Easy Jet job cuts

[scr1]

As the other thread has been closed due to a problem with cookies. here is a link to the same news on the BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52830665

30% of their workforce

[krismiler]

Hopefully not 30% of their pilots though. Those first in the firing line are likely to be lower skilled employees who the company haven't already made a big investment in and can be replaced easily and trained up quickly once things pick up. Higher skilled workers whose performance is more critical and require a greater training investment in time and money are more likely to be kept on, though possibly on reduced conditions. Where a reduction is unavoidable, it might be mitigated by offering early retirement, job sharing, part time or casual with a place at the front of the queue when hiring restarts.

Sympathy to all affected though, not just aircrew.

[Captain Numpty]

Yes, the whole things is very very sad.

Customer Service roles and their associated skill sets are invariably transferable. Sadly however, the same cannot be said for Pilots & Engineers.

I guess that given the potential lack of a decent job market that people will be facing in the coming months, everyone, no matter what their skill-set is, will be hugely affected.

Best wishes to all those affected at EJ, and indeed across the entire industry.

[PilotLZ]

My sympathy for everyone affected, but I think that this is another wake-up call for the policy makers - although, again, at a tremendous human cost.

The UK has no plan for going out of lockdown - even worse than that, whatever was left of air transport will now be smashed up by the newly-introduced quarantine rules. With no end in sight, companies are left with no choice but try to ensure their long-term survival by slashing costs and jobs. All these restrictions and the uncertainty surrounding them, combined with the ensuing political and economic uncertainty of the present financial crisis and Brexit, have a deadly impact on airlines. With limited to no support and almost non-existent negotiation between the government and the industry leaders, sad news is yet to come. If there's no working strategy within the next month or two, the second round of retrenchment towards the late summer or the autumn is going to be much worse than this one.

[rotorwills]

Considering the statement that they are reducing the size of the fleet, it's pretty much on the cards for aircrew to be affected. Costs need to be trimmed to stay competitive in a very poor market for flight loads.

[krismiler]

Winter could be even worse, airlines in Europe rely on filling up the coffers during the summer season to tide them over the cold months. Even if normality returns soon, this years holiday season is already a washout, the best that can be hoped for is some last minute bookings for a few days in Spain from those who can still afford to travel and are determined to get away for a break.

With reduced incomes and uncertainty over jobs, many people will simply write this year off and defer travel plans until next year when their situation is clearer and virus fears have receded.

[FlipFlapFlop]

The key to pilot reduction is likely to be the reduced number of hulls on fleet. If none, then the simplest, fairest and, in the longer term, most effective solution would be that gaining significant support in IAG. Part time contracts for the duration.

[hunterboy]

Kinda depends on whether EJ management regard the Covid crisis as a smash and grab, or perhaps they have a modicum of humanity and decide to take a long term view.

[PilotLZ]

Part-time with seniority-based bids to return to full-time as demand recovers would be a good solution. Even if it means working half of the time and hence getting 50% salary, it's still better than redundancy and living off unemployment benefits or stacking shelves. The individual is still working, earning some money and contributing to the state budget rather than relying on it for benefits. And they are still current as a pilot. For the company that's good news as well since personnel will be current and good to go full-time as soon as demand picks up. So, that would be the closest semblance of a win-win solution under these circumstances.

[Busdriver01]

hunterboy

Have you seen the corona virus agreement? PB has literally taken the Ryanair plan and printed it on an orange page. They most certainly see this as an opportunity for smash and grab.

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

PilotLZ

Does seniority exist in EJ? I'm sure it didn't in the past. I'm intrigued how people will be selected for redundancy if it comes to that. Let's hope a lot of this is management bluster to strong arm the government into action.

The trouble is, the government couldn't give a sh!t about aviation. It never has and it never will.

[GetTheQRH]

Seniority doesn’t exist per se - there isn’t “a big list” and there is no way of finding specifically where you sit within a base or company.

There is obviously however ‘Date Of Joining’, which is used for certain admin purposes. I’m certain that the company wouldn’t order all crew into one list sorted by DOJ, but instead it would be each base sorted by DOJ, and then cuts made roughly from the bottom of each base list where crew numbers need adjusting in each location for the future.

[neilki]

so different to the US where there is literally ‘a
big list’ that everyone can see. Any reductions start at the bottom and work up. For better of worse; you always know exactly where you stand...
best of kick to everyone. We’re tested all the time. This is just a Another test...

[Douglas Bahada]

Seniority doesn’t exist per se - there isn’t “a big list” and there is no way of finding specifically where you sit within a base or company.

There is obviously however ‘Date Of Joining’, which is used for certain admin purposes. I’m certain that the company wouldn’t order all crew into one list sorted by DOJ, but instead it would be each base sorted by DOJ, and then cuts made roughly from the bottom of each base list where crew numbers need adjusting in each location for the future.

Problem with this is that movement in the past has been at easyjet behest. Be it for downsizing or command oportunities. Coupled with the threat on bases dare l say it time flying easyjet aircraft will be the biggest and fairest method. Not across easyjet as a company but across each AOC.

UK AOC. I can see bases like Newcastle and Glasgow definitely going. The market in the NE serviced by W rotations from other bases and Edinburgh being a mega base in Scotland.

I then foresee a cost neutral relocation of crew based on EasyLIFO if you are prepared to commute. Problematic for cabin crew who are second earners in families or pilots who cannot relocate.

[Denti]

neilki

This is not specific for easyjet, but as it is one of many transnational airlines in europe, something that the US doesn't have, any comparison is somewhat moot. Working laws differ all over europe and in many of those a simple seniority based order of dismissals is not legal as other factors have to be taken into account, like social situation for example.

I was in the unfortunate situation to have to get to know the german system quite intimately in the past, and there we have very strict rules. For example jobs have to be directly comparable, and that means that one employee has to be able to do the job of another employee without any training, which means first officers and captains are different jobs according to the law and each has to have its own order of dismissal. For each group of employees there are four criteria that have to be taken into account, length of service, age, support obligations and handicapped status (yes, that affects pilots as well, being a diabetic is enough to be officially handicapped and therefore specially protected). Those criteria have to be weighted and a compensation plan has to be negotiated, which can take up to a few months if done right.And even then every employee can sue the company for unlawful dismissal which can take another few years, and has a quite high chance of being won by the employee. So any dismissal has to be done very carefully by the company or they have a huge legal risk.

That said, i wonder how much salary easyjet actually pays currently to their german employees, under short work rules the government pays 60% (67% with kids) of the employees salary, which goes up to 70% (77%) after three months and after another three months up to 80% (87), based on maximum €6.900. That is limited currently until the end of this year, but it is extremely likely that that will be extended until the end of 2021. If easyjet doesn't pay them anyway because the government does, why not just keep them officially employed and have qualified personnel once demand picks up?

[GKOC41]

Captain

That was an assumption when an Airline went bust, not a whole Industry. Customer Service roles are indeed transferable but probably three of them equals one Pilot.
If Easyjet reduce their fleet the 'easy' option is to reduce the manpower per aircraft. Come 2023 or whenever the Industry recovers then their will be Pilots and Engineers still out there.
I sincerely hope I'm wrong and my thoughts are with all Airline Staff particularly those where the Mgmt are going after T+C also

[dirk85]

Douglas Bahada

it’s not going to be based on AOC but per country. Every country where easy has a base has very different legislation when it comes to redundancy. You cannot apply UK law to a crew based in Nice. And every country has different unions. And for the record, the crew contracts per country are all different in many aspects in every state.

[NorvernSuvna]

FWIW as a piece of SLF, who's flight to TFS has not been cancelled yet ( ex LTN 18th June ) but sure will be, I can only make the following observation. Apart from my brother, who is cabin crew with a UK airline, I know of nobody in my family circle, friends nor business contacts who is contemplating flying as a passenger anytime soon, and probably not before this time next year. Why ? many reasons, first and foremost people are sceptical about avoiding COVID-19 whilst being transported in a sealed tube full of other people. They also wonder what awaits them 'on the other side' - are all the facilities open, is everywhere they want to visit open ? What if they become ill with the virus whilst overseas ?

the other consideration is that, travelling by air in general, has become a heavily regimented and time consuming procedure prior to boarding, understandably post 9/11. However, you can now add to the list, distancing, wearing of masks, not being able to consume food or drink on board, and having to 'put yer hand up' to use the loo. So air travel will no longer be any pleasure, but a chore for those that do not need to travel.

So what I am trying to say is, if all the people that I know , who generally take at least 1 overseas holiday per year and at least one continental 'city' break per annum, are not intersested in flying any time soon, then aviation and travel are going to be really badly affected for the forseeable future. Obviously attitudes will soften over time with confidence, and hopefully a viable treatment or vaccine, but I anticipate such a time will be at least a year in the coming. So all airlines are going to have to reduce their outgoings as a matter of urgency to survive. BALPA and co can complain all they want, but the ultimate 'boss' on this issue is the virus and the lack of passenger confidence that accompanies it.

Of course, I hope I am wrong !

[LTNman]

PilotLZ

Much of EasyJet’s fleet isn’t even UK based so this is a worldwide issue and not a just a UK problem as you are hinting.

[judge11]

Norvernsuvna - I don't think you are wrong at all. The already unedifying process of 'flying' is going to get worse and I think that apart from those addicted to their week-in-the-sun come hell or high water, a very great many will be thinking the same as your friends and relations namely 'I simply cant' be bothered'.

[sonicbum]

Human beings get accustomed quickly to changes ; before low cost carriers kicked in, going on vacation by plane was a treat the majority of middle class workers could not afford, or could afford maybe once or twice in their life time. So alternative measures were in place, such as driving to the nearest seaside city, lakes, mountains or ferry boats. We could all easily see all of that coming back in the near future.

[krismiler]

A 25% pay cut to someone on £100 000 per year is much more manageable then it is to someone on £25 000 per year, as long as the higher earner hasn't committed himself right up to his income level. A temporary pay cut pay is preferable to a jobs cut so hopefully everyone can work together to minimise redundancies. Once normality returns, which may take a few years, then it's time for some serious bargaining over pay and conditions but at the moment it's belt tightening.

[BusterHot]

Once normality returns, which may take a few years, then it's time for some serious bargaining over pay and conditions but at the moment it's belt tightening.

Well good luck with that, the serious bargaining that is, not the belt tightening

In March, I lost my job and after 48 years in aviation, of which 31 was in Civil aviation I’m calling it a day. For personal reasons, I’d like to give something more back in a ground training role, but quite honestly I’ve had my time and there are going to be dozens of younger, equally qualified people available that need the job more than I do.

But not once, in those 31 years did ANY union bargain for ANY improvement in my Terms and Conditions and any increase was offset by increased productivity requirements. The only progression in Ts and Cs was achieved by changing companies.

I weep for the future of of this industry but I would graciously submit that the chances of clawing things back in 2 to 3 years time are nil. In those years there are going to be thousands of pilots out of work who will give their right arms to get a job in the RHS of an Airbus or Boeing. And how many outfits do you know that have achieved any REAL gains in the last 20 years?

People like MOL and WW, to name just 2, know this and they’ll exploit it to the full. I don’t like BALPA for what they did (or more to the point what they didn’t do) when I was part of an outfit that needed their help many years ago, so I can’t see them doing anything more than spouting a load of hot air and then quietly moving off in another direction.

[PilotLZ]

sonicbum

Evolution of society only goes one way. Once the world opens up (and it's already starting to, at least at a regional level), people will start travelling again. Some will definitely be back travelling earlier than others due to health or financial worries, but I absolutely can't see staycations and not going any further than a half-day driving distance from home becoming the "new normal". Very few will subscribe to that, if anyone. Hence the need to keep the technical, human and organisational resources required for wide-scale travel ready for when it's up and running again.

[Dannyboy39]

The LTN aviation community has been decimated massively in the last few months, but also in the last couple of years. For a town that is unusual that it has a higher number of better paid jobs than what you'd perceive, it has a far bigger impact than others.

(All numbers global)
8000 TUI jobs - will Wigmore House survive with the owner looking to convert to homes?
4500 EZY jobs - will they continue with their new HQ?
MAL / MAEL gone completely in 2017-2019 and no replacement
Gulfstream moving to FAB
New WZZ UK AOC, but many crews based overseas?

The terminal expansion has helped somewhat, but apart from temporary construction jobs, these are few and far better bar the minimum wage paying occupations. It's a sorry sight.

[sonicbum]

PilotLZ

Not completely sure about that. Evolution also means adapting to changes and hence changing habits and behaviors in order to survive the new scenarios. People will resume traveling in big numbers once they will be satisfied that it is perfectly safe to do so from an healthcare point of view. As for business travel, smart working has proven to be very effective in those past 3 months so I don’t really see why somebody would want to seat around a table to discuss important matters when it is feasible by using a webcam and wearing a jacket and your underwear. That is my opinion in the short-medium range. I hope we will get soon rid of that crap of a virus to go back to normal human interactions of course.

[SamYeager]

krismiler

But the question is what sort of break would it be? If it's likely to be one with lots of restrictions then it may end up being a fairly joyless one and who wants to pay for that? Personally I'm inclined to wait for next year when I'll have a better idea of what the new normal is likely to be in terms of hassle and restrictions on what was previously possible.

[Nightmale]

I have no doubt that in time peple will start to fly again in numbers, but it's not going to be any time soon. Yes things will become 'normal' again but it will be a different normal. Many airlines will cease to exist. Many experienced people will find themselves out of a job. Management of the airlines that survive and the new ones that emerge will have a completely differnt idea of how much they need to pay people.

What is an experienced jet captain with no other significant skill set going to do if he's offered 40 or 50k a year rather than the 100k he might have had before, when the alternative is 20k driving a bus? especially when he knows there are another thousand waiting behind him? This could become the normality.

I am old enough to remember being taken on for my first commercial job, and having my type rating and all other requirements, wet drills, fire/smoke etc etc etc paid for. All the while on full pay, allowances etc. Slowly people started accepting less and less and ended up with reduced or no salary, paying for type ratings, paying to fly etc. This became the new normal before Covid-19.

Sad as it is, the reality I fear is for a new base line. This will be an employers market for a significant (years) time to come.

Good luck to all.

[guy_incognito]

I agree completely with the post above unfortunately.

Pilot pay has always been something of an anomaly, considering that the bar for entry into the profession is extremely low (no qualifications required) and entry level job opportunities are always vastly oversubscribed.

This is the opportunity airline management has been waiting for to ‘correct’ pilot salaries.

[Fanatic]

My 2p worth.
I remember 9/11, I remember it well. Flying stopped and everyone was terrified. Video conferencing was the new norm and getting on an aeroplane for leisure was too risky. Demand dried up. Then companies noticed that sales were slow and face to face contact was quite important to do business. Video conferencing faded and we returned to business travel like before and more. Leisure? Too scary unless it's £9.99 a seat then suddenly safety concerns fade and we slowly discover that it isn't that dangerous, partly because of new security measures and partly because the risk is lower than we first think. We returned to leisure travel like before and more.
So when we slowly get back in the air and it looks safe, partly because we have taken precautions and partly because the risk is probably lower than we first think then we'll forget the scare stories and get out there. It might take a month or so of £9.99 tickets but we'll get out there.

I reckon it's not an if but a when.

As for our employment terms, they're pretty s**te already. If they offer £50K to captain 250 tonnes of 550mph craft without a lay-by or traffic light in sight then I'd go and drive a train for £67k. Or ask my 911 driving IFA how difficult his exams are. just sayin'

[PilotLZ]

Business travel cannot be eradicated by technology. There's still no technology to replace face-to-face contact for some of the most important negotiations. It's been a long while since routine work has been brought online and nobody travels to the other end of the world just to put their signature on a piece of paper. Fax and telex were widely available a good 20 years ago, now there are far more advanced versions of them for sending routine paperwork to and fro. Quick progress meetings to catch up on an already running project can also happen by Zoom. But the most important part of it, those 10% of effort that end up sealing 90% of the big deal, still require personal contact and networking - and they always will. All those important talks are something far beyond discussing an agenda by Zoom. They are what happens over dinner, in the coffee break, in the elevator. You can't form the same bond over videoconferencing.

As for leisure travel, people's memories of bad things tend to be rather short. As long as there is no external threat in the form of a looming health crisis and no restrictions exist for free travel, things will pick up. Some of our colleagues will inevitably get on the wrong side of 65. Others will decide to call it a day for other reasons. Some will perhaps successfully reinvent themselves and not go back into flying even if given the chance later on. So, there will be an end to the dogfight for every single job and for the readiness to accept any T&Cs for the sake of staying in the saddle. Ever since aviation exists, there has always been a rise after the fall - and I have no reason to believe that this time it will be different.

[krismiler]

1982 - World recession.
1991 - Gulf War
2001 - World Trade Centre
2008 - Global Financial Crisis
2020 - COVID - 19

Going by past events we were due for something about this time anyway. Aviation always recovered afterwards even if it took a couple of years. I’m just hoping that the next big downer will be after I’ve retired.

It’s reasonably safe to say that we’re over the worst now, there is definitely light at the end of the tunnel and whilst the road to recovery may be difficult at least we are on it. Until/unless there is a vaccine there will be a different normal, but we will adapt.

[Plastic787]

I fully agree with the rest of the post but just as a point of order I’d edit number 2 to 9/11 attacks personally. I’m not normally a stickler (or very woke!) for these things but just saying World Trade Center when a couple of hundred also died in Washington and Shanksville as a result of AA77 and UA93 is a smidge disrespectful to those victims. :ok:

[Kakaru]

1982 - World recession.
1991 - Gulf War
2001 - World Trade Centre
2008 - Global Financial Crisis
2020 - COVID - 19

Here's my version
1991 - World recession
2001 - World recession
2008 - World recession
2020 - Unrecoverable failure of modern capitalism

[vlieger]

Indeed, this also seems a lot more accurate to me. This is "the big one". Look at the USA, these are not "normal" times but dare I say it revolutionary ones with extreme polarisation.
Sure, some low cost airlines will survive and certainly the ultra low cost ones like Wizz Air may actually take advantage, but that is only because it is a further race to the bottom.

[kpd]

bbc news-

EasyJet hopes to reopen 75% of route network by August
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52892397

[CC_FlyerUK]

So I have heard easyJet are currently in consultation with of all the HQ staff, the area which will most likely affect everyone on here is being massively cut.

The ICC (Ops Centre) is being chopped, so no more crewing assistants, the crewing team will loose 13 crewing officers. Ops will be down 9 people and the same goes for disruption.

To add to this crewing will now have to deal with Training Delivery.

I dread to think what the call time will be like if easyJet do operate them 300 aircraft in the next year.....

[Twitter]

Some EZY flights operating from Gatwick today.
CNN reporter highlighting how quiet the field is otherwise - “considering it has one of the biggest, if not the biggest runway in the world”.
Wow, must have missed that...

[kendrick47247]

Busiest, maybe? It was the busiest single runway in the world, for a time

[Fly747]

Busiest international airport in the world is currently Anchorage.

[Douglas Bahada]

Current cash position £2.4 billion. 22 June 2020. 3 month full grounding to cost £1 billion. 6 month full grounding £2.1 billion.

15% of shares to be "placed" or created to gain £400 to 500 million.

Company will be "rightsized".

Company is " overhedged" for fuel and financial exchanges. Net charge of £164 million first half 2020 and further impact second half 2020.

As easyJet progresses through the consultation process of reducing staff numbers by up to 30% there is a heightened risk of industrial action that may disrupt operations...

We will see what transpires.....

[booze]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/11990915/easyjet-close-hubs-stansted-southend-newcastle/

Doesn't look good, I'm afraid although not sure about The Sun...

[Banana Joe]

Are those 727 unlucky pilots picked by gender? :E​​​​​​

Jokes aside, terrible news.

[Dannyboy39]

How about the other 4,273 other guys?

[CC_FlyerUK]

Yep, all the Head Office staff and Cabin Crew. I think it is a shame people seem to focus on "Pilots" when if it was not for the others it would be empty planes flying about - with no organisation!

[Banana Joe]

Does the Amy Johnson program's political correctness and positive discrimination crap apply to other positions within the company?

​​​​​​Otherwise you didn't get the joke.

[GKOC41]

BALPA say its an over reaction and Easyjet won't find an abundance of crews waiting to come back in a couple of years time when the recovery takes place.
I hope he's right, but somehow I doubt it

[no sponsor]

The reality is that UK employment law makes it much much cheaper and easier for a company to make redundancies in the UK than elsewhere in Europe.

[Douglas Bahada]

"UK AOC. I can see bases like Newcastle and Glasgow definitely going. The market in the NE serviced by W rotations from other bases and Edinburgh being a mega base in Scotland.

I then foresee a cost neutral relocation of crew based on EasyLIFO if you are prepared to commute. Problematic for cabin crew who are second earners in families or pilots who cannot relocate"

The above is from a previous post. I must admit i did not think Stanstead or Southend would be affected.

"The rest of the UK network is also being reviewed and easyjet is discussing proposals to reduce the number of crew we have across the UK network". This in my mind means a LIFO plus approach with massive cost neutral relocations on a take it or leave it basis. Be prepared to move to work. This is unfortunate on those who cannot or will not relocate.

I feel for the crew who cannot relocate but to a certain extent some bases have had efficiency issues due to the attitude of a small minority of employees.

Good luck to all.
​​​​​

[Fostex]

BALPA say its an over reaction and Easyjet won't find an abundance of crews waiting to come back in a couple of years time when the recovery takes place.
I hope he's right, but somehow I doubt it

The full quote...

However, Balpa general secretary Brian Stratton said the job cuts were "an excessive over-reaction".

"EasyJet won't find a supply of pilots waiting to come back when the recovery takes place over the next two years."

Sadly he is out of touch with the reality of the situation, or perhaps just trying to be an optimist. There is a long long long line of guys&gals who would jump at the chance to join EZY when the recovery to the aviation sector happens.

[Banana Joe]

And I am happy to admit I would be one of them. It's the best contract in my home country for valid reasons.
​​​​​​
​​​​​​

[Tartiflette Fan]

@CCFlyerUK

"I think it is a shame people seem to focus on "Pilots" when if it was not for the others it would be empty planes flying about - with no organisation! "

What else can anyone do but focus on the information given ? It's not as if details of cabin-crew and others were given and are being ignored.

[Time Traveller]

Presumably the trss loans would be written off

[Three Lions]

So the three bases closing, which base will they now be serviced by. Comms suggest Ezy will still sell flights out of these bases.

Would one be correct in surmising possibly a jet with an 🇦🇹 On the side?

Are the cuts as savage across the whole company or is the U.K. part bearing the brunt?

My thoughts go out to anyone under threat, it’s awful news, been there done that it really isn’t fun.

[macdo]

So the three bases closing, which base will they now be serviced by. Comms suggest Ezy will still sell flights out of these bases.

Would one be correct in surmising possibly a jet with an 🇦🇹 On the side?

Are the cuts as savage across the whole company or is the U.K. part bearing the brunt?

My thoughts go out to anyone under threat, it’s awful news, been there done that it really isn’t fun.
Having seen the split by base and role, its pretty bad everywhere in the UK.

[Fyldeflyer]

I have just seen in the press with utter dismay at what easyjet are proposing and frankly I don’t know what easyjet management are doing, but it appears to be/have been very little. They have furloughed the majority of their staff (pilots, cabin crew, engineers and office staff) and then sat on their backsides and done what can only be described as absolutely nothing. How can it be that charter brokers are going to operators to put on services between Liverpool and Palma and also Liverpool and Faro, starting from mid July for the next 10 weeks based on the fact customers are saying there is not enough supply! These are prime routes for easyjet and they are not flying, what on earth are they doing! Not having a plan to get pilots off furlough, through the sim and back in the air was clearly not at the forefront of their minds. easyjet management decided to take the £600m from the government, furlough staff taking even more cash from the tax payer and then sit on their back sides and not even thought of a plan to get the airline back in the air again beggars belief. This is the craziest thing I have ever heard of. Not satisfied with taking all this tax payers money they are now going to burden us with even more debt by putting over 700 U.K. based pilots on plus cabin crew on benefits. Easyjet management right up to the CEO, you are a joke!

[Denti]

Are the cuts as savage across the whole company or is the U.K. part bearing the brunt?

Just heard from a friend in there that in germany about half of the crews will have to go. No idea about the other continent countries/bases.

[Time Traveller]

Surprising how hard the Gatwick base will be hit, considering that BA and Norwegian uprooted from there.

[PilotLZ]

And what about Italy? Long-term furloughs were on the cards as early as March in MXP.

[Dannyboy39]

@CCFlyerUK

"I think it is a shame people seem to focus on "Pilots" when if it was not for the others it would be empty planes flying about - with no organisation! "

What else can anyone do but focus on the information given ? It's not as if details of cabin-crew and others were given and are being ignored.
1300 cabin crew. So presumably 3000 other engineers and HQ / ground staff. Huge numbers, many of which haven't got the strength of a union like BALPA behind them.

[TerryCherry]

So 727 jobs. How many pilots uk based? 1400?

So 50pc of uk easy pilots going?

Does anyone have a breakdown by base and role? is lifo?

Someone made the point about the loans above. Will they still be payable?

[macdo]

Yep, all the Head Office staff and Cabin Crew. I think it is a shame people seem to focus on "Pilots" when if it was not for the others it would be empty planes flying about - with no organisation!
The clue might be in the website name?
It doesn't mean we don;'t feel for our colleagues, but there are targeted forums for them to vent their spleen.

[sonicguy]

what about Easyjet Switzerland then?

[Maxfli]

................many of which haven't got the strength of a union like BALPA behind them.

Good luck with that...............

[Kirks gusset]

The proposals for Gatwick appears to be about 25% of the pilot force but much lower numbers for cabin, around 16%. Years ago the ticket staff were replaced with "machines" so there's no mileage in ground staff reductions, looks like the high cost work units are in the gunsights..
Gatwick airport forecast it will take up to 4 years to recover to pre-covid levels and it looks like a case of self fulfilling prophecies, are we talking our way into this mess!

[The Flying Cokeman]

And I am happy to admit I would be one of them. It's the best contract in my home country for valid reasons.
​​​​​​
​​​​​​

I think you can forget all about joining that kind of contract in the near future.

[Douglas Bahada]

Having pondered the proposed changes l now think LIFO will not apply as they are proposing reductions at all UK bases. So much for loyalty. Orange spirit my arse.

[Douglas Bahada]

As feared.

"​​We will look at redeployment as part of the consultation. However given the overall headcount proposals across our business and the lack of suitable vacancies we want to be open by saying we realise it'll be unlikely that we will be able to mitigate our proposals through redeployment"

No such thing as loyalty in the modern workplace. Probably get basic redundancy payment as well.

[macdo]

Having pondered the proposed changes l now think LIFO will not apply as they are proposing reductions at all UK bases. So much for loyalty. Orange spirit my arse.
Way back in the mists of time, the American boss of the large UK airline I worked for, decided that he would reduce the pilot/cc workforce due to one of the airlines regular financial hiccups. His proposal was to close 4 regional bases and get rid of the staff based there. He was somewhat put out and puzzled when the Union, having been largely asleep on the job, pointed out that we were a Seniority based airline and he couldn't do that. All of a sudden 3 of the 4 base closures were cancelled and most of the jobs saved, albeit with quite a few peeps taking part time to mitigate. When the brown stuff hits the fan, seniority and union are all that stands between you and the dole queue.

[101917]

Those of you that believe LIFO should be used as the sole method of selection for compulsory redundancy need to understand that the law has changed. The change makes all previous contracts/agreements that make LIFO the sole method of selection obsolete.

Companies and Unions can agree to whatever they like. However, it should be within the law. When the law changes then contracts of employment should also change.

Companies and BALPA should use a matrix that could include LIFO in it.

The Employment Equality (Age) Regulations 2006 and the Equality Act 2010 refers to the change in the procedures.

[Tick Tock Man]

Those of you that believe LIFO should be used as the sole method of selection for compulsory redundancy need to understand that the law has changed. The change makes all previous contracts/agreements that make LIFO the sole method of selection obsolete.

This is certainly true but what else is there to go on? We are generally unknown to management and HR outside of our immediate base captain and line trainers. Will they have a say in the final reckoning? Training reports are rather generic these days with little to no text on them (unless there's a secret box we don't get to see saying what the trainer *really* thought) and I believe data accrued on Flap 3 landing, discretionary fuel etc. is anonymised, if that sort of thing could even be used as criteria.

Sickness? Number of fatigue reports filed? Number of times we've been in the shower when Crewing calls? I'm struggling to think of anything particularly tangible.

Good luck everyone.

[TerryCherry]

I was about to say the same. How can they select? Lifo may not be ok but experience in hours is surely ok and that amounts to the same. This would mean that a FO that already had 1000 hours when they entered easyjet may keep a job even though they are the last to join? But this amounts pretty much to LIFO anyway.

There are always 'favourites' that will escape the cull. Some of easyjet's more recent recruits are more rough round the edges and would prob never have even been selected 10 years ago and definitely wouldn't have mid 2000s. Then there are those who have better communication skills, better educational background, more upper middle class.

I cannot see easy getting rid of the latter in favour of the former. They will surely keep more female pilots as well. Those who can least afford it and with the biggest debts will probably be thrown to the wolves regardless.

[booze]

Over at WZZ so called "performance" was used to decide over 265 pilots who were let go. Now let me tell you that it was BS. It was down to individual base captains and mid managers to decide and by the way who were more than happy to run their purge based on personal agenda. Again, there are no unions whatsoever to speak of at WZZ. Wish you guys and gals the best. It's tough. I know.

[Tick Tock Man]

The only problem with using LIFO as the sole method, as far as I can make out, is that it can inadvertently lead to age discrimination and it is that, not LIFO itself, which is unlawful. If it can be demonstrated that LIFO is not discriminatory in age, i.e. there is a healthy mix of ages amongst those with the least service, then I can't see any reason in law why that should not be the primary or even only criterion. I suppose that's unlikely given the traditional progression of cadetship to internal command but it's a thought. Somebody else here may be able to clarify that.

[midnight cruiser]

I They will surely keep more female pilots as well. . That would of course be completely illegal, but this is easyjet we're taking about, so you're probably right. Even in the general workforce, in the 2008-9 recession, "pale males" were disproportionately laid off, with HR managers presumably thinking to themselves "well at least these guys can't claim discrimination, so we'll target them"!

That said, in airlines generally, LIFO may tend to affect female pilots more severely, as their proportion has increased in recent years, so they are more junior

[NessunoAmo]

I'm based in Italy and on some sectors the PAX numbers are almost non existent. Is it the same elsewhere? Everyone I know is really scared about their job. My Capitano the other day was really low. How long can this go on?

[kontrolor]

the moment when aviation became business just like any other, and boys with finacial toys were brought in, you were already on death sentence... Money will just go elsewhere, they don't give **** for your loyality, for the fact, that aviation is very special operation and that it takes a lot of expertise of vast array of profiles.... I wish you all all the best....

[Vokes55]

I'm surprised that nothing has been made of the obvious safety issue here. Aside from the lack of recency with nobody having flown for four months, flying on aircraft that haven't flown for four months, with load sheets produced by people who haven't produced load sheets for four months, new COVID-related procedures (etc etc), easyJet have now decided that they want every single staff member onboard flights from SEN, STN and NCL in the next two months to have their livelihoods torn up at the end of the Summer. Did nobody consider the implications to flight safety of a base lottery policy on redundancy selection?

[TerryCherry]

What exactly are you implying?

[NoelEvans]

the moment when aviation became business just like any other,....Do you mean in the 1920s when it really started? When has commercial aviation not been a business?

Don't 'shoot the messenger' with any of these extreme problems, everyone is just trying to dig themselves out of holes that they have fallen into through no fault of their own. (The real problem is the source of all of this trouble.)

Vokes55 has made a very, very, very good general point. Pilots, and every other sector in the industry, have had to face livelihoods being torn up in the past (I've had a base and a fleet shut on me, with the announcement a week before Christmas just to 'bite' that bit harder), but never, ever in such extreme circumstances, with all those additional factors, as

[jmmoric]

Tick Tock Man

Another problem with the "last in, first out", is that some of the older staff can be very reluctant vote for new temporary agreements, only because they know they won't get laid off... So where a time/salery reduction would've kept everyone working, albeit less with equally less payment, they'd rather see colleagues get fired.
Often you'd end up hearing arguments where the employee has completely forgotten that he is actually that... an employee.... who is working because the employer needs him.
Sure, technically the companies can just fire the whole bunch, and then re-hire the ones they want again.

Now I'm not against rights for employees etc, but the situation is a bit special, and the only way to help getting through it, would be to move in close with management and figure out what to do (if we want to keep everyone working).

[Douglas Bahada]

Close enough to bury the knife in to the hilt

[toratoratora]

Amen, brother!

[lear999wa]

jmmoric

I would be very reluctant to accept any concessionary contract. Us pilots did this post 9-11, and as a result it took these pilots 10-15 years to regain their previous wages. Further concessionary contracts DON'T equate to contractual job retention. Ie you could take the paycut only to be made redundant a few months later, only now having your new redundancie pay calculated on your newly reduced pay. In my opinion easyjet is going to crew subject to short/medium term crewing requirements. And PB has been hired to ensure that happens at a minimum cost to the company.

[a1anx]

".......jmmoric

I would be very reluctant to accept any concessionary contract......"

A very good point and part of the management 'dirty tricks' toolkit. There is virtually no answer to this unless you could get 100% of pilots to threaten 100% strike action unless the management listens. Management know that this is vanishingly unlikely which is why they get away with the stuff that they do.

[Denti]

It is an often used playbook that works pretty much every time: Threaten mass redundancies and generate massive fears. That way pilots always, and i mean always, start to offer concessions without anybody asking for it. And of course the management then takes those ideas and runs with it lowering T&Cs substantially. Usually it takes at least 5 to 10 years to crawl out of that again, and by that time the next crisis looms.

[A321drvr]

I see more and more EZY pilots looking for work on both LinkedIn and in various Facebook groups. Sad news. I hoped that at least they will keep their pilots especially after (successful?) negotiations with unions. Or was it only the case in the UK?

[dirk85]

The only compulsory redundancies so far has been in Germany.

[A321drvr]

I do hope that with at least according to seniority/date of joining and a letter of intent that they'll be the first ones to be recalled before hiring external pilots in the future.

[dirk85]

The law in germany is slightly more complex than that.

A matrix was built where points were given based on your age (1 per year), years of service (1,5 per year of seniority), 7 points per dependant child, 5 points if with a registered partner, plus points for disability.

All of this per rank. Meaning that many guys with 1/2 years in the company, for example coming from Air Berlin, were saved, and other with 10 years in the company, but younger in age and less kids, were kicked out.

[A321drvr]

Thanks dirk85,

This seems to be the other extreme case on the scale with wizz on the far side (redundancies based on who is liked/disliked by their relevant managers). Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for the ex-AB guys in this case however this is not the way to treat pilots who dedicated years of their lives in service to ezy. Having a child, or two in that matter is a personal choice, so as being married, etc. I don't see it fair that this personal choice being rewarded by letting to keep your job. I am absolutely pro-seniority, based on the date of joining. None of the European companies seems to get it right, unlike their US counterparts.

[dirk85]

In principle I don’t disagree with you, what happened in Berlin is very unfair towards long serving easyJet pilots.

There was a little manouvring space in terms of points given for each criteria, but not much, and in germany using seniority only would have been illegal.

The company went for the option more likely to hold up in case of court cases.

[Joe le Taxi]

. Having a child, or two in that matter is a personal choice, so as being married, etc. That's more of a philosophical argument; To coin a cliché, children are our future, and marriage is a common foundation for a family. Like it or not, many Western, and particularly European countries make provision for the welfare of children, in various ways such as reduced taxation, free schooling (paid by all taxpayers), and family support and incentives - And unemployment of the main earner is deleterious to a child's wellbeing. It is also far more difficult for a family to relocate to find a new job, or if a new job is away from home, it breaks up the family for long periods, and that tends to have negative effects on children.

The advantage given to age is slightly surprising given the ageism rules in the ECHR.

[PilotLZ]

In many national legislations, there's no such thing as seniority. Length of service could be factored in one way or another when making the hard decisions, but not in every country and usually not as the sole criterion but as one of many. As no internal policy of the company can override the national legislation of wherever the contract was signed, it leaves the decision makers with little choice.

Although I am very sorry for everyone affected, this sort of matrix was still more of a fair game, as compared to what the magenta brigade did a bit further eastbound (again, making use of loopholes in national legislations which allow for redundancy criteria to be as simple as "I don't like you"). At least it was somewhat more of a transparent process in Germany, with the law overriding any hard feelings middle management might have had for any locally-based employee.

[A321drvr]

I don't think it's a fair game for someone to be out of a job where previously him/her was in the highest tax bracket due to being single with no kids.

[Denti]

In germany there is a huge focus on protecting families and especially children. Not surprising considering germany has one of the lowest birth rates worldwide, although it has recovered quite a bit in recent years. And of course, the usual pilot lifestyle of having more than one marriages could have helped here, a divorced, but still dependent partner has to be considered same as the currently married partner (or legal partnership). From what i hear, there were quite a few short notice marriages that in some case actually saved an income.

Although i know how it feels being in the highest tax bracket, try having a kid, those are very expensive, and without them a country will experience huge problems as japan, italy and germany are currently learning. And of course, those that are unattached are deemed more mobile and able to find work elsewhere without having to move a whole family.

Is there a transparent process for re-hiring? Or can middle management work out its grudges there? Or any right to be considered before any outside applicant at all? Those things are, after all, not required by law in germany and have to be negotiated between unions and management.

[A321drvr]

Valid questions. Hopefully it'll work out for those affected. Let's hope that the orange lot won't try and learn/take anything from the magenta outfit a few hundred kms east...

[plikee]

7 points per dependant child



Ridiculous. Even 3 points would be pushy. How much did women got, 30 points? :ugh:
Having a kid might come down to personal choice (except that one layover), not having one isn't always down to own choice.

[Plastic787]

Precisely. Particularly unfair to those suffering fertility problems. Unjustifiable IMHO.

[Joe le Taxi]

Child allowances/leave/job protections etc are not a perk - they are a measure to try and partially offset the costs and difficulties associated with working and keeping a family together.

[Denti]

plikee

Gender doesn’t count. However, 7 points per kid is actually pushing it as it is quite a low number for germany. Usually kids would bring around 10 points. But as always, the system will be challenged and negotiated in front of an employment court, as one absolutely has to sue his (former) employer for unfair dismissal in germany, it’s absolutely normal and usually seen as a requires step. At least it will result in a higher severance payout, in the best case the company has to continue employment.

By the way, adopted kids count the same.

[plikee]

Denti

The reference to the gender was a sarcastic joke as EZY launched a pilot recruitment campaign target only at women not that far ago. I understand where the points for kids come from but still extremely unfair unless it takes personal circumstances into consideration - as Plastic787 said, couples with fertility issues are extremely penalised, they have probably just spent thousands of €€€ to have at least one shot of having a kid. So they don't have a kid, they have probably spent a bigger amount of their salaries towards a kid that they don't have yet (and might never have) and still get unemployed.

Fair & protecting families, eh?

[Denti]

Yes, it is protecting existing families. As the law is applicable for concrete situations that have to be solved right now, and not in a coulda woulda probably at some point future. And of course, fertility treatment is free in most german health insurances (at least half of the cost has to be covered by law anyway), so there is no significant cost attached to that procedure. The law simply requires to take into account what exists right now, and yes, its aim is to protect kids and families, those that do exist. There is no question about the reason behind the kids being there or not, that is indeed a personal matter, just if they are there, they are to be protected. It is not new by any means, that law has existed for many decades, just the points in approved point systems have changed over times to reflect the increasingly lower number of kids, which makes them more important and therefore valuable. As each european working law is very much different, there are always more thinks to take into account before moving to a country and working there than just the contract itself.

[Enigma01]

In my country it is actually the same bulls..t. If you have kids, you get all kind of benefits( (not only tax way) also for energy bills, buying properties etc, while ppl like me, singles, have to pay the highest taxes. But what do we get in return? Zip, zero, nada!!! I have to make the ends meet myself If i loose my job, i can not pay the bills nor food on the table. I don't have a partner who is working as well and backing me up. I really would like to call it discrimination and getting more and more irritated about it.

In our system singles are always considered as ppl who don't want to have responsibilities, want to be free, want to party etc etc. In fact our society is more and more shifting to (happy) singles. People who got divorced, people whose partner got passed away, people who really want to find a partner but are simply unlucky , and yes, ppl who prefer to be alone. So it is not that all singles choose to be single. I see a lot in my country that this group of people are simply getting ignored, they are 'non-existing', except if it goes about paying.

Our tax system is not up to date anymore, it is based on the 60's where starting a family is the norm. Well times are changed and i don't see the justification anymore why families should get everything. Like said before, having kids is a choice, but i don't see a reason why i have to pay for that. Yes i do know they will work for your and my pension in the end but we, as a society, are too much depending on our authorities to take care of everything. The current tax system is sometimes tweeked a bit here, a bit there, a bit here. Wrong. It should be reformed and adapted to the current society, meaning that: you want kids, fine you can but you pay yourself for that.

I am a big defender of a flat tax rate system. You wanna work your ass of, good, you get rewarded. You dont want to work more but rather enjoy life? No problem, you won't get punished and pay the same tax percentage. It is a system that allow the working class to choose rather than 'having to'. Taxes will have to be paid for sure but will be spend to the more needy people: sickness, people with a low wage, ppl who got unfit because of an accident, ppl who lost their job etc. The higher your income, the less benefits you get (no matter what your status is!!!!) but because you pay much lower taxes, you can provide yourself more.

Sorry i had to react and defend the 'forgotten' group.

[Whitemonk Returns]

Anyone who dosent have kids should be able to survive easily off of whatever savings they had or reskill until the situation improves, they have the freedom to move anywhere they need to provide a new income. The difference is a few less luxuries in your life compared to someone who NEEDS to provide food and shelter for other people, and society rightly looks after them first. Nobody should have kids if they don't want the responsibility, and the kind of people who are crying above definitely shouldn't have them.

[sekmeth]

My wife and I would like to have kids, but as long as I still have 85000 euro study debt, and my wife about half that (she is an oncologist) we decided to wait until we both are debt free.
Its comforting reading from you that we are easily able to live from our savings (what savings). And reskill (again, we don’t have the money)
And we need to separate if I take a job elsewhere because she had to buy her way in in the hospital (dutch system is messed up).
dont get me wrong, I am actually in favor of the German system! But your look at things is just wrong.

[TerryCherry]

I think its inevitable that 500 plus easyjet pilots will be made redundant by this June. There will be no recovery of significance this year it just won't happen. Once the govt stop furlough its game over. Lots of bad news RNS will be dropped in March April time how things were worse than expected.

[Douglas Bahada]

Well. Some thoughts.

UK AOC. Cut to the bone with 3/4 of workforce on various part time contracts.
Germany. CR already affecting the workforce there.
Italy. Base closures. Possibly more redundancy to come but not much.
France. Strong Unions but foresee base closures (like UK) but how many redundacies who knows.

We in the UK have been geared for FTE of bare minimum numbers. But who knows when you have a false postive pandemic and a testing regime which requires those with no symptoms to be tested. Bonkers. If this carries on there will be nothing flying. No tourism industry in Portugal,Spain and Greece and Italy. The end of EU as the rich North throw the poor south to the dogs and they do individual deals with UK to save their economies. Or who the **** knows?

[733driver]

​​​​​​
Remind me, why are the hospitals full and why do some countries have extreme excess mortality if all this is is a false positive pandemic?

Also, with regards to testing: Ever heard of pre-symptomatic spread? It's a real thing. Proven and undisputed amongst the experts. Maybe better stick to posting about things you actually know something about.

[aviationvictim]

Apart from that there’s no planed base-closures in Italy but a large reduction of the fleet in the two smaller bases. France are negotiating a 2 year deal with no reductions but a government supported part-time solution. So whatever thoughts on the subject you might have Douglas, they are not correct..

[Gordomac]

Brave post Douglas & I too, look around and see a great deal of "bonkers" readily swallowed by the gullible. I was going to leap in with an exhortation to ready yourself for vitreolic attack from the most obvious quarters but, there they were, one after another. For the time being, you, I and many out there still have freedom of expression of views. To the delight of many posters, I fear for curtailment.

[733driver]

No, feel free to express your views but be prepared to be called out when spouting nonsense. That's not to say we should accept everything we are told at face value but many conspiracy theories are just that and toxic as well as dangerous for our society.

Mods: I know this is not exactly on topic but when fake facts are posted it's important to be allowed to counter them.

[giord]

aviationvictim

9 airplanes out in Italy in 2021, that is roughly 50 FD crew. There is no way -unfortunately- that they will manage to keep everybody.

[dirk85]

State support in italy most likely to be extended till April 2022, and hopefully by that time those numbers will come down significantly

[giord]

Hope they will, but there will be some redundancies for sure, unless easy decides to reboost the aircrafts numbers in Italy for 2022 and that is highly unlikely.

[dirk85]

If you say so.

They said the same about the UK, and look what happened there

[aviationvictim]

aviationvictim

9 airplanes out in Italy in 2021, that is roughly 50 FD crew. There is no way -unfortunately- that they will manage to keep everybody.

Never said there would be no redundancies. That is yet to be negotiated. What I did say was there’s no planned base-closures neither in Italy or France. Please read the post before you comment.

[giord]

Never said there would be no redundancies. That is yet to be negotiated. What I did say was there’s no planned base-closures neither in Italy or France. Please read the post before you comment.

Not trying to put words in your mouth, that was my personal comment related to the fleet reduction.

[giord]

If you say so.

They said the same about the UK, and look what happened there

Fingers crossed !

[TheFiddler]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1476x960/screenshot_2020_12_30_at_22_27_32_b81a58e8a09bd08ee669d94b2b 5fa8e6c7698bf0.png

[aviationvictim]

Not trying to put words in your mouth, that was my personal comment related to the fleet reduction.

fair enough. I think we can safely say we all hope for other solutions than redundancies in Italy however difficult that might look at the moment. Strong unions with a strong social system will help the process. Tough times indeed.