View Full Version : US military test concept of launching cruise missiles out of the back of C130's
NutLoose
29th May 2020, 23:11
More or less dropping palatised sets of weapons off the ramp and launching them,
https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/us-air-force-tests-dropping-cruise-missiles-from-ramp-of-cargo-aircraft/138598.article
unmanned_droid
30th May 2020, 00:01
Similar to the idea of dropping ICBMs out the back of C5s for an air launch!
I suspect this will become a capability. The C130 is a good base for this kind of thing - Harvest Hawk seemed to be a success? It'd be like a tactical arsenal airplane.
tartare
30th May 2020, 00:33
Interesting.
Didn't they try pushing ICBMs out the back of an aircraft at some point in the past?
EDIT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b8LLcdBaQc
...nuffing new under the sun.
Compass Call
30th May 2020, 21:17
Wasn't the MOAB dropped from a C-130?
MPN11
31st May 2020, 09:49
A former OC No. 5 Stn had a similar concept [albeit in the AD role) with a supported 'FC-130' over the North Sea launching numerous AAMs at the advancing hordes. Undoubtedly his view was coloured by his 2 x Mx, no guns, experience on the F.6 :cool:
Lyneham Lad
31st May 2020, 10:29
Shades of Dr Strangelove and the Texan Major waving his stetson.
BEagle
31st May 2020, 13:17
Hmmm - UK did a 'Long Range Non Penetrator' cargo aircraft 'bomb truck' feasibility study some 17 years ago......
Wasn't the MOAB dropped from a C-130? Yes they were. So too their ancestor, the BLU-82.
Trumpet trousers
31st May 2020, 16:08
A former OC No. 5 Stn had a similar concept [albeit in the AD role) with a supported 'FC-130' over the North Sea launching numerous AAMs at the advancing hordes. Undoubtedly his view was coloured by his 2 x Mx, no guns, experience on the F.6 https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/cool.gif
Before the WIWOL Mafia nail your boots to the mess bar, with you still in them, I think you'll find that the F6 did indeed have guns!
Salute!
With the new nav stuff for the missiles and the possibility of active and useful GPS at launch, I like the idea. Hell! Get those 747's outta storage and have them fly about during times of international tension.
I have always dreamed of a buff using a missile to take care of a pesky interceptor. Sucker would be HOJ or a HARM variant with terminal IR guidance. Pop outta the launch tube, slow enuf using the drogue chute, fire the motor and go for it! Unlike old days, no need to lock on before lurch, but that might could work with a good carraige system and missile control scheme.
Problem back in the early 70's for the big missiles was loading a decent launch position in their nav system for the INS to work with, and then having a good mid-course correction to get to the tgt. I had access to the USN Trident missile tech data from the early 80's after the stuff was declassified for "others" to see how good the damned thing was. Imagine hitting a football stadium ( American or the world's type) from a few thousand miles away!?
Having a transport drop a cruise missile on a drougue chute is no big technical challenge.
Gums sends...
bobward
31st May 2020, 20:12
Gums
I think Dale Brown beat you to the punch with A2A missiles on a Buff, in Flight of the Old Dog back in the 1980's
Just This Once...
31st May 2020, 21:01
Hmmm - UK did a 'Long Range Non Penetrator' cargo aircraft 'bomb truck' feasibility study some 17 years ago......
Project LONG ARCHER in 2002. It included penetrating and non-penetrating missions with munitions ranging from pretty small all the way up to small cruise missiles. The bulk of the work was at the smaller end though (Brimstone from launcher rails and BAE Hydra through the ramp beer cooler etc). It eventually morphed, under US hands, to HARVEST HAWK. Elements of the design did make it into the UK C-130K Mk3A programme and built upon the stuttering EVS work on the ever-depleting fleet of C-130K Mk1s.
I'm glad the US have made extensive use of the project, as they provided unwavering informal support in the early days of the UK design - even when a few UK VSOs just wanted to kill the programme from the outset to avoid 'challenging other air platforms'.
Salute!
Sorry, Bob, I should have given credit to Dale. I actually thot of it before he published "Flight of the Old Dog" and many following techno-thrillers. And I bought the book just after it came out when a fellow pilot/engineer had a son flying Buffs and recommended it.
The technical problems of launching missiles from the big boys are not as challenging today as they were when Dale wrote his first book. The aero stuff is still challenging, but the nav/guidance/sensor technology is way beyond what many of us envisioned.
In the late 70's we all laughed when the troop from DARPA or Systems Command advertised a 15 meter sphere for position accuracy using the "secret" P-code we military folks had, and then Selective Availability. So 25 years later, and having worked on the original JDAM ops demo in early 90's, I sat on my deck and waited for the clock to reach 1200 when the SA went away. My Magellan handheld unit's position settled down and I had at least the 15 meter position accuracy we were told about using just the coarse acquisition sfwe we civilians had
Gums sends...
ancientaviator62
1st Jun 2020, 07:47
Ah the C130 is the ultimate MRCA !
Before the WIWOL Mafia nail your boots to the mess bar, with you still in them, I think you'll find that the F6 did indeed have guns!
Depends on the timeline ... see image here from 74/Tengah in 1970. https://www.fotolibra.com/gallery/117543/lightning-f6-xr725a-74-sqn/
Lightning F.6Single-seat fighter (an improved longer-range variant of the F.3). It featured new wings with better efficiency and subsonic performance, overwing fuel tanks and a larger ventral fuel tank, reintroduction of 30 mm cannon (initially no cannon but later in the forward part of the ventral pack rather than in the nose), use of Red Top (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Siddeley_Red_Top) missiles. A total of 39 built (also nine converted from F.3 and 15 from F.3A).
i recall a conversation in the Bar where "Muldoon" claimed 3 'kills'. Two with missiles "... and if I had had guns I would have got the third one." Cue much ribald laughter!
I rest my case, M'Lud. ;)
tdracer
1st Jun 2020, 20:28
Salute!
With the new nav stuff for the missiles and the possibility of active and useful GPS at launch, I like the idea. Hell! Get those 747's outta storage and have them fly about during times of international tension.
Having a transport drop a cruise missile on a drougue chute is no big technical challenge.
Gums sends...
Back in the 1980's, there was a serious study of using the 747F as a bomb truck (or more accurately a cruise missile truck). The basic concept was to take a 747F and give it the ability to open the side cargo door in-flight. Then the cruise missile rotary launchers would spit their cruise missiles out the cargo door, then rotate next launcher to position and launch it's missiles. IIRC it would have been able to launch ~100 cruise missiles in about 10 minutes. The idea was to have a fleet of these 747s, during times of crisis they would orbit a couple hundred miles off the USSR - if push came to shove they would simply overwhelm the Soviet air defenses with numbers.
The beauty was it wouldn't take much development on the aircraft side - the only real technical challenge would be a side cargo door that could open in flight - the existing cargo handling system could handle moving the rotary launchers around (I don't recall what the plan was for the crew when they depressurized - to keep the flight deck pressurized or simply have the crew on O2). Plus, if tensions were low, the aircraft could still be used as a conventional freighter.
Salute!
Never thot of the 747 release configuration too much. I was just thinking about total payload by the beast. So maybe another big platform... hmmmmm. C-5? Maybe DC-10 or L-1011. Internal carraige, then push the suckers out the ramp.
Our new 130's here at Hurlburt can easily load a handful of SDB's and/or Hellfire missiles. And they are now configuring to do so. They just have to have a reasonable threat environment. Plus, they have practiced pushing the MOAB and others of it ilk out the ramp ( saw the second test from about 5 miles to the nortrh)
Gums sends...
ancientaviator62
2nd Jun 2020, 07:05
Gums,
during the Falklands War we had a set up to drop sea mines from our C130K so another one of the many roles for the a/c. Earlier we had an RAF C130K 'gunship' fit but that's another story.
Salute!
Good reminder, T28
My neighborhood rife with USAF and other spec ops folks.
So guy across street dropped two of the big boys outta his Talon herc during Desert Storm. One night they even had poor radio traffic and had scheduled two of them and folks were talking about the "Blu's Brothers", yep one called Jake other Elwood.
Gums sends....
uffington sb
2nd Jun 2020, 16:46
You want a proper missile, not a cruise missile!
https://youtu.be/8b8LLcdBaQc
tartare
3rd Jun 2020, 01:43
Salute!
Good reminder, T28
My neighborhood rife with USAF and other spec ops folks.
So guy across street dropped two of the big boys outta his Talon herc during Desert Storm. One night they even had poor radio traffic and had scheduled two of them and folks were talking about the "Blu's Brothers", yep one called Jake other Elwood.
Gums sends....
Crikey! So do they just pull `em out the back of the Herc with a parachute?
Do you know what the BLUs were headed for, or is that still a secret?
Salute!
The bombs are pulled out the ramp, and then go thru a release sequence from the parachute. The MOAB test I watched kept the chute on for a good while. Dunno about the original LZ prep version or the BLU-82
The ICBM test a long time ago shows the missile launch, but the big bombs just go down and boom. The MOAB has some guidance, but will have to check the details. My Talon herc driver has moved, but a newbie down the street might tell me.
The Storm targets were Republican Guard along the front line when the Allies made the left around attack. He told me that they had dropped leaflets promising a big boom unless they moved. Our Spec Ops folks here have and use all kindsa planes and such. Hell, the guy two doors down jumped into 'stan after 9/11 and rode around on horseback working with the Northern Alliance. He was a "combat control" type, not a SEAL or Delta.
Gums sends....