such as HCAP and the Air League, networking is important in the industry.

Lastly, don't pay large sums of money up front for flight training.

Flying Clog

7th Jun 2020, 18:25

Absolutely, what Chris the Robot said. You'd be absolutely mad to start airline career track program right now. In fact, as a recruiter with a major airline, I would probably ask for you to have your head examined for defects. You would be absolutely mad.

Indeed, go and have some fun in a GA with a PPL for the next few years.

It'll be at least 5 years before the industry gets through the backlog of highly experience pilots and takes on 250 hour guys again. It'll happen, but it's years away. I would guesstimate five years.

Contact Approach

7th Jun 2020, 22:28

Some good advice on here. Pay close attention, it will serve you well.

Future Rodney King

8th Jun 2020, 09:32

There is no telling the wannabee zombie army. Forward they march into financial oblivion and unemployment.

MaximumPete

8th Jun 2020, 11:16

I would suggest you contact the Young Pilots group at the Honourable Company of Air Pilots who will offer advice and support. Not sure if your son has undergone any aptitude testing and would strongly recommend the Hon Company's aptitude testing scheme at RAF Cranwell. All the information is available on their website.

MCDU2

8th Jun 2020, 14:09

My airline has for the past number of years had 1-2 classes of cadets undertaking integrated training in Jerez. Thousands applied for the 20 or so places that were up for grabs each year and applicants were from across the EU. We also recruit direct entry pilots and a very small number of "frozen atpl" zero experience pilots. Since March all cadets that were in Jerez have had their training contracts terminated. We have stopped recruiting along with just about every airline across the globe. The small number of contract copilots (employed by a 3rd party) had their contracts terminated. We are currently on 50% of pay and many are out of currency due to the limited flying available. Many are under extreme financial hardship. We have been flying 5% of our planned schedule for the past few months although this is now slowly increasing towards 30%. On the next roster we are hoping to see the schedule improve further to approximately 50% but this is still unclear. It should be evident that we are significantly over crewed and will be for the forecast 2-3 years. At this stage our union is in negotiations with our employer and it is unclear if a "BA esq land grab" will take place but time will tell. As we are a unionised airline there are agreements and precedents in place for the rehire of those pilots that have had contracts terminated when and if the market improves. Many of the larger unionised airlines have these and so there will be a long queue.

It would be pure madness to be even entertaining the idea of entering this industry at this time.

I would strongly suggest you undertake some detailed research into the industry as a whole. Start with reading through the various threads in the T&E section of this forum. The largest employer of cadets from the likes of CAE is most likely a certain low cost carrier. There is much detailed information on their current contracts and work practices. I will leave it to yourself to form your own opinion as to whether embarking on a career with these types of bottom feeder employers is something that you would wish on your child.

Advise your son to undertake a PPL if he really wishes to and then find a suitable career/trade so that if he wishes to undertake flying training if and when the market improves that he has a contingency plan to fall back on.

Pirrex

8th Jun 2020, 23:27

Please for the love of God don't be stupid to start training now, especially with an expensive integrated course, unless you have enough money and simply don't care about flushing 100k down the toilet. The 2008 crisis was nothing compared to this and while i started my training in 2010 and finishing in 2012, I was the first one from our group to be employed in 2016. Sorry about the many whom never made it.
The airline recruiters are not stupid, please tell me in 6 years time if you get super lucky to get an interview, how you will explain your total lack of judgement for starting now?

Chris the Robot

15th Jun 2020, 16:37

One thing that will be interesting to see is how much the big integrated training schools cut their course fees to try and get people in the door. A lot of the money they were bringing in was pure profit, even after the amount they spend on marketing/advertising/open days.

I still wouldn't touch any self-funded training beyond PPL with a bargepole and to be honest, I'd be very cautious around any fully airline funded programme in the extremely unlikely event that such a programme were to appear in the near future.

Chris the Robot

15th Jun 2020, 20:48

It sounds like quite a few variables going on, I'm a PPL student at the moment however from what I have gleaned over the years from various contacts I'd say that you'd want to ask the following questions:

Who has said you can begin training at the end of the year and under what conditions will that take place?
Has the airline announced/made any pilot redundancies/furloughs? If so, it's to be expected that these will get priority ahead of you when it comes to recruitment, especially if a union is involved.
Is the sponsorship still being offered as originally described, are there any changes?
What happens if the airline doesn't take the trainees on as first officers at the end of training? There could be several reasons for this so each one might have a different clause and/or contractual outcome.
I presume that it's an airline-specific MPL programme on a common aircraft type, if the airline doesn't take you on at the end of training, how transferable is the training? Bear in mind that it's much easier to transfer an fATPL than an MPL.
How financially viable is the airline, you've said it seems healthy but have you been through the financial results/public accounts at all?
Has the airline said what sort of contract you'd be on at the end of training? They could offer you a zero hours contract and give you little/no flying time.
How easy would it be to resume your current career if you weren't offered a place at the end of training? How much do you have to lose by giving up your current role?

I think it's impossible to predict how the pandemic will develop, whether there will be a second wave etc. so don't put base all of your future plans around this specific programme.

A couple of recent events to consider are:
An orange carrier who also operates the A320 didn't take on trainees at the end of their MPL training. Those trainees have over £100k of debt, it may be a lot more money than the amount listed above but regardless of whether it's €15k or £120k it still needs to be serviced somehow.
A large operator of the Dash-8 recently entered administration, their MPL cadets who were being/had been trained on the Dash-8 didn't have many options since there are not many other operators of the type.

There's probably various other things to consider but that's what I can think off of the top of my head.

boing797

15th Jun 2020, 21:27

Lots of important points to consider. I'll have to take a closer look at some of these. Thanks for the response!

parkfell

16th Jun 2020, 06:30

WIZZ are being the most optimistic when talking about recovery, probably with Ryanair next, then Easy. BA with 4 years+.
Keep the day job, or continue with Higher education.

Just now, be extremely cautious and consider the modular route, as the financial risk is less, with you in charge of the process. But before spending money on training, obtain your Class One Medical.

A clearer picture will emerge in 6 months. Wait until then, as both Oxford & Imperial (London) are optimistic about vaccine availability this year.

Avoid smooooth talking snake oil salesmen. They seem to be very successful at enticing junior birdmen into hasty courses of action.

African_TrouserSnake

17th Jun 2020, 13:30

Lammy_pie

The advice given here is maybe not the most 'neutral opinion' but it is the most realistic.
There other types of advice commonly found are frequently biased, due to interests (e.g. flightschool) or coping/confirmation bias, e.g. freshly graduated cadet congitively coping with the current situation (they'll start hiring soon!), or wannabe's posting stuff that supports their dream of becoming a pilot as being the right thing to do atm (it will be over once you're done!)

I invite you to take a look at the "European Airline Pilots" FB group to get a sobering view on the situation. created the 31st of may and 10k+ members already.
Fresh F/O's, SFO's, CPTs, ex-mil drivers, all in **** or about to be. Experienced captains now driving delivery trucks just to get by ---> Should be another red flag: get useful diploma and some work experience before going into pilot training.

You can try and ask your question there. Many first hand stories about the freshly finished cadets, searching for 3-4-5-6 years to find their first job after the 2008 crisis, which imo is rather bleak compared to how covid hit the aviation sector.

Blackbird0242

20th Aug 2020, 14:51

Hello all who need this thread for advice,

I have recently sat the stage 3 interview online via skype with cae oxford.
Please and i beg please do not stress. The interview felt as if it was 5 minutes long yet lasted 40 minutes, questions are as seen on latest pilot jobs and other prep websites. Sit down everyday and go over these questions making yourself comfortable with them. The people who carry out the interview are lovely and patient.
Go in with a free mind, answer questions to the point with some background context, smile be kind and hope for the best. Best of luck to anyone sitting the exams.

Future Rodney King

14th Sep 2020, 08:48

Lovely and patient. I’ll bet they are.

Am I living in a parallel dimension or something? You must need your head examining to even contemplate entering into an integrated flight training contract. There are no jobs and hundreds if not thousands of experienced type rated pilots are out of work in the UK. Add to that the army of CPL/IR holders and then do the maths. These outfits will fill your head full of BS. THEY ARE DESPERATE FOR YOUR CASH. Get a bloody PPL if you like flying so much and bide your time. Do not waste yours or your parents money.

parkfell

14th Sep 2020, 12:24

Apart from Interview practice, which is always valuable
( I hope it was free of charge?) FR KING advice to go down the PPL route, then modular is sound advice in the present circumstances.

Please let us know what the smooooth talking snake oil salesmen are saying to entice punters into Integrated Training. I am intrigued.

Ask them to put it in writing:

i) what safeguards exist to ensure you get “value for money” aka a job

ii) is there any compensation (binding arbitration) for any “porkies” told to make you sign on the dotted line

Then see if an abrupt ending to the conversation occurs........the acid test perhaps?

Blackbird0242

14th Sep 2020, 12:53

Listen, once again as I’ve stated on other pages, cae Oxford is not only integrated and I’m on a university route that requires you to complete your atpls in year 2.

Oxford was an option an hence an interview was necessary, it’s not very expensive at all in terms of atpls only and we are given the choice to use bgs groundschool and tutors on the side at uni.

This forum is for helping and advice. Constantly bombarding the same terminology is quite annoying really. I’m sure everyone is aware by now of “snake oil salesman” and expensive integrated routes. Instead of constant bombardment on these programmes maybe give alternatives and directions, not just get ppl, or “go modular” because 90% of people do modular anyway. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

Pawly

15th Sep 2020, 10:45

Pprune is a toxic place.. and I feel like Covid has just made it worse.

There is some solid advice to be found in those bashings for sure, but if you want some true advice on certain topics (like interviews), I'd honestly just do a little bit of research on Google and see if I can find some people who went through it before. CAE is certainly not unknown in the flying industry and I'm sure there are people who are more than willing to tell you how their interview went.

Then again, any comment is useful, and if people start giving you advice and/or start bashing your ideas, it might hurt but it's always good to take a step back and listen what they have to say. You don't have to agree and you don't have to do what they tell you to do, but the more input you get from different people, the more information you have to make your own personal decisions. And if that means that you're signing up for an MPL at CAE, then that's on you.

I know, some comments are super annoying, just don't take them too personally. But keep them in mind. Some of them are good advice.

truckflyer

15th Sep 2020, 23:10

I think the issue here, and the best advice is the fact there are no jobs now, will not be for many years, don't waste money on training.

Don't listen to people with thousands of hours experience, jump of the cliff, and in 2 - 6 years people will still be hurting from this crisis.

Or believe some nonsense from some flight school, desperate to grab your money, despite them knowing there are NO JOBS out there.

Pawly

15th Sep 2020, 23:54

The problem with this is that essentially every single question about any ATO and/or training in general boils down to just that. Some people telling others not to start training right now. And yes, that's some good advice, and yes that might be true, but that wasn't the question. If the person wanted to get an opinion on what to do, he/she would've asked just that. But if you're asking a simple question and you want simple answers, getting opinions on your personal decisions that you might not even have made yet, is simply annoying and not the point of asking a very specific question.

That's why I said that yes, the advice might be correct and good but if the person wants an actual answer to that question, he/she should rather find some people, reviews or experiences from others on Google than bothering with asking on pprune. As it's a question about flight training, one can be 100% certain that people will start shoving their oh-so-smart advice into people's faces until they get so frustrated with the forum that they never return, simply because they couldn't get a simple answer.
Again, I'm not against giving people advice. But some people seem to think that every person who's interested in flight training right now, is the dumbest person on the planet who will believe everything an ATO has to say without ever questioning it, and that's simply not the case. People know the situation by now, you can read about this on essentially every single topic as I'm sure it'll be mentioned at some point anyway, no matter what the topic used to be before. I'm just against ruining every question and essentially ignoring it, just to say the same thing over and over again.

If you want people to believe you and listen to you, you gotta listen to them as well.

parkfell

16th Sep 2020, 06:41

.........some people seem to think that every person who's interested in flight training right now, is the dumbest person on the planet who will believe everything an ATO has to say without ever questioning it, and that's simply not the case.

Is this statement a generalisation based on your years in aviation training, or simply anecdotal evidence?

VariablePitchP

16th Sep 2020, 07:42

Blackbird0242

They made you interview for the privilege of giving them thousands of pounds for groundschool, not even the flying course? How arrogant are they!

Money = groundschool course surely.

Genuine question - what on earth could they ask you for 40 minutes when it is just a distance learning course you’ll do sitting at home on a sofa?

Blackbird0242

23rd Sep 2020, 11:11

Understood, but could you please offer an alternative with a cheaper price and close to uni, so that i can still complete my ppl without travelling for hours everyday. Sometimes its not just about Oxford being expensive and crap and the rest, the truth is with all the other bills and course prices, it is merely the same as the rest when factoring in travel and other costs.

Too, you may be right, why an interview if we will only learn online, well one because were not and were attending classes. Anyway, if you can find a better and cheaper alternative that makes my life easier I'm all ears as for now student loans and my father and helping me through this.