EASA COVID-19 Aviation Health Safety Protocol

[BEagle]

EASA has now published its COVID-19 Aviation Health Safety Protocol https://www.easa.europa.eu/sites/default/files/dfu/EASA-ECDC_COVID-19_Operational%20guidelines%20for%20management%20of%20passen gers_final.pdf

However, as I told them, airlines have to consider supply and demand - and I really cannot see many passengers wishing to fly whilst such measures are in place. Travelling was awful enough at many airports before COVID-19, but now it'll be almost intolerable for many.

As for the daftness of 14 day UK quarantine,,,,,,

[radiosutch]

The 14 day quarantine can work IF it is vigorously enforced. I notice Guernsey in the Channel Islands has had no new cases for nearly 3 weeks and they enforce a strict 14 day quarantine. Easier there, but it shows it can work if properly applied. I doubt it will be enforced with the same standards here in the UK. Nice try though.

[judge11]

'In the context of these measures, an increase in cases of unruly or disruptive passengers should be expected, either prior to departure or in-flight. This may be due to passengers not wishing to sit next to each other or accusing each other of not following the rules. There is a strong potential for conflict if it is not managed properly. In the worst-case,panic could become quite a serious threat to flight safety –for example if there are significant displacements within the cabin. To address this, operators are invited to consider the raised likelihood of these factors within their procedures and training.'

Oh, what a joyous prospect the already dire airport and awful flying experience is going to become especially given the prospect of the above - and that's only the good news as per page 4 of the document. What horrors lurk in the rest of the document?

[Mr Good Cat]

'In the context of these measures, an increase in cases of unruly or disruptive passengers should be expected, either prior to departure or in-flight. This may be due to passengers not wishing to sit next to each other or accusing each other of not following the rules. There is a strong potential for conflict if it is not managed properly. In the worst-case,panic could become quite a serious threat to flight safety –for example if there are significant displacements within the cabin. To address this, operators are invited to consider the raised likelihood of these factors within their procedures and training.'

Oh, what a joyous prospect the already dire airport and awful flying experience is going to become especially given the prospect of the above - and that's only the good news as per page 4 of the document. What horrors lurk in the rest of the document?

Well, for start the airport should ensure that Bars, Pubs and sales of duty free alcohol are stopped until the crisis is over. I almost certain that won't happen though.

[ozbiggles]

Yep, how can a 14 day quarantine possibly work....Meantime in Aus and Nz.

[SamYeager]

Yep, how can a 14 day quarantine possibly work....Meantime in Aus and Nz.
I think the issue is not so much whether a 14 day quarantine can work but why implement it at some point in the future rather than at the start of the lockdown?

[ozbiggles]

I agree there, the horse has bolted, grown old and been put down now.

[Bob Viking]

I made a long haul flight two days ago. I am now in a country that requires me to self quarantine for 14 days.

If only there was a way to keep the empty, stress free airports and empty flights with rows of spare seats without the damage to businesses and livelihoods that has already happened and of course will happen. It made travel much less stressful.

On a more serious note, everyone in the industry has my utmost sympathy and I hope you can get through this with your sanity and finances intact.

Sadly I think we all know it is going to be some time before air travel gets back to ‘normal’.

BV

[Whitemonk Returns]

What are you all crying about?! If you hate flying so much why are you posting on a pilots website? This is positive news, procedures are being put in place to get us all back flying. Great stuff, let's hope its a roaring success. And as for the doom mongers constantly saying people won't fly under these restrictions just take a look at the photos of beaches around the country this week, people would go on holiday tomorrow if you let them. So how about you lot stay at home and let the rest of us get on with living our lives.

[BEagle]

Rather an intemperate post?

Although airlines and pilots need to get going again, if measures are too draconian they won't have any passengers. Certainly that's the view of the travel industry - they can be as optimistic as they like, but the simple fact is that current indications are that families won't be travelling soon. Neither will the over '50s grey pound travellers.

[PilotLZ]

It's important to have the opportunity available in the first place. Whatever measures are in place, when the government doesn't allow you to go anywhere near the airport - none of them matters. Once the opportunity is there (and it almost is, it's a matter of another couple of weeks for Europe to open up), there will be a couple of groups of people who will lead the recovery. Think essential travellers, students, some business travellers, those visiting friends and relatives, those who already have a vacation booked and aren't too scared to go ahead with it or simply don't want to lose the money... Once they are up and flying, their example will influence their peer groups. Any human is influenced by those who surround them. When your mates John, Steve, Katie and Tracie have already travelled somewhere and are still alive and kicking, you'll inevitably start thinking that it's probably not too scary and perhaps worth trying for yourself too.

As much as the proposed measures add some extra hassle to travel, people will start treating them as the necessary evil and an acceptable tradeoff for being able to go about your business. Just as airport security hasn't deferred anyone from travelling abroad yet, wearing a mask and using hand sanitizer won't either. And, hopefully, all that will not be necessary someday in the next months or years, so you likely won't spend the rest of your life doing it. Hence, let it be and let it bring us a step closer to practising our awesome profession once again.

[Bidule]

What are you all crying about?! If you hate flying so much why are you posting on a pilots website? This is positive news, procedures are being put in place to get us all back flying. Great stuff, let's hope its a roaring success. And as for the doom mongers constantly saying people won't fly under these restrictions just take a look at the photos of beaches around the country this week, people would go on holiday tomorrow if you let them. So how about you lot stay at home and let the rest of us get on with living our lives.
:ok:
+1

Bidule

[SMT Member]

Everyone I've talked to, from peers to elderly parents (own and those of my GF) cannot wait to start travelling again.

My mom is booked on a trip to Tirol in August, a trip which will be taken by bus. She's adamant that if the tour company does not cancel the trip, she'll be onboard that bus. Her travel companion will be her brother, and they're both on the dark side of 70.

I had a chat with both of them, and they are of the opinion "if it happens, it happens and it's equally likely to happen at home as it is abroad".

All my friends are desperate to resume their vacation schedule, which usually involves a trip to the Med in the summer and to Asia or the Alps (or both) in the winter, interspersed with short trips to e.g. London, Paris, Barcelona, Malaga, Mallorca, Rome or New York.

Colleagues, including self, are eager to resume business travel so that we can interact properly with our colleagues, customers and suppliers at facilities around the world. If there's anything this virus has shown, it is that conducting meetings via phones and videolinks are falling desperately short of being equally productive, efficient and producing results of the same quality. The amount of meetings we've had has shot up to an almost intolerable level, but instead of settling or aligning on issues, the most common result is the need to conduct several follow-up meetings to achieve the necessary result.

Therefore I'm of the firm conviction that once procedures are in place and borders open again, passengers will avail themselves of the opportunity en masse.

[esscee]

The problem in the near future will be whether every airport/country obeys the said rules and for how long they keep to them. You only have to look at what happened to the Russian Airbus Sharm el Sheikh incident.

[RadioSaigon]

Neither will the over '50s grey pound travellers...


oh I dunno. I turned 60 a couple weeks ago... I’d be off like a fecking brides nightie, given the opportunity

[Fortissimo]

The UK quarantine is a political response to media pressure to be seen to be doing something, and it is way too late to impose it now because the virus is already out and about in the community. The only impact will be to further handicap recovery.

If the Govt was to take a risk-based approach it could rapidly come to a different conclusion. I don't share Beagle's view of the travelling experience - there are a lot of people who will travel if permitted, despite the temporary inconveniences, but the quarantine rules are likely to tip the balance against it, especially for those unable to work from home (you would need to use an additional 14 days leave).

Look at it this way. Passengers arriving via an airport and airline using the EASA or equivalent protocols will have been temperature-checked, quizzed on their health and potential contacts with infected persons, made to wear a mask throughout their travel, subjected to physical distancing for as much of the journey as possible (including boarding and deplaning), access to hand gels and disinfectant wipes, aircraft disinfected every day, health checks on arrival, no-touch procedures for document checks, enhanced cleaning regimes in flight as well as in the terminal, etc. The only real risk is therefore the arrival in country of someone who is asymptomatic, but they are highly unlikely to have infected anyone else on the way. The use of contact cards also facilitates the tracing action that other countries have used to good effect.

By comparison anyone can wander into the tube system in London (where around 1/6 of the population have apparently had the virus) without any checks, even if they are symptomatic, and there is only a recommendation to use a face covering. Physical distancing is well-reported as being honoured more in the breach than the observance. The logical conclusion is that you are at greater risk of catching or spreading the virus using land public transport than you are when flying. 14 day quarantine for people using tubes, trains and buses?

[Douglas Bahada]

Yes I am in total agreement but nothing is making any sense anymore. Apparently if you are under the age of 40 you have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than dying of Covid19.

[jimmievegas]

Rather an intemperate post?Look at his location. He's either a parody of a brexiteer or an actual brexiteer. Neither are likely to have anything relevant to bring to the discussion. Leave the scientific discussion of viral transmission to experts, not to a bunch of aviation people.
On that note, I found it interesting to see that IATA has decided there's no need to keep middle seats empty, despite scientific evidence to the contrary.

[PilotLZ]

On that note, I found it interesting to see that IATA has decided there's no need to keep middle seats empty, despite scientific evidence to the contrary.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x812/thank_god_the_virus_cant_move_sideways_coronavirus_meme_98c1 b38cf9bd84a1543cd4d30754454be4b330e4.jpg

[vikingivesterled]

Yes I am in total agreement but nothing is making any sense anymore. Apparently if you are under the age of 40 you have a greater chance of being struck by lightning than dying of Covid19.

Since around 50 dies each year of lightning strike in the UK and there don't seem to be any UK official death statistics by age in the lower age groups that could be possible. However most of us know the precautions necessary and take them to avoid being struck by lightning. Like don't stand in an open field holding a metal pole while there is a thunderstorm overhead. Are you argumenting that poeple should'nt take similar precautions to avoid getting CoVid19.

There will always be a large amount of people that are not smart enough to survive when something different arrives. They have no experience of that what have worked before no longer works because the world have changed. These are the people the smarter ones send over the top first. Others sit back and wait to see what happens to that lot. A problem is that those that go on as before bring the disease home to them who are carefull. Take the analogy of going for a walk and you meet people that don't care about social distancing. You just know that if they are careless when you meet them they will be just as careless in other aspects of dealing with the spread.
Always choose a route where you are the one that controls the distance. Always choose an airline that has taken more precautions than the absolute minimum that won't cost them much.
Smart travellers will make up their mind about what amount of precautions is necessary and will choose an airline that supplys them. However I'm not saying an airline, even a low fares one, couldn't cater for both. Instead of a class divider curtain they could have a CoVid19 precaution divider curtain. In front you get free middle seats, cleaning of toilets between each customer and cleaning of cabin between each flight. Behind, for a bit less money, you get nightly cleaning and shared armrests.

[PilotLZ]

If you divide an aircraft cabin into Sanitary Class in the front and COVID-19 Class in the back, that will likely boost bookings an awful lot. Just like the deliberate negative publicity which MOL has sought multiple times. As weird as it is, but people's curiosity to try whether something is as bad as it is alleged to be often outweighs many other considerations.

[peter we]

Well, for start the airport should ensure that Bars, Pubs and sales of duty free alcohol are stopped until the crisis is over. I almost certain that won't happen though.

Bars will be shut and Duty Free shops will be closed, under the proposal.

[peter we]

Look at his location. He's either a parody of a brexiteer or an actual brexiteer. Neither are likely to have anything relevant to bring to the discussion. Leave the scientific discussion of viral transmission to experts, not to a bunch of aviation people.
On that note, I found it interesting to see that IATA has decided there's no need to keep middle seats empty, despite scientific evidence to the contrary.

Its a case of, don't bother trying to prevent infection on the aircraft because its impossible and would make flying economically un-viable.

Instead a 14 day quarantine will catch those infected while flying.

but the quarantine rules are likely to tip the balance against it, especially for those unable to work from home (you would need to use an additional 14 days leave).

Thats about 50% of the population who can WFH. These are also generally the best paid and least likely to be losing their job in the near future.

[Whitemonk Returns]

Look at his location. He's either a parody of a brexiteer or an actual brexiteer. Neither are likely to have anything relevant to bring to the discussion. Leave the scientific discussion of viral transmission to experts, not to a bunch of aviation people.
On that note, I found it interesting to see that IATA has decided there's no need to keep middle seats empty, despite scientific evidence to the contrary.

Literally couldn't be more wrong. I think Brexit is the second dumbest thing the British people have done in decades, the first being the current media driven destruction of the economy while seemingly making it up as they go along. Like I said, this is a serious issue, and people at risk should stay home, but the way forward is to put procedures in place, make the best of it and get on with our lives. Unfortunately as most of us have come to realise, the last people who you would ever want in charge of ANYTHING in a crisis, tend to become politicians.

[Cat Techie]

I made a long haul flight two days ago. I am now in a country that requires me to self quarantine for 14 days.

If only there was a way to keep the empty, stress free airports and empty flights with rows of spare seats without the damage to businesses and livelihoods that has already happened and of course will happen. It made travel much less stressful.

On a more serious note, everyone in the industry has my utmost sympathy and I hope you can get through this with your sanity and finances intact.

Sadly I think we all know it is going to be some time before air travel gets back to ‘normal’.

BV
Cheers Bob. When you are in the industry.. you will know the **** that we are facing. The ones that live with ATPLs, AMLs and are CAs. The airframes that fly with more than two people. Nothing personal mate.

[kiwi grey]

Bars will be shut and Duty Free shops will be closed, under the proposal.

I think most airport owners would argue that such measures would make it commercially impossible to operate their airport.
Retail space rental is, I think after car park fees, where they make their money.

[Bob Viking]

It’s guys such as yourself who have been at the forefront of my mind since this rubbish started. I can’t imagine how stressful it must be.

I truly hope it all works out in the long run.

BV

[NoelEvans]

PilotLZ's Post #11 is probably the most sensible one here: We need people back flying and any way of starting that, even though it may be very restrictive at first, has to be good. Yes, there are some who are eager to get back to travel but there are a lot of people who are still very fearful. Something, anything, that gets people back flying again to show others that it is safe has to be a good thing.

I have been circulating detailed information taken from TravelHealthPro, IATA and WHO that shows that "research has shown there is very little risk of any communicable disease being transmitted on board an aircraft" to everyone that I know that has shown any 'health' concerns about travelling by air. We all need to do everything that we can to ensure that people don't follow media garbage (or worse still 'social' media utter garbage) that is detrimental to them wanting to fly. It's like that irrational fear of flying when you point out to them that the journey to and from the airport is more risky than flying, well we need to be pointing out the same with this nasty 'thing'.

We need people back flying again and if a first few cautious steps help to allay fears of the regulators and then the travelling public, that is what is needed.

[SamYeager]

I have been circulating detailed information taken from TravelHealthPro, IATA and WHO that shows that "research has shown there is very little risk of any communicable disease being transmitted on board an aircraft" to everyone that I know that has shown any 'health' concerns about travelling by air. We all need to do everything that we can to ensure that people don't follow media garbage (or worse still 'social' media utter garbage) that is detrimental to them wanting to fly. It's like that irrational fear of flying when you point out to them that the journey to and from the airport is more risky than flying, well we need to be pointing out the same with this nasty 'thing'.


Hmm, you may well be correct about the risk aboard the aircraft but the risk in getting to the airport, if using public transport, waiting to board said aircraft in the airport and leaving the destination airport, if using public transport, may well be somewhat larger.

[NoelEvans]

Sam, You are correct that getting to and from the airport will be a greater risk than flying, but then that has always been the case even in normal times. Don't worry about space in the airport. Have you been to an airport to catch a flight recently? I can assure you that there is no problem with space! And even as flights start to increase there is still a huge amount of space to use until airports become 'crowded'.

[corsaman]

They will have to find alternative sources of income, need to get people back flying.
Absolutely right - the pre-flight drinking frenzy invariably leads to a stampede for the toilets after take-off. It is not uncommon to have 15-20 people queuing at each end of the cabin - something which simply will not be acceptable going forward.

[chrisbl]

Look at his location. He's either a parody of a brexiteer or an actual brexiteer. Neither are likely to have anything relevant to bring to the discussion. Leave the scientific discussion of viral transmission to experts, not to a bunch of aviation people.
On that note, I found it interesting to see that IATA has decided there's no need to keep middle seats empty, despite scientific evidence to the contrary.

As IATA are the trade body for the airlines that comes as no surprise.

As far as experts go IATA and these are miles apart, well 10 feet actually.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZIhhVgWsAIwqWI?format=jpg&name=small
All to do with airborne transmission.

[NoelEvans]

"Those" that you quote seem to be 'miles apart' from not just IATA.

Also WHO, who (excuse the pun!) state:
... there is no evidence that [masks] protect people who are not sick ...

WHO also state:
The quality of aircraft cabin air is carefully controlled. Ventilation provides a total change of air 20-30 times per hour.

So... regarding that 'SMART' summary:
Masks are no protection;
Refreshed air in aircraft cabins is better than many indoor environments.

Let's come back to IATA who state, using evidence from EASA,
... "cabin/cockpit air quality is similar of better than what is observed in normal indoor environments" such as offices, schools and home dwellings.

So maybe "#Stay SMART" isn't really that 'smart' when applied to air travel?

Regarding
All to do with airborne transmission.

Quoting Gov.uk 'Guidance' on COVID-19:
... airborne transmission may be possible in specific circumstances and settings in which procedures or support treatments that generate aerosols are performed.... so, don't cough in a crowded space if you are sick. But if you follow the 'S' (Stay at home when sick) in that '#Stay SMART' guide, that takes care of all the rest.

We need people back flying. We do NOT need them scared off by '#Smart' type comments that, without being looked at in detail, give misguided ideas about air travel.

AIR TRAVEL IS THE SAFEST FORM OF PUBLIC TRANSPORT IN BOTH HEALTH AND PHYSICAL SAFETY TERMS. THAT NEEDS TO BE EMPHASISED TO PEOPLE.

[occasional]

But if you start off by quoting idiots like the WHO, nobody is going to believe you.

[Gargleblaster]

Here's one example of how opening up can be acheived: Iceland is about to completely eradicate the virus, they're at 1 - 3 active cases, testing has been massive, and every case gets tracked down. From June 15 anyone can travel there, no restriction on where you're coming from, nationality or residency. Icelandair is starting 9 weekly flights to at least CPH on that day. On arrival, you need one of the below:

* A certificate from an approved authority that you have antibodies
* Have a test taken upon arrival - with a negative result
* Go into quarantine for 14 days

If the test is positive, you go into quarantine, but I wonder what's going to happen to the people that were seated around you. I also wonder how early after infection a test will show positive. Probably best to bring ample supplies of sudoku and crosswords... Perhaps they should instead enforce a second test, say 3 days after arrival.

[homonculus]

I also wonder how early after infection a test will show positive.

The PCR swab test is 100% negative - ie useless - on day 1, falling to 61% on day 4. You normally become symptomatic (assuming you have symptoms) late on the 4th day or on the 5th day. Still 39% useless on day of symptoms. This assumes a proper swab, taken by someone else, via the nose and into the throat. An oral swab adds an additional 20% false negative

The antibody test done in a lab on blood from the elbow has less than 2% false negative but some people do not produce antibodies. ie it correctly says 'no antibodies' even though you have had the virus. It isnt worth doing until about day 11 but antibodies will persist at least a month and we are now thinking three months

[Gargleblaster]

Thanks homonculus (https://www.pprune.org/members/194099-homonculus) for the informative post !